I've defended Macc

[jetstream23]

3 hours ago, Jetster said:

People on these boards know that I have defended Macc quite a few times but with the recent release of 2 more players (Stewart & Hansen), my patience is now wearing a bit thin. 

Its only 2 games & nothing can be concluded yet but the indifference these guys have put on our Oline is boardering on criminal. If you notice, each & every game has the same tone when reviewed by people who get paid to examine these matchups. It's unanimous that the left side of the Jets Oline is a dumpster fire. 

I mean going forward, this team will be underdogs in probably every single game they play vs teams that have pass rushers. This is the direct result of ignoring the offensive trenches & continually giving Bowles/Rogers defense at the top of the draft, BUT, the 3/4 picks at WR last year were ridiculous! Both guys complete stiffs! I had hope as I don't watch college football but these mid picks are really getting bad & there are a lot of teams with guys starting that were picked slightly after these guys. Disappointed. 

I said this in another thread but a reasonable analysis is....

- Macc has had average or worse than average draft selections, particularly in specific position groups like WR and (until this year) QB.

- Macc has been objective about those failures and isn't holding on to guys simply because they were drafted by him.  It would have been relatively easy to keep at least one of Hansen and Stewart, claimed that year 2 was too early to give up on them, etc.

 

He needs to draft better.  But he hasn't been married to poor decisions and seems willing to swallow his pride on those.  I also think that while Macc is ultimately responsible, he does have a scouting department that evaluates and recommends these guys to him.  I think that function has been very poor for several years.

On the flip side, Macc has shown some good results in FA and trades with a buy low / sell high approach.  He traded for Brandon Marshall at the right time and for the right compensation.  This year's move for Henry Anderson is probably the most underrated player acquisition on the team.  He got a little more for Richardson than I thought he might and he flipped that pick into Darnold.

In short...it's a mixed bag.  Overall roster management seems....okay.....drafting has been poor outside Round 1.  Just my take...

[HessStation]

28 minutes ago, C Mart said:

No, I understand. Again he's been drafting within the top 5 (obviously not just the 1st but 2nd etc..) his first 5 drafts. Lee doesn't do anything for me (he's always hurt going back to his USC days)...Smoot intrigued me pre-draft but he hasn't had a sack yet..at least the sites I looked (been inactive both '18 games).  I was hoping LT Robinson made it to the Jets last yr in the 2nd. 

you're saying you understand but then you keep trying to poke holes. As far as drafting top 5...he's picked 1 all pro and 1 pro bowler in the 3rd rounds, another pro bowler in the 2nd and an All Pro in the 5th...this is on top of 2 All-Pro first round picks. Not even mentioning the 4 elite/all pro FAs he's brought in. This is all during the same time that Maccagnan has been GM. 

Am I missing somebody? Who's done a better job in your opinion? 

[C Mart]

8 minutes ago, HessStation said:

you're saying you understand but then you keep trying to poke holes. As far as drafting top 5...he's picked 1 all pro and 1 pro bowler in the 3rd rounds, another pro bowler in the 2nd and an All Pro in the 5th...this is on top of 2 All-Pro first round picks. Not even mentioning the 4 elite FAs he's brought in. This is all during the same time that Maccagnan has been GM. 

Am I missing somebody? Who's done a better job in your opinion? 

I haven't looked into it. 

I only "poked" holes because Mcc didn't have the chance to draft LT Robinson, Jack, Yeldon in the 2nd. Would he had? We'll never know. Smoot hasn't done what was referenced.

FAs I didn't address because at this stage it's obvious since '17 (an argument could even be made for '16 excluding Fitz) they've decided not to go after big name/salary FAs other than TJohnson.  

[redlichtie]

2 hours ago, C Mart said:

Agree. People say they only care about the Jets and that's fine but if you look around the other 31 teams these type of moves/duds happen all the time. I always thought the media definition of a successful draft is if you get two quality players out of each draft. 

Just look at the Jets PS. They have two recent 3rd round picks (Webb '17, Kaufusi '16 (a Ozzie Newsome pick). RB Henderson was a '17 6th rounder

Not happy w/the releases but people need to realize the Jets have acquired two/three veteran WRs (Kearse, Pryor and to some extent Roberts) since those two were drafted. I thought Stewart was a PR/KR/slot type guy maybe I was wrong. Roberts is definitely an upgrade in that role 

As always CMart you make a good point. My issue is how do we know really anything about how Stewart, and to a lesser extent Hansen, will ultimately develop as pro players? 1 season just isn’t enough but as you point out it’s not just a Jets issue. 

[ZachEY]

1 hour ago, Maxman said:

My favorite threads are the ji threads were I get to say I was right, Klecko73 chimes in with something and I get to give him positive rep.

Not sure who you're talking about, because I never give Klecko73isGod positive rep!

[chirorob]

1 hour ago, varjet said:

All true.  Beachum is worse-hurt and older.   Carpenter is not better.   The Jets will do very poorly when the opponent has a pass rusher that Beachum can’t block.  The Browns, Jax and Broncos fall into that category. 

Agree.   Overall, the line is better, but the left side is worse.  It's is not a strong point, that is for sure.

How does older, hurt Beachum hold up playing 3rd game in 11 days or whatever it is?   

[HessStation]

17 minutes ago, C Mart said:

I haven't looked into it. 

I only "poked" holes because Mcc didn't have the chance to draft LT Robinson, Jack, Yeldon in the 2nd. Would he had? We'll never know. Smoot hasn't done what was referenced.

FAs I didn't address because at this stage it's obvious since '17 (an argument could even be made for '16 excluding Fitz) they've decided not to go after big name/salary FAs other than TJohnson.  

Dude....what? Nevermind it’s all good

[The Crusher]

If only there was a way to evaluate and judge draft picks before you choose them. I would call it” scouting.” Never again would you whip a dart at your big board and take what sticks. 

[HelenOfTroy]

3 hours ago, Maxman said:

You don't need to take offensive lineman in the 1st round to have a good offensive line.

Top of the 2nd is the charm....oops, don’t have one, right?

[Gastineau Lives]

47 minutes ago, Dcat said:

 

 

Analogies were eliminated from the SAT like 20 years ago.  You are way behind the times.  Much like Bowles' concept of offense.  

The really funny part of this is that I worked for the College Board for three years.

The unfunny part of this is that I'm ******* old.

[Gastineau Lives]

1 minute ago, The Crusher said:

If only there was a way to evaluate and judge draft picks before you choose them. I would call it” scouting.” Never again would you whip a dart at your big board and take what sticks. 

This is a better invention than the cronut (all apologies to Chef Ansel)

[bealeb319]

I think people underestimate the amount this happens with every other team around the league.

Every other team drafts probowlers with every selection

Sent from my [device_name] using http://JetNation.com mobile app

[JetFaninMI]

Bitch about the OL all you want but this is it. What you're seeing now is what it will be. No way you're going to find a quality OL in season. Even if you trade for 1 it's still going to take time to get them in sync. The best thing you can hope for is that this OL can grow into the job and at least be middle of the pack. The time to address this is long gone and the Jets need to pay attention to both Lines in the off-season. It will most likely have to come via the draft because FA lineman pickings look pretty slim next year. Its going to be Edge/OL in the 1st next season and then we will probably get the same old same old for the rest of the draft. Macc better wise when it comes to drafting OL because his job and the future of the franchise(Darnold) depend on it.

[JustInFudge]

12 minutes ago, The Crusher said:

If only there was a way to evaluate and judge draft picks before you choose them. I would call it” scouting.” Never again would you whip a dart at your big board and take what sticks. 

Sounds hokey. If you ask me.

[Jetsfan80]

3 hours ago, sec101row23 said:

It’s damn near impossible to know how the draft will fall to the Jets next year, but drafting an edge rusher in the first is FAR from a certainty right now.  Especially when there appears, at this moment anyway, that there will be some viable options in free agency to sign prior to the draft.  

 

3 hours ago, sec101row23 said:

It’s either an edge guy or an OT in the first round next year.  There is maybe one WR worthy of top 10 discussion next year.  

 

We will draft an ILB or interior DL in the 1st round and people will laud the pick. 

[Jetsfan80]

3 hours ago, DMan77 said:

Here's the only thing I'm interested in now: Is Mac getting better?

Is he trending in the right direction, or has he learned nothing from his first couple of years as a GM?

I would argue he has improved. Not just in the draft but within roster management, FA, contract negotiations, and public relations. 

Is he perfect? Is he a 10/10? No, but who is? Where's this magical GM that's perfect from day 1? Mac has shown improvement year to year, and he's shown a desire to turn this team into a winner. That's good enough for me. 

 

He certainly seemed to finally understand the importance of bringing in athletes this past offseason, I'll give him that.  But suggesting he's maybe gone from a terrible GM to a competent one is still not an assertion I'd agree with.  And showing a "desire to turn this team into a winner" is not a point in his favor.  I don't think any GM's want to build losers. 

[Jetsfan80]

2 hours ago, Scoop24 said:

At some point you dudes are gonna have stop whining and let the rebuilding process play out . 

Rebuild # 3.  We're on rebuild # 3 under this regime.  I'll whine all I want about that, and there's 2 things you can do about it:  1) Nothing, and 2) Like it. 

[UnitedWhofans]

2 hours ago, JiF said:

What good is having Darnold with nothing else? 

Ask the Colts.

[UnitedWhofans]

2 hours ago, #27TheDominator said:

If you want to see it that way, fine.  It's the other 52 players that will determine if that pick works out. 

It’s not just me. That has what has been said among the fans and reporters. The pick of Darnold is ultimately what will decide his legacy. Now he could end up like Gettleman who was fired before the Panthers got to a Super Bowl

[Jetsfan80]

1 hour ago, bitonti said:

it should be noted Cam Robinson blew out his ACL last week and is out for the season 

if the Jets had drafted him they'd have a Jamal Adams sized hole at safety and Qvalue at LT this week

Right, because he'd have been guaranteed to tear his ACL here. 

No Jamal Adams?  Whatever would we do????

[UnitedWhofans]

15 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

 

We will draft an ILB or interior DL in the 1st round and people will laud the pick. 

People thought they were doing that last year. Look what happened

[UnitedWhofans]

Coach comes first, then GM next.  Bowles is going to go first

[Jetster]

2 hours ago, RutgersJetFan said:

Who are you?

If you have to ask than you most certainly are not a TRUE JET FAN.

[Gastineau Lives]

40 minutes ago, bealeb319 said:

Every other team drafts probowlers with every selection

Sent from my [device_name] using http://JetNation.com mobile app
 

So everything is peachy in coffeetown.

[#27TheDominator]

18 minutes ago, UnitedWhofans said:

It’s not just me. That has what has been said among the fans and reporters. The pick of Darnold is ultimately what will decide his legacy. Now he could end up like Gettleman who was fired before the Panthers got to a Super Bowl

Because Cam Newton is a bust? 

[HessStation]

21 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Right, because he'd have been guaranteed to tear his ACL here. 

No Jamal Adams?  Whatever would we do????

Haha You just got Bitonied. Good luck arguing against that logic.

[Integrity28]

3 hours ago, TeddEY said:

My favorite threads are the ones where someone tells you that now, today, is the day it's okay to think something that most people have known for a long time.

100%

i got flamed for years waiting for others to wake up about Rex, so when these types of proclamation posts started pouring in about him it was happy trolling for me

[Scoop24]

2 hours ago, JiF said:

When do foresee the rebuilding process ending?

Just got Franchise QB. Haven’t even got a offseason to build around him . Yet the whining about a team every one knew lacked talent especially on the Oline 

[#27TheDominator]

6 minutes ago, Integrity28 said:

100%

i got flamed for years waiting for others to wake up about Rex, so when these types of proclamation posts started pouring in about him it was happy trolling for me

You deserved it.  Rex is what Rex is, but you can't bail that quick on a guy who took a team with Sanchez at QB to consecutive Conference title games. The earliest you could reasonably have expected him gone was with Tannenbaum.

[BroadwayRay]

4 hours ago, Maxman said:

You don't need to take offensive lineman in the 1st round to have a good offensive line.

This is so true. Let's recall how Macc ended up drafting Stewart: He traded down, sending the Jets' 70th pick to the Vikings for the Vikings 79th and 160th picks, the latter of which he traded away in another trade that led to the picks for Dylan Donahue and Elijah McGuire.

The Vikings used the former Jets pick to select center Pat Elflein, who had a good rookie year as the Vikings starter. (I think he's been injured so far this year.)

[Integrity28]

6 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

You deserved it.  Rex is what Rex is, but you can't bail that quick on a guy who took a team with Sanchez at QB to consecutive Conference title games. The earliest you could reasonably have expected him gone was with Tannenbaum.

Year 3. I was done with him. It was immediately evident that he was a boob that was helped by veterans. As soon as they were gone, he was exposed.

i knee he was narcissistic personality disorder from  day 1

[BroadwayRay]

2 hours ago, HessStation said:

If you break it down by stratgy, draft and free agency, he's been the best in the league the last 5 years. Take into account both he and Mac started with one of the worst rosters in the league

 

David Caldwell

Strategy: First round picks

13: LT (Joeckel doesn't work out but he was considered the top LT on the board at the time)

14: QB

15: Edge

16: CB

17: RB

...you can clearly see what he's trying to do here with an emphasis on premium positions

 

Draft:

13: Cyprien has been a solid NFL player on other teams but tough rookie campaign, mulligan to the rest of his picks but tried to hit on LT to start his career

14: Bortles is the question mark but Lee is a clearcut starting caliber WR (when not hurt), Allen a Pro Bowler (when not hurt),  gets Linder, a borderline PFF All Pro OG/OC in the 3rd round, Smith an All pro in the 5th

15: Fowler is one of the better edge guys in the league when healthy, Yeldon is probably one of the best change of pace backs in the NFL, Cann is a very solid starter. 

16: Elite Shutdown CB, Jack is one of the better ILBs, Ngakoue is a Pro Bowler

17: Elite RB, Starting OT, Smoot was contributing sacks in big games last year, solid slot WR

...between '14 and '17 (during same time frame as Maccagnan) Caldwell drafted 6 Pro Bowlers/4 All Pro/13 starters 

 

Free Agency (during same time frame as Maccagnan '14-)

Campbell: All Pro DL 

Jackson: Pro Bowler DL

Bouye: All Pro CB

Norwell: All Pro OG

...so in the same time frame that Maccagnan has been GM of the Jets, Caldwell has brought a total of 7 All Pro/ 10 Pro Bowlers to the Jags roster including 2 OL, 1 WR, 1 RB, 3 DL, 1 LB and 2 DB (Disclaimer Robinson is no longer with the team).

 

 

 

 

Why are you including 2014 in the comparison? Maccagnan became Jets GM in 2015.

[Adoni Beast]

I’ve defended Mac a lot too. I think he has a good sense of how to build a team. He has had some good FA signings, and hasn’t hamstrung us with bad contracts.

Drafts are crap shoots for every team, but he’s been looking pretty bad. He has to have a monster off season; draft and free agency. 

He’s going to have to draft at least 2 starters again, maybe 3. I think Herndon wil be an eventual starter and good player, as will Shephard. So he got 3 starters this year, 2 the year before. But there are too many holes.

The OLine will need a complete overhaul. 

He needs to find a great, or two good edge rushers.

He’s got next offseason to soldify this team.

[Jetsfan80]

19 minutes ago, Scoop24 said:

Just got Franchise QB. Haven’t even got a offseason to build around him . Yet the whining about a team every one knew lacked talent especially on the Oline 

It lacked talent because of f***ing Mike Maccagnan and his awful drafting for the previous 3 f***ing years.  Holy sh*t.  You're talking like this was Macc's first season on the job!

We should have been building for the time when we'd draft a franchise QB, instead we have a bottom 5 roster because Macc is f***ing terrible.

[Jetsfan80]

Guys, we can't blame Macc.  We're in the middle of a rebuild.  WTF.
 

Holy crap.  I don't want to live on this planet with some of you.