Bates Says Darnold Could be Week 1 Starter

[billo83]

27 minutes ago, Jetsplayer21 said:

Yes having only 1 of 5 guys hurt for the entire yr is considered a fairly healthy unit. Most teams delt with more injures to their Oline. Look at philly, they had some key injures government their Oline, but their OL was doc stacked they hardly missed a beat. Your making excuses that 1 of 5 guys is hurt ( but still can play ) like it’s rare anyone ever gets injured. Your point is that our line is so bad with no depth to allow winters to sit, and if 1 of 5 gets hurt this yr too we could be looking at another excuse why our OL is so bad. Not because we haven’t drafted a OL before the 5th round since, Brian winters.

No.  You post said it was a "very healthy" unit not a "fairly healthy unit".  That's a huge difference. I made no comment to the overall line play, just that it wasn't very healthy. Remember too that an interior lineman's play can and does affect the play of the lineman on either side of him. Winters should not have been starting and his play was materially affected by injury. So any way you want to slice it, it wasn't a very healthy unit

[joewilly12]

58 minutes ago, SAR I said:

LOL, I hope, otherwise it's going to be a somewhat depressing hots and hams and a movie.

SAR I

So if the family doesn't come through with the grill it will be a depressing Fathers Day?  

What about being thankful for the great children you have regardless of what the gift is. 

Sheesh SAR I COME ON MAN.

joewilly12

[ljr]

18 hours ago, billo83 said:

Week 4 is good in theory, but if McCown does start the season does anyone really believe that Bowles will make a switch outside of an injury? I don't see it if McCown is at least playing average and even a little below average for that matter. He'd have to be stinking up the joint or get hurt. So I'm hoping that Sam wins the job outright to start the season. 

Not happy with Bowles & wish he'd been fired

naturally also would love Darnold to tear it up in TC & Preseason enough to start week 1

but I think even Bowles realizes 6-10 with McCown starting all 16 games = 90% fired

vs

2-2 McCown, 4-8 Darnold starting = less than 90% of getting fired

 

jmo

[Bruce Harper]

On 6/13/2018 at 10:23 PM, jetspenguin said:

1 year as a bad OC on his resume and suddenly he is an authority on when a QB is ready to roll? His resume gives me no more confidence than if KC made the call. There is NOTHING about this guys past as an OC that says he will do anything but get Bowles fired and have Darnold learning a whole new offense next year. 

 

Now that being said.........I hope this is the year they all pull it together and provide a glimpse of an effective offense for a chance. 

Very good players can make nearly any coach look very good.

[jetspenguin]

2 hours ago, Bruce Harper said:

Very good players can make nearly any coach look very good.

very good players? hmmmm.......let me know when we get some

[Bruce Harper]

12 hours ago, jetspenguin said:

very good players? hmmmm.......let me know when we get some

I think we may have one.  And some guys that are good enough. 

[jetspenguin]

33 minutes ago, Bruce Harper said:

I think we may have one.  And some guys that are good enough. 

from your mouth to God's ear's my friend

[Philc1]

On 6/16/2018 at 3:55 PM, slats said:

Reading Hackenberg's comments after being "traded," I get the feeling that besides sucking he also has a crap attitude. Without that, they might've held onto him as a fourth camp arm/guy to play the fourth preseason game/practice squad candidate. I think they just didn't want him moping around Sam. 

Hackenberg is probably just another primadonna Qb.  It is amazing how people defended this clown

[Charlie Brown]

Think Sam Darnold has Jets coaches wanting to START him after OTA's if he continues to improve after saying that Sam may need time when he was drafted; while Baker Mayfield is having to deal with comments like this.......

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2018/06/18/cabot-baker-mayfield-not-ready-to-compete-with-tyrod-taylor/

"A year after the Browns thrust then-rookie quarterback DeShone Kizer into a Week One starting role, the Browns appear intent to do the opposite, keeping quarterback Baker Mayfield on ice for as long as possible.

If that’s the plan, Mayfield is making it easier to implement. Here’s an assessment of the competition, if there is one, between Mayfield and Tyrod Taylor, from Dan Labbe of the Cleveland Plain Dealer: “This is where I tell you that, based on the six practices of OTAs and minicamp that were open to the media, Mayfield did not look ready to compete with Taylor for the No. 1 quarterback job.”

That is all............................. 

[bgivs21]

On 6/13/2018 at 9:03 PM, TuscanyTile2 said:

I could see Teddy B getting the opening day job.  I don't think Darnold will be the opening day starter and TBH, I hope he's not anyway.  Let's see if our OL is any good before we consider risking wrecking Darnold's confidence.

This is what scares me the most after seeing Luck's career.

[68JET11]

On 6/14/2018 at 9:53 AM, ChuckkieB said:

Exactly. Sitting on the sidelines with a clipboard in hand does nothing to further Darnold's development.  If he's deemed ready to play week 1, he should start week 1.  Experience is the best teacher in the NFL, not watching games from the sidelines. 

Sitting on the sidelines doesn't get him killed in the first few weeks, until the OL starts to play well. Don't get me wrong if we had a 2009 type offensive line, I'd be all in on him starting week 1...

[MaxAF]

On 6/19/2018 at 9:39 AM, Charlie Brown said:

Think Sam Darnold has Jets coaches wanting to START him after OTA's if he continues to improve after saying that Sam may need time when he was drafted; while Baker Mayfield is having to deal with comments like this.......

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2018/06/18/cabot-baker-mayfield-not-ready-to-compete-with-tyrod-taylor/

"A year after the Browns thrust then-rookie quarterback DeShone Kizer into a Week One starting role, the Browns appear intent to do the opposite, keeping quarterback Baker Mayfield on ice for as long as possible.

If that’s the plan, Mayfield is making it easier to implement. Here’s an assessment of the competition, if there is one, between Mayfield and Tyrod Taylor, from Dan Labbe of the Cleveland Plain Dealer: “This is where I tell you that, based on the six practices of OTAs and minicamp that were open to the media, Mayfield did not look ready to compete with Taylor for the No. 1 quarterback job.”

That is all............................. 

Still can’t believe they’d passed on Darnold for Mayfield. That’s why the Brown’s will always be the Brown’s. Whenever I get bummed about the Jets I always say “ we’ll i could be a Brown’s fan”.....then I feel better.

[ChuckkieB]

4 hours ago, 68JET11 said:

Sitting on the sidelines doesn't get him killed in the first few weeks, until the OL starts to play well.

I'm not sure I agree with this.  The OL is what it is.  What do we have to wait a few weeks for - to make sure a crappy line gels into being a cohesively crappy line? Darnold is going to take his lumps with this line no matter what week they decide to start him.  It's more important that he gets as many real game reps as possible this year so he can learn and elevate his game next year when expectations will be higher. 

[Bruce Harper]

1 minute ago, ChuckkieB said:

I'm not sure I agree with this.  The OL is what it is.  What do we have to wait a few weeks for - to make sure a crappy line gels into being a cohesively crappy line? Darnold is going to take his lumps with this line no matter what week they decide to start him.  It's more important that he gets as many real game reps as possible this year so he can learn and elevate his game next year when expectations will be higher. 

Plus I think it has been exaggerated a little bit how bad this line is going to be.  With a new center and Winters coming back it should be better.  If we sit him till we have a really good line it might be a while.  Plus he played well behind a pretty mediocre line his sophomore year.

[Jetsplayer21]

49 minutes ago, Bruce Harper said:

Plus I think it has been exaggerated a little bit how bad this line is going to be.  With a new center and Winters coming back it should be better.  If we sit him till we have a really good line it might be a while.  Plus he played well behind a pretty mediocre line his sophomore year.

I sure hope this Oline unit surprises me and those who think it won’t be much better then the 2nd to last ranked Oline unit last yr. My frustration is the continued neglect. Usually if part of your team was almost ranked dead lady in the league, you address it considerably in FA and draft. We knew we had to upgrade of the worst center in the league. Winter’s playing healthy again is good, but it’s not like he was 1 of the best in the NFL. I think because we have not had a very good line in so many years so, many are just so use to it. “ It won’t be that bad” is not the ringing endorsement you want for one of the most important unit of a team. 

[Lupz27]

1 hour ago, Jetsplayer21 said:

I sure hope this Oline unit surprises me and those who think it won’t be much better then the 2nd to last ranked Oline unit last yr. My frustration is the continued neglect. Usually if part of your team was almost ranked dead lady in the league, you address it considerably in FA and draft. We knew we had to upgrade of the worst center in the league. Winter’s playing healthy again is good, but it’s not like he was 1 of the best in the NFL. I think because we have not had a very good line in so many years so, many are just so use to it. “ It won’t be that bad” is not the ringing endorsement you want for one of the most important unit of a team. 

Well aside from 2005, and 2007 the Jets had one of the best O-line’s in the league from 1998-2010, the last 7 years have been tough sledding it was one of the things I took for granted as a Jets fan, now the O-line (and edge rusher) are becoming our new can’t find a god damn QB position bitching, but the most important part is the franchise QB so they finally took care of that.  Dodged a real bullet not getting hood winked into Mayfield like the Browns did (I actually think the Jets did, but the Browns saved them from themselves).

[Jetsplayer21]

2 hours ago, Lupz27 said:

Well aside from 2005, and 2007 the Jets had one of the best O-line’s in the league from 1998-2010, the last 7 years have been tough sledding it was one of the things I took for granted as a Jets fan, now the O-line (and edge rusher) are becoming our new can’t find a god damn QB position bitching, but the most important part is the franchise QB so they finally took care of that.  Dodged a real bullet not getting hood winked into Mayfield like the Browns did (I actually think the Jets did, but the Browns saved them from themselves).

Getting darnold was crucial. The major difference is jets have been trying very hard to find the qb and edge rusher these past years. They have not tried AT ALL to make their Oline dominant, or a top 10-15 unit. They have done as little as they could with the Oline. Not 1 draft pick for the OL before the 5th round in the last 5 years. Not 1 one class A signing in FA either. We must be the only team in the NFL that has not done either. My worry is Mac just thinks he is smarter than all the gm who have actually won in this league. That is to build a strong OL. We know our HC does not care much about the O side of the ball and wants the big FA bucks for his D, and the premium picks for D also, other then qb. 

Right about prior to 2010. We did it right back then, picked two stud lineman in the top 30, rounding it out with a $$$ vet or 2. Mac needs to take some notes.

[Philc1]

Jets fans overrating their WRs and underrating their O-line

[nyjunc]

2 minutes ago, Philc1 said:

Jets fans overrating their WRs and underrating their O-line

Our OL is still a work in progress but I think we'll have a solid OL,  as for the WRs I really like this group.  There's no #1 guy but there are a bunch of good WRs in this group and more than enough talent for a young QB to succeed with.   Darnold will take his lumps as a rookie regardless but we have enough talent around him where he won't be in a hopeless situation that can ruin him for the future.

[Philc1]

Just now, nyjunc said:

Our OL is still a work in progress but I think we'll have a solid OL,  as for the WRs I really like this group.  There's no #1 guy but there are a bunch of good WRs in this group and more than enough talent for a young QB to succeed with.   Darnold will take his lumps as a rookie regardless but we have enough talent around him where he won't be in a hopeless situation that can ruin him for the future.

I think our OL is better than our receivers 

[nyjunc]

2 minutes ago, Philc1 said:

I think our OL is better than our receivers 

I hope so b/c I do like this group of WRs.  If that is the case(and if I am right on the WRs obviously assuming good health and staying out of jail) we can really surprise some folks this year.

[jamesr]

10 hours ago, Jetsplayer21 said:

Getting darnold was crucial. The major difference is jets have been trying very hard to find the qb and edge rusher these past years. They have not tried AT ALL to make their Oline dominant, or a top 10-15 unit. They have done as little as they could with the Oline. Not 1 draft pick for the OL before the 5th round in the last 5 years. Not 1 one class A signing in FA either. We must be the only team in the NFL that has not done either. My worry is Mac just thinks he is smarter than all the gm who have actually won in this league. That is to build a strong OL. We know our HC does not care much about the O side of the ball and wants the big FA bucks for his D, and the premium picks for D also, other then qb. 

Right about prior to 2010. We did it right back then, picked two stud lineman in the top 30, rounding it out with a $$$ vet or 2. Mac needs to take some notes.

Bowles has said on more than one occasion he wants to run the ball more. To run the ball effectively you need a good O line. I doubt he'd have any issues with the organisation bringing in FA OL talent.

[slats]

15 hours ago, ChuckkieB said:

I'm not sure I agree with this.  The OL is what it is.  What do we have to wait a few weeks for - to make sure a crappy line gels into being a cohesively crappy line? Darnold is going to take his lumps with this line no matter what week they decide to start him.  It's more important that he gets as many real game reps as possible this year so he can learn and elevate his game next year when expectations will be higher. 

Sitting the first few weeks of the season is probably more beneficial than detrimental to his development. Jets have three games in eleven days with week one on Monday night and week three on Thursday night. Two out of three on the road. No rookie QB should have short weeks to prepare for his second and third career starts. Let McCown start those weeks and help the new offense/zone blocking scheme get up to speed, then throw Sam in week four or five. 

[ChuckkieB]

2 hours ago, slats said:

Sitting the first few weeks of the season is probably more beneficial than detrimental to his development. Jets have three games in eleven days with week one on Monday night and week three on Thursday night. Two out of three on the road. No rookie QB should have short weeks to prepare for his second and third career starts. Let McCown start those weeks and help the new offense/zone blocking scheme get up to speed, then throw Sam in week four or five. 

As long as Darnold starts the majority of the games, I'm fine with it.  What I'm afraid of is even if he's ready but McCown is playing well, there will be less of a reason and incentive for Bowles to start Darnold and the worst possible scenario IMO is that Darnold is given only a handful of games at the end of the season. 

If Darnold is ready to start, he needs to start as many games as possible this year.

[Philc1]

2 hours ago, slats said:

Sitting the first few weeks of the season is probably more beneficial than detrimental to his development. Jets have three games in eleven days with week one on Monday night and week three on Thursday night. Two out of three on the road. No rookie QB should have short weeks to prepare for his second and third career starts. Let McCown start those weeks and help the new offense/zone blocking scheme get up to speed, then throw Sam in week four or five. 

This

 

Start McCown week 1 in Detroit

 

[Philc1]

27 minutes ago, ChuckkieB said:

As long as Darnold starts the majority of the games, I'm fine with it.  What I'm afraid of is even if he's ready but McCown is playing well, there will be less of a reason and incentive for Bowles to start Darnold and the worst possible scenario IMO is that Darnold is given only a handful of games at the end of the season. 

If Darnold is ready to start, he needs to start as many games as possible this year.

Darnold will start a majority of games no matter what

[Jetsplayer21]

5 hours ago, jamesr said:

Bowles has said on more than one occasion he wants to run the ball more. To run the ball effectively you need a good O line. I doubt he'd have any issues with the organisation bringing in FA OL talent.

This is exactly my point. They signed a center who has a bad recent injury history, and didn’t touch a OL in the draft. I know we didn’t have many premium picks this yr, but they haven’t drafted a OL before 5th round since winters. It’s not like Todd Bowles hasn’t wanted to run the ball a ton. He is rex Ryan all over again. D cord HCs want to run the ball, control the clock, win games 12-9. He was never a pass first guy, and he has been here for few years now. So he has not tried to build a strong OL at all.

[Jet Nut]

23 hours ago, Bruce Harper said:

Plus I think it has been exaggerated a little bit how bad this line is going to be.  With a new center and Winters coming back it should be better.  If we sit him till we have a really good line it might be a while.  Plus he played well behind a pretty mediocre line his sophomore year.

And what would fans have the Jets do if the OL plays well, Darnold is playing and then two go down?  Put Darnold back onto the bench?  

[Jet Nut]

2 hours ago, Jetsplayer21 said:

This is exactly my point. They signed a center who has a bad recent injury history, and didn’t touch a OL in the draft. I know we didn’t have many premium picks this yr, but they haven’t drafted a OL before 5th round since winters. It’s not like Todd Bowles hasn’t wanted to run the ball a ton. He is rex Ryan all over again. D cord HCs want to run the ball, control the clock, win games 12-9. He was never a pass first guy, and he has been here for few years now. So he has not tried to build a strong OL at all.

How is it you know that Bowles wants to "run the ball a ton"?  Or that he's Rex all over again?  Nothing about Bowles offense says either of these things, it's what we imagine with a defensive coach.  

[Jetsplayer21]

17 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

How is it you know that Bowles wants to "run the ball a ton"?  Or that he's Rex all over again?  Nothing about Bowles offense says either of these things, it's what we imagine with a defensive coach.  

I have been through this too much already. Dug up links saying Bowles wants to run significantly more. I see you highlight my use of “ ton.”  I will phrase it this way. Todd Bowles thought we passed too much last yr, yet we were only in the middle of the pack in nfl in pass attempts. So is it wrong to assume Bowles wants to be in the Bottom 5 in nfl pass attempts? Since the middle of the pack was significantly too much for him ?

[Jet Nut]

23 minutes ago, Jetsplayer21 said:

I have been through this too much already. Dug up links saying Bowles wants to run significantly more. I see you highlight my use of “ ton.”  I will phrase it this way. Todd Bowles thought we passed too much last yr, yet we were only in the middle of the pack in nfl in pass attempts. So is it wrong to assume Bowles wants to be in the Bottom 5 in nfl pass attempts? Since the middle of the pack was significantly too much for him ?

Its more situational.  Not overall.  Passing every down with 40 seconds left protecting a lead at the half vs the Pats, passing at 1 min vs the fins in Miami setting up the loss.  Passing every down inside the 5 with the game on the balance in NJ...The Jet offense game plans were inconsistent.  I dont think we were a balanced team a year ago

[Jetsplayer21]

26 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Its more situational.  Not overall.  Passing every down with 40 seconds left protecting a lead at the half vs the Pats, passing at 1 min vs the fins in Miami setting up the loss.  Passing every down inside the 5 with the game on the balance in NJ...The Jet offense game plans were inconsistent.  I dont think we were a balanced team a year ago

How about Bowles wanting to run out the clock end of the half in Denver when there was plenty of time to try to get us a score before half. 

  We all know D gerus love their running game. So it’s no surprise Bowles wants to run it a lot. 

  I do agree the game plans were inconsistent but isn’t the element of surprise a good thing ? Is it really going to work often running the ball when the D is expecting it? Only passing on 3rd and long ? It’s like in baseball, you can’t always throw a fast ball down the pipe on the first Pitch. Bottom line in we were picked to finish dead last or near dead last, last yr. It was the D that was suppose to carry the O. The jets were suppose to have the worst offense in league last yr,  but they definitely over achieved. I think taking risks and passsing more by Morton was a very large part of that. Not saying the offense can’t do well this yr. But it seems Bowles is being way too stubborn, like rex was.

[Jet Nut]

3 minutes ago, Jetsplayer21 said:

How about Bowles wanting to run out the clock end of the half in Denver when there was plenty of time to try to get us a score before half. 

  We all know D gerus love their running game. So it’s no surprise Bowles wants to run it a lot. 

  I do agree the game plans were inconsistent but isn’t the element of surprise a good thing ? Is it really going to work often running the ball when the D is expecting it? Only passing on 3rd and long ? It’s like in baseball, you can’t always throw a fast ball down the pipe on the first Pitch. Bottom line in we were picked to finish dead last or near dead last, last yr. It was the D that was suppose to carry the O. The jets were suppose to have the worst offense in league last yr,  but they definitely over achieved. I think taking risks and passsing more by Morton was a very large part of that. Not saying the offense can’t do well this yr. But it seems Bowles is being way too stubborn, like rex was.

How about it was the right play and had nothing to do with wanting to establish the team as a running team?  He was trying to avoid a huge bad play with an injured QB.

Shula went from running every play to passing on every play when he went from Csonka and Griese to Marino.  Belichick was balanced with Kosar and a running game, pass happy with Vinny, Bledsoe and the established Brady.  Lots of defensive coaches have coached offensive minded teams.  Want to see Bowles with better QBs before making the call

I think the Jets, last year, were inconsistent.  They stayed with the pass when they should have mixed in the run and stayed with the run at times and abandoned the pass.  They still wound up passing more than running the ball, think it was more situational.  

[Jetsplayer21]

24 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

How about it was the right play and had nothing to do with wanting to establish the team as a running team?  He was trying to avoid a huge bad play with an injured QB.

Shula went from running every play to passing on every play when he went from Csonka and Griese to Marino.  Belichick was balanced with Kosar and a running game, pass happy with Vinny, Bledsoe and the established Brady.  Lots of defensive coaches have coached offensive minded teams.  Want to see Bowles with better QBs before making the call

I think the Jets, last year, were inconsistent.  They stayed with the pass when they should have mixed in the run and stayed with the run at times and abandoned the pass.  They still wound up passing more than running the ball, think it was more situational.  

I just used that one instance as example of a long lasting continuous with Todd Bowles. Ultra conservative. You have to take risks to win in this league, especially if you are the underdog. Look at philly in Super Bowl , going on 4th down middle of field, going for crazy goal line play. Todd Bowles never liked to “ go for it “ why I feel he wants a much more conservative run game, mixed in with short conservative 3 yard passes. I sure hope I’m wrong, we are not a good enough team to be Mr conservative.

[Jet Nut]

6 hours ago, Jetsplayer21 said:

I just used that one instance as example of a long lasting continuous with Todd Bowles. Ultra conservative. You have to take risks to win in this league, especially if you are the underdog. Look at philly in Super Bowl , going on 4th down middle of field, going for crazy goal line play. Todd Bowles never liked to “ go for it “ why I feel he wants a much more conservative run game, mixed in with short conservative 3 yard passes. I sure hope I’m wrong, we are not a good enough team to be Mr conservative.

Not totally disagreeing with you.  But Philly, in the SB no less, is a bad analogy.  Had heard that the point of why a coach would just pack up at the half is because they're building and don't want to go into the half with another bad play.  There was little to be gained.  But Philly, they arrived, were playing for a trophy, jets were not.  

As for being conservative, I just don't see it other than the usual you need to run in the NE to be successful.  Fitz, his first season and McCown were hardly conservative.  Shlt, Fitz set the team mark for passing TDs and came close to 4K yards.