Why do we keep drafting defensive linemen when we play a 3-4 defense , not a 4-3 defense ?

[OH THE PAIN]

Someone please explain .

[Jetdawgg]

No cohesive long term plan

[Savage69]

10 minutes ago, OH THE PAIN said:

Someone please explain .

Mike Westoff has been asking that question all season..

[PepPep]

Who are you referring to? 

Richardson? He was drafted in 2013 when we only had Wilk. 

Are you talking about L.Williams? Well he was easily the BPA and looks to be one of the best draft picks the Jets have made in years (since Revis). 

Not sure why Jets fans complain about this as none of the guys the Jets took turned out to be busts.

Since 2004 (like 12 years), the Jets have taken 5 D-linemen in the first round. 1 was a bust (Coples), 2 if you could Gholston (who's a LB). Otherwise, they got Wilk, Richardson and L.Williams.

D.Boose was the last D-lineman they took in the second round- in 1998.

[hokiejetfan92]

I was thinking Myles Garret could be one of the best options available for the Jets this draft. He could be the pass rushing OLB we never had.

[ASH1962]

3 minutes ago, PepPep said:

Who are you referring to? 

Richardson? He was drafted in 2013 when we only had Wilk. 

Are you talking about L.Williams? Well he was easily the BPA and looks to be one of the best draft picks the Jets have made in years (since Revis). 

Not sure why Jets fans complain about this as none of the guys the Jets took turned out to be busts.

Since 2004 (like 12 years), the Jets have taken 5 D-linemen in the first round. 1 was a bust (Coples), 2 if you could Gholston (who's a LB). Otherwise, they got Wilk, Richardson and L.Williams.

D.Boose was the last D-lineman they took in the second round- in 1998.

Have you watched this defense this year? They are all busts! Every one of them, except, maybe, Leonard who at least puts forth the effort every week. The rest of them are pure, unadulterated, malignant, hot spooge.

You cannot tell me that the 31st or whatever ranked defense, that has not had a turnover since 2005 seemingly, that can never make a play to win a game, is not a total and complete bust. Look at it this way, what can you get back in trade for Richardson? Nothing. Wilkerson? Nothing. Williams? maybe you would get a 2nd round pick for him if we tried to trade him. If I were running the team, he would be the only one I would consider keeping on that defense, the rest would be gone to the highest bidder regardless.

[68JET11]

For all the hoopla this line gets they are never in the backfield consistently. It's hindsight now, but the only issue I have with Macc was his inability to recognize that Snacks was a better fit for this defense then letting him go. It should have been MO they let go and had SR/Snacks/Leo on the front line. That I think would have been a sick 3/4.

[PepPep]

38 minutes ago, ASH1962 said:

Have you watched this defense this year? They are all busts! Every one of them, except, maybe, Leonard who at least puts forth the effort every week. The rest of them are pure, unadulterated, malignant, hot spooge.

You cannot tell me that the 31st or whatever ranked defense, that has not had a turnover since 2005 seemingly, that can never make a play to win a game, is not a total and complete bust. Look at it this way, what can you get back in trade for Richardson? Nothing. Wilkerson? Nothing. Williams? maybe you would get a 2nd round pick for him if we tried to trade him. If I were running the team, he would be the only one I would consider keeping on that defense, the rest would be gone to the highest bidder regardless.

B******T.

You can't look at the performance of a defense as a whole in ONE season and come to the conclusion that individual players are 'busts'. WTF??? Wilk is NOT a bust. He was considered to be one of the top D-linemen in the league before this season. Richardson is FAR from a 'bust'. L.Williams is a rising star. 

Yes, this season the defense AS A WHOLE has been putrid. And that's not even fair b/c they have been very good at stopping the run. But that does not equate to players being busts. It makes no sense to equate the two.  Thank god you are not running the team b/c you would be cutting guys left and right after a bad game. 

No turnovers since 2005???? How about all the TO's the defense forced, oh, I dunno, LAST YEAR?!! Ugh, I can't even with these kinds of comments.  

My definition of a 'bust' is a player that does not make an impact given the position at which he was drafted. For example. A first round pick should make a bigger impact on the team than a 2nd or 3rd rounder, the idea being that they are the better talent with bigger upside, which is why they are drafted higher. The timing depends on the player. Some players take longer to develop than others but may still make a big impact eventually. It depends. A player drafted late is expected to have less talent and therefore there are lower expectations. If he can start or even contribute on special teams, you can't really call a late round draft pick a bust. Wilk was a late first rounder. He exceeded expectations as he developed int one of the top D-linemen in the league before his broken leg and poor performance this year. L.Williams was a high first rounder. He is still developing but has already shown sign of stardom. Richardson was a high first round pick (13 overall). He immediately showed promise and signs of stardom. He has been a bit slower in putting up the expected production, but I don't think anyone would call him a bust. In fact, most will agree he is a perfect example of a poorly utilized talent.  

[UnitedWhofans]

1 hour ago, OH THE PAIN said:

Someone please explain .

Williams was the best player available. I dont know other DL other than Simon that MAc has drafted 

[Scoop24]

Richardson was need I believe Devito left that year .. 

Leonard Williams was flat out the best player available .. 

so I understand the picks .. just don't understand why where always  quick to draft OLB's the lack athleticism ., we legit have no speed coming off that edge 

[PepPep]

33 minutes ago, 68JET11 said:

For all the hoopla this line gets they are never in the backfield consistently. It's hindsight now, but the only issue I have with Macc was his inability to recognize that Snacks was a better fit for this defense then letting him go. It should have been MO they let go and had SR/Snacks/Leo on the front line. That I think would have been a sick 3/4.

A counter-argument would be that Macc made the right move by not re-signing Snacks b/c he got McLendon, who has played very well for the Jets for less money. Lest we forget that the Jets wanted to re-sign Snacks but he wanted a boat load of money. 

And yes, you are correct, its hindsight. At the time, EVERYBODY wanted Mo back. He is a NJ native, he wanted to stay a Jet, and despite his injury he was coming off one of his best seasons. Compare that to Sheldon- who got in trouble with the law (twice), is still under contract, and did not put up the same numbers Wilk did. I also have no doubt that this is an outlier for Wilk and he will have a bounce back season next year.  

[Jet_Engine1]

The problem is that they are all DTs. Mo is a 3-4 DE, the rest of them....Sheldon, Williams, McClendon, Simon, are ALL DTackles. it's stupidity. And then the run a 3-4 with Sheldon. As a Linebacker (lol)....or a 4-3 and pretend that Wilkerson is Reggie White. 

Its poor roster management combined with sh*t coaching and no true plan.

 

When Williams dropped to them, they should have put Mo AND Sheldon on The trading block for more pieces to build a real defense, not one designed to stop an Erhardt-Perkins Offense from 1992.

[PepPep]

48 minutes ago, hokiejetfan92 said:

I was thinking Myles Garret could be one of the best options available for the Jets this draft. He could be the pass rushing OLB we never had.

I expect him to go #1 overall to the Browns. I expect the Browns to draft a QB with their second 1st round pick (currently 14th overall). 

I think the Jets are better off trading down, adding draft picks. Lots of great CB, RB, LB talent will be available in the 2nd round- those are deep positions in this year's draft.  

[PepPep]

3 minutes ago, Jet_Engine1 said:

The problem is that they are all DTs. Mo is a 3-4 DE, the rest of them....Sheldon, Williams, McClendon, Simon, are ALL DTackles. it's stupidity. And then the run a 3-4 with Sheldon. As a Linebacker (lol)....or a 4-3 and pretend that Wilkerson is Reggie White. 

Its poor roster management combined with sh*t coaching and no true plan.

 

When Williams dropped to them, they should have put Mo AND Sheldon on The trading block for more pieces to build a real defense, not one designed to stop an Erhardt-Perkins Offense from 1992.

To be fair, McLendon and Simon are NTs. Simon is a true NT while McLendon is a DT that plays NT. 

Also Richardson is a DT but he is an athletic DT that probably is not a good fit as 4-3 DE but can play 3-4 DE. You can say the same thing about L.Williams and really, Wilk. All three are versatile DT's that can play 3-4 DE but not really 4-3 DE. So it actually makes sense that the Jets drafted these 'type' of players.

Having said that, yes, its moronic that Sheldon is put at OLB, and the Jets DO have one too many 3-4 DE/DTs. But that should not be a BAD thing. With the right coaching, you SHOULD be able to make it work. You don't immediately put Mo and Sheldon on the trading block b/c you really don;t know what you will get ut of a rookie (regardless of where he was drafted).    

Hindsight is 20/20 and it looks like its time to make a move. But the Jets did the right thing by re-signing their best player in Wilk and biding their time with Richardson. Now they know they have a rising star in L.Williams and Wilk locked up. They can make a decision about Richardson this offseason. But the bottom line is that Jets coaches need to figure out how to use these guys properly- its on them. Too much talent is never a bad thing. And like I said, the Jets will probably trade Richardson this offseason just to clear more cap and get an additional draft pick before his contract is up.   

[rex-n-effect]

45 minutes ago, Jet_Engine1 said:

The problem is that they are all DTs. Mo is a 3-4 DE, the rest of them....Sheldon, Williams, McClendon, Simon, are ALL DTackles. it's stupidity. And then the run a 3-4 with Sheldon. As a Linebacker (lol)....or a 4-3 and pretend that Wilkerson is Reggie White. 

I look at this and wonder: is Bowles this stupid or does he have orders from Woody to play all four players and Sheldon is the odd man out on the DL? 

[Beerfish]

We don't play a 3-4 defense, we play a 'I am great defense guru i will mix and match and play a combo' team.  Thus half our players are either not playing or playing in spots that are not the best for them,.

Our gm has drafted the last two years as if we were a 3-4 team but the coach gets too cute with his i am a brainiac systems.

[Bleedin Green]

The earlier picks made sense at the time, and as for Williams, that was definitely not considered close to a need last year, but the guy is currently the best player on the D, so tough to complain about it.  In hindsight, given the awful years we've seen out of both Wilk and Richardson, it's actually looking like an even smarter decision.

[drdetroit]

Better question: why give Mo $100 million when you already have Leonard Williams and Sheldon Richardson?

[drdetroit]

7 hours ago, 68JET11 said:

For all the hoopla this line gets they are never in the backfield consistently. It's hindsight now, but the only issue I have with Macc was his inability to recognize that Snacks was a better fit for this defense then letting him go. It should have been MO they let go and had SR/Snacks/Leo on the front line. That I think would have been a sick 3/4.

Our DL is totally overrated.  We have no edge rusher and never, ever will.  Watch us take a pass on Tim Williams for a Safety

[Mogglez]

Wilkerson was a brilliant pick.  The last good one Mike T. ever made.

Sheldon is, like, 1 of 4 players from that first round worth his selection.

The guy people wanted over Leonard Williams was Kevin White.  I was happier we went Leo on Draft Night and I'm even happier now.

Also, for the one millionth time, we run a hybrid defense.  Trade Sheldon or Mo (I want Mo gone), draft Myles Garrett to play EDGE DE/OLB, shore up the secondary, and you can run any defense you want.  

[drdetroit]

2 minutes ago, Mogglez said:

Wilkerson was a brilliant pick.  The last good one Mike T. ever made.

Sheldon is, like, 1 of 4 players from that first round worth his selection.

The guy people wanted over Leonard Williams was Kevin White.  I was happier we went Leo on Draft Night and I'm even happier now.

Also, for the one millionth time, we run a hybrid defense.  Trade Sheldon or Mo (I want Mo gone), draft Myles Garrett to play EDGE DE/OLB, shore up the secondary, and you can run any defense you want.  

No one wants Mo and his insane contract.  We're better off having Sheldumb play for his next contract and actually giving us a good season next year

[Mogglez]

3 hours ago, drdetroit said:

No one wants Mo and his insane contract.  We're better off having Sheldumb play for his next contract and actually giving us a good season next year

I think there is at least one team out there that would bite because the contract is easily escapeable after 2017. Look past the sugar coated numbers and you'll see that it was never a "long term" deal.  Say the Jets want to trade back in to the first for another player this year.  Do you really think there isn't a team picking 25-32 (Dallas immediately comes to mind) that wouldn't take him in a deal...fully knowing that if he gets back to form he's had at relatively fair price and can be cut with little risk should he bomb for them?

You might be underestimating the desire some of these teams have to get a proven guy to give them that extra "edge" to put them over.

[August]

We already had Wilkerson and Richardson, Leonard Williams feels like a luxury pick to me. 

[drdetroit]

4 minutes ago, Mogglez said:

I think there is at least one team out there that would bite because the contract is easily escapeable after 2017. Look past the sugar coated numbers and you'll see that it was never a "long term" deal.  Say the Jets want to trade back in to the first for another player this year.  Do you really think there isn't a team picking 25-32 (Dallas immediately comes to mind) that wouldn't take him in a deal...fully knowing that if he gets back to form he's had at relatively fair price and can be cut with little risk should he bomb for them?

You might be underestimating the desire some of these teams have to get a proven guy to give them that extra "edge" to put them over.

Mo has been an absolute dog this year.  Nobody wants him. 

 

I'll be dancing when we cut his fat ass in two years.

[drdetroit]

3 minutes ago, August said:

We already had Wilkerson and Richardson, Leonard Williams feels like a luxury pick to me. 

Williams was the best move Mac has made as GM.  That and getting Marshall for a 5th round pick.

 

Williams should have made Wilkerson expendable but y'know, jets.

[August]

Just now, drdetroit said:

Williams was the best move Mac has made as GM.  That and getting Marshall for a 5th round pick.

 

Williams should have made Wilkerson expendable but y'know, jets.

And he fell in Mac's lap. 

[drdetroit]

11 minutes ago, August said:

And he fell in Mac's lap. 

So?  

[detectivekimble]

12 hours ago, PepPep said:

Who are you referring to? 

Richardson? He was drafted in 2013 when we only had Wilk. 

Are you talking about L.Williams? Well he was easily the BPA and looks to be one of the best draft picks the Jets have made in years (since Revis). 

Not sure why Jets fans complain about this as none of the guys the Jets took turned out to be busts.

Since 2004 (like 12 years), the Jets have taken 5 D-linemen in the first round. 1 was a bust (Coples), 2 if you could Gholston (who's a LB). Otherwise, they got Wilk, Richardson and L.Williams.

D.Boose was the last D-lineman they took in the second round- in 1998.

No, Richardson was drafted when the Jets had Wilkerson and Coples (who had a good rookie year).  The Jets then proceeded to move Coples to OLB and ruin his career.

Drafting Williams over Beasley may have been a mistake.  If Mac gets fired, it's going to be because he chose Leonard Williams over Vic Beasley and hitched his wagon to Hackenberg. 

[TuscanyTile2]

21 hours ago, hokiejetfan92 said:

I was thinking Myles Garret could be one of the best options available for the Jets this draft. He could be the pass rushing OLB we never had.

We're you referring to Myles Jack?

[Larz]

dumb and dumber were mostly because we had a defensive HC, Leo was a gift that fell into their laps

in hindsight that gift should have lead to dumb's trade or release but oh well

[TuscanyTile2]

20 hours ago, Jet_Engine1 said:

When Williams dropped to them, they should have put Mo AND Sheldon on The trading block for more pieces to build a real defense, not one designed to stop an Erhardt-Perkins Offense from 1992.

Wasn't Erhardt/Perkins from 1982?

[Snell41]

Drafting them is not the issue. In fact we should draft one every few years. DL is one of the few positions where a solid prospect can step in and be impactful right away.

The mistake is giving these guys 2nd contracts. There is no worse return on your money in the NFL than the 2nd contract of a star DLineman. Wilk, Suh, Watt (yes him too), Williams..... the list goes on. They deteriorate quickly, and their position is not nearly as impactful as the cost of that 2nd contract.

The mistake was not drafting Williams, the mistake was signing Wilk.


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[August]

10 hours ago, drdetroit said:

So?  

So what?