Waste your time on my self-indulgent, overly-long, thoughts on the state of the Jets (plus bonus content)

[ZachEY]

Broken Down by Topic...

Todd Bowles - I’ve long defended Bowles on JN, not really on his merits, but rather the fact that I think blaming everything on the coach is just 1) wishful thinking that things can be made better quickly with one administrate change and 2) hindsight analysis as it’s easy to call something a bad decision after you see the outcome.  We’ve been down this road many times before and it never works and I don’t see a new coach winning with this roster either.  He doesn't inspire a lot of confidence, but he's also not the reason we're losing.  We simply aren't good.  I've long believed that his strategy was, knowing that the team is below average, to try and keep games close and sneak them out in the end.  We can debate the merits of that idea, but it's hardly the rudderless ship that some would have you believe.  Further, not everything bad that happens is the HC's fault.  He's not on the field.  That said, and rightfully so, Bowles is almost certainly gone at the end of this year.  The important thing is that Macc must go with him.

Mike Maccagnan - Our drafting is as close to Idzik level as you can get, especially when you consider Idzik only got two and Mac has now had four.  Hopefully the release of Stewart will be a wake-up call that ensures he doesn’t get another draft to find an okay top pick and essentially nothing else.  The talent level is abysmal on this team, and it's the reason we're neither good now, nor have much beyond the hope of the QB to get excited about.  Look at the drafts, the misses are pervasive.  The equally big issue is that the hits aren't making a difference.  Williams and Adams are nice players, but largely one dimensional, and don't contribute to wins.  There's a reason they were both "best player in the draft" and available at 6.  It's not that you don't want these guys on your team, it's just that, as you can see, they're not moving the needle towards being a contender.  Lee has stepped up a bit too this year, but he's still got a long way to go, and there is not a single Mac 2nd round pick that's contributing to this team today.  Ultimately, even if you like Macc for the Darnold acquisition or whatever else, how do you fire Bowles and let Macc pick a coach?  That means, you're signing on for 3 more years of Macc.  You can't fire him and then fire the coach after one, and you can't force the next GM to keep the coach, we saw that with Idzik/Rex, no?  Macc hasn't earned multiple years, so it's time for him to go.

Sam Darnold - Darnold looks shaky at best.  There are reasons to be optimistic and there are reasons for concern that you can't really just ignore as "21-year-old rookie."  He looks as if he may be good one day, but that it may take a while to get there.  The INT he threw at the end of the game (2nd to last one) was a complete disaster.  Yes, the offensive line failed on the play, but it’s 1st down and you take the sack.  You don’t throw blindly over the middle while falling down.  Dreadful situational awareness.  He's making those mistakes in bunches, and is lucky he didn't get picked off a couple of times before the end of the game.  He gets about as little help as possible, but I also worry about his arm.  Mayfield was rocketing the ball around and Darnold can’t do it.  Last night, I found myself remembering the combine with Mayfield, Rosen, and even Allen launching the ball and Darnold just standing their not throwing.  In that moment, I was glad he'd be gone when we were picking.  Though, I was happy when we got him.  Ultimately, I think Darnold will be at worst, solid, but will he be very good?  I’m not sure.  

The Offense - What’s there to say?  We have no weapons and we can’t protect the QB.  We are going to struggle to move the football and it’s unclear, as there’s not a lot of young talent that’s developing, how and how long it will take to fix it.  You need a fully new Oline, a legitimate WR, a RB, and we still don’t have a TE who can create problems.  This is years of rebuilding... Robbie Anderson can’t be counted on for anything but go-routes, and we can’t protect the QB long enough to run them, and Darnold hasn’t looked great throwing them.  The WR screens were overused last night, but I was pleasantly surprised to see them actually working.  We usually run them right into a DB.  Outside of my hope for Darnold, I like Enunwa and just about no-one else.  Again, how do you fix this? 

The Defense - There are some pieces in place, and there's a chance we can be a good defense at some point in the not too distant future.  However, as currently constructed, the defense looks great until you actually need them.  You can't expect miracles, because they are put in a terrible spot when the offense simply can't move the ball or get points.  But, do they ever get pressure in a big spot?  Do they ever generate turnovers when you really need them?  Adams plays well at the LOS and was looking to have a career game, but once the Browns started airing it out, you forgot he was on the field.  Lee is improved, but still a ways to go, and as mentioned before, Williams is "fine."  Trumaine Johnson won't be worth his contract, and will be gone well before we're good, but the investment was fine because we had the money.  My biggest concern is that the defense isn't there yet, and you still need a guy who can generate pass-rush on his own.  This should be fixable, but any resources we invest on the defensive side of the ball is a resource we could have/should have invested in the anemic offense.

The Game - This morning, it feels a lot less heartbreaking than it did last night.  Sure, we were up 14-0, but we had one real drive in 60 minutes.  We blocked a punt and capitalized which is what you need to do, but if you’re counting on that for half your offense, you’re finished.  The better team won last night, and it sucks that we got dunked on as both the Browns 1st win, and the beginning of the Bayer Mayfield Era, but this game was never as much in our control as the score indicated.  Ultimately, the loss itself is a lot less impactful than a number of things it revealed/confirmed about this team.  We couldn't get pressure when it mattered and we couldn't move the football at all.  We just weren't good, and it didn't have the feel of an off night.  The better team won.

The Penalties - Meh.  Whatever.  Bad teams take bad penalties.

Baker Mayfield - Much will be overhyped about tonight, and understandably so, but he looked the part of a #1 overall pick.  He made some mistakes which will be downplayed, but the guy could be a player.  

The Browns - This is a team on the rise.  They’ve been way down, but for the last two years, we’ve been told, at least we’re not the Browns, but who wouldn’t trade their roster for ours today?  They came to life with Mayfield and even if we’d held them off, Browns fans would have had more to be excited about than us.  They hung tight with the Steelers and Saints, and while this probably isn't their year, you can see where there's an opportunity, if Mayfield is even solid, to take over the division.

Kahlil Mack - Last two weeks are why you don't trade for him.  Imagine having lost all your resources to fix the mess that is this offense.  We may have actually won the game were he on the roster, but compared to the bigger issues, that would have been largely meaningless.

Next Week - Anyone have a reason why we can keep this game close?  Maybe Bortles has a Stafford-like meltdown?

JetNation - The game thread last night became a disaster.  Guys, it's a game and it's a discussion forum.  Getting angry at each other is one thing, but telling people to go **** themselves and to kill themselves and the other meltdowns - get some priorities.  This is a hobby.  It doesn't matter.  I imagine most of us went to work today, and would have done the same had the Jets won.  Perspective... Seriously.

Summation - My biggest concern, as alluded to above, is that I just don't know how you fix all of this.  We'll look better than we did last night at times this season, and we already have, but the problems are pervasive, and if done perfectly, probably take 2-3 drafts to fix.  I guess you start with the offensive line, probably in FA and the draft.  That will hopefully stabilize a lot.  The team feels far away from Monday night, and further away from being a contender.  Jacksonville next week... Oh boy.

If your still reading this, thanks for wasting your time with my nonsense.

[Miss Lonelyhearts]

There’s no ******* way I’m reading this now but it’s nice to know it’s here when I have ten minutes.

[joewilly12]

2 minutes ago, TeddEY said:

JetNation - The game thread last night became a disaster.  Guys, it's a game and it's a discussion forum.  Getting angry at each other is one thing, but telling people to go **** themselves and to kill themselves and the other meltdowns - get some priorities.  This is a hobby.  It doesn't matter.  I imagine most of us went to work today, and would have done the same had the Jets won.  Perspective... Seriously.

I purposely stayed away during and after the game. 

This loss goes down as one of the worst in NY Jets history. 

[ZachEY]

1 minute ago, Miss Lonelyhearts said:

There’s no ******* way I’m reading this now but it’s nice to know it’s here when I have ten minutes.

I look forward to whenever it is that you take a dump.

[nj meadowlands]

Nice job EY - agree with the vast majority of this, although I think the Darnold paragraph is the Jet-hangover talking.  I think this sentence --- "The important thing is that Macc must go with him." --- is the key.  The season was always going to be about Darnold's development.  To me, now it's also about TB and MM both getting the F out.

[ZachEY]

Just now, joewilly12 said:

I purposely stayed away during and after the game. 

This loss goes down as one of the worst in NY Jets history. 

Nah - Because, the actual consequences are almost non-existent.  It's week 3 in a non-playoff season.  It sucks because we gave the Browns their first win, but otherwise, it's a total non-factor.

The loss against the Rex-led Bills in Bowles/Macc's 1st year w/ Fitz, to miss the playoffs was far worse, and that loss doesn't even register.

[Fantasy Island]

Great read.

[Creepy Lurker]

I enjoyed “wasting my time” reading this. I agree with a lot. 

[ZachEY]

1 minute ago, nj meadowlands said:

Nice job EY - agree with the vast majority of this, although I think the Darnold paragraph is the Jet-hangover talking.  I think this sentence --- "The important thing is that Macc must go with him." --- is the key.  The season was always going to be about Darnold's development.  To me, now it's also about TB and MM both getting the F out.

Maybe - I'm fully aware, as you see, that he's getting no help whatsoever.  But, that throw for the pick was a disaster, and it was far from his only ill-advised throw of the night.  I'm a Darnold fan.  I'm being honest about my feelings w/ him from the Combine, but I also never thought we'd get him.  Like I said though, I do think his floor is pretty damn high, based on what we've seen.  But, I've been burned too many times thinking QBs may get better at some of their big deficiencies.  Call Darnold a rookie, but that pick has to scare you - I remember thinking, we need the red, yellow, green lights again.  I hope you're right, but looking at the arm talent, Baker can rip the ball, and Darnold simply can't.

[kdels62]

I was thrilled with your think piece until you said “it doesn’t matter” because then I began to wonder why I read your post and it became a meta spiral.

[ChuckkieB]

The GM has had 4  drafts and the roster is still full of holes.  The coach has had 3+ years and still leads an undisciplined team and is unable to make adjustments during games that cost them game after game.  The sample size is large enough for both to realize they both need to be gone when this season is over.  I don't want either anywhere near building and coaching a team around Darnold.  

[nj meadowlands]

2 minutes ago, TeddEY said:

Maybe - I'm fully aware, as you see, that he's getting no help whatsoever.  But, that throw for the pick was a disaster, and it was far from his only ill-advised throw of the night.  I'm a Darnold fan.  I'm being honest about my feelings w/ him from the Combine, but I also never thought we'd get him.  Like I said though, I do think his floor is pretty damn high, based on what we've seen.  But, I've been burned too many times thinking QBs may get better at some of their big deficiencies.  Call Darnold a rookie, but that pick has to scare you - I remember thinking, we need the red, yellow, green lights again.  I hope you're right, but looking at the arm talent, Baker can rip the ball, and Darnold simply can't.

Yeah, some decisions last night were concerning. But he was also starting his 3rd game in 11 days to start his career, against an underrated defense coached by a savage coordinator. No excuse for the bad decisions, but he's already lightyears beyond the incredibly low measuring stick of the red-yellow-green Sanchez days.

I also addressed this in a separate thread, but I'm not concerned about Darnold's arm strength. Yeah, maybe Baker's is slightly stronger. But Darnold also has plenty of zip when he steps up and rips a slant or skinny post, and has made some impossible sideline throws while on the run. So yeah, I'm not concerned about the arm strength bit. The decisions, I agree were concerned. We'll see how he picks himself up off the mat. It was always a growth year!

[ZachEY]

4 minutes ago, kdels62 said:

I was thrilled with your think piece until you said “it doesn’t matter” because then I began to wonder why I read your post and it became a meta spiral.

Haha.

Obviously, it matters to all of us.  Probably too much.  The game threads always get heated, but last night it was on a disturbing level...

[ZachEY]

4 minutes ago, ChuckkieB said:

The GM has had 4  drafts and the roster is still full of holes.  The coach has had 3+ years and still leads an undisciplined team and is unable to make adjustments during games that cost them game after game.  The sample size is large enough for both to realize they both need to be gone when this season is over.  I don't want either anywhere near building and coaching a team around Darnold.  

Indeed.  I guess, my whole thought process behind defending Bowles, besides what's already stated above, is that I think, he'd be fine in better circumstances and Mac is the one who creates the circumstances.

[Losmeister]

clean pocket step into throw = zinging the ball..  collapsing pocket on all sides...  not so much...

[joewilly12]

17 minutes ago, TeddEY said:

Nah - Because, the actual consequences are almost non-existent.  It's week 3 in a non-playoff season.  It sucks because we gave the Browns their first win, but otherwise, it's a total non-factor.

The loss against the Rex-led Bills in Bowles/Macc's 1st year w/ Fitz, to miss the playoffs was far worse, and that loss doesn't even register.

The Browns had not won a game since December of 2016 this game was on national TV. 

[ZachEY]

Just now, Losmeister said:

clean pocket step into throw = zinging the ball..  collapsing pocket on all sides...  not so much...

Sure, of course.  But lets not act as if every throw Sam made was under duress.  Again, yes, he has no help what-so-ever, but there are times when he also had the opportunity to look better than he has.

[Beerfish]

ummmmm....Where is the bonus content I was promised?

[Losmeister]

1 minute ago, TeddEY said:

Sure, of course.  But lets not act as if every throw Sam made was under duress.  Again, yes, he has no help what-so-ever, but there are times when he also had the opportunity to look better than he has.

Sure...  by the end he was a textbook case of the yips...

[HessStation]

I think last night might be their worst regular season loss of my life-time...(from a symbolic perspective) And before everyone starts on me, I'm old and yes, I watch all the games. I know there's been much bigger losses, but the symbolic way in which they loss, be it the excitement Jets fans were FINALLY starting to feel after 50 years, and given them playing maybe the only other franchise considered to be worse over the last 50 years, and then give the rookie QB situation of Darnold looking so good week 1...and then looking so bad, along with the lead, to Mayfield's Gladiator-like entrance to lighting it up, and then snapping the winless streak, as the Jets future QB throws multiple picks to end the game.

 

 

[nico002]

Come on man... you can’t just throw away the first two games of Sams career out the window.

the arm strength thing... is total crap. He can throw a 15 yard out on a rope... he did it last night.  That’s the hardest throw to make in the nfl and the one that measures arm strength. He tends to have some off balance army throws that look week but that’s not an indication of his ability to rip it...

[ZachEY]

1 minute ago, nico002 said:

Come on man... you can’t just throw away the first two games of Sams career out the window.

the arm strength thing... is total crap. He can throw a 15 yard out on a rope... he did it last night.  That’s the hardest throw to make in the nfl and the one that measures arm strength. He tends to have some off balance army throws that look week but that’s not an indication of his ability to rip it...

On his first play ever he threw a pick six across his body.  He makes really bad decisions.  Hopefully he will grow from it.

I think he will be solid-to-good at worst.  But, lets not pretend like this is all gumdrops and rainbows.

[section314]

5 minutes ago, Losmeister said:

clean pocket step into throw = zinging the ball..  collapsing pocket on all sides...  not so much...

Please add.....receivers(other than Q) who can friggin get open, catch and hold onto the ball.

[ZachEY]

5 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

ummmmm....Where is the bonus content I was promised?

Hot Takes like Baker Mayfield, The Browns, and Kahlil Mack aren't enough for you?

You're also being treated to a reddit style AMA with the author.

I'll start a kickstarter if you need more deep cuts.

[ZachEY]

6 minutes ago, HessStation said:

I think last night might be their worst regular season loss of my life-time...(from a symbolic perspective) And before everyone starts on me, I'm old and yes, I watch all the games. I know there's been much bigger losses, but the symbolic way in which they loss, be it the excitement Jets fans were FINALLY starting to feel after 50 years, and given them playing maybe the only other franchise considered to be worse over the last 50 years, and then give the rookie QB situation of Darnold looking so good week 1...and then looking so bad, along with the lead, to Mayfield's Gladiator-like entrance to lighting it up, and then snapping the winless streak, as the Jets future QB throws multiple picks to end the game.



No question a tough emotional loss.

Life, for good and bad reasons, has offered me enough perspective not to be that bothered by this one.  For which, I suppose I'm grateful.  Though, at the same time, I also wonder if I'll experiences the highs the same way, should they ever come back.

[CTM]

2 minutes ago, TeddEY said:

No question a tough emotional loss.

Life, for good and bad reasons, has offered me enough perspective not to be that bothered by this one.  For which, I suppose I'm grateful.  Though, at the same time, I also wonder if I'll experiences the highs the same way, should they ever come back.

You wont, but that's ok. 

I'm still not seeing the arm concerns with Darnold though. Hes got enough arm, he just not a polished QB.. more a puncher than a boxer at this point. Looks similar to the game tape of last year at college.

[nico002]

18 minutes ago, TeddEY said:

On his first play ever he threw a pick six across his body.  He makes really bad decisions.  Hopefully he will grow from it.

I think he will be solid-to-good at worst.  But, lets not pretend like this is all gumdrops and rainbows.

That was a designed play... how did he do after that?

[RVAJet815]

Excellent post. I agree with pretty much all of it. I woke up this morning less angry but very much resigned to the haplessness of this team. Bowles and MM have to go. I was wishy washy on this before, no longer. It needs to happen.

 

Worst part is I'm now doubting the kid. I don't know If he has it. He's obviously not Petty or even Nagle, but I'm no longer confident he has the goods to be a gamechanger. Come to think of it, I'm not confident in much of anything with this team at the moment other than they'll be the jets.

 

 

[CTM]

12 minutes ago, RVAJet815 said:

 

Worst part is I'm now doubting the kid. I don't know If he has it. He's obviously not Petty or even Nagle, but I'm no longer confident he has the goods to be a gamechanger. Come to think of it, I'm not confident in much of anything with this team at the moment other than they'll be the jets.

 

 

The kid didn't play QB full time till senior year in high school. Then only 2 years in college, the last of which looked a lot like this season so far. How many less reps does he have than Mayfield?

We all seem to have forgotten how raw this kid was watching him the last 2 months.  He's got a lot of talent and unteachable abilties. But he's had no where near the hours of practice and repetition it takes to bring a baseline of professional competency.

Give him time. (I would be in support of bringing an offensive minded HC in here that has a record of developing QB's and not investing all resources in D)

[ZachEY]

18 minutes ago, nico002 said:

That was a designed play... how did he do after that?

Great.

Is it impossible to recognize that there are some issues within his game, while still supporting him, feeling reasonably optimistic, and liking him?

[ZachEY]

30 minutes ago, CTM said:

You wont, but that's ok. 

Yeah, I know.  Though, just learned I have a son on the way, so the curse will continue on.

[joewilly12]

52 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

ummmmm....Where is the bonus content I was promised?

Here it is........

[RVAJet815]

The kid didn't play QB full time till senior year in high school. Then only 2 years in college, the last of which looked a lot like this season so far. How many less reps does he have than Mayfield?

We all seem to have forgotten how raw this kid was watching him the last 2 months.  He's got a lot of talent and unteachable abilties. But he's had no where near the hours of practice and repetition it takes to bring a baseline of professional competency.

Give him time. (I would be in support of bringing an offensive minded HC in here that has a record of developing QB's and not investing all resources in D)

I think we all want a strong offensive HC for once. I question if it will ever happen though. Even if it does, can they protect Sam, can they find talent to play with Sam, and will the D go to hell when/if it does are all valid questions that will need to be answered.

 

I'm sorry. I don't mean to be argumentative. I am about as down on the prospects of this team as I've been in a while. I asked myself last night why I bother. I still haven't found an answer.

 

[CTM]

15 minutes ago, TeddEY said:

Yeah, I know.  Though, just learned I have a son on the way, so the curse will continue on.

Congrats!!! 

Maybe he'll rebel and follow another team

[Sonny Werblin]

Mac's draft results are damming. Unless Darnold looks like a star by the end of the season, shepherd becomes stalwart DE, and Herndon and nickerson become productive, reliable starters, there is no defense for his failures. He needs this draft class to excel to argue that he's figured it out and learned from his mistakes.

Bowles is clearly at a turning point. The mistakes and undisciplined play has to end. If it does, he keeps his job. If it doesn't, it just means that while the players "say" they respect bowles, they really do not. And if they don't respect him, that's on him and he has to go.