Obrien2Toon Posted October 14, 2016 Share Posted October 14, 2016 I don't get how he has become such a project. He started for 3 years in a power 5 conference, in a pro offense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drdetroit Posted October 14, 2016 Share Posted October 14, 2016 1 hour ago, Beerfish said: I don't and by all reports his oc is running the show. I do know that what I saw and heard from hackenburg in a few games his last two years, the way he threw at the combine and the way he played in ex games and camp. He's a massive 'we hope lighting will strike' prospect and you simply do not fall in love with and over draft those kind of guys, Let someone else over draft them. Will Hackenburgh suck? Probably . We're looking at a situation where Allen Robinson made his career I'm just sick of people dismissing the guy and he hasn't even played yet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetsfan80 Posted October 14, 2016 Share Posted October 14, 2016 2 hours ago, UnitedWhofans said: To be clear, you are not angry at actually drafting him, but where they drafted him. Because I will admit to that But I will say, that teams draft projects in the 1st round. Goff, Manziel, Tebow. Goff is not a project. just a guy they preferred to sit for at least a few weeks. Manziel and Tebow were just awful picks, both in hindsight AND at the time they were made. You're ignoring the implications of taking a QB that high. When you take a QB in the 1st/2nd, the expectation is you think he'll be a starter. Not just a "project" who might be a solid backup, like the Bryce Petty pick was clearly intended to be. Using that kind of draft capital comes with the expectation that he'll be "your guy", and also significantly reduces the likelihood a franchise will simply go back to the well and draft another QB high the next year. Basically its Hack or bust now for Macc. The clock started ticking for him the moment he made that pick. Both Petty and Hack can't just be backups and allow him to continue to hold one of the 32 GM jobs in this league. That would be ludicrous. They drafted Petty to be a backup, Hack to be a starter. Period. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drdetroit Posted October 14, 2016 Share Posted October 14, 2016 1 hour ago, joewilly12 said: More so than Hack Really? Jeff Fisher doesn't agree Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artemusclyde Posted October 14, 2016 Share Posted October 14, 2016 Both Goff and Hack are 21. Wentz and Prescott are 23. IDK, guys maybe give them two years to be at the same age as these guys before writing themselves off as a bust. I mean hell, look at what Clowney's starting to do now that he's no longer a fresh out of college 21 year old, he's now 23 (same age as Mack when he came into the league) and he's now becoming a really good player. Most people labeled him a bust and laughed at the Texans for drafting him over Kahlil Mack. Give these guys time, hell Wentz and Prescott were riding the bench at these guys age when they came into the NFL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jet Nut Posted October 14, 2016 Share Posted October 14, 2016 Maybe we should show a little more patience than 5 weeks into their careers to label Hackenberg and Goff failures. Might need a little more time to evaluate. Ah, fond memories of fans on JI killing the Jets for taking Sanchez over Freeman. Or laughing at Detroit for taking Stafford. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artemusclyde Posted October 14, 2016 Share Posted October 14, 2016 2 hours ago, drdetroit said: I don't know how Goff got so overrated by scouts and the media. He played in a spread offense where he was never under Center, he has no arm strength and is kind of a goofball. He's like Pennington minus the intelligence and heart He's 21. Wentz is 23. That's part of the reason he got taken over him. When Wentz was 21 he was riding the bench of some no name college. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drdetroit Posted October 14, 2016 Share Posted October 14, 2016 2 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said: Goff is not a project. just a guy they preferred to sit for at least a few weeks. Manziel and Tebow were just awful picks, both in hindsight AND at the time they were made. You're ignoring the implications of taking a QB that high. When you take a QB in the 1st/2nd, the expectation is you think he'll be a starter. Not just a "project" who might be a solid backup, like the Bryce Petty pick was clearly intended to be. Using that kind of draft capital comes with the expectation that he'll be "your guy", and also reduced the likelihood a franchise will simply go back and draft another QB high the next year. Basically its Hack or bust now for Macc. The clock started ticking for him the moment he made that pick. Mac is signing a veteran in the offseason probably Cutler That said this season is over so we might as well see what the other 3 qbs on the roster have. I'd start them in rotation like baseball pitchers seriously Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbatesman Posted October 14, 2016 Share Posted October 14, 2016 3 minutes ago, artemusclyde said: ost people labeled him a bust and laughed at the Texans for drafting him over Kahlil Mack. wait what Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerfish Posted October 14, 2016 Share Posted October 14, 2016 2 minutes ago, drdetroit said: Will Hackenburgh suck? Probably . We're looking at a situation where Allen Robinson made his career I'm just sick of people dismissing the guy and he hasn't even played yet I can't speak for others but I will speak for myself on this one. The Jets front office had to evaluate this guy before know if he can play so I try and do that as well. In addition to me seeing a 2nd round pick we did not make that could help us now and in the future I speculate on what this decision means to our pursuit of qbs in the the coming drafts. For me" -not a great prospect to begin with. From what I saw and what other sources have said. - Over drafted thus we miss out on a 2nd round prospect that could help us that we will have to fill in the coming years. (CB, Oline?) - Might stop us from going QB high next year because we have not given Hack his chance. All of the above is why I'm so down on the pick now. I'd love to look bad on this one and get a surprise at him making big progress and looking good, I am not holding my breath. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larz Posted October 14, 2016 Share Posted October 14, 2016 QB is always over drafted. simple Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
56mehl56 Posted October 15, 2016 Share Posted October 15, 2016 11 hours ago, peebag said: anyone who had seen him play his final two seasons at Penn St. realizes that this was a bad pick up. He's not fixable. Disagree. That Oline at PSU was perhaps one of the worst of all of the Div 1 FBS teams. Remember the sanctions and defections after the Sandusky/Paterno scandal , they robbed that team of talent. Hack was in a no win situation and regressed due to it. I still feel with the proper approach he can be a reclamation project. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artemusclyde Posted October 15, 2016 Share Posted October 15, 2016 15 hours ago, dbatesman said: wait what Talking about the year after where Clowney was injured and Mack was tearing up the league. Lots of people coming out of the wood works to proclaim Clowney as an over hyped bust. Don't be surprised if Goff and/or Hack look really good in two years, when their the same age as Wentz and Dak. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyCarl40 Posted October 23, 2016 Share Posted October 23, 2016 How bad is Goff that they keep sendin Case Keenum out there to throw 4 picks (including one for six) in a very winnable game? Ouch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted October 23, 2016 Share Posted October 23, 2016 On 10/14/2016 at 11:33 AM, PepPep said: Interesting theory. I think Macc is a value kind of guy when it come to the draft. He selects BPA and really gauges the value of the pick when deciding on who to take. I think Macc really liked Hack. Moving up to get Goff would be WAY too expensive for Macc. He probably simply did not believe the value way there considering he would have to give up multiple 1st round picks. Taking Hack towards the end of the 2nd round is a completely different story. If Macc liked him and believed he has potential t develop into a Franchise QB, the bottom half of the 2nd round is really not much of a reach. I'm not sure why so many people automatically assume Hack would have been there in the bottom of the 3rd or 4th rounds. Having said that, I don;t really think Macc was thinking much about how the fan base would react- at all. His job is to do whats best for the Franchise. If there was a QB Macc really liked available in the 2nd round for him who happened to be 'NFL ready' (although you never really know until they play), there's no reason to think he would pass on him for a project QB. Why? Because he would feel pressure from the fans to start him? That's ludicrous. I also don't think anyone really expected Prescott to be as successful as he is right now. He, too, looked like a project QB coming into the draft. To an extent, so did Wentz. Although Wentz has all the tools and physical attributes, many believed he would need time to transition from a small school in college to the NFL. Lynch IS a project and actually did not play well at all in his last outing. I'll finish by saying that I actually really like the Hack pick. I DON'T think it was too early. Maybe if it was at the very beginning of the 2nd round, where a lot of 1st round talent tends to slip, I'd say t may have been early and Macc could have traded up for him later on in the draft. But I believe if you really like a QB (unless you have to mortgage the future) you make sure to get him. There's a lot to like about Hack. His football IQ, his work ethic, his measurables (arm strength, size), his ability to make all the throws, his pocket presence. He needs to work on a lot of things but the potential is def. there, so let's give him some time to show what he can do in the NFL. Drafting Christian Hackenberg in round 2 was implementing BPA strategy? Except for Leonard Williams and maybe Charone Peake, basically every pick he's ever made was a need-based selection rather than BPA. I'm struggling to think of another player he's drafted where we could say, "Well we clearly didn't need a _____ but you simply can't pass up on this value here." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JetBlue Posted October 23, 2016 Share Posted October 23, 2016 On 10/14/2016 at 11:30 AM, FTL Jet Fan said: That's a pretty scary problem to have especially when he was hitting reporters instead of WR's and is still shell shocked from getting sacked continuously for three years. I believe this kid is going to be at least a two year project and hopefully he really can improve by the start of next season. Lets hope he shocks us all, especially if we don't draft a QB high this year. Which dosent look like we will with the Browns, Dolphins, and 49er's most likely going QB with their more likely than not high draft picks. Let's say you are right and Hack is a two year project. But what if at the end of those two years he develops into a true franchise quarterback. Would he have been worth it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted October 23, 2016 Share Posted October 23, 2016 24 minutes ago, CrazyCarl40 said: How bad is Goff that they keep sendin Case Keenum out there to throw 4 picks (including one for six) in a very winnable game? Ouch. Wonder what their reason is but it doesn't mean Goff is bad (yet). If he was still 3rd string (or 4th string like Hackenberg) it would be 100% obvious they think he and the team would get nothing out of putting him onto the field. As the #2 QB, behind Keenum who had been kind of game-managing the team to a 3-3 record (before today), it's less clear. Especially with their schizo defense. He's had 2 terrible games but the rest had been either so-so or better. I think after today there's a good chance we see Goff next week. Don't discount that next week they have a bye and maybe they were just keeping holding out until then so he could hold a clipboard for a little while first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoJoTownsell1 Posted October 23, 2016 Share Posted October 23, 2016 19 minutes ago, CrazyCarl40 said: How bad is Goff that they keep sendin Case Keenum out there to throw 4 picks (including one for six) in a very winnable game? Ouch. The only rationale is that they don't want Goff to start until he is ready to play at a decent level. If you throw him in early and he is awful it could destroy his confidence. Every organization handles their young QBs early. We have thrust Sanchez and Geno into the starting lineups early and they suffered. Now our front office is taking it slow with Petty and Hack. Honestly, for people to bash or praise the picks of Petty and Hack is just idiotic. Until we see them play in a real game (or 2 or 3 or 10) it's all speculation. Hack/Petty could end up being busts or franchise QBs. No one here knows. The Jets don't even know yet. If you watched PSU play yesterday you would see that Hack didn't fit what Franklin wanted in a QB. The second hack left they brought in an OC that runs the spread offense where you need a dual threat QB. Not to mention the fact that PSU was playing with an offensive line devoid of any talent thanks to NCAA penalties. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bd71 Posted October 23, 2016 Share Posted October 23, 2016 When you're team doesn't have a franchise QB, you don't waste a 2nd round draft pick on a developmental QB. I'll never understand why the Jets blew a pick on this guy (Hackenburg) if he wasn't even going to be ready to play this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fusionCA Posted October 23, 2016 Share Posted October 23, 2016 how bad is Hackenburg? you got Kevin Hogan playing and scoring out there this guy needs to be historically bad for not even being able to be dressed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Lonelyhearts Posted October 23, 2016 Share Posted October 23, 2016 3 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said: Drafting Christian Hackenberg in round 2 was implementing BPA strategy? Of course it wasn't. It wasn't any kind of strategy. If a quarterback isn't worth taking at 20 then he's not worth taking at 51. If he's not worth taking at 9 or 13 he's not worth taking at 39. If he's not worth taking at 4 or 29 he's not worth taking wherever we took Clemens. Different dumbsh*t year, same dumbsh*t mistakes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UnitedWhofans Posted October 23, 2016 Author Share Posted October 23, 2016 11 minutes ago, fusionCA said: how bad is Hackenburg? you got Kevin Hogan playing and scoring out there this guy needs to be historically bad for not even being able to be dressed He's thrown 2 INTs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fusionCA Posted October 23, 2016 Share Posted October 23, 2016 2 minutes ago, UnitedWhofans said: He's thrown 2 INTs. that is not the issue , the guy can be in the game. Jets coaches make it out to be Hackenburg is not even good enough to dress Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UnitedWhofans Posted October 23, 2016 Author Share Posted October 23, 2016 Just now, fusionCA said: that is not the issue , the guy can be in the game. Jets coaches make it out to be Hackenburg is not even good enough to dress Only after the Browns lost 4 QBs. He was their 5th starter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fusionCA Posted October 23, 2016 Share Posted October 23, 2016 Just now, UnitedWhofans said: Only after the Browns lost 4 QBs. He was their 5th starter Jets QB's are no better then that ones the Browns lost. that awful guy from USC throw for 300 yard and 2 TD'S last game Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UnitedWhofans Posted October 23, 2016 Author Share Posted October 23, 2016 Just now, fusionCA said: Jets QB's are no better then that ones the Browns lost. that awful guy from USC throw for 300 yard and 2 TD'S last game I would take Fitz over RGIII any day. Kessler was so good that the Browns decided to alternate QBs today. Yes ALTERNATE QBs TODAY Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fusionCA Posted October 23, 2016 Share Posted October 23, 2016 5 minutes ago, UnitedWhofans said: I would take Fitz over RGIII any day. Kessler was so good that the Browns decided to alternate QBs today. Yes ALTERNATE QBs TODAY that's because unlike the Jets if their coach feel the QB is not playing well he will bench him. unlike Bowels who let Fitz play and throw for 342 interceptions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UnitedWhofans Posted October 23, 2016 Author Share Posted October 23, 2016 Just now, fusionCA said: that's because unlike the Jets if their coach feel the QB is not playing well he will bench him. unlike Bowels who let Fitz play and throw for 342 interceptions If you have two QBs playing out of choice, you have no QBs. Here are the people who have thrown passes for the Browns this year over Kevin Hogam Terrelle Pryor RGIII Cody Kessler Josh McCown Charlie Whitehurst. Oh yea, the Browns have clear confidence in Kevin Hogan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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