hey !.. Brian Winters could be leaving, and winter is coming for Jets' O-line ~ ~ ~

[kelly]

Brian Winters could be leaving, and winter is coming for Jets' O-line

9:30 AM ET

• 
  Rich CiminiESPN Staff Writer

•  
• Facebook
• Twitter
• Facebook Messenger
• Pinterest
• Email
• print
• comment

FLORHAM PARK, N.J. -- New York Jets quarterback Bryce Petty is planning to wear a protective pad on his bruised chest for Saturday's game against the New England Cheaters. He joked that maybe he should outfit himself in something similar to what the jousters wear in the movie "A Knight's Tale," which he happened to see recently.

It was a self-deprecating shot, not a commentary on his offensive line. That being said, a suit of armor might not be a bad idea.The Jets have lost another lineman, perhaps their best one, as right guard Brian Winters (shoulder) was placed on injured reserve Tuesday. He became the fourth lineman to land on IR, joining tackles Ryan Clady and Breno Giacomini and center Nick Mangold.

This week's starting five could look like this : 

Left tackle: Ben Ijalana, 11 career starts.

Left guard: James Carpenter, 69. He's the only member of the original five still standing.

Center: Wesley Johnson, 7.

Right guard: Dakota Dozier, 0.

Right tackle: Brandon Shell, 1.

If this doesn't send a loud message to general manager Mike Maccagnan, nothing will:

Rebuild the line !

With Brian Winters now out, that means four out of the five original Jets starting offensive linemen this season are on injured reserve. Wesley Hitt/Getty Images

Once upon a time (circa 2009), the Jets' line was the envy of the league. It was tough, smart and seasoned, a nice blend of young and old. Since then, the quality of the unit has deteriorated because of neglect and poor mid-round drafting.

Welcome to the dark side.

In the last six drafts, dating to 2011, the Jets are the only team that hasn't used a first- or second-round pick on an offensive lineman. During the same span, the Dallas Cowboys and Tennessee Titans invested three first-round picks apiece on linemen. It's no coincidence they have arguably the two best lines in the NFL.

The last time the Jets used a premium pick on a lineman? It was Vlad Ducasse, a second-round bust in 2010. Three different administrations -- Mike Tannenbaum, John Idzik and Maccagnan -- avoided the all-in approach toward the line. They drafted seven players in rounds three to six, with only one developing into a starter: Winters. The jury is still out on Shell, but the trend is obvious:

In the middle and late rounds, the portion of the draft when teams rely heavily on their scouts, the Jets have whiffed.This offseason, Maccagnan must prioritize the line. He can start by cutting Clady and Giacomini and re-signing Winters -- if his injury isn't serious and the price tag isn't exorbitant. After a shaky start to his career, he has developed into a solid starter.

Mangold's cap charge next season ($9.1 million) is prohibitive, so they have to re-work his contract or cut bait. It's always tough to part with a decorated, heart-and-soul player, but they have to remove emotion from the decision. If a younger, cheaper alternative comes along, make the switch.

Johnson has earned some positive reviews in Mangold's place, but you don't get the sense he's viewed as the long-term answer. Thing is, there are no studs in the draft and the free-agent crop is thin, so it might make sense to go with the Mangold-Johnson tandem again.

Left tackle is the big question; the answer isn't on the roster. In the draft, Alabama's Cam Robinson is considered the top prospect, but he's not regarded as a surefire top-5 pick, where the Jets likely will be picking. The top names in free agency are Matt Kalil (coming off hip surgery), Andrew Whitworth (35) and Riley Reiff (currently a right tackle).

Rebuilding the line won't be an overnight process, but it has to be done, starting now. The quarterback situation will grab the headlines, but Maccagnan should remember this: Build the foundation before adding the chandeliers.

>     http://www.espn.com/blog/new-york-jets/post/_/id/65797/brian-winters-could-be-leaving-and-winter-is-coming-for-jets-o-line

[Beerfish]

With that line the Jets should be dressing 3 QBs for the next two games.

[kelly]

1 minute ago, Beerfish said:

With that line the Jets should be dressing 5 QBs for the next two games.

fixed..

 

 

[The Crimson King]

Brian Winters could be leaving, and winter is coming for Jets' O-line

 

...  and not even Jon Snow can save them

[jeremy2020]

43 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

With that line the Jets should be dressing 3 QBs for the next two games.

Dress one. Fitzpatrick. He plays no matter what.

[ASH1962]

this should be the prefect end to this horrific season which cannot come fast enough

[jett]

Winters should be a priority this off season. Need to sign this guy. Jets love doing the dirty work for other teams. In the few instances where we develop players we let them go just as they are play well (slauson) 

[Beerfish]

7 minutes ago, jett said:

Winters should be a priority this off season. Need to sign this guy. Jets love doing the dirty work for other teams. In the few instances where we develop players we let them go just as they are play well (slauson) 

Auston whats his face for the Raiders as well.

[CanadaSteve]

4 hours ago, Beerfish said:

With that line the Jets should be dressing 3 QBs for the next two games.

With Petty's arm, because he can make all the throws, he should be in the EXTRA-shot gun position.  Like, 15 yards back.  That might give him enough time to throw a pass two yards past the LOS.

[dbatesman]

4 hours ago, kelly said:

Brian Winters could be leaving, and winter is coming for Jets' O-line

9:30 AM ET

• 
  Rich CiminiESPN Staff Writer

•  
• Facebook
• Twitter
• Facebook Messenger
• Pinterest
• Email
• print
• comment

FLORHAM PARK, N.J. -- New York Jets quarterback Bryce Petty is planning to wear a protective pad on his bruised chest for Saturday's game against the New England Cheaters. He joked that maybe he should outfit himself in something similar to what the jousters wear in the movie "A Knight's Tale," which he happened to see recently.

I know we all laughed at Lee for the Spongebob thing, and rightfully so, but this is a thousand times worse.

[bitonti]

Luke Joeckel would be my FA target.

He's relatively young but has starting LT experience and the Jaguars botched his career up fairly badly. He was playing lock down LT in preseason before Kelvin Beachum was ready. Then they moved him to guard, then he got hurt (knee).

http://www.espn.com/blog/nflnation/post/_/id/216758/injured-luke-joeckels-run-with-the-jaguars-might-be-over

The Jets line is awful without Nick Mangold, if he's healthy in the offseason I'd rather they re-work his contract rather than cut him. He's still far better than Wesley "early snap that got Petty killed" Johnson. Brandon Shell on the other hand looks like the RT of the future based on his one start.   

 

[PepPep]

The O-line situation is not as dire a it seems. 

1. The Jets have a high draft pick. This helps! They could very well draft an OT that can step right in and start at RT or RG. 

2. The Jets will almost certainly clear a ton of cap. ONE legit OT starter will probably be signed to play LT. 

3. W.Johnson has done well filling in for Mangold. He will almost certainly be resigned as he is a RFA. He could very well start at C next year if the Jets move on from Mangold. If not, he will most likely compete for the RG spot- if the Jets move on from Winters. 

4. Lets not forget that Clady and Mangold are still good players when healthy, and they are still under contract. So even if the Jets aren't able to bring in starting caliber FA's or miss out on a starting caliber O-lineman in the draft, the left side is solidified with vets- Clady, Carpenter, Mangold. That's half the battle.

Macc will have a challenging offseason. There's a lot of work to be done. But he will have a lot of money to work with and he will have a lot of directions he can go in and he will have at the very least, a high draft pick in every round. I have faith he can re-tool/re-build/re-whatever the O-line and secondary.   

[CrazyCarl40]

19 minutes ago, PepPep said:

The O-line situation is not as dire a it seems. 

1. The Jets have a high draft pick. This helps! They could very well draft an OT that can step right in and start at RT or RG. 

2. The Jets will almost certainly clear a ton of cap. ONE legit OT starter will probably be signed to play LT. 

3. W.Johnson has done well filling in for Mangold. He will almost certainly be resigned as he is a RFA. He could very well start at C next year if the Jets move on from Mangold. If not, he will most likely compete for the RG spot- if the Jets move on from Winters. 

4. Lets not forget that Clady and Mangold are still good players when healthy, and they are still under contract. So even if the Jets aren't able to bring in starting caliber FA's or miss out on a starting caliber O-lineman in the draft, the left side is solidified with vets- Clady, Carpenter, Mangold. That's half the battle.

Macc will have a challenging offseason. There's a lot of work to be done. But he will have a lot of money to work with and he will have a lot of directions he can go in and he will have at the very least, a high draft pick in every round. I have faith he can re-tool/re-build/re-whatever the O-line and secondary.   

The Jets will be picking around #5. There isn't an offensive lineman graded to go that high.

Your 2nd point and your 4th point contradict each other. The Jets are going to clear cap space but to do so, Mangold and Clady are both gone in all likelihood, plus Clady was average when he did play and gets injured every year.

The offensive line, aside from the QB, is probably the most dire unit on the team. Secondary is a close second.

[bostonmajet]

10 minutes ago, PepPep said:

The O-line situation is not as dire a it seems. 

1. The Jets have a high draft pick. This helps! They could very well draft an OT that can step right in and start at RT or RG. 

2. The Jets will almost certainly clear a ton of cap. ONE legit OT starter will probably be signed to play LT. 

3. W.Johnson has done well filling in for Mangold. He will almost certainly be resigned as he is a RFA. He could very well start at C next year if the Jets move on from Mangold. If not, he will most likely compete for the RG spot- if the Jets move on from Winters. 

4. Lets not forget that Clady and Mangold are still good players when healthy, and they are still under contract. So even if the Jets aren't able to bring in starting caliber FA's or miss out on a starting caliber O-lineman in the draft, the left side is solidified with vets- Clady, Carpenter, Mangold. That's half the battle.

Macc will have a challenging offseason. There's a lot of work to be done. But he will have a lot of money to work with and he will have a lot of directions he can go in and he will have at the very least, a high draft pick in every round. I have faith he can re-tool/re-build/re-whatever the O-line and secondary.   

1. It has been said before, there is not a lot of depth and quality at OT in this draft - no point in reaching; also there is a decent difference between LT and RT many players are normally one or the other and they are rarely good at both; there is a world of difference between T and G.

2. Maybe, but with a weak draft at LT, the FA market will be tight as many teams will want to sign one.

3. Johnson maybe be as good as Mangold (although I think Mangold is still better at pass blocking); the is 30+ year old Mangold that is; 5 years ago Mangold was an all pro. So, Johnson is about as good as an old Mangold - not the ringing endorsement you make it out to be; also, Winters was OK, I would like to see us improve at RG; again C and G are different and often require different skills and body types.

4. Clady hasn't been healthy for a while; Macc took a gamble; I get it; but, at 10 million we need to move on. Yes, Mangold may have another year left in him, but it is only a year (maybe two) and it is a year of the older (slower to heal) Mangold

I would say the current status of the OL is very dire and not something you want to build a good offense (or QB) around. I know that Mac had so many holes to fill and can only do so much, but our OL is just bad. Carpenter is the only guy I would be happy about keeping. Maybe Shell grows into the job at RT, but it wasn't like Winters was pro-bowl material and Dozier couldn't beat him out after 3 years. Even if he plays well next year, he will be gone afterwards (or we will have to overpay).

LG is good; LT is a joke, RT is an unknown and C and RG are okay (and likely to loose one or both in the offseason). I am not sure how much more dire it can get. IMO.

[CrazyCarl40]

5 hours ago, jett said:

Winters should be a priority this off season. Need to sign this guy. Jets love doing the dirty work for other teams. In the few instances where we develop players we let them go just as they are play well (slauson) 

No, they don't. There is no need to sink decent money into a second guard. He's an average player and they're already paying Carpenter a good amount to play guard on the other side. Qvale could probably slide into RG and you wouldn't notice a difference. He actually did just that when Winters took a personal foul penalty headbutting an opponent and also gave himself a concussion. He's not a must sign. Let some other team overpay.

[bostonmajet]

3 minutes ago, CrazyCarl40 said:

No, they don't. There is no need to sink decent money into a second guard. He's an average player and they're already paying Carpenter a good amount to play guard on the other side. Qvale could probably slide into RG and you wouldn't notice a difference. He actually did just that when Winters took a personal foul penalty headbutting an opponent and also gave himself a concussion. He's not a must sign. Let some other team overpay.

Not sure how well Qvale did at guard - frankly I don't remember, but Winters is just OK. I am not sure he is even average in this league. Even on his rookie contract I wanted him upgraded - I certainly don't want to see us overpay for him.

[PepPep]

1 hour ago, CrazyCarl40 said:

The Jets will be picking around #5. There isn't an offensive lineman graded to go that high.

Your 2nd point and your 4th point contradict each other. The Jets are going to clear cap space but to do so, Mangold and Clady are both gone in all likelihood, plus Clady was average when he did play and gets injured every year.

The offensive line, aside from the QB, is probably the most dire unit on the team. Secondary is a close second.

1. I never said they have to draft an OT 5th overall. A trade down scenario or trade up scenario OR both could land them one of the top OT prospects in the draft. Having high draft picks in every round helps in maneuvering. Heck, maybe one of them slips to us early in the 2nd round. Ramzcyk will undergo surgery and miss the combine and pro day. He is the type of player that can step right in and start. One of the top OTs in the draft. But the surgery may force his stock to drop. We may get him early in the 2nd. 

2. Not necessarily. The Jets can clear a ton of cap space without even touching the O-line. Yes, odds are they cut Clady or Mangold and maybe they don't resign Ijalana and Winters. But my points don;t contradict, they actually complement each other. If the Jets don't cut Clady and whomever to pursue a FA OT (as suggested by point #2), they will in all likely hood KEEP Clady and Mangold (as suggested by point #4). The Jets essentially have 2 directions they can go in. And heck, maybe they go somewhere in between, keeping Mangold and cutting Clady, or whatever.

3. I disagree. I think Clady was solid when he played. Both in the run game and the pass game. Thats all you can really ask for. Maybe he wasn't dominant and at a Pro Bowl level. But he played well and did his job. He was certainly above average. But I guess that is a matter of opinion- what it is to be 'average', 'above average' 'solid', 'good', etc.

Yes, O-line needs to be addressed. Both in FA and the draft. The Jets also have multiple FAs in Ijalana, Winters and W.Johnson. But my point was simply that it can turned around fairly quickly. At least t o bring it to a level where they can adequately protect our young QB and have a productive run game.     

[NYDreamer]

I'm going to bring up two points that give Maccagnen a break regarding the Offensive line.  

Last years draft, MaCcagnen attempted to trade up in the draft when Lerrimy Tunsil fell to the 10th pick.  They wanted to draft him to be the LT of the future but could not get the deal worked out.

Those of us that follow the draft rumors and research, If you remember, the Jets were prepared to select Scherref (SP) who was selected by Washington one pick before Leonard Williams.  Now Williams is a great pick but

One more thing, if you remember the Houston Texans jumped ahead of the Jets in the 2nd round right before they were expected to select the Notre Dame guard (Forgetting his name) but his brother plays for Dallas.

If those 3 moves actually came to fruition over the past two drafts, we would be have had one of the best O-lines for years but unfortunately the players were selected right before our pick.

 

[jett]

7 hours ago, CrazyCarl40 said:

No, they don't. There is no need to sink decent money into a second guard. He's an average player and they're already paying Carpenter a good amount to play guard on the other side. Qvale could probably slide into RG and you wouldn't notice a difference. He actually did just that when Winters took a personal foul penalty headbutting an opponent and also gave himself a concussion. He's not a must sign. Let some other team overpay.

I disagree with this. We need line help, Winters has been very good for us this year, why would we get rid of a player we need? Who are you replacing him with? Qvale or another guard that'll probably cost more. Or you could draft one again and start all over, but I'm tired of that. We got one that can play, we should pay him. 

[David Harris]

I think the board is slightly  over rating winters. I still see him as pretty poor. 

 Clady on the other hand please a premium spot and I have no problem re-signing him if the number is reasonable, not at the 10 million he's scheduled for now. We need a hold the fort left tackle and there is nobody else in free agency or in the draft. 

[SR24]

Gotta love having a top pick in the draft and having no elite talent olineman in the class -____-

[BurnleyJet]

13 minutes ago, SR24 said:

Gotta love having a top pick in the draft and having no elite talent olineman in the class -____-

So Jetsy.

[CrazyCarl40]

7 hours ago, jett said:

I disagree with this. We need line help, Winters has been very good for us this year, why would we get rid of a player we need? Who are you replacing him with? Qvale or another guard that'll probably cost more. Or you could draft one again and start all over, but I'm tired of that. We got one that can play, we should pay him. 

Winters has been slightly above average. I'm all for bringing him back cheaply. I don't see that happening. Hopefully Qvale or Dozier or a number of other shots in the dark can show something the next two weeks and it won't matter. 

[faba]

Dallas has set the bar high with their offensive line-but you can rebuild through good drafting and plug in free agents. Mangold back at cheaper deal with Carpenter and Winters-tackles are the big problem area

[varjet]

13 hours ago, NYDreamer said:

I'm going to bring up two points that give Maccagnen a break regarding the Offensive line.  

Last years draft, MaCcagnen attempted to trade up in the draft when Lerrimy Tunsil fell to the 10th pick.  They wanted to draft him to be the LT of the future but could not get the deal worked out.

Those of us that follow the draft rumors and research, If you remember, the Jets were prepared to select Scherref (SP) who was selected by Washington one pick before Leonard Williams.  Now Williams is a great pick but

One more thing, if you remember the Houston Texans jumped ahead of the Jets in the 2nd round right before they were expected to select the Notre Dame guard (Forgetting his name) but his brother plays for Dallas.

If those 3 moves actually came to fruition over the past two drafts, we would be have had one of the best O-lines for years but unfortunately the players were selected right before our pick.

 

This all does show that Mac and other teams get the importance of offensive line play.   

It is also a symptom of the Jets not understanding the market.  They have too many failed deals-could not unload Mo, or SR, or could not grab the lineman.  They need to make it happen, but they are either too greedy or cheap.  My guess is that if they gave up or took what the other teams were asking for, we all would be happier.

wht would you rather have now, SR or a second round pick in 2017?  Look what the Cheaters take in their trades.

And yes, I am going to blame Woody.

Tannenbaum got the deal done and created a Jets team that won games.  They targeted Revis and Harris and brought them in Yes, it all crashed, but if someone knew what they were dong it could have been put back together.  The Jets have spun their wheels for 4 years.

Tannenbaum's biggest problem was that his scout was a cooked Bradway.  

We are not bringing Tanny back, and we don't want to.   But we need a professional to lead the effort.  We lack that now.

[Jetster]

Macc has his work cut out for him but I'm hoping he can use Sheldon Richardson to get 1 spot done, RG. I don't think it's a long shot to trade Richardson for Ron Leary. Dallas has Smith & Fredrickson who both made the Pro Bowl plus Doug Free who's very good. Leary wants a new contract & Dallas could use a defensive player like Sheldon & guys with baggage don't scare the Jones, they signed Greg Hardy for gods sake. 

Leary is an upgrade over Winters who I personally don't think he's that good. Carpenter-Johnson-Leary. That's a good start in the middle of the Oline. He might have to sign a free agent LT, draft a RT. At #5, let's hope the Bears win 1 more & we move up to #4, where we might be able to move back & get another pick. We'll be lucky to win 5/6 games again next year & will be picking high again in 2018. I could see a line like Kalil-Carpenter-Johnson-Leary-Robinson. That's a pretty good line, and if we can add a stud RB we could take some heat off whoever the QB is. We need so much help in the secondary, it would be great if we could use only 1 high pick in 2017 on the Oline & most of our top picks for a CB & Edge rusher.

[kelly]

Rich CiminiESPN Staff Writer 

Jets RG Brian Winters has a rotator cuff injury and is expected to have surgery, per Todd Bowles.

 

>     http://www.espn.com/nfl/team/_/name/nyj/new-york-jets

[bostonmajet]

I agree with many; while Winters has been serviceable (which is good for the OL this year), I would call him average at best. If he wants top RG money, let him walk. Mac does indeed have his work cut out for him; consider this - Carpenter (our best OL at this point IMO) is the only player on the line still playing in his starting position.