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Josh Allen

T0mShane

By T0mShane
in NY Jets Forum

Josh Allen   

176 members have voted

  1. 1. Your thoughts on Josh Allen


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T0mShane

T0mShane

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4 minutes ago, SBBound said:

You just cherry picked one minor point I made - yet completed disregarded the points about the HOF QB's and the fact that he played at ND with very poor talent at WR.

How many of his receivers will be in the NFL next year?

How many of Carson Wentz’s or Ben Roethlisberger’s receivers made the NFL? 

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T0mShane

T0mShane

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Just now, Thai Jet said:

Wow ! One pass each in a workout. Why not show the actual Senior Bowl game tape ? Whole different swtory.

Why even post stuff like this, it's beneath you ?

If you’re going off the Senior Bowl, then Kyle Lauletta is the number one pick in the draft.

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Thai Jet

Thai Jet

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16 minutes ago, flgreen said:

When the NCAA season started, and everyone was doing the suck for Sam dance, I strongly felt Allen, by far, was going to be the 1st pick in this draft.  Actually missed a lot of sleep watching his first 6 games this year.  Didn't go so well.  Started watching Mayfield at that point. 

Not sure what to expect out of Allen in the NFL.  If the Jets take him, I'll be holding my breath 

Let's not forget Wyoming's O line sucked this year as did their early season running attack. Allen lost 3 of his WR's to the NFL so he was throwing to young, raw wideouts. It showed early in the season with dropped passes and alligator arm attempts.

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SBBound

SBBound

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5 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

There is no metric more predictive of a QB being awful than PA% (Pac Approval Percentage)

Can you actually show me some data that that PercComp % metric is the best predictor of NFL suckdom?

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SBBound

SBBound

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5 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

How many of Carson Wentz’s or Ben Roethlisberger’s receivers made the NFL? 

I don't know...I have no way of doing a comparison of the quality of QB's across those three universities at different years - nor do I care. You still have not addressed my earlier points.

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Larz

Larz

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2 minutes ago, SBBound said:

Are you referencing Josh Allen at a Div II school? I believe Wyoming is Div I

Wyoming is FBS and they won the conference title with Allen 

Wentz coach recruited Allen to Wyoming after seeing him play at a DII school 

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Pac

Pac

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8 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

There is no metric more predictive of a QB being awful than PA% (Pac Approval Percentage)

I predicted the Fitz debacle and Mccown success story pretty accurately thank you very much.

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Larz

Larz

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Just now, Grandy said:

No to Josh Allen. He had the worst accuracy out of all the QB's and it's not even close. I also hope the "He had a bad team" group realizes his receivers had the lowest drop rate of any of the top QB's.

Drop rate isn't everything. Throw in hero balls and poor separation too. 

His personal workout with the Jets and his pro day will be big for the kid 

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Sonny Werblin

Sonny Werblin

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19 minutes ago, SBBound said:

Accuracy of a QB can be due to many things; inconsistent technique, mental lapses, poor physical ability, weak receivers, throwing the ball away when OL can consistently block. I have not really watched  Josh Allen play this year, aside from whatever tape I could cobble together from youtube etc. In looking at his incompletions, many of them were receiver drops, forcing the ball to apparently overcome lack of receiver play making ability, and perhaps inconsistent footwork. His 56% completion rate is certainly not ideal but he looks like a completely differently player than Hack - Hack had many throws every game in college that were downright pitiful. Did not get the same feel with Allen. Just take a look at the career completion perception of three HOF QB's:

Montana - 52% https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/joe-montana-1.html

Favre - 52.4% https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/brett-favre-1.html

Jim Kelly - 55.6% https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/jim-kelly-2.html

Dan Marino - 57.6% https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/dan-marino-1.html

 

Am I missing something with this viewpoint if that % completion rate must be at 60% or a QB is doomed.? I feel pretty strongly that if he was playing at a spread offense in Oklahoma his #'s would be much higher

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Different era. Those completion percentages we're good for the college game when those guys played.

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Jimmy 2 Times

Jimmy 2 Times

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If they pick him, then i'm all for him.  Hell, i'm still blindly supporting Hack.  The guy's physical tools are drool worthy.  Watching him run (as awkward as that looked a the combine) and throw lasers all over the field are breath taking.

 

But, I think I prefer Mayfield if Rosen and Darnold are off the board.  

Personally, i'm glad my job doesn't depend on the choice, he's tough to pass on.

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T0mShane

T0mShane

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1 minute ago, SBBound said:

I don't know...I have no way of doing a comparison of the quality of QB's across those three universities at different years - nor do I care. You still have not addressed my earlier points.

You can’t find out if any of Carson Wentz’s receivers are in the NFL but you want me to explain why Joe Montana completing 52% of his passes for the 1978 Notre Dame Fighting Irish isn’t relevant in 2018? 

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dbatesman

dbatesman

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18 minutes ago, SBBound said:

You just cherry picked one minor point I made - yet completed disregarded the points about the HOF QB's and the fact that he played at ND with very poor talent at WR.

How many of his receivers will be in the NFL next year?

How many of Kent Myers’s will? Brett Rypien’s? Marcus McMaryion’s? Nick Stevens’s? Dru Brown’s? Ty Gangi’s? Christian Chapman’s?

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Sonny Werblin

Sonny Werblin

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Here's my view, if you are not "successful" at playing QB at the college level, the chances you will be successful at the pro level are very low. I watched many of Allen's games. Were his teammates not very good? It certainly appeared that they were not. And Allen did nothing to make them better, or himself better.

Might he become a great NFL QB. It's possible I guess, but why use a top 3 pick on a guy who could not succeed at the college level even though he has all the tools in spades? 

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Sonny Werblin

Sonny Werblin

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5 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

You can’t find out if any of Carson Wentz’s receivers are in the NFL but you want me to explain why Joe Montana completing 52% of his passes for the 1978 Notre Dame Fighting Irish isn’t relevant in 2018? 

Because 52% completion rate was OKfor a college QB in 1978. And mantana was selected in the 3d round! Not in the top 3.

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HawkeyeJet

HawkeyeJet

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1 hour ago, MDL_JET said:

Can anyone share what he does well. Any good YouTube video breakdowns of why the team around him was at fault? Trying to learn a little more then just that he’s got one hell of an arm. 

I'm not sharing this advocating him(I'll  be disappointed if we end up with him), but I think the Iowa game I was at is a perfect sample of everything that factors in with him.  I've included a link with all his throws.  I was at the game and came away thinking he had a long way to go, but also thinking Iowa completely dominated them physically. Iowa was a slightly above average Big Ten team this year.  I have since rewatched this clip probably 5 times. I think it offers it all.

It shows quite a few throws that are beautiful.  Shows quite a few that are cringe worthy.  It shows his great athletic ability.  It shows how bad his supporting cast is(at least 3 throwaways due to immediate pressure and 3 drops).

 

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redlichtie

redlichtie

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12 minutes ago, Sonny Werblin said:

Different era. Those completion percentages we're good for the college game when those guys played.

True but you have to remember the greater prevalence of pro-style offenses back then. There were no spread or air raid systems and to the best of my knowledge nobody was putting up the insane video game numbers in those days. The QB’s in recent times that most closely correlate to the likes of Kelly,Marino etc are Stafford, Ryan and Cutler, all played in more pro-style offenses and certainly not in the spread. Allen and Rosen both took snaps under centre, utilised play action and operated in an offense closer to that of the guys I mentioned and as a result completion %ages were less gaudy than guys like Mayfiek, Falk and Rudolph.

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Jimmy 2 Times

Jimmy 2 Times

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I just ran some numbers on Allen.  

If the guy completed just one more pass per game (11) he's at 60.4 completion %.   

If he completes 1.5 more passes a game he's at 62% and the runaway number 1 pick.

Is it unreasonable to think he can't improve enough to complete one more pass a game now that it'll be football all day instead of classes?

 

Another question:  If Baker Mayfield was 6'4 is he the runaway top pick?

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Augustiniak

Augustiniak

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1 minute ago, HawkeyeJet said:

I'm not sharing this advocating him(I'll  be disappointed if we end up with him), but I think the Iowa game I was at is a perfect sample of everything the factors in with him.  I've included a link with all his throws.  I was at the game and came away thinking he had a long way to go, but also thinking Iowa completely dominated them. Iowa was a slightly above average Big Ten.  I have since rewatched this clip probably 5 times. I think it offers it all.

It shows quite a few throws that are beautiful.  Shows quite a few that are cringe worthy.  It shows his great athletic ability.  It shows how bad his supporting cast is(at least 3 throwaways due to immediate pressure and 3 drops).

 

He's a better fit with cleveland and i think we'll all exhale loudly when they take him first.  They can sit him most of the year.  Cleveland's decision probably comes down to darnold vs allen.

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CTM

CTM

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30 minutes ago, Pac said:

It's 1 statistic. 

Many of the guys lambasting him have never seen him throw a pass.

Its actually starts and completion %, and I like the version controlled for opponents defense, but either do a better job of weeding out the losers than the Macgacks of the world 

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usanyj

usanyj

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21 minutes ago, Thai Jet said:

Let's not forget Wyoming's O line sucked this year as did their early season running attack. Allen lost 3 of his WR's to the NFL so he was throwing to young, raw wideouts. It showed early in the season with dropped passes and alligator arm attempts.

As a big penn state fan, this was my argument for hack... because it’s the same argument, he lost Allen Robinson and Jesse James and he had a terrible o line.but he was the number one high school recruit and he was running the patriot offense under Bill O’Brien at 18. And doing so successfully. I loved hack and was pumped when we got him. Fast forward two years and I’m not willing to draft hack 2.0. We need a ready made guy day one because of who the coaching staff is

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jetsons

jetsons

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6 minutes ago, Jimmy 2 Times said:

I just ran some numbers on Allen.  

If the guy completed just one more pass per game (11) he's at 60.4 completion %.   

If he completes 1.5 more passes a game he's at 62% and the runaway number 1 pick.

Is it unreasonable to think he can't improve enough to complete one more pass a game now that it'll be football all day instead of classes?

 

Another question:  If Baker Mayfield was 6'4 is he the runaway top pick?

"if" is Thee BIGGEST word of All.

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