Nick Folk & Breno G Released: MERGED

[UnitedWhofans]

I mean honestly, if Revis was horrible last year, then it wont take much money to find somebody who can do better than him

[JustInFudge]

14 minutes ago, Bleedin Green said:

 

Agree with you both that the Jets are in a very unenviable position, and may be in worse long term shape than some of the teams that are currently at a lower-level right now.  With that said, higher draft picks are never a realistic measure of future success, especially when its those teams who constantly have high picks.  It's one thing when it's an occasional occurrence that gives a team the opportunity to take a top player after one outlier of a down year (or a trade up).  However, it starts to mean very little, in terms of being a positive, when it's a team who constantly has high picks and yet still keeps sucking.  That of course applies to the Jets as well, but the point is if the Jets had done even worse, to ultimately end up with a higher pick, we wouldn't be using that around here to suggest that the Jets were actually better than the other bad teams who had done (relatively) better the prior year.

Higher draft picks are not the end all be all but when you're young and have a lot of emerging high profile talent and 68 million in cap space without a bunch of sh*tty sh*t head veterans; you're in a better positoin no matter how you slice it.  Especially when you factor in the division. 

[UnitedWhofans]

3 minutes ago, JiF said:

1.  No it, doesnt.  You just gave me an example from 40 years ago.  The Florida Gatos started a QB from Cali and Ohio this season.

2.  Yes.  It's not rocket science.  The needling trending up isnt hard when you're a nobody. 

3.  I dont need you to give me anything.  Their roster is loaded with actual young talent, they have the 4th overall pick and 68 million dollars in cap space.  They also play in the worst division in Football. 

1. I can look at Rutgers in both sports in the present. They're trying to get players from NJ to stay in NJ. They are a long way from doing that but that's the goal.

2. Wayne Chrebet and Snacks Harrison were nobodies too. So the door is open.

3. Then how did we win more games than them in a much tougher division? The bottom line is until either the Jaguars or the Browns show that they can spend and draft properly to get out of the doghouse, they will stay there. The Jets did get out of the doghouse in 2015 with a 10-6 record (Parcells rule). They fell back in 2016 and 2017 is very important to show progress, otherwise both people will be gone

[Beerfish]

8 minutes ago, UnitedWhofans said:

I mean honestly, if Revis was horrible last year, then it wont take much money to find somebody who can do better than him

"IF"??????????????

[JustInFudge]

Just now, UnitedWhofans said:

1. I can look at Rutgers in both sports in the present. They're trying to get players from NJ to stay in NJ. They are a long way from doing that but that's the goal.

2. Wayne Chrebet and Snacks Harrison were nobodies too. So the door is open.

3. Then how did we win more games than them in a much tougher division? The bottom line is until either the Jaguars or the Browns show that they can spend and draft properly to get out of the doghouse, they will stay there. The Jets did get out of the doghouse in 2015 with a 10-6 record (Parcells rule). They fell back in 2016 and 2017 is very important to show progress, otherwise both people will be gone

1.  Rutgers. For **** sake.

2. 2 players in 30 years gives me so much hope. 

3. The difference between 5 and 3 is nothing.  The Jags arent strapped with sh*tty old high priced veterans that dont give a **** about Football.  The Jags didnt have their entire locker room ready to kill each other.  They have young hungry high profile talent, a new Head Coach, basically a new GM, 68 million in cap space and the 4th overall pick.

 

[UnitedWhofans]

Just now, Beerfish said:

"IF"??????????????

Only there to create the "If a then b" motif. Revis was horrible last year. No doubt about it

[UnitedWhofans]

1 minute ago, JiF said:

1.  Rutgers. For **** sake.

2. 2 players in 30 years gives me so much hope. 

3. The difference between 5 and 3 is nothing.  The Jags arent strapped with sh*tty old high priced veterans that dont give a **** about Football.  The Jags didnt have their entire locker room ready to kill each other.  They have young hungry high profile talent, a new Head Coach, basically a new GM, 68 million in cap space and the 4th overall pick.

 

And guess what? Because of the way Macc created his contracts, NEITHER ARE WE! We can dump them. And find players who do give a sh*t.

WIlkerson I think will have a bounce back year, Richardson will be traded. etc.

[lambo]

thank god that back picking holding machine is gone mixed emotions on Folk but I think I get it..

[JustInFudge]

2 minutes ago, UnitedWhofans said:

And guess what? Because of the way Macc created his contracts, NEITHER ARE WE! We can dump them. And find players who do give a sh*t.

WIlkerson I think will have a bounce back year, Richardson will be traded. etc.

The Jets have 7 mill in cap money.  lmfao.

[UnitedWhofans]

Just now, JiF said:

The Jets have 7 mill in cap money.  lmfao.

Yes right now they do. They can get up to 40m by cutting some of those unproductive sh*tty players who, logically, should be easy to replace if they all didn't try and sucked last year

[flgreen]

21 minutes ago, varjet said:

I am going to try and be positive.  The Folk move shows to me that the Jets are trying to build for the future.  If I was trying to win games in 2017 and spend the money to do it, I would kept Folk, because he is a decent kicker, but expensive.

Like last year with the Punter, the Jets will draft a late round kicker this year.  He will still be cheap.

The Jets do not have as much cap space as some of the lousy teams, but they also won more games than the lousy teams.  If I am Macc I am freeing up cap space from Revis, Gilcrist and one or both of the WRs and picking at least one CB to sign to a 5 year contract, 2 years guaranteed.  If Lattimore is there you can draft him too, unless you think Burris/Roberts is your no 2 corner, in which case you draft one of the safeties.

I watched the film on Jamal Adams yesterday.  He is going to be a super, duper player.

It's getting a bit confusing what their intention is.  This is the third year of this regime.  The "competitive" rebuild of the team hasn't worked very well.  IMO the team should be  in a painful total rebuild state. Bowles as a third year coach badly needs a winning season.  The media, and a good portion of the fan base was screaming for his head this year.  I can't believe he'll survive a 4-12, 5-11 season.  The way for him to avoid that is to cut the overpaid old guys, whose best years are behind them, and spend that money on a new group of old guys who are a year or so away from that status, get the team to 8-8 , 9-7, convince the owner that they are on a major upswing, only to have the "new" guys age in a year or so, and be back at 5-11.

I'll reserve the victory laps until I see who they spend the money on they are freeing up.  The last big spending spree didn't go so well

 

[Dcat]

18 hours ago, nyjunc said:

Giacomini was an easy one but Folk has been a reliable K for a long time for us.  

perhaps the Jets can re-sign him for less?

[Bleedin Green]

14 minutes ago, JiF said:

Higher draft picks are not the end all be all but when you're young and have a lot of emerging high profile talent and 68 million in cap space without a bunch of sh*tty sh*t head veterans; you're in a better positoin no matter how you slice it.  Especially when you factor in the division. 

Theoretically, yes.  But the good money bet is these historically sh*tty teams will continue to be sh*tty.  Of course, that doesn't mean anything good for the Jets, but none of us would be nearly as positive about those situations if the Jets were in it.  While the younger situation is a fair point, I always find it a tad difficult to believe in the supposed talent level of those young players when a team performs awfully.  Ultimately, the most likely scenario is the Jets will continue to have very familiar company in the NFL's basement.

[whodeawhodat]

18 hours ago, CrazyCarl40 said:

Mind boggling that they have to clear cap room considering how much Macc inherited from Idzik. The free agency portion of his job has been a massive failure on every level. 

It seemed like all(most) of the contracts Mac dished have outs after 2 years.  I guess we will see how much dead money we have after the purge.

[UnitedWhofans]

3 minutes ago, flgreen said:

It's getting a bit confusing what their intention is.  This is the third year of this regime.  The "competitive" rebuild of the team hasn't worked very well.  IMO the team should be  in a painful total rebuild state. Bowles as a third year coach badly needs a winning season.  The media, and a good portion of the fan base was screaming for his head this year.  I can't believe he'll survive a 4-12, 5-11 season.  The way for him to avoid that is to cut the overpaid old guys, whose best years are behind them, and spend that money on a new group of old guys who are a year or so away from that status, get the team to 8-8 , 9-7, convince the owner that they are on a major upswing, only to have the "new" guys age in a year or so, and be back at 5-11.

I'll reserve the victory laps until I see who they spend the money on they are freeing up.  The last big spending spree didn't go so well

 

That is very true.

[Dcat]

18 hours ago, CrazyCarl40 said:

Mind boggling that they have to clear cap room considering how much Macc inherited from Idzik. The free agency portion of his job has been a massive failure on every level. 

It's not mind boggling at all.  It happens to many teams.  The ebbs and flows of cap status change rapidly depending on how much cap space is deferred by back loading contracts.  In this respect, I'd say Mac has done a fair-average job.  Not horrible but certainly far from  great.

[Dcat]

18 hours ago, section314 said:

When Marshall, Revis and Decker are gone, then we can tap the keg.

Don't hold you breath.  IMO, at most 2 of those guys get released and probably just one. 

[Dcat]

17 hours ago, Matthew007b said:

Wonder if Revis is next.. probably not since they're hoping they can keep the $6 million.. he's not going to court until next month..

 

Wonder who is next? 

his court appearance date is after his $2 million roster bonus is due.  Now I'm not sure if that $2 million will count against the guaranteed $6 million or not.  But if it doesn't, then if he gets cut, it will be before that court date and the jets will not be able to shed that $6 million guarantee. 

[Dcat]

17 hours ago, T0mShane said:

You needs to look at the roster and see how the team met your expectations for that roster. Considering that Sheldon and Mo both dogged it, you have to point the finger at Bowles mostly. But the fact that the young guys are trash, mostly, suggests that Macc sucks, too. There isn't much future on the team right now.

I think Mo dogged it.  I think Sheldon played harder than anyone else on the defense.  He didn't dog anything.  He's just a loud mouth idiot... but he played hard.  Not his fault Bowles played him out of position most of the time. 

[bgivs21]

I don't understand why people want Marshall AND Decker gone. From what i saw last year, we had a decent group of young WRs, NOT great. If we cut both and have a young QB starting that's a recipe for disaster. 

[JustInFudge]

15 minutes ago, Bleedin Green said:

Theoretically, yes.  But the good money bet is these historically sh*tty teams will continue to be sh*tty.  Of course, that doesn't mean anything good for the Jets, but none of us would be nearly as positive about those situations if the Jets were in it.  While the younger situation is a fair point, I always find it a tad difficult to believe in the supposed talent level of those young players when a team performs awfully.  Ultimately, the most likely scenario is the Jets will continue to have very familiar company in the NFL's basement.

Let me put it this way; the core of youngsters in Marquis Lee, Allan Robinson, Allan Hurns, Malik Jackson, Telvin Smith, Miles Jack, Yannick Ngakoe, Dante Fowler and Jalen Ramsey seems much stronger than Leo Williams, Robbie Anderson and Quincy Enunwa. 

[Dcat]

3 minutes ago, JiF said:

Let me put it this way; the core of youngsters in Marquis Lee, Allan Robinson, Allan Hurns, Malik Jackson, Telvin Smith, Miles Jack, Yannick Ngakoe, Dante Fowler and Jalen Ramsey seems much stronger than Leo Williams, Robbie Anderson and Quincy Enunwa. 

How did Robinson play last season?  Most overrated "top 10" WR in the NFL.  Robinson was awful last year.  Not quite as bad as Marshall but very close.  Hurns, after getting that ridiculous contract crapped the bed as well.. and that was well before his injury.  He was a non contributor from day 1 -16 last year.  They vastly overpaid for Malik Jackson... even worse than we overpaid for Mo. Fowler?  Did NOT impress last season coming off that terrible rookie injury.  Can't judge him yet because of that injury.  This will be the year that determines how good or bad he is.  Lee finally emerged because Robinson and Hurns sucked so bad.  Kind of like Robby Anderson here. Love jack and Ramsey.

Overall, I'd say they are a bit better staffed on defense but they have lots of garbage/dogs on offense.  And no TE if that trade with Miami goes through.  Not good in Jax.

[whodeawhodat]

16 minutes ago, Dcat said:

I think Mo dogged it.  I think Sheldon played harder than anyone else on the defense.  He didn't dog anything.  He's just a loud mouth idiot... but he played hard.  Not his fault Bowles played him out of position most of the time. 

I think Mo's injury held him back this past year.  I used to think Sheldon was all power and hustle but he def dogged it.  There was a clip during the season of him getting pancaked by a stiff arm from a tackle.  He def took losing hard and the locker room got to him imo.

[JustInFudge]

10 minutes ago, Dcat said:

How did Robinson play last season?  Most overrated "top 10" WR in the NFL.  Robinson was awful last year.  Not quite as bad as Marshall but very close.  Hurns, after getting that ridiculous contract crapped the bed as well.. and that was well before his injury.  He was a non contributor from day 1 -16 last year.  They vastly overpaid for Malik Jackson... even worse than we overpaid for Mo. Fowler?  Did NOT impress last season coming off that terrible rookie injury.  Can't judge him yet because of that injury.  This will be the year that determines how good or bad he is.  Lee finally emerged because Robinson and Hurns sucked so bad.  Kind of like Robby Anderson here. Love jack and Ramsey.

Overall, I'd say they are a bit better staffed on defense but they have lots of garbage/dogs on offense.  And no TE if that trade with Miami goes through.  Not good in Jax.

What's interesting about this is I battled like 5 people here one day, saying Lee was the best WR on the team and those people were trying to claim Robinson was on his way to the top 10.  The drop off in production had more to do with Bortles than anything else.  Between, Lee, Robinson, Hurns, Greene, Benn, Walters...they're young and can play. 

Malik Jackson is a monster, they didnt over pay.  Fowler was on the IR his rookie season.  He had 4 sacks and was starting to look the part toward the end of the year.  He's good. He'll be fine.  Telvin Smith is reallllllly good.   Jack and Ramsey are going to be very good. 

I'd prefer to be in the Jags situation with youngsters getting better than the Jets with veterans getting sh*ttier. 

[choklits]

We need to get to a point where we don't have to amass large amounts of money for free agency. The Patriots, Steelers, and a few others have provided the blueprint for long term success and our Jets have refused to accept it because it requires patience. Notice those teams never spend huge amounts of money for free agents. They buy one here and there to fill a hole and rarely spend on top players. And in the case of the Patriots, they are not afraid of releasing or trading top players if they don't follow the salary slot the Pats are willing to pay by position. And for sure if they are locker room problems. But they have one thing they insist on and that is everyone on the defense MUST tackle. We miss so many tackles it is pitiful. 

We need to rid ourselves of Revis, Marshall (kills me), Mangold, Harris and Henderson, and trade Richardson and see if there is a market for Pryor (where was that hard hitting style and he frequently takes the wrong angle.).

The secret isn't getting the top picks. It is getting lots of picks in the first 4 rounds. If you have a good scouting department and a system for what you look for then getting many picks helps attain it.

[peebag]

18 hours ago, Beerfish said:

Game of Thrones character?

 

[T0mShane]

1 hour ago, Dcat said:

I think Mo dogged it.  I think Sheldon played harder than anyone else on the defense.  He didn't dog anything.  He's just a loud mouth idiot... but he played hard.  Not his fault Bowles played him out of position most of the time. 

You're right. I misspoke about Sheldon.

[Beerfish]

The part were Shel dogged it was missing meetings etc.  but I agree he did play hard but not hard enough.  He is going to have a huge year this year for some other team, contract year will resonate with him a great deal.

[faba]

I would like to think Mo was not right last year coming off his injury for his performance think he will be back this coming year. Sheldon  is a problem to handle which makes me uncomfortable always waiting for suspension to happen

[Fantasy Island]

Can't wait til this Albatross gets cut.

[CanadaSteve]

3 hours ago, JiF said:

1.  Rutgers. For **** sake.

2. 2 players in 30 years gives me so much hope. 

3. The difference between 5 and 3 is nothing.  The Jags arent strapped with sh*tty old high priced veterans that dont give a **** about Football.  The Jags didnt have their entire locker room ready to kill each other.  They have young hungry high profile talent, a new Head Coach, basically a new GM, 68 million in cap space and the 4th overall pick.

 

Point is JiF, UNTIL the Browns and Jags show otherwise, they are still the Browns and the Jags, just like we are the Jets.  If they don't spend the money and draft well, they are going nowhere.

I wanna give Mac two more years to see what happens.  But the free agency spending to get back to mediocrity was a failed experiment.  The money should have been used to bring in younger guys with potential, and some saved for a rainy day to pay young guys who have proven their medal.

I like some of the young guys we have now, but it will all be for sh*t if we can't find a guy who can throw the rock.

[CrazyCarl40]

4 hours ago, whodeawhodat said:

It seemed like all(most) of the contracts Mac dished have outs after 2 years.  I guess we will see how much dead money we have after the purge.

Yes but the fact that all of these players signed two years ago are on the chopping block instead of being building blocks is at issue. Money is whatever. It's value that Macc is missing big time. 

4 hours ago, Dcat said:

It's not mind boggling at all.  It happens to many teams.  The ebbs and flows of cap status change rapidly depending on how much cap space is deferred by back loading contracts.  In this respect, I'd say Mac has done a fair-average job.  Not horrible but certainly far from  great.

No. He's been abhorrent. I know everyone has different shades of Jets Green glasses on but anyone not sipping the kool aid anymore can see that he's in way over his head. 

[Mogglez]

6 hours ago, gEYno said:

Really?

The Browns are in the same place we are, including the #1 pick and another 1st.  They're also younger than we are.

The Chargers still have Philip Rivers, and the idea that you'd take our QB situation over Mariota is laughable.  The bills have more talent than us, but they may lose their QB, so we'll see.

I think there's an argument for the 49ers and the Jags, but both teams go into this offseason with higher picks, so I'm not sure it's clear cut.  There might be an argument for the Rams too, but that assumes that Goff is a bust already, and from the franchise who is literally explaining that our 2nd round QB who sucked in college and in training camp and in preseason and couldn't get into a game in a lost season with the starter being awful, the backup getting hurt, and the third string getting hurt and being awful, and this is still okay, it's a bit soon to sell on Goff.

It may be a really harsh criticism on them but, honestly, until the Browns show any sort of competency, I'm not going to give them any benefit of the doubt that they take multiple first rounders and turn them into anything.  The last time they had this "they're finally gonna get it right" type of hype, they flipped it into Johnny Manziel and Justin Gilbert.  Same goes for their CAP space.

The Chargers have Philip Rivers, fine.  But he's getting older and the rest of that team is a mess. Plus, the whole LA thing, but that's another discussion for another thread.

Mariota destroyed his knee at the very end of the season and again, the rest of that team isn't that great.  They had a decent year, but does anyone really believe that their record instead a 2013 Jets-esque outlier?  I expect them to take a huge step back.

The Bills, for all their talent, got swept by us.  We'll see what new coaching brings them, but they are due to make some tough FA decisions and that's not even going into Taylor.

The Jags/49ers we agree on. 

The Rams, after all they gave up for Goff, better see some return on that investment.  Outside of Gurley, Ogletree (eh) and Donald, they are a train wreck of an organization.  Top to bottom.  

Hack has been discussed ad nauseum.  There was a plan in place.  They stood by it.  It was more important to observe Petty anyway.  Some don't believe that.  That's fine. This QB class sucks anyway, might as well give him another year to marinate. I don't want to derail an entire thread (again) over the kid.  Only  other thing I'll really say is he was a 2nd round pick, nothing close to the commitment made for Goff.  What they gave up, and what they've gotten back is enough reason to be extremely worried about him.  Not saying he's a bust, but there's a huge difference between the two situations.  They aren't comparable in any world. 

Look, I know we are in a bad place. Our record showed that.  I'm not entirely disagreeing with you.  I'm just pointing out that there are young pieces on this team.  If Macc, or any other GM in the near future, can land us a franchise guy...then we're honestly in pretty decent shape.

[Jetster]

5 hours ago, Dcat said:

How did Robinson play last season?  Most overrated "top 10" WR in the NFL.  Robinson was awful last year.  Not quite as bad as Marshall but very close.  Hurns, after getting that ridiculous contract crapped the bed as well.. and that was well before his injury.  He was a non contributor from day 1 -16 last year.  They vastly overpaid for Malik Jackson... even worse than we overpaid for Mo. Fowler?  Did NOT impress last season coming off that terrible rookie injury.  Can't judge him yet because of that injury.  This will be the year that determines how good or bad he is.  Lee finally emerged because Robinson and Hurns sucked so bad.  Kind of like Robby Anderson here. Love jack and Ramsey.

Overall, I'd say they are a bit better staffed on defense but they have lots of garbage/dogs on offense.  And no TE if that trade with Miami goes through.  Not good in Jax.

I had Robinson in Fantasy football & he blew chunks!

[UnitedWhofans]

2 hours ago, CrazyCarl40 said:

Yes but the fact that all of these players signed two years ago are on the chopping block instead of being building blocks is at issue. Money is whatever. It's value that Macc is missing big time. 

No. He's been abhorrent. I know everyone has different shades of Jets Green glasses on but anyone not sipping the kool aid anymore can see that he's in way over his head. 

You don't win NFL Executive of the Year and are completely abhorrent. That doesn't work