Bill Polian and Jeff Saturday take on the Jets "tanking"

[Integrity28]

The Jets were arguably the worst team in football by the end of last season. So, of course Jets fans want to fix this, but at the same time, they don't want anything to change with the roster. Same old, same old.

Polian and Saturday were spot on in the video. I think JN has become so disgustingly irrational it's not even fun to tro... lol, yea right, who am I kidding?

[JoJoTownsell1]

5 hours ago, T0mShane said:

Pretty fun now Polian defends the veteran cuts because they weren't playing up to their salaries, but doesn't point out that, except for Mangold, the ink was still wet on each of the contracts that Mike Maccagnan handed them in the first place.

 

This goes back to that anonymous quote regarding the Maccagnan hire, where someone who knew him said the job was going to be too big for him. I think that's really, really been a spot on analysis as it's played out. He runs the team like he can't see past his nose.

A negative slant on positive story about the Jets. So surprising coming from you....

[Skeptable]

Just now, #27TheDominator said:

If you think these young players are better than the vets that is an argument to hang your hat on.  It does coincide with top pick in the draft.

 

You just love to bash the people who believe that there is some competence to all these moves by the GM. Just because YOU See it that way doesn't mean that everyone else one doesn't see it that way is wrong.  Just because it didn't work out doesn't mean that the thought process wasn't sound and did he make some mistakes sure... But they are not all disastrous the way you make them out to be. In fact, I love the way Mac has handled everything this year.  It shows they have faith in their draft picks and are ready to move on.  Everybody is already penned them in hard for 0-3 wins this year... I think that the Jets are going to surprise a lot of teams now.

[whodeawhodat]

8 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

If you think these young players are better than the vets that is an argument to hang your hat on.  It does not coincide with top pick in the draft.

 

IDK if these young players are better than the vets we released.  Our team was sh*t last year so we cleaned house, see what the next man up has.  figure out what holes we need to fill or if our team is just a giant hole with a couple of players to build off of.Either way, i am good with the timing as this draft is being hailed as QB rich.  Even if one of our young QBs does well this year, i am all for using our top pick on another QB.

[T0mShane]

3 minutes ago, JoJoTownsell1 said:

A negative slant on positive story about the Jets. So surprising coming from you....

You need to consider all the angles, weezy.

[Skeptable]

Just now, Integrity28 said:

The Jets were arguably the worst team in football by the end of last season. So, of course Jets fans want to fix this, but at the same time, they don't want anything to change with the roster. Same old, same old.

Polian and Saturday were spot on in the video. I think JN has become so disgustingly irrational it's not even fun to tro... lol, yea right, who am I kidding?

Exactly, there are still some sane posters on this board... Jets try to keep the roster in tack, bring in some mercenaries last year and find out it didn't work... they move on by cutting the players that weren't performing last year and now the Jets fans bitch about how they dumped them. We have a new QB that may come up to surprise, but no the Jets fans can't be happy about that because they were burned by so many developmental Qbs before... so now Bash and Trash... Nothing will make these posters happy... Until they win again... Period STOP.

[dbatesman]

9 minutes ago, Skeptable said:

Just because it didn't work out doesn't mean that the thought process wasn't sound

You guys finally get religion on process over results, and it's in the context of defending Mike ******* Maccagnan. I love this place.

[Adoni Beast]

1 hour ago, #27TheDominator said:

Are you ******* deaf?

So, we are supposed to applaud the fact that he gave us such a sh*tty roster that we are in position to tank for #1 overall?  You can't make this sh*t up.

That alone is worth firing him.  Marshall was a dog.  Quit on the team, fought with his teammates, yaps to the press, falls in love with one QB to the detriment of th others, tells the coach who to start, dropped a sh*tload of passes and had a horrific catch rate.  That is the guy you want to keep?  He was literally #1 on the must cut parade.  If you said he tried to restructure Harris or Mangold I would say okay.  Marshall?  **** that. 

No I wanted the team completely gutted since 2011. So righr now I'm extremely happy about the current direction. I was saying I get why people thought keeping Marshall and Decker would help our QB's. But I didn't agree with the rationale.

Prudent direction is to give our young wr's and qb's the reps and build a chemistry that can go into the future, instead of using two vets for a year, who would have underperformed. Cut bait with whoever can't show anything. 

[JoJoTownsell1]

13 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

You need to consider all the angles, weezy.

Positive,  negative and trolling. Gotcha

[jetspenguin]

20 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

Your post count means nothing to me one way or the other.  I do think that it is funny that you think you have been a Jets fan longer than me.  It's not likely, but also not particularly relevant. Your comments indicated that you weren't around WHEN WE WERE COMPLAINING!

I actually appreciate your take on who you bitched about at the time. I didn't have a problem with bringing Powell back. My problem is that I don't see Powell and Forte as complimentary and Powell got more money than he should have coming off a mediocre season on a 1/$2M deal. Clady being the best option is not a feather in the GMs cap. 

I actually defended some of those moves, but people complained and complained vehemently.  You guys said we didn't.  Worse, they were right to complain.  Tell me where they were wrong.  I still have hope the Wilkerson deal will be worthwhile, but like Richardson, Pryor and Decker it does not seem to have been handled properly. 

I have been a jets fan longer than you....it isnt a guess, I have seen your post and you have said it enough. That's not a knock, I am only referencing my experience here. I only referenced it because your post sounded like you thought you were talking to someone who is new to the forum or to this team. 

I usually don't bitch about any of the moves, except Fitz, I HATED that shyt. I thought Revis was overpaid this last contract and still have some road rash about all those times he held out for contracts over the years but I understood the moves from a financial perspective and for the optics. Bringing revis back was happening regardless and so it didnt make sense to bitch about it.

I can see your point about powell and forte having similar styles and not being complimentary players. On the other hand Forte over the years has put in some work and has shown that he can run between the tackles as well so I can see where he should/could have been used there more and Powell used to give him  a breather. Unfortunately our OC saw things differently than I do.

The point to taking a chance on Clady wasnt intended to be a feather in his cap, it was used to illustrate how sometimes an injury risk pans out, sometimes not so much. The same deal can be said for our current LT.

Yes there is a group of people on this board and others who are habitual complainers who bitch about EVERYTHING. They whine, piss and moan no matter who is in charge and no matter what move is made. This is a tactic that some people use so they can always point back and say "see I was right, look at how smart I am" This fanbase unfortunately is littered with too many people who have been fooled by this franchise into thinking we have finally put together a winner so they are jaded. They are habitually negative and at this point dont believe shyt stinks until you tape it to their freaking nose. I get it....trust me I get it. I am not a green colored goggles fan (**** that) but I'm not a "the jets will suck until I die" fan either. I am mostly middle of the road. 

I think the wilkerson deal is a bad one but we will see, I personally cant wait to cut bait with sheldon. (I think his attitude is poison for a young team talent aside) Pryor I could care less about he was trash and Decker I was surprised about but I am not on the field, in negotiations or in practice and so I am at an infomation disadvantage. Mac has more info than I do. Some people say "hey he shouldnt have put it out there that he was going to cut him if he was going to be traded" but I can see also that if i was trying to get a deal with a certain team I might let it out that i will cut him to see if said team buckles, if not he was gone anyway. No sweat off my nose. I understand keeping Harris and Decker until after june first because there is a more significant cap savings the only thing I am definitely unhappy with that is that they could have been let go sooner and designated a post june 1st cut.     

In general I don't complain until I see it with my own eyes....everyone is burning the jets because we did the same thing this year that many teams have done many times.....and we finally did it in a year where we have some QB possibles on board already and 3 or 4 in the upcoming draft....and we have a boatload of money. My honest opinion is that the hope is Hack is good...REAL GOOD...then we have a 1-3 pick we can auction off for a boatload of picks or draft another qb and then trade hack for a number of extra picks....plus if I got the numbers right we will have about 80 mil in cap space. If hack sucks we still win and get a better QB in the draft. I think that is VERY sound planning despite what people say. 

So imo....I dont think we are in as bad a position as the media says and as people on this board seem to feel. 

But you know what? I could be entirely wrong, I dont know it all...

[jetspenguin]

20 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

You need to consider all the angles, weezy.

unfortunately you only have ONE angle

[rangerous]

3 hours ago, gEYno said:

O rly?

o rly.  given the choice of going into last season with fitz, geno, or petty at qb and fitz would've got the vote, hands down.  forte promised to give the jets some better pass receiving out of the back field and clady was still an okay tackle when healthy.  

[#27TheDominator]

32 minutes ago, jetspenguin said:

I usually don't bitch about any of the moves,

You don't like to bitch, but you admit to some misgivings about a bunch of these moves.  Some of us lurk, others post their misgivings.  Either is fine by me.

30 minutes ago, jetspenguin said:

unfortunately you only have ONE angle

Ah, but that angle is glorious!

24 minutes ago, rangerous said:

o rly.  given the choice of going into last season with fitz, geno, or petty at qb and fitz would've got the vote, hands down.  forte promised to give the jets some better pass receiving out of the back field and clady was still an okay tackle when healthy.  

True fact, our only choices were Geno, Petty or Fitzpatrick at $12M.  

[ASH1962]

6 hours ago, T0mShane said:

Pretty fun now Polian defends the veteran cuts because they weren't playing up to their salaries, but doesn't point out that, except for Mangold, the ink was still wet on each of the contracts that Mike Maccagnan handed them in the first place.

 

This goes back to that anonymous quote regarding the Maccagnan hire, where someone who knew him said the job was going to be too big for him. I think that's really, really been a spot on analysis as it's played out. He runs the team like he can't see past his nose.

I think only you and I remember that Polian was partially responsible for not only Maccagnan, but for Bubba Gump Bowltite as well...

 

[ZachEY]

51 minutes ago, rangerous said:

o rly.  given the choice of going into last season with fitz, geno, or petty at qb and fitz would've got the vote, hands down.  forte promised to give the jets some better pass receiving out of the back field and clady was still an okay tackle when healthy.  

That's an argument, for sure.  But, there were plenty of people who were vocally against these signings, especially trading a pick for Clady.

[ZachEY]

3 minutes ago, ASH1962 said:

I think only you and I remember that Polian was partially responsible for not only Maccagnan, but for Bubba Gump Bowltite as well...

 

You're still giving yourself rep for making bigoted posts?

[jetspenguin]

1 minute ago, gEYno said:

You're still giving yourself rep for making bigoted posts?

you see it too huh? 

[slats]

Can't argue with any of the cuts from a production:salary standpoint, as Polian says, but that's the easy part of the job. It's an Idzikian compliment to refer to this somehow as a good job. I want to really get behind Maccagnan, this is the type of guy I wanted as a GM, but it's hard to get around the fact that three years into this regime the team has arguably the worst roster in the NFL with no real answers at the most important positions on the field (QB, killer of QBs). And also, as T0m points out, many of these contracts that he cut were his own creations. 

Best spin I can put on it is that they fully recognize that the "competitive rebuild" model of last season was a complete failure and that they're now -two years late- hitting the reset button. But do you do that by drafting safeties in the first two rounds and signing Josh McCown to a $6M deal? That probably wouldn't be my blueprint. 

I'm taking a deep breath and a wait & see approach because I think it's very possible that Maccagnan and (to perhaps a lesser extent) Bowles have some guarantees regarding their jobs next year. If it's a true tank job, and the Jets land a franchise QB in next year's draft, much will be forgiven. But it's gonna be an ugly ride this season. 

[Skeptable]

1 hour ago, dbatesman said:

You guys finally get religion on process over results, and it's in the context of defending Mike ******* Maccagnan. I love this place.

Because of 1 years results we should fire everyone. Ok sorry that you live on that little patience 

[ZachEY]

3 minutes ago, Skeptable said:

Because of 1 years results we should fire everyone. Ok sorry that you live on that little patience 

We are heading into year 3, not year 2.  We still have no QB, no pass rusher, no CB, no RB, no #1 WR, no LT, but we're highly invested in the ever important ILB position (where we still aren't good) and at the equally important safety position.  But, it's all good because Robbie Anderson.

[BurnleyJet]

6 hours ago, T0mShane said:

Pretty fun now Polian defends the veteran cuts because they weren't playing up to their salaries, but doesn't point out that, except for Mangold, the ink was still wet on each of the contracts that Mike Maccagnan handed them in the first place.

 

This goes back to that anonymous quote regarding the Maccagnan hire, where someone who knew him said the job was going to be too big for him. I think that's really, really been a spot on analysis as it's played out. He runs the team like he can't see past his nose.

Not totally true, Decker was signed by Idzik, Revis no one knew he would fall off he cliff so fast. Marshall asked to be cut, Jets wanted to extend him. Decker coming off IR, with bad injuries. Folk no brainer, 4m for a Kicker on the tanking team. Gilchrest JAG Free Safety, coming off IR.

This was needed, and we all know 2017 is going to be rough, so lets do the TANK right for once.

[HessStation]

I support what Mac is doing.

[kdels62]

9 minutes ago, BurnleyJet said:

Not totally true, Decker was signed by Idzik, Revis no one knew he would fall off he cliff so fast. Marshall asked to be cut, Jets wanted to extend him. Decker coming off IR, with bad injuries. Folk no brainer, 4m for a Kicker on the tanking team. Gilchrest JAG Free Safety, coming off IR.

This was needed, and we all know 2017 is going to be rough, so lets do the TANK right for once.

Why would we extend Marshall if we're going into a rebuild? That's bad planning. It's good planning if the extension was a "take less money or leave" offer. Gilchrist was signed by Macc so that failure is on him. Revis was still old and needed a partner on the opposite side of him. Also Macc signed Skrine and then renegotiated his contract making him uncuttable in order to resign Fitz. 

I'm okay with Macc because I kinda like his scouting team's eye for talent, even with Devin Smith's failure. Trading up for Shell, picking up Peake, Marshall and Anderson and passing on Lynch all work for me. If the team is bad this year but position groups look stronger I'll be happy to keep Macc for another year. If Hack or Petty lead this team to mediocrity then we should be happy to give Macc another year. If the team is bad and units fail spectacularly or the upside seems minimal then we should dump Macc asap.

[rex-n-effect]

In some ways this is the first year he's been able to strip down the team and build. In 2015 he had to come in and spend a lot of money quickly on a team that had basically nothing working. In 2016 the decision was made (either by Woody or Macc) to roll the dice on the 2015 roster a second year. The team has some foundation in younger players from Macc's first two drafts. Now it's time for him to start putting pieces together. A sh*tty season this year has to come with the promise of a serviceable QB and a strong roster in 2018. 

Macc is trying to build a system for long term success and that's not going to happen overnight. I can give him some slack that he has tried to stick to that plan when it would have been easier to make moves harder to criticize; however, he can't keep stacking WR and defensive players forever. Not with a declining record every year.

[jeremy2020]

5 hours ago, LionelRichie said:

If nothing else Macc was brought here to draft and 3 years into the journey the talent on this team is piss poor.  There is no one in Jetsland rooting more for Hack than Maccagnan.  

but aren't you aware that the Jets have like 30 Mac drafted players on the roster?! He's obv amazing. 

[Skeptable]

1 hour ago, gEYno said:

We are heading into year 3, not year 2.  We still have no QB, no pass rusher, no CB, no RB, no #1 WR, no LT, but we're highly invested in the ever important ILB position (where we still aren't good) and at the equally important safety position.  But, it's all good because Robbie Anderson.

The band-aid didn't work... so they ripped it off... Jets have a potential QB in Hack (If not draft next year), No pass rusher (enough money to buy one next year), Claiborne is a #1 easy and easily top 10 in the league (but he has to stay healthy), Powell is an excellent RB (when utilized), Quincy was developing but I am not ready to say we don't have any WR at the position until we see what these rookies and sophomores do... I agree we don't have any 'names' but that doesn't matter, Let's see what Greene's intensity brings before you write off 2nd and 3rd year players, and safety will be a strength... Ihave no issue with that... Robbie Anderson may not even be top 4 on the team... 

[BurnleyJet]

1 hour ago, kdels62 said:

Why would we extend Marshall if we're going into a rebuild? That's bad planning. It's good planning if the extension was a "take less money or leave" offer. Gilchrist was signed by Macc so that failure is on him. Revis was still old and needed a partner on the opposite side of him. Also Macc signed Skrine and then renegotiated his contract making him uncuttable in order to resign Fitz. 

I'm okay with Macc because I kinda like his scouting team's eye for talent, even with Devin Smith's failure. Trading up for Shell, picking up Peake, Marshall and Anderson and passing on Lynch all work for me. If the team is bad this year but position groups look stronger I'll be happy to keep Macc for another year. If Hack or Petty lead this team to mediocrity then we should be happy to give Macc another year. If the team is bad and units fail spectacularly or the upside seems minimal then we should dump Macc asap.

I don't know how much of the plans have been changed or influenced by Woody J?

[jetspenguin]

 

[kdels62]

3 minutes ago, BurnleyJet said:

I don't know how much of the plans have been changed or influenced by Woody J?

If Woody is telling Macc to blow it up and go young then I'm thinking that woody finally learned something about building a team.

[Sperm Edwards]

7 hours ago, T0mShane said:

What are the good moves?

Carpenter (a player he didn't even want).

Fitzpatrick turned out to be a good pickup for the 2015 season, regardless of how much that season was vastly overrated.

The only other one was accepting the offer when Chicago dangled Marshall to him for next to nothing. But even that good move soured just 1 season later.

Also...wait, actually that's it.

[Sperm Edwards]

4 hours ago, jetspenguin said:

I'd say this is the most understated and underrated thing mentioned about Mac...I personally love the way he structures a lot of the contracts. There is usually a way to get out of it early if it doesnt work out. This is the NFL and some of these guys will get hurt, get lazy or get old. It happens but so far unless I am forgetting some..there are very few contracts that he give out that are uncuttable within a few years. 

Maccagnan doesn't structure contracts. Nice try.

The team as a whole - generally that means Davidson, not Maccagnan - doesn't generally structure contracts any better or worse than anyone else, since the standard FA contract contains 1-2 years of guarantees.  

List all the NFL's FA contracts that aren't cuttable within a few years. 

[UnitedWhofans]

5 hours ago, varjet said:

Mac is a good guy to have in your organization.  The Jets need a bigger football director other than Woody.  Woody acts like the Jets Coughlin   I would rather have Coughlin  

People are saying that the Jets beat the Jags this year   I am not too sure about that   Our offense will struggle to do anything against them  

 

Now that is a more sensible suggestion. If you want to keep Maccagnan as a head scout. That might be plausible

[kdels62]

11 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Maccagnan doesn't structure contracts. Nice try.

The team as a whole - generally that means Davidson, not Maccagnan - doesn't generally structure contracts any better or worse than anyone else, since the standard FA contract contains 1-2 years of guarantees.  

List all the NFL's FA contracts that aren't cuttable within a few years. 

Tannenbaum was genuinely great at structuring contracts. Macc just does the expected. I think a big reason Idzik gets no slack while Macc gets some is that Idzik kept Bradway and all that old Tannenbaum personnel. Macc's first draft was very underwhelming but was done on a time crunch with scouting from that old crew. Macc's upheaval of that crew has led to promising drafts with players we don't know yet. We'll have a better idea after this year and you'll be left with few Macc apologists if it doesn't work. Pro-Macc sentiment is basically just people not trying to make snap judgements and holding out hope.

[UnitedWhofans]

2 minutes ago, kdels62 said:

Tannenbaum was genuinely great at structuring contracts. Macc just does the expected. I think a big reason Idzik gets no slack while Macc gets some is that Idzik kept Bradway and all that old Tannenbaum personnel. Macc's first draft was very underwhelming but was done on a time crunch with scouting from that old crew. Macc's upheaval of that crew has led to promising drafts with players we don't know yet. We'll have a better idea after this year and you'll be left with few Macc apologists if it doesn't work. Pro-Macc sentiment is basically just people not trying to make snap judgements and holding out hope.

I am a Maccagnan supporter as you know. I went on record of saying that he needed to nail this draft or his job was in danger. And it looks like (right now) that he did indeed nail this draft.

You are going to have people who just hate MAccagnan whatever he does. Sperm, dBatesman etc. They just dont like him at all

[Joejet]

8 hours ago, T0mShane said:

What are the good moves?

Definitely Carpenter, and in my opinion Marshall was a good move for the time he was here.  He has signed a number of good undrafted free agents such as Anderson and Jalin Marshall, as well as Thomas the DL.  I think time will show that his drafts will be solid at worst, and very good at best.  As I stated before he has had his busts but all GMs do.  I'm not one of the MAC cheerleaders but I also don't hate him and look for ways to trash him.