Baker Mayfield meeting with Jets Brass(yesterday and today.)

[Pcola]

14 minutes ago, Bruce Harper said:

 

Now we’re subtracting height to support your argument?

I can’t see him wilting under the pressure. I think he’s the toughest of the bunch.


Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

 

I’m honestly not sure what you are referring to with subtracting height?  I think my argument is pretty clear.

He is an anomaly.  Does he buck 35 years of NFL trends?  The fact that people keep referring to 1970’s football when comparing him is laughable because we are not talking about the same thing.

[Patriot Killa]

52 minutes ago, Villain The Foe said:

That's hard to say because many of the comparisons are specified as "NFL comparisons". Folks who are comparing Mayfield to Manziel are doing so not because of his ability on the field, which is the general nature of the comparison, but they're doing it based on perceived personality and height. 

I personally agree with Walterfootball's NFL Comparison which is a Rich Man's version of Jeff Garcia. Folks who are comparing Baker/Manziel are mostly being lazy or following the leader. At first glance when you see him he looks alot like Johnny Manziel used to look while at A&M, however, having been able to watch OU games for the past 2 seasons the guy is a much better passer than Manziel...it's not even a debate. And if that's the primary skill of a quarterback then how can he be compared to a guy who's has never even been on the same level of quarterbacking coming out of college or even in the Pros?

There are traits, things that may remind folks of Manziel, sure, but they're not similar in quarterbacking, they're just not. 

Not only that but Manziel has a very lazy and light work ethic. Baker does what he has to at all times. 

People hear the term work ethic and don’t really take into consideration how important that really is..especially for QB’s 

[Pcola]

1 minute ago, Patriot Killa said:

Not only that but Manziel has a very lazy and light work ethic. Baker does what he has to at all times. 

People hear the term work ethic and don’t really take into consideration how important that really is..especially for QB’s 

Absolutely true and this is where none of us have a clue about these guys.  Leinart was an elite prospect from a fan’s perspective.  But we weren’t there during the interviews to gauge the guy’s need for the NFL.  He obviously had other priorities.

Its probably harder on the GMs today because of how well the Agents coach these guys up and perform damage control on their images.

[jgb]

57 minutes ago, JiF said:

 

I personally dont think height is an issue.

[Patriot Killa]

2 minutes ago, Pcola said:

Absolutely true and this is where none of us have a clue about these guys.  Leinart was an elite prospect from a fan’s perspective.  But we weren’t there during the interviews to gauge the guy’s need for the NFL.  He obviously had other priorities.

Its probably harder on the GMs today because of how well the Agents coach these guys up and perform damage control on their images.

Exactly! Mayfield just has this transaparent kind of personality on top of that. Probably really has blown away a lot of GM’s without PR help. Kid is all about the game and winning. You really need that in a franchise guy. I think Mayfield is an excellent option and has the attitude to demand more out of his teammates every day out there. He could potentially flip this organization around if proves to be as advertised in college.

[jgb]

2 hours ago, Villain The Foe said:

Show me footage of games where height has been an issue for Baker Mayfield performing on the field and I'll convert right now. 

I dont need anything else but that. 

While he's at it, can we ask him to find footage where length has been an issue? I need it for uh a research project.

[Augustiniak]

7 minutes ago, Patriot Killa said:

Exactly! Mayfield just has this transaparent kind of personality on top of that. Probably really has blown away a lot of GM’s without PR help. Kid is all about the game and winning. You really need that in a franchise guy. I think Mayfield is an excellent option and has the attitude to demand more out of his teammates every day out there. He could potentially flip this organization around if proves to be as advertised in college.

if he were an inch taller the browns would take him first.  and maybe in other drafts, they would, but with darnold and allen there, the browns have other options.  

[FTL Jet Fan]

The Dolphins are the team that scares me the most along with the Bills. Tanny is the type of sneaky MF that would jump us. 

[Augustiniak]

1 minute ago, FTL Jet Fan said:

The Dolphins are the team that scares me the most along with the Bills. Tanny is the type of sneaky MF that would jump us. 

agreed but the giants are trading that far back.  even if the bills got to 8 and then tried to trade to 2, who are the giants taking at 8 after the qbs, barkley, chubb and nelson are gone?  this is a big problem for teams trying to trade up, and why the main team to worry about is denver.  the giants can slide to 5 and still get barkley or chubb or nelson.  and denver may steal mayfield from us.  but still, moving from 5 to 2 is costly, at least an early 2nd this year and another good pick. 

[freestater]

1 hour ago, JiF said:

 

Sssssshhhhhhh it's ok honey.  You've gone a little wacko but I still love you.

That's weird.  someone told me the exact same thing the last time i argued over a single inch...

[Pcola]

48 minutes ago, Patriot Killa said:

Exactly! Mayfield just has this transaparent kind of personality on top of that. Probably really has blown away a lot of GM’s without PR help. Kid is all about the game and winning. You really need that in a franchise guy. I think Mayfield is an excellent option and has the attitude to demand more out of his teammates every day out there. He could potentially flip this organization around if proves to be as advertised in college.

He definitely could be.  But I don’t want to over rate the “rah rah” aspect of his game because, like Sanchez, he doesn’t come out of the gates showing everyone how good he is, the vets will tune him out.

IMO, we already have the team cheer leader in Adams.  We really don’t need anyone on offense to do it until we get our diva #1 WR.  The QB needs to keep everything in perspective.  Nothing should be too big or too small.  He needs to be a calming focal point during high stress situations.  

Having Mayfield’s adrenaline going into overload in the fourth qtr game that the Jets need to win isn’t going to help the players around him.

[Villain The Foe]

1 hour ago, Pcola said:

Are you saying the game that Montana played in 1979 is the same game we are watching in 2018?

I found an article in Business Insider that had the average size of the NFL OL from the 1970’s at 6’3  255.  In 2015, it was 6’5 312.  I’m pretty certain the DL would have similar results.

So basically Joe Montana would need to be 2” taller to perform like he did back then.

So for everyone that says height is not a problem, how come there has only been 1 QB drafted in the top 10 in the past 35 drafts that were under 6’2?

Serious question.

And why there are currently only two QBs that have sustained success in the NFL (Brees & Wilson.)

Look, I don’t hate Mayfield, I would run to the podium with him name on the card if Darnold or Rosen are gone.  But he is not in the same class as those two QBs.  In fact, 10 years from now, he won’t have the career that Darnold, Rosen, Barkley, or Chubb has.  The reason he is a top 5 pick is because of the amount of desperation in the league now.

This is the problem, not with you specifically but collectively for those who dont want to accept the facts but continue to move the goal post. Let me give you examples. 

1. It's stated that short QB's typically dont succeed in this league. You show them Brees and Wilson and then the response is "They're the exception to the rule. 

2. You provide over 30 players that are within the range of Baker Mayfield's height throughout the years in order to show that it's not "the exception" and to further show that these players cover every generation of the NFL so obviously the've always been part of the league, then suddenly folks talk about different era's and Joe Montana in 1979 when Montana was just a rookie in 79 and played into the mid 90's before retiring. 

3. In this very thread we heard the stats of John Elway and Brett Favre....yet I dont see you or anyone else stopping to say "That's a different era". Of course not. 

 

Look, it's not about you hating Mayfield, it is about biases though, and im watching folks do it. You cant say that guys like Mayfield arent likely to succeed, then when presented with Brees/Wilson say "That's the exception" then when presented with HOF'ers/MVP's etc over the decades (over 30 players in total) then say "that's a different era". The era isnt the point, Im proving that they're "not the exception", which is your folks argument.

 There are simply more QB's that are taller and alot of this goes back to high school when these coaches are picking these players to be quarterbacks. But this doesnt mean that these shorter QB's that make it to this level cant ball. Everytime a fact is presented folks who claim not to be a hater explain it away. What's the point in presenting the facts then?

Also , I've seen Joe Montana play and Im an 80's baby and I've watched him play and dominate in the same west coast offense that's being ran today. The era is different only because there's more spread concepts being used, but the WCO is alive and well in this league. You telling me that Joe Montana couldnt run the WCO in today's game? Folks overall need to stop with the excuses, because every time the provide an excuse in order to dismiss facts it's hard to believe that hating isnt at play. 

[SouthernJet]

On 4/10/2018 at 6:43 PM, bitonti said:

Here at JN it's just called sex 

Correct. The Mod Lounge has no rules and they are quite the bunch

 

[Pcola]

2 minutes ago, Villain The Foe said:

This is the problem, not with you specifically but collectively for those who dont want to accept the facts but continue to move the goal post. Let me give you examples. 

1. It's stated that short QB's typically dont succeed in this league. You show them Brees and Wilson and then the response is "They're the exception to the rule. 

2. You provide over 30 players that are within the range of Baker Mayfield's height throughout the years in order to show that it's not "the exception" and to further show that these players cover every generation of the NFL so obviously the've always been part of the league, then suddenly folks talk about different era's and Joe Montana in 1979 when Montana was just a rookie in 79 and played into the mid 90's before retiring. 

3. In this very thread we heard the stats of John Elway and Brett Favre....yet I dont see you or anyone else stopping to say "That's a different era". Of course not. 

 

Look, it's not about you hating Mayfield, it is about biases though, and im watching folks do it. You cant say that guys like Mayfield arent likely to succeed, then when presented with Brees/Wilson say "That's the exception" then when presented with HOF'ers/MVP's etc over the decades (over 30 players in total) then say "that's a different era". The era isnt the point, Im proving that they're "not the exception", which is your folks argument.

 There are simply more QB's that are taller and alot of this goes back to high school when these coaches are picking these players to be quarterbacks. But this doesnt mean that these shorter QB's that make it to this level cant ball. Everytime a fact is presented folks who claim not to be a hater explain it away. What's the point in presenting the facts then?

Also , I've seen Joe Montana play and Im an 80's baby and I've watched him play and dominate in the same west coast offense that's being ran today. The era is different only because there's more spread concepts being used, but the WCO is alive and well in this league. You telling me that Joe Montana couldnt run the WCO in today's game? Folks overall need to stop with the excuses, because every time the provide an excuse in order to dismiss facts it's hard to believe that hating isnt at play. 

All I am saying is that there is a reason that 2/32 teams, maybe 3/32 teams if Keenum is 6’1, so you are talking about less than 10% of legit starting QBs are “below the Mendoza line” so to speak.  

Its not only his height but the fact that he hasn’t played in a pro style offense, he’s no where near as athletic as Brees or Wilson, and Brees at least has an offensive genius in Payton running that team.  

Can Baker Mayfield be a star in the league.  Yes.  Absolutely.  Will he need an elite offensive system with a legit #1 WR, superior OL and an effective running game?  Absolutely.  I don’t see him putting the offense on his back and succeeding.  Certainly not with the offensive chips we have.  Not with this CS.

I see Rosen and Darnold having the ability to come right in and run a pro style offense we, having the right attitude to be the face of the franchise, and have the organization follow them to success.

I loved Mayfield at OK.  He was possibly the greatest college QB I have ever watched and I watched most of his games.  Just the lingerin questions about his height, his character, and his offensive system, make him a little less of a prospect than Rosen or Darnold.  Just my opinion.  Not trying to convince anyone. And if Darnold and Rosen go 1-2, I’ll love the pick.

[SouthernJet]

i think he has chance to be Russel Wilson Jr.

see field nicely, and even better while scrambling&throwing on run Like Russel. when u can get out of pocket and teams KNOW you can hit folks in stride, it makes CB come in...

[Villain The Foe]

2 hours ago, jgb said:

While he's at it, can we ask him to find footage where length has been an issue? I need it for uh a research project.

I've seen 6'7 Mike Glennon have more batted passes at the LOS than Baker Mayfield. Off the top of my head I remember 1 or 2 batted passes in an Ohio State game....and that's in two years of watching him. I also remember him throwing side arm to pass around a blitzing defender in order to hit a guy in the flat. 

I think that what im asking for in general is fair (not just from Jif). If folks are making his height such a big deal, then there should be a TON of footage out there showing him having issues because of it

@Pcola Just said that Olineman are larger today then they were decades ago. Okay, well where are these lineman coming from? Arent they coming from College today? Well, that means that Mayfield had to be playing with these guys right? let me cut to the chase. 

Based on this link here: http://www.businessinsider.com/nfl-offensive-lineman-are-big-2011-10?IR=T  The average height of offensive lineman is 6'5. Lets look at Mayfield's Oline at OU. 

 

LT. Orlando Brown is 6'7, 

LG. Ben Powers is 6'4

C. Erick Wren is 6'1

RG. Dru Samia is 6'5

RT. Bobby Evans is 6'4

Average height at Oklahoma. 6'4

Tallest 6'7

Shortest 6'1

 

Lets compare that to the NY Jets

LT. Kelvin Beachum is 6'3

LG. James Carpenter is 6'5

C. Travis Swanson & Spencer Long are both 6'5

RG. Brian Winters is 6'4

RT. Brandon Shell is 6'5

Average height at the Jets. 6'4 

Tallest 6'5

Shortest 6'3

 

As we can see, the offensive line that Mayfield played behind is on average around the same size as the NY Jet team. It's not like Mayfield is playing with Offensive lineman from the 1930's. Orlando Brown if im correct was the tallest guy at the combine this year, that was Mayfields Left Tackle, and next to him is Ben Powers who is 6'4. I never felt like Mayfield had a problem throwing to his left because he couldnt see over these lineman. 

 

I am simply asking folks to show proof. I dont want to hear about his height being the exception to the rule, I dont want to hear about different era's or Olineman being small decades ago as if Mayfield's Oline was small. 

How about folks show some facts. 

[Beerfish]

 

[Patriot Killa]

1 hour ago, Pcola said:

He definitely could be.  But I don’t want to over rate the “rah rah” aspect of his game because, like Sanchez, he doesn’t come out of the gates showing everyone how good he is, the vets will tune him out.

IMO, we already have the team cheer leader in Adams.  We really don’t need anyone on offense to do it until we get our diva #1 WR.  The QB needs to keep everything in perspective.  Nothing should be too big or too small.  He needs to be a calming focal point during high stress situations.  

Having Mayfield’s adrenaline going into overload in the fourth qtr game that the Jets need to win isn’t going to help the players around him.

Agreed. I really meant he can spark the team up more than anything. Y’all know I’m a Rosen advocate but this is probably the biggest thing I put Mayfield over Rosen with..his ability to demand the best out of his guys in a big way. No so much “rah-rah” just very vocal. I know that leadership can come in different measures and forms but I feel like what Mayfield does Is more effective.

[flgreen]

NFL scout: Jets get best QB in draft with Baker Mayfield

Even with the No. 3 pick of the 2018 draft, the Jets have a chance to pick the top QB in the class, according to one former scout.

By 

Kristian Dyer

 Published : April 12, 2018

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Baker Mayfield following his accepting the Maxwell Award from the Maxwell Football Club as the nation's top college player. (John Hardcastle, Maxwell Football Club)

•  

There is no certainty at the top of the NFL Draft, this much is clear as the draft lacks a clear-cut No. 1 prospect. But in the eyes of one former NFL scout, there is no denying what the New York Jets should do.

They should draft a quarterback and in particular one quarterback. A prospect, this experienced scout said, who is the best quarterback in the draft.

Former NFL scout Dan Shonka, the general manager and national scout for OurLads.com, said that the Jets should definitely go with one college quarterback in particular. And it doesn’t seem to matter to Shonka, who was a highly-respected scout for the Philadelphia Eagles among several other NFL teams, what other quarterbacks will be there. His message is simple.

 

 

 

 

 

 

And unchanging: Draft Baker Mayfield.

/05/18

 

“Baker Mayfield is the best quarterback in the 2018 draft,” Shonka told Metro about who he thinks the Jets should take with their first-round pick.

 

 

 

“I believe they will take Mayfield.”

Shonka’s assessment for OurLads.com is glowing about Mayfield. The Oklahoma quarterback won the Heisman as well as the Maxwell Award this past fall after throwing for 4,340 yards with 41 touchdowns and just five interceptions.

That certainly uncomplicates things for the Jets as Mayfield in all likelihood will be there at No. 3 for the Jets, who moved up in the draft last month in a trade with the Indianapolis Colts. The move was done clearly and squarely to select a quarterback, something that appears obvious as the Jets signed quarterback Teddy Bridgewater to a one-year deal in free agency and brought back veteran Josh McCown on a similar one-year deal.

Stop-gaps, it appears, so as to be able to develop whoever they select in the first round. Bridge quarterbacks so as not to rush whoever they select such as Mayfield.

Part of Shonka’s report of Mayfield from OurLads.com:

“Quick decisions in his throws. He not only has arm talent but arm strength as well. When on the radar gun at the Combine his peak speed had very little drop off to the catch point. Only Josh Allen who clocked 62 mph had more RPMs than Mayfield’s 60 MPH. He has a quick compact delivery with strong wrist snap. Always ready to throw. Ball is high where he cuts it loose so there is no wasted motion. He throws a tight spiral with velocity and an overhand delivery. He can make every throw - short, intermediate, and long. He puts the ball on the receiver. His feet are always alive in the pocket. Good balance up on toes, can throw over the defense with timing and anticipation. Hangs in the pocket under a heavy rush. Good footwork, balance, and pocket vision. Slides away from pressure. Has a natural feel in the passing game and the sense to read the play quickly as it develops. Poised, tough, and a clutch player. Can take a hit. Moves the team in clutch situations, especially when the game is on the line. Athletic enough as a runner.”  

[Villain The Foe]

55 minutes ago, Pcola said:

All I am saying is that there is a reason that 2/32 teams, maybe 3/32 teams if Keenum is 6’1, so you are talking about less than 10% of legit starting QBs are “below the Mendoza line” so to speak.  

Its not only his height but the fact that he hasn’t played in a pro style offense, he’s no where near as athletic as Brees or Wilson, and Brees at least has an offensive genius in Payton running that team.  

Can Baker Mayfield be a star in the league.  Yes.  Absolutely.  Will he need an elite offensive system with a legit #1 WR, superior OL and an effective running game?  Absolutely.  I don’t see him putting the offense on his back and succeeding.  Certainly not with the offensive chips we have.  Not with this CS.

I see Rosen and Darnold having the ability to come right in and run a pro style offense we, having the right attitude to be the face of the franchise, and have the organization follow them to success.

I loved Mayfield at OK.  He was possibly the greatest college QB I have ever watched and I watched most of his games.  Just the lingerin questions about his height, his character, and his offensive system, make him a little less of a prospect than Rosen or Darnold.  Just my opinion.  Not trying to convince anyone. And if Darnold and Rosen go 1-2, I’ll love the pick.

There probably is a reason, however, pound for pound the best QB of all time who's still in the league registers at 6'0. There's quite a few QB's labeled at 6'2 but when measured in meters you'll notice that they're just below 6'2, that includes Aaron Rodgers. And I bring that up for this reason, you once again are doing this convenient numbers thing, kinda like what you did with Montana and 1979.

The 2 players from the 2/32 are Drew Brees and Russell Wilson. Here's the thing, Baker Mayfield is taller than both of these guys. Matter of fact, Mayfield is closer to Aaron Rodgers in height than he is to Russell Wilson. Mayfield is closer to Tyrod Taylor in height than he is Drew Brees. Why not the comparison to Aaron Rodgers or Dak Prescott? Why not to Tyrod Taylor, they're both the same height? I tell you why, because none of these guys are facing height questions...not even Tyrod and he and Mayfield are the same height (yet you didnt mention Tyrod as part of the 2/32). For the past couple offseason's we've heard Jets fans bang the table for Tyrod Taylor, many of those same fans are criticizing Mayfield for his height. Total hypocrisy. 

Like I said, the height thing is being WAY over blown and it's being used for agenda purposes. It's clear as day just by watching what people write. You cant criticize him for being short, yet for the past couple seasons wanted Tyrod Taylor.  And trust me, I have an agenda too....which is to show that his height is being overblown which is why I've cut to the chase and asked for footage showing Baker having height issues, this is why I cut to the chase and put the height of his Olineman up so folks can see that on average they're the exact same as the Jets team today. 

What I believe is that people are using this height to discredit what he's could possibly do in the pros. 

[Villain The Foe]

28 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

 

he couldnt see past his lineman! lol. 

 

Seriously, he better not ever do that sh*t in the pros. It just looks bad. I think he didnt go in for the tackle because this was his first game back from injury back in his freshman season. 

[GreenFish]

Baker is no where near the athlete Brees is? I doubt that. Brees' and Mayfield's combine numbers are roughly the same. And that is the Brees from close to 20 years ago! The Brees you see today is close to 40 years old. There's a reason why CBs start to decline at 30 years of age. People get slower as they age past full maturation. 

[Villain The Foe]

2 minutes ago, GreenFish said:

Baker is no where near as athlete Brees is. I doubt that. Brees' and Mayfield's combine numbers are roughly the same. And that is the Brees from close to 20 years ago! The Brees you see today is close to 40 years old. 

And Brees is nowhere near the passer Mayfield is in comparing them as rookies. They both played in spread offenses yet their stats arent comparable. Baker has rushed for more yards and rushing TD's as well. 

 

To sit here and to believe that Mayfield will end up being the next Drew Brees is a joke, with that said, the League didnt believe that Drew Brees would develop into the Drew Brees we see today because if so he wouldnt have been a 2nd round pick, Mike Vick wouldnt have been the 1st overall pick, Brees would have been the 1st pick overall to the Falcons. 

Based on college careers though, Baker had the better career. As long as he can throw the ball the way he's been throwing it, not being as athletic as Brees is something that I can deal with. 

[greenwave81]

Show me footage of games where height has been an issue for Baker Mayfield performing on the field and I'll convert right now. 
I dont need anything else but that. 

None exists, but then again, OK was in a spread system with the OL lined up a yard apart and then shifted blocking schemes to either side to open passing lanes for Mayfield. He spent very little time in an NFL ‘pocket’.

Does that translate to the NFL?

[HawkeyeJet]

I keep seeing over and over talk about Darnold being able to run a pro style offense.

Why is that?  He didn't run anything closer to a pro style offense than Mayfield.  

[Patriot Killa]

3 minutes ago, HawkeyeJet said:

I keep seeing over and over talk about Darnold being able to run a pro style offense.

Why is that?  He didn't run anything closer to a pro style offense than Mayfield.  

His first season starting when he put up 30 Touch downs he ran a pro style.

[Matt39]

4 minutes ago, HawkeyeJet said:

I keep seeing over and over talk about Darnold being able to run a pro style offense.

Why is that?  He didn't run anything closer to a pro style offense than Mayfield.  

USC bias

[HawkeyeJet]

13 minutes ago, Patriot Killa said:

His first season starting when he put up 30 Touch downs he ran a pro style.

Not really.

[Patriot Killa]

Charlie Casserly just gave Mayfield a comparison of Kirk Cousins 

[Patriot Killa]

1 minute ago, HawkeyeJet said:

Not really.

From what I understand he played under center and dropped back a lot. Audibles at LOS, ect.

[GreenFish]

1 hour ago, HawkeyeJet said:

I keep seeing over and over talk about Darnold being able to run a pro style offense.

Why is that?  He didn't run anything closer to a pro style offense than Mayfield.  

The best thing to happen to Darnold is that he is in a draft class with 4 other QB's with more visible warts. Especially as they relate to personality. So Darnold has been unscathed throughout this process. It doesn't draw clicks to critic his game or question his potential greatness. It's more interesting to talk about Bakers height or his cockiness. It's just as interesting to talk about Allen's inaccuracy and Rosen's F*** Hat. Darnold. That guy is to nice of a guy. Lamar Jackson's mom gets more follows on tweeter. 

[Villain The Foe]

6 hours ago, greenwave81 said:

None exists, 

Exactly. Everything else said is nothing but negative hypotheticals

 

[Philc1]

19 hours ago, SouthernJet said:

i think he has chance to be Russel Wilson Jr.

see field nicely, and even better while scrambling&throwing on run Like Russel. when u can get out of pocket and teams KNOW you can hit folks in stride, it makes CB come in...

Not even close to the athlete Wilson was Wilson ran a 4.4 Mayfield runs a 4.8 and Wilson is shredded

[SouthernJet]

1 minute ago, Philc1 said:

Not even close to the athlete Wilson was Wilson ran a 4.4 Mayfield runs a 4.8 and Wilson is shredded

escapability and can throw perfect strikes on run,, I didnt say he was a clone LOL

[Philc1]

1 minute ago, SouthernJet said:

escapability and can throw perfect strikes on run,, I didnt say he was a clone LOL

Easy to do that facing soft Big 12 defenses