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Sources: Brady "felt trapped", long worried about being "pushed out" by Belichick

jetstream23

By jetstream23
in NY Jets Forum

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Hitman Harris

Hitman Harris

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, greenwichjetfan said:

Goodell destroyed tapes that would seriously compromise the shield. Vegas would have a hard time attracting bets if the public knew about the cheating on those tapes.

If he went to those lengths to protect the shield, absolutely no way he allows anyone to investigate Adams, Guerrero, or ‘TB12’. Those of who know, know. Unfortunately, there will be no groundbreaking reports or admission of guilt. 

much like the p word that is forbidden here 

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ljr

ljr

Posted
Posted
16 hours ago, Kleckineau said:

Lets be honest here. BB may be a skunk but who wouldnt trade Bowles for him in a nanosecond.

I wouldn't

 

one's a pathetic retard

the other's a cheating lying POS d**shbag

 

having a smug little sack-o-$h*t .. Who definitely got wedged & thrown crying like a baby into lockers in school ... crawl out from his stinking hole in the sewer pipe to become our coach !?!?!

 

F that $h*t!

I'd prefer to go 0-16 for the next decade!!!

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Sperm Edwards

Sperm Edwards

Posted
Posted
17 hours ago, CTM said:

Hard to believe this myth is still perpetuated.  

NE went from 16-0 division winners and #1 seed against a top 10 difficult schedule in 2007

To 

11-5 and completely missing the playoffs despite playing a bottom 5 easy schedule in 2008

Looking at stats that control for competition illustrates this point

The 2007 Pat's had the highest offensive dvoa EVER and second highest  overall dvoa EVER

The 2008 Pats had middling dvoa just compared to the 2008 season and not even a top 100 season historically 

Even looking at raw win totals, a +/- 5 change in YOY win total is the difference between the jets making the playoffs last year or being in position to draft darnold 

I dont understand how anyone can label such a cratering of performance as "they didn't skip a beat". They had a massive drop off in performance 

Very true, but at the same time they didn't go from Brady to a different starter. They went from Brady to a backup QB who hadn't started a full football game in almost a decade, and never started and finished a game against talent higher than high school. He was a 7th round backup who only attempted 33 passes in 4 years at USC, with 0 TDs and a pick, and 15 total attempts the prior 2 NFL seasons (each attempt in meaningless garbage time). 

More than that, it's not like they got to prepare all offseason and build an offense around Cassel, to the extent that would have even helped. It happened during the game in week 1, just like that, without warning. (And there was much rejoicing.) 

Any rookie QB is understandably given a bunch of mulligans, if not for his whole rookie season outright. Meanwhile those guys started and finished every game for their teams the prior couple seasons. Cassel hadn't started a game since high school - 8 years earlier - and if he did it was limited action in preseason, playing with and against camp fodder, and what limited action he saw was insignificant mop-up duty that mattered to no one.

Surely a Jets fan knows how a subpar QB infects the whole team.

Ah, whatever. **** them both.

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Sperm Edwards

Sperm Edwards

Posted
Posted
36 minutes ago, Jimmy 2 Times said:

Think about what couldda been:

 

-Manning comes out his JR year

-Mumbles doesn't leave

-WE are the cheating ****s with a dozen Superbowls

 

 

 

Manning and Mumbles would've been the perfect Frankenstein monster of football.

Could have been if Parcells was blocked from coaching here, since his phone records were enough for Tag to catch him in a tuna net. 

How was that for arrogance, where he (and Hess) couldn’t even be bothered to spend $500 on a second cellphone no one else knew about?

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jack48

jack48

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Posted
On 9/19/2018 at 12:53 AM, Jetsfan80 said:

F*ck em both.  Brady cried like a b*tch when he was taken in the 6th round, insulting insurance salesmen the world over in the process.  Yet now he's going to throw Belichick under the bus even though he was the guy who gave him a chance and helped make him great. 

Meanwhile, Belichick is of course a worldclass douchebag.  He'd cut a family member from the team or coaching staff in a heartbeat if it helped him. 

On the whole, I hate Brady more than Belichick, and this is just one more whiny, crybaby instance in a long line of those by the biggest b*tch in the NFL. 

I love the shots of Brady screaming at his teammates on the sideline.  Why would these guys not let a Fat D Lineman fall on Tom's knees?  He is  a giant ass.  But it does speak of the professionalism Billbelly instills in his players, say whatever you want.  Bill is a douche. Tom is a prick.  I was thinking the other day that I would rather watch a Billbelly press conference than a Todd Blowes one.  BB grunts vs Todd's unbearable drone.  Ha ha

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CTM

CTM

Posted
Posted
7 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Very true, but at the same time they didn't go from Brady to a different starter. They went from Brady to a backup QB who hadn't started a full football game in almost a decade, and never started and finished a game against talent higher than high school. He was a 7th round backup who only attempted 33 passes in 4 years at USC, with 0 TDs and a pick, and 15 total attempts the prior 2 NFL seasons (each attempt in meaningless garbage time). 

More than that, it's not like they got to prepare all offseason and build an offense around Cassel, to the extent that would have even helped. It happened during the game in week 1, just like that, without warning. (And there was much rejoicing.) 

Any rookie QB is understandably given a bunch of mulligans, if not for his whole rookie season outright. Meanwhile those guys started and finished every game for their teams the prior couple seasons. Cassel hadn't started a game since high school - 8 years earlier - and if he did it was limited action in preseason, playing with and against camp fodder, and what limited action he saw was insignificant mop-up duty that mattered to no one.

Surely a Jets fan knows how a subpar QB infects the whole team.

Ah, whatever. **** them both.

The team was clearly stacked and the coaching staff strong. Clearly that team was Bradys best and the cast around him were better than other years.

The difference in SOS is probably worth 3 games alone though. Remember in 2008 the AFC east played the NFC and AFC west, which both were abysmal that year. In fact 9 of NE's 16 games came against teams in the bottom 11 of DVOA.

Miami went from 1 win to 11 that season because the schedule was so favorable and proceeded to get completely exposed at home in the playoffs. 

The AFC east had 3 teams with winning records that year because they got fat on the 2 weakest divisions in football. That's how 11-5 missed the playoffs

 

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Sperm Edwards

Sperm Edwards

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Posted
44 minutes ago, CTM said:

The team was clearly stacked and the coaching staff strong. Clearly that team was Bradys best and the cast around him were better than other years.

The difference in SOS is probably worth 3 games alone though. Remember in 2008 the AFC east played the NFC and AFC west, which both were abysmal that year. In fact 9 of NE's 16 games came against teams in the bottom 11 of DVOA.

Miami went from 1 win to 11 that season because the schedule was so favorable and proceeded to get completely exposed at home in the playoffs. 

The AFC east had 3 teams with winning records that year because they got fat on the 2 weakest divisions in football. That's how 11-5 missed the playoffs

 

Yeah but none of that counters the team-wide effect of a team not only losing Brady, but losing him what halfway through week 1, with Matt Cassel as the next man up. 

11-5 missed the playoffs because an 8-8 team made it while the other 3 divisions had 11-12 win teams in 2nd place. Miami getting beaten in the WC game doesn't therefore mean NE would have had the same fate, as much as I'd wish it so (had they made it). Sometimes teams are just poor matchups against one and good matchups against others. Look at Arizona vs. New England in late December, then Arizona vs. Pittsburgh in the SB. One game result doesn't always tell the whole story.

The likelihood, if Brady didn't get injured, is they'd have won 13-14 and not gone 16-0 again. I don't think it's controversial to suggest a 31 year-old Brady, coming off his best season by far, was at least 3 games more valuable as a player and offense/team leader than whatever Matt Cassel was the moment he jogged onto the field to replace him.

All other things being equal, I think they'd have beaten Indy instead of losing by a FG (but it's hardly a lock). The Jets often had one toss-up game and one clear loss annually, so it's hard to say as well. Outside their 1-win season, Miami also had a history of splitting with NE so I can't automatically award that a Pats win either. They probably beat San Diego. Pittsburgh would have still been a toss-up at best the way they were playing that year. Really I think they win another 2-3 games, regardless of some other creampuffs they played. But reversing just one of those losses would have pushed NE into the post-season.  

The offense wasn't otherwise 100% identical anyway. 700-yd, mostly-starting receiver Stallworth was replaced by nobody; their starting RB Maroney also went down for the season after 2 games before coming back for just 1 more; Evans I guess showed why they let him hit FA after the season; and the elephant in the room Moss was always a moody sh*t who only performed when he felt like it (compare his 2007 to 2006 season before only looking at 2008). On D, key '07 FA Adalius Thomas missed half the '08 season; they lost Asante Samuel to FA in favor of has-been Deltha O'Neal; lost all-time dirty player Harrison in favor of a rookie; and Bruschi went from the D's lead tackler starting every game in '07 to missing 1/4 of the season and on the cusp of retirement. These changes were all downgrades. I'm just saying Brady/Cassel wasn't the only difference, even if it was easily the most important one.

The other reality is it takes some luck to go 16-0 no matter how good a team is. There were 4 games in 2007 that could have easily gone the other way, and even after Brady returned for 2009 they still only went 10-6. 

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CTM

CTM

Posted
Posted
4 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Yeah but none of that counters the team-wide effect of a team not only losing Brady, but losing him what halfway through week 1, with Matt Cassel as the next man up. 

11-5 missed the playoffs because an 8-8 team made it while the other 3 divisions had 11-12 win teams in 2nd place. Miami getting beaten in the WC game doesn't therefore mean NE would have had the same fate, as much as I'd wish it so (had they made it). Sometimes teams are just poor matchups against one and good matchups against others. Look at Arizona vs. New England in late December, then Arizona vs. Pittsburgh in the SB. One game result doesn't always tell the whole story.

The likelihood, if Brady didn't get injured, is they'd have won 13-14 and not gone 16-0 again. I don't think it's controversial to suggest a 31 year-old Brady, coming off his best season by far, was at least 3 games more valuable as a player and offense/team leader than whatever Matt Cassel was the moment he jogged onto the field to replace him.

All other things being equal, I think they'd have beaten Indy instead of losing by a FG (but it's hardly a lock). The Jets often had one toss-up game and one clear loss annually, so it's hard to say as well. Outside their 1-win season, Miami also had a history of splitting with NE so I can't automatically award that a Pats win either. They probably beat San Diego. Pittsburgh would have still been a toss-up at best the way they were playing that year. Really I think they win another 2-3 games, regardless of some other creampuffs they played. But reversing just one of those losses would have pushed NE into the post-season.  

The offense wasn't otherwise 100% identical anyway. 700-yd, mostly-starting receiver Stallworth was replaced by nobody; their starting RB Maroney also went down for the season after 2 games before coming back for just 1 more; Evans I guess showed why they let him hit FA after the season; and the elephant in the room Moss was always a moody sh*t who only performed when he felt like it (compare his 2007 to 2006 season before only looking at 2008). On D, key '07 FA Adalius Thomas missed half the '08 season; they lost Asante Samuel to FA in favor of has-been Deltha O'Neal; lost all-time dirty player Harrison in favor of a rookie; and Bruschi went from the D's lead tackler starting every game in '07 to missing 1/4 of the season and on the cusp of retirement. These changes were all downgrades. I'm just saying Brady/Cassel wasn't the only difference, even if it was easily the most important one.

The other reality is it takes some luck to go 16-0 no matter how good a team is. There were 4 games in 2007 that could have easily gone the other way, and even after Brady returned for 2009 they still only went 10-6. 

Of course it takes some luck to go 16-0, just as it took the luck of an easy schedule for 08 Pat's to go 11-5. However what id not luck is that over 1000 plays or so the 07 Pat's grade out as the best offense in the history of football and the following year they fell back to an average offense just in 08 terms. This is the most relevant data to look out when responding to someone who says Belichick teams dont miss a beat with Brady out and using Cassel/08 season/11 wins as evidence 

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Sperm Edwards

Sperm Edwards

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Posted
1 hour ago, CTM said:

Of course it takes some luck to go 16-0, just as it took the luck of an easy schedule for 08 Pat's to go 11-5. However what id not luck is that over 1000 plays or so the 07 Pat's grade out as the best offense in the history of football and the following year they fell back to an average offense just in 08 terms. This is the most relevant data to look out when responding to someone who says Belichick teams dont miss a beat with Brady out and using Cassel/08 season/11 wins as evidence 

1. All-Time Great offense isn’t sustainable. Too many things change. It’s not provable that the offense would have been equally effective in 2008 with Brady.

2. Nobody seriously suggests going from 2008 Brady to 2008 Cassel wasn’t a significant downgrade. They were still top-10 despite all the additional changes I outlined, but they obviously weren’t on the same level. 

3. The offense wasn’t All-Time-Great when Brady returned in 2009 either.

There are few sports figures I dislike more than Bill Belichick, but if the entire offense returned, most starting QBs in the league who would have had that offense back over 30 ppg.

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CTM

CTM

Posted
Posted
39 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

1. All-Time Great offense isn’t sustainable. Too many things change. It’s not provable that the offense would have been equally effective in 2008 with Brady.

2. Nobody seriously suggests going from 2008 Brady to 2008 Cassel wasn’t a significant downgrade. They were still top-10 despite all the additional changes I outlined, but they obviously weren’t on the same level. 

3. The offense wasn’t All-Time-Great when Brady returned in 2009 either.

There are few sports figures I dislike more than Bill Belichick, but if the entire offense returned, most starting QBs in the league who would have had that offense back over 30 ppg.

1) + 3)   2010 Pat's was #2 offense of all time.

Top 5-10 QBs make that offense score more than 3

And none of what you said disproves what I was originally arguing against  ( that Belichick doesnt miss a beat without Brady)

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Spoot-Face

Spoot-Face

Posted
Posted
16 hours ago, Freemanm said:

My only take away from all this is that it reinforces the symbiotic relationship between Belidick and Brady. Whether either of them like it or not - or want to admit it or not - the truth is that one would not do well without the other. 

Yeah, but the question is which one of em is the symbiote and which one is Cletus Kasady.

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Spoot-Face

Spoot-Face

Posted
Posted
10 hours ago, Jimmy 2 Times said:

Think about what couldda been:

 

-Manning comes out his JR year

-Mumbles doesn't leave

-WE are the cheating ****s with a dozen Superbowls

 

 

 

Manning and Mumbles would've been the perfect Frankenstein monster of football.

Peyton Manning doesn't strike me as the kinda guy who would be down with all that cheating. Unless there's something that I don't know about him.

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Sperm Edwards

Sperm Edwards

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, CTM said:

1) + 3)   2010 Pat's was #2 offense of all time.

Top 5-10 QBs make that offense score more than 3

And none of what you said disproves what I was originally arguing against  ( that Belichick doesnt miss a beat without Brady)

I’m saying without Brady doesn’t necessarily = Matt Cassel’s first extended action since high school, making him arguably the least-experienced QB to ever play in the NFL.

I think there’s a good amount in between. As in, there are a number of QBs with whom the Pats wouldn’t have missed a beat (or it wouldn’t have been so noticeable), but there’s a pathetically small number of opportunities in which Cassel could have QB’d a top 10 offense given his resume to that point. 

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Smashmouth

Smashmouth

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, CTM said:

1) + 3)   2010 Pat's was #2 offense of all time.

Top 5-10 QBs make that offense score more than 3

And none of what you said disproves what I was originally arguing against  ( that Belichick doesnt miss a beat without Brady)

The Pats are all about the combo of Brady and Belichick. Brady will never get to prove anything with another team but Belichick has proven 3 times he can win with other QB's even with JAG's at WR. 

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CTM

CTM

Posted
Posted
5 minutes ago, Smashmouth said:

The Pats are all about the combo of Brady and Belichick. Brady will never get to prove anything with another team but Belichick has proven 3 times he can win with other QB's even with JAG's at WR. 

Belichick career record without Brady is around 500 or below

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Smashmouth

Smashmouth

Posted
Posted
55 minutes ago, CTM said:

Belichick career record without Brady is around 500 or below

Meh that's in a very short time span didn't really have time to implement anything and be effective with the Browns or the first 2 years with the Pats.

Keep in mind as Brady Learned the system Belichick wanted to run he got better and better to the point they could plug in any JAG off the street and succeed since its a very high passing percentage system. You can make the point that was all Brady but you can't just discount the fact Belichick still wins even when his team seems to be falling off. Other teams have great QB's as well and have large transitions across the board with personnel but they can't seem to consistently win like Belichick can. Also no one can coach up a defense in critical situational football Like Belichick can. They can get beat like a drum for the entire game then when they need the big stop or big play on D they always seem to get it thats not just dumb luck that's clutch coaching. In comparison the Jets defense plays lights out all game and NEVER EVER makes the big play at the end of a game to regain possession or stop the other team on third down.

With his system implemented  

Cassel 11-5

Garropolo   2-0 

Brissett 1-1

Can you argue that ?

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Rangers9

Rangers9

Posted
Posted

If there was a battle last year between Belichick, Brady and Kraft Brady won. According to reports BB never wanted to trade Jimmy G. And when he did deal him he screwed the Patriots on the return. Potentially on purpose. Not a big shock if

BB will exit after this year and either retire or take over a franchise. Maybe not even coach be President and get a piece of the action something Kraft would never give him. 

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