Waste your time on my self-indulgent, overly-long, thoughts on the state of the Jets (plus bonus content)

[kelly]

1 hour ago, Beerfish said:

ummmmm....Where is the bonus content I was promised?

Bud Light beer fridges open to joy of Baker Mayfield, Browns fans throughout Cleveland          https://www.yahoo.com/sports/bug-light-beer-fridges-open-joy-baker-mayfield-browns-fans-throughout-cleveland-040852250.html?.tsrc=fauxdal 

 

 

[redlichtie]

@TeddEY outstanding post.....hard to argue with any of it

the Jet Nation ‘get some perspective’ especially worthy of everyone’s attention.

11 days to mull over that sh*t show.....gawd!

This team needs a culture change away from “same old Jets’ but last night was as utterly predictable a SOJ outcome as it’s possible to imagine, you just knew we’d be the team that they’d get the win against....so depressing 

it’s utterly obvious Bowles doesn’t have that culture change in him

[ZachEY]

22 minutes ago, CTM said:

Congrats!!! 

Maybe he'll rebel and follow another team

Probably the early 2020s Cleveland Browns Dynasty!

[slowmoe57]

This was as draining a game on me mentally as any game I have watched for some time. Lack of discipline the inability to readjust was frustrating. Once Mayfield came in I lost total confidence and I was correct. But to say this is the worst loss in team history is a stretch. I am already over this one. 

 

On to Jacksonville

[varjet]

23 minutes ago, Sonny Werblin said:

Mac's draft results are damming. Unless Darnold looks like a star by the end of the season, shepherd becomes stalwart DE, and Herndon and nickerson become productive, reliable starters, there is no defense for his failures. He needs this draft class to excel to argue that he's figured it out and learned from his mistakes.

Bowles is clearly at a turning point. The mistakes and undisciplined play has to end. If it does, he keeps his job. If it doesn't, it just means that while the players "say" they respect bowles, they really do not. And if they don't respect him, that's on him and he has to go.

Its easy to forget that Matt Stafford has been playing for Detroit for 10 years.  They talk about him and the team as turning the corner.  

This is not a 2 year turnaround for Darnold.  This team is too far in the hole.  This is a long-term process.  I don't see how you pay big money to a Leonard Williams.  go with Anderson and Shepherd.  

[redlichtie]

2 hours ago, TeddEY said:

Maybe - I'm fully aware, as you see, that he's getting no help whatsoever.  But, that throw for the pick was a disaster, and it was far from his only ill-advised throw of the night.  I'm a Darnold fan.  I'm being honest about my feelings w/ him from the Combine, but I also never thought we'd get him.  Like I said though, I do think his floor is pretty damn high, based on what we've seen.  But, I've been burned too many times thinking QBs may get better at some of their big deficiencies.  Call Darnold a rookie, but that pick has to scare you - I remember thinking, we need the red, yellow, green lights again.  I hope you're right, but looking at the arm talent, Baker can rip the ball, and Darnold simply can't.

It was one of the things that showed up in his college tape, Darnold doesn’t set his feet, settle in the pocket and step into his throws. That works when he’s on the move on designed plays and we’ve seen he has uncanny ability on the move(as he showed at USC) but you can’t do that on every snap in the NFL and last night he was skittish as hell back there(as he showed at USC). It might be that he can learn that in the NFL but what if he doesn’t?

Mayfield was able to do that(as he did at OU)and you saw the difference, ripping it with clean tight spirals into tight windows....we’ll see how he does when he meets a D with an actual speed rush but last night he showed what he showed in college....so too unfortunately did Darnold

[ChuckkieB]

Wow.....am I actually hearing rumblings about Darnold after only 3 games (in 11 days - almost unprecedented in NFL history)??? The kid has almost no supporting cast and a terrible HC.  There's lots of blame to go around after these 3 games, but Darnold should not be the main target.   

[CTM]

40 minutes ago, redlichtie said:

It was one of the things that showed up in his college tape, Darnold doesn’t set his feet, settle in the pocket and step into his throws. That works when he’s on the move on designed plays and we’ve seen he has uncanny ability on the move(as he showed at USC) but you can’t do that on every snap in the NFL and last night he was skittish as hell back there. It might be that he can learn that in the NFL but what if he doesn’t?

Mayfield was able to do that(as he did at OU)and you saw the difference, ripping it with clean tight spirals into tight windows....we’ll see how he does when he meets a D with an actual speed rush but last night he showed what he showed in college....so too unfortunately did Darnold

100%, he looks just like his college tape good and bad. He wasn't a polished passer and we can't expect him to be for sometime. He's got a lot of work to do.

[Sperm Edwards]

3 hours ago, TeddEY said:

Mike Maccagnan -

[...] how do you fire Bowles and let Macc pick a coach?  That means, you're signing on for 3 more years of Macc.  You can't fire him and then fire the coach after one, and you can't force the next GM to keep the coach, we saw that with Idzik/Rex, no?  Macc hasn't earned multiple years, so it's time for him to go.

This part sticks out for me, since I've been saying this for some time myself so you know I 100% agree. Letting Macc pick a head coach = a Macc extension.

Macc had one (alleged) qualification: being a draft guru after so many years of scouting. He demonstrably stinks at that one thing. What in any way makes him now qualified to pick a head coach on top of continuing the rest of the job he's done so poorly?

They both needed to go after last season. Though a housecleaning was needed back in '15, neither of these two should have been hired as successors in the first place. 

[jetstream23]

2 hours ago, Miss Lonelyhearts said:

There’s no ******* way I’m reading this now but it’s nice to know it’s here when I have ten minutes.

3 drink minimum before I come back and start reading this.

[Paradis]

2 hours ago, joewilly12 said:

This loss goes down as one of the worst in NY Jets history. 

You're pathetic. 

[joewilly12]

4 minutes ago, Paradis said:

You're pathetic. 

Truth hurt. 

[#27TheDominator]

2 hours ago, Losmeister said:

clean pocket step into throw = zinging the ball..  collapsing pocket on all sides...  not so much...

 

33 minutes ago, redlichtie said:

It was one of the things that showed up in his college tape, Darnold doesn’t set his feet, settle in the pocket and step into his throws. That works when he’s on the move on designed plays and we’ve seen he has uncanny ability on the move(as he showed at USC) but you can’t do that on every snap in the NFL and last night he was skittish as hell back there(as he showed at USC). It might be that he can learn that in the NFL but what if he doesn’t?

Mayfield was able to do that(as he did at OU)and you saw the difference, ripping it with clean tight spirals into tight windows....we’ll see how he does when he meets a D with an actual speed rush but last night he showed what he showed in college....so too unfortunately did Darnold

Yep.  I don't think it was so much he was under duress, as he never just grips is and rips it.  He is always rolling around looking for a wide open guy.  Usually, with a rookie QB, they will set up some plays to make an easy read for who has 1-on-1 coverage and then the QB can just drop back and drill it. The Jets don't seem to be doing that. 

[ZachEY]

26 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

This part sticks out for me, since I've been saying this for some time myself so you know I 100% agree. Letting Macc pick a head coach = a Macc extension.

Macc had one (alleged) qualification: being a draft guru after so many years of scouting. He demonstrably stinks at that one thing. What in any way makes him now qualified to pick a head coach on top of continuing the rest of the job he's done so poorly?

 They both needed to go after last season. Though a housecleaning was needed back then, neither of these two should have been hired as successors in the first place. 

At this point, Macc has done appreciably worse in the draft than chalk picks from Kiper or McShay's board.

I'm not even worried about his choice of a HC, I'm worried that giving him that choice means he gets 3 more years worth of drafts to come away with nothing from.

[ZachEY]

28 minutes ago, jetstream23 said:

3 drink minimum before I come back and start reading this.

Words hurt.

[UntouchableCrew]

2 hours ago, TeddEY said:

Broken Down by Topic...

Todd Bowles - I’ve long defended Bowles on JN, not really on his merits, but rather the fact that I think blaming everything on the coach is just 1) wishful thinking that things can be made better quickly with one administrate change and 2) hindsight analysis as it’s easy to call something a bad decision after you see the outcome.  We’ve been down this road many times before and it never works and I don’t see a new coach winning with this roster either.  He doesn't inspire a lot of confidence, but he's also not the reason we're losing.  We simply aren't good.  I've long believed that his strategy was, knowing that the team is below average, to try and keep games close and sneak them out in the end.  We can debate the merits of that idea, but it's hardly the rudderless ship that some would have you believe.  Further, not everything bad that happens is the HC's fault.  He's not on the field.  That said, and rightfully so, Bowles is almost certainly gone at the end of this year.  The important thing is that Macc must go with him.

I agree. Bowles is, in my opinion, a bad coach. Probably in the bottom third of the league, 20-25 range. But he is not responsible for this team being so bad and replacing him won't lead to some instantaneous turnaround.

2 hours ago, TeddEY said:

Mike Maccagnan - Our drafting is as close to Idzik level as you can get, especially when you consider Idzik only got two and Mac has now had four.  Hopefully the release of Stewart will be a wake-up call that ensures he doesn’t get another draft to find an okay top pick and essentially nothing else.  The talent level is abysmal on this team, and it's the reason we're neither good now, nor have much beyond the hope of the QB to get excited about.  Look at the drafts, the misses are pervasive.  The equally big issue is that the hits aren't making a difference.  Williams and Adams are nice players, but largely one dimensional, and don't contribute to wins.  There's a reason they were both "best player in the draft" and available at 6.  It's not that you don't want these guys on your team, it's just that, as you can see, they're not moving the needle towards being a contender.  Lee has stepped up a bit too this year, but he's still got a long way to go, and there is not a single Mac 2nd round pick that's contributing to this team today.  Ultimately, even if you like Macc for the Darnold acquisition or whatever else, how do you fire Bowles and let Macc pick a coach?  That means, you're signing on for 3 more years of Macc.  You can't fire him and then fire the coach after one, and you can't force the next GM to keep the coach, we saw that with Idzik/Rex, no?  Macc hasn't earned multiple years, so it's time for him to go.

Maccagnan has been a disaster. When you look over his resume from top to bottom during his time with this team there's simply not justification for keeping him around. He's done a poor job in almost every aspect of the position.

2 hours ago, TeddEY said:

Sam Darnold - Darnold looks shaky at best.  There are reasons to be optimistic and there are reasons for concern that you can't really just ignore as "21-year-old rookie."  He looks as if he may be good one day, but that it may take a while to get there.  The INT he threw at the end of the game (2nd to last one) was a complete disaster.  Yes, the offensive line failed on the play, but it’s 1st down and you take the sack.  You don’t throw blindly over the middle while falling down.  Dreadful situational awareness.  He's making those mistakes in bunches, and is lucky he didn't get picked off a couple of times before the end of the game.  He gets about as little help as possible, but I also worry about his arm.  Mayfield was rocketing the ball around and Darnold can’t do it.  Last night, I found myself remembering the combine with Mayfield, Rosen, and even Allen launching the ball and Darnold just standing their not throwing.  In that moment, I was glad he'd be gone when we were picking.  Though, I was happy when we got him.  Ultimately, I think Darnold will be at worst, solid, but will he be very good?  I’m not sure.  

I still like Darnold's talent a lot. I don't think his arm strength is an issue. I am worried we're going to ruin him.

2 hours ago, TeddEY said:

The Offense - What’s there to say?  We have no weapons and we can’t protect the QB.  We are going to struggle to move the football and it’s unclear, as there’s not a lot of young talent that’s developing, how and how long it will take to fix it.  You need a fully new Oline, a legitimate WR, a RB, and we still don’t have a TE who can create problems.  This is years of rebuilding... Robbie Anderson can’t be counted on for anything but go-routes, and we can’t protect the QB long enough to run them, and Darnold hasn’t looked great throwing them.  The WR screens were overused last night, but I was pleasantly surprised to see them actually working.  We usually run them right into a DB.  Outside of my hope for Darnold, I like Enunwa and just about no-one else.  Again, how do you fix this? 

I think the biggest issue is the offensive line. We need an infusion of talent at the skill positions for sure, but if we had a strong offensive line a lot of the underlying issues plaguing the offense would be diminished. I think Mac's failure to address the line this offseason was just crippling. I don't know if the situation is quite as dire as you make it out to be, but we have serious issues.

2 hours ago, TeddEY said:

The Defense - There are some pieces in place, and there's a chance we can be a good defense at some point in the not too distant future.  However, as currently constructed, the defense looks great until you actually need them.  You can't expect miracles, because they are put in a terrible spot when the offense simply can't move the ball or get points.  But, do they ever get pressure in a big spot?  Do they ever generate turnovers when you really need them?  Adams plays well at the LOS and was looking to have a career game, but once the Browns started airing it out, you forgot he was on the field.  Lee is improved, but still a ways to go, and as mentioned before, Williams is "fine."  Trumaine Johnson won't be worth his contract, and will be gone well before we're good, but the investment was fine because we had the money.  My biggest concern is that the defense isn't there yet, and you still need a guy who can generate pass-rush on his own.  This should be fixable, but any resources we invest on the defensive side of the ball is a resource we could have/should have invested in the anemic offense.

Given the amount of resources put into this defense it should be better -- but I think it's legitimately pretty good and isn't far away from being great. If you added a real edge rusher to this unit I think it's a pretty scary defense, high picks invested in low value positions regardless... But I completely agree with your points about how the anemic offense puts them in terrible spots.

The reality is we need to do a better job of drafting talent and need to put an emphasis on building the offensive side of the ball. It's not going to be a quick fix, but it's also not rocket science either.

[MaxAF]

2 hours ago, joewilly12 said:

I purposely stayed away during and after the game. 

This loss goes down as one of the worst in NY Jets history. 

Much booze mixed with a disastrous Jets loss makes for violent posts. Dumb sh*t!

[JustInFudge]

None of is this wrong.  Good points on it all.  However, I think Sam is fine and Todd is god awful.

How do you fix it you ask?  Acquire good Football players. It’s literally that easy.  Pick the right guys, land the right guys in FA.  It’s so simple the Jags and Rams are now the best teams in the NFL. 

[MaxAF]

2 hours ago, TeddEY said:

Broken Down by Topic...

Todd Bowles - I’ve long defended Bowles on JN, not really on his merits, but rather the fact that I think blaming everything on the coach is just 1) wishful thinking that things can be made better quickly with one administrate change and 2) hindsight analysis as it’s easy to call something a bad decision after you see the outcome.  We’ve been down this road many times before and it never works and I don’t see a new coach winning with this roster either.  He doesn't inspire a lot of confidence, but he's also not the reason we're losing.  We simply aren't good.  I've long believed that his strategy was, knowing that the team is below average, to try and keep games close and sneak them out in the end.  We can debate the merits of that idea, but it's hardly the rudderless ship that some would have you believe.  Further, not everything bad that happens is the HC's fault.  He's not on the field.  That said, and rightfully so, Bowles is almost certainly gone at the end of this year.  The important thing is that Macc must go with him.

Mike Maccagnan - Our drafting is as close to Idzik level as you can get, especially when you consider Idzik only got two and Mac has now had four.  Hopefully the release of Stewart will be a wake-up call that ensures he doesn’t get another draft to find an okay top pick and essentially nothing else.  The talent level is abysmal on this team, and it's the reason we're neither good now, nor have much beyond the hope of the QB to get excited about.  Look at the drafts, the misses are pervasive.  The equally big issue is that the hits aren't making a difference.  Williams and Adams are nice players, but largely one dimensional, and don't contribute to wins.  There's a reason they were both "best player in the draft" and available at 6.  It's not that you don't want these guys on your team, it's just that, as you can see, they're not moving the needle towards being a contender.  Lee has stepped up a bit too this year, but he's still got a long way to go, and there is not a single Mac 2nd round pick that's contributing to this team today.  Ultimately, even if you like Macc for the Darnold acquisition or whatever else, how do you fire Bowles and let Macc pick a coach?  That means, you're signing on for 3 more years of Macc.  You can't fire him and then fire the coach after one, and you can't force the next GM to keep the coach, we saw that with Idzik/Rex, no?  Macc hasn't earned multiple years, so it's time for him to go.

Sam Darnold - Darnold looks shaky at best.  There are reasons to be optimistic and there are reasons for concern that you can't really just ignore as "21-year-old rookie."  He looks as if he may be good one day, but that it may take a while to get there.  The INT he threw at the end of the game (2nd to last one) was a complete disaster.  Yes, the offensive line failed on the play, but it’s 1st down and you take the sack.  You don’t throw blindly over the middle while falling down.  Dreadful situational awareness.  He's making those mistakes in bunches, and is lucky he didn't get picked off a couple of times before the end of the game.  He gets about as little help as possible, but I also worry about his arm.  Mayfield was rocketing the ball around and Darnold can’t do it.  Last night, I found myself remembering the combine with Mayfield, Rosen, and even Allen launching the ball and Darnold just standing their not throwing.  In that moment, I was glad he'd be gone when we were picking.  Though, I was happy when we got him.  Ultimately, I think Darnold will be at worst, solid, but will he be very good?  I’m not sure.  

The Offense - What’s there to say?  We have no weapons and we can’t protect the QB.  We are going to struggle to move the football and it’s unclear, as there’s not a lot of young talent that’s developing, how and how long it will take to fix it.  You need a fully new Oline, a legitimate WR, a RB, and we still don’t have a TE who can create problems.  This is years of rebuilding... Robbie Anderson can’t be counted on for anything but go-routes, and we can’t protect the QB long enough to run them, and Darnold hasn’t looked great throwing them.  The WR screens were overused last night, but I was pleasantly surprised to see them actually working.  We usually run them right into a DB.  Outside of my hope for Darnold, I like Enunwa and just about no-one else.  Again, how do you fix this? 

The Defense - There are some pieces in place, and there's a chance we can be a good defense at some point in the not too distant future.  However, as currently constructed, the defense looks great until you actually need them.  You can't expect miracles, because they are put in a terrible spot when the offense simply can't move the ball or get points.  But, do they ever get pressure in a big spot?  Do they ever generate turnovers when you really need them?  Adams plays well at the LOS and was looking to have a career game, but once the Browns started airing it out, you forgot he was on the field.  Lee is improved, but still a ways to go, and as mentioned before, Williams is "fine."  Trumaine Johnson won't be worth his contract, and will be gone well before we're good, but the investment was fine because we had the money.  My biggest concern is that the defense isn't there yet, and you still need a guy who can generate pass-rush on his own.  This should be fixable, but any resources we invest on the defensive side of the ball is a resource we could have/should have invested in the anemic offense.

The Game - This morning, it feels a lot less heartbreaking than it did last night.  Sure, we were up 14-0, but we had one real drive in 60 minutes.  We blocked a punt and capitalized which is what you need to do, but if you’re counting on that for half your offense, you’re finished.  The better team won last night, and it sucks that we got dunked on as both the Browns 1st win, and the beginning of the Bayer Mayfield Era, but this game was never as much in our control as the score indicated.  Ultimately, the loss itself is a lot less impactful than a number of things it revealed/confirmed about this team.  We couldn't get pressure when it mattered and we couldn't move the football at all.  We just weren't good, and it didn't have the feel of an off night.  The better team won.

The Penalties - Meh.  Whatever.  Bad teams take bad penalties.

Baker Mayfield - Much will be overhyped about tonight, and understandably so, but he looked the part of a #1 overall pick.  He made some mistakes which will be downplayed, but the guy could be a player.  

The Browns - This is a team on the rise.  They’ve been way down, but for the last two years, we’ve been told, at least we’re not the Browns, but who wouldn’t trade their roster for ours today?  They came to life with Mayfield and even if we’d held them off, Browns fans would have had more to be excited about than us.  They hung tight with the Steelers and Saints, and while this probably isn't their year, you can see where there's an opportunity, if Mayfield is even solid, to take over the division.

Kahlil Mack - Last two weeks are why you don't trade for him.  Imagine having lost all your resources to fix the mess that is this offense.  We may have actually won the game were he on the roster, but compared to the bigger issues, that would have been largely meaningless.

Next Week - Anyone have a reason why we can keep this game close?  Maybe Bortles has a Stafford-like meltdown?

JetNation - The game thread last night became a disaster.  Guys, it's a game and it's a discussion forum.  Getting angry at each other is one thing, but telling people to go **** themselves and to kill themselves and the other meltdowns - get some priorities.  This is a hobby.  It doesn't matter.  I imagine most of us went to work today, and would have done the same had the Jets won.  Perspective... Seriously.

Summation - My biggest concern, as alluded to above, is that I just don't know how you fix all of this.  We'll look better than we did last night at times this season, and we already have, but the problems are pervasive, and if done perfectly, probably take 2-3 drafts to fix.  I guess you start with the offensive line, probably in FA and the draft.  That will hopefully stabilize a lot.  The team feels far away from Monday night, and further away from being a contender.  Jacksonville next week... Oh boy.

If your still reading this, thanks for wasting your time with my nonsense.

Good post. Good assessment. Oh well, on to Jacksonville. Yikes!!!!

[joewilly12]

6 minutes ago, MaxAF said:

Much booze mixed with a disastrous Jets loss makes for violent posts. Dumb sh*t!

I agree and it continues today after the fact. 

We are all in this together we may not all agree on the same reasons for the loss but at the end of the day we lost. 

[ZachEY]

4 minutes ago, JiF said:

None of is this wrong.  Good points on it all.  However, I think Sam is fine and Todd is god awful.

How do you fix it you ask?  Acquire good Football players. It’s literally that easy.  Pick the right guys, land the right guys in FA.  It’s so simple the Jags and Rams are now the best teams in the NFL. 

Why haven't the Jets thought of this?

[JustInFudge]

1 minute ago, TeddEY said:

Why haven't the Jets thought of this?

Oh they have and the problem is, they think they do.  So, clean house and hire me and @HessStation

[Sperm Edwards]

42 minutes ago, TeddEY said:

At this point, Macc has done appreciably worse in the draft than chalk picks from Kiper or McShay's board.

I'm not even worried about his choice of a HC, I'm worried that giving him that choice means he gets 3 more years worth of drafts to come away with nothing from.

I am not exaggerating when I say I truly believe an obsessed high school kid, armed with watching Saturday college football, internet access to reports, and who doesn't have an unhealthy obsession with fantasy football stats, wouldn't do any worse. 

Plus they aren't going to bring the baggage that a former scout has, where he's penalized for being wrong, so value can take a back seat to certainty. Except when the GM sees what he wants to see with certain players (e.g. Hackenberg), and even that goes out the window.

[UntouchableCrew]

10 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

I am not exaggerating when I say I truly believe an obsessed high school kid, armed with watching Saturday college football, internet access to reports, and who doesn't have an unhealthy obsession with fantasy football stats, wouldn't do any worse. 

I think there are posters on this board that could probably do better, at least with the early round picks.

[BallinPB]

At least we aren't the Cleveland Browns has now gone to at least we aren't the Buffalo Bills.

[Integrity28]

1 minute ago, BallinPB said:

At least we aren't the Cleveland Browns has now gone to at least we aren't the Buffalo Bills.

Careful, we have 2 chances to sh*t down our leg vs. them.

[flgreen]

2 hours ago, ChuckkieB said:

Wow.....am I actually hearing rumblings about Darnold after only 3 games (in 11 days - almost unprecedented in NFL history)??? The kid has almost no supporting cast and a terrible HC.  There's lots of blame to go around after these 3 games, but Darnold should not be the main target.   

Browns played 3 games in 12 days didn't they?

[BroadwayRay]

4 hours ago, TeddEY said:

Sam Darnold - Darnold looks shaky at best.  There are reasons to be optimistic and there are reasons for concern that you can't really just ignore as "21-year-old rookie."  

I agreed with a lot of what you said, but in regards to this part ... Sorry, but yeah, the fact that he's a 21-year-old rookie with two college seasons under his belt really is a big deal. And yes, you can ignore a lot of the turbulence he's going to go through because of that fact, especially three games into the season. 

[SR24]

Here's an insane stat about Mac-   In his 2015-2017 drafts out of the 9 players he selected from rounds 2-4 only 2 are still on the roster. How can you rebuild with a GM who can't draft?!?!?!?!?!!?! 

[jetstream23]

2 hours ago, TeddEY said:

Words hurt.

To be clear, my desire to  be in a better state of mind has nothing to do with you or your post.  It's me trying to dull the pain and prepare for the doses of reality that I'm expecting you provided.

[ChuckkieB]

9 minutes ago, flgreen said:

Browns played 3 games in 12 days didn't they?

And they have 1 win just like the Jets do.  Not sure what you're trying to say.  Furthermore, Darnold actually prepped, played, and got knocked around for 3 games.  Mayfield held a clipboard for all but 2 quarters.  I'm not trying to make excuses for Darnold, but there is a difference.  

[Klecko73isGod]

4 hours ago, TeddEY said:

Broken Down by Topic...

Todd Bowles - I’ve long defended Bowles on JN, not really on his merits, but rather the fact that I think blaming everything on the coach is just 1) wishful thinking that things can be made better quickly with one administrate change and 2) hindsight analysis as it’s easy to call something a bad decision after you see the outcome.  We’ve been down this road many times before and it never works and I don’t see a new coach winning with this roster either.  He doesn't inspire a lot of confidence, but he's also not the reason we're losing.  We simply aren't good.  I've long believed that his strategy was, knowing that the team is below average, to try and keep games close and sneak them out in the end.  We can debate the merits of that idea, but it's hardly the rudderless ship that some would have you believe.  Further, not everything bad that happens is the HC's fault.  He's not on the field.  That said, and rightfully so, Bowles is almost certainly gone at the end of this year.  The important thing is that Macc must go with him.

Mike Maccagnan - Our drafting is as close to Idzik level as you can get, especially when you consider Idzik only got two and Mac has now had four.  Hopefully the release of Stewart will be a wake-up call that ensures he doesn’t get another draft to find an okay top pick and essentially nothing else.  The talent level is abysmal on this team, and it's the reason we're neither good now, nor have much beyond the hope of the QB to get excited about.  Look at the drafts, the misses are pervasive.  The equally big issue is that the hits aren't making a difference.  Williams and Adams are nice players, but largely one dimensional, and don't contribute to wins.  There's a reason they were both "best player in the draft" and available at 6.  It's not that you don't want these guys on your team, it's just that, as you can see, they're not moving the needle towards being a contender.  Lee has stepped up a bit too this year, but he's still got a long way to go, and there is not a single Mac 2nd round pick that's contributing to this team today.  Ultimately, even if you like Macc for the Darnold acquisition or whatever else, how do you fire Bowles and let Macc pick a coach?  That means, you're signing on for 3 more years of Macc.  You can't fire him and then fire the coach after one, and you can't force the next GM to keep the coach, we saw that with Idzik/Rex, no?  Macc hasn't earned multiple years, so it's time for him to go.

Sam Darnold - Darnold looks shaky at best.  There are reasons to be optimistic and there are reasons for concern that you can't really just ignore as "21-year-old rookie."  He looks as if he may be good one day, but that it may take a while to get there.  The INT he threw at the end of the game (2nd to last one) was a complete disaster.  Yes, the offensive line failed on the play, but it’s 1st down and you take the sack.  You don’t throw blindly over the middle while falling down.  Dreadful situational awareness.  He's making those mistakes in bunches, and is lucky he didn't get picked off a couple of times before the end of the game.  He gets about as little help as possible, but I also worry about his arm.  Mayfield was rocketing the ball around and Darnold can’t do it.  Last night, I found myself remembering the combine with Mayfield, Rosen, and even Allen launching the ball and Darnold just standing their not throwing.  In that moment, I was glad he'd be gone when we were picking.  Though, I was happy when we got him.  Ultimately, I think Darnold will be at worst, solid, but will he be very good?  I’m not sure.  

The Offense - What’s there to say?  We have no weapons and we can’t protect the QB.  We are going to struggle to move the football and it’s unclear, as there’s not a lot of young talent that’s developing, how and how long it will take to fix it.  You need a fully new Oline, a legitimate WR, a RB, and we still don’t have a TE who can create problems.  This is years of rebuilding... Robbie Anderson can’t be counted on for anything but go-routes, and we can’t protect the QB long enough to run them, and Darnold hasn’t looked great throwing them.  The WR screens were overused last night, but I was pleasantly surprised to see them actually working.  We usually run them right into a DB.  Outside of my hope for Darnold, I like Enunwa and just about no-one else.  Again, how do you fix this? 

The Defense - There are some pieces in place, and there's a chance we can be a good defense at some point in the not too distant future.  However, as currently constructed, the defense looks great until you actually need them.  You can't expect miracles, because they are put in a terrible spot when the offense simply can't move the ball or get points.  But, do they ever get pressure in a big spot?  Do they ever generate turnovers when you really need them?  Adams plays well at the LOS and was looking to have a career game, but once the Browns started airing it out, you forgot he was on the field.  Lee is improved, but still a ways to go, and as mentioned before, Williams is "fine."  Trumaine Johnson won't be worth his contract, and will be gone well before we're good, but the investment was fine because we had the money.  My biggest concern is that the defense isn't there yet, and you still need a guy who can generate pass-rush on his own.  This should be fixable, but any resources we invest on the defensive side of the ball is a resource we could have/should have invested in the anemic offense.

The Game - This morning, it feels a lot less heartbreaking than it did last night.  Sure, we were up 14-0, but we had one real drive in 60 minutes.  We blocked a punt and capitalized which is what you need to do, but if you’re counting on that for half your offense, you’re finished.  The better team won last night, and it sucks that we got dunked on as both the Browns 1st win, and the beginning of the Bayer Mayfield Era, but this game was never as much in our control as the score indicated.  Ultimately, the loss itself is a lot less impactful than a number of things it revealed/confirmed about this team.  We couldn't get pressure when it mattered and we couldn't move the football at all.  We just weren't good, and it didn't have the feel of an off night.  The better team won.

The Penalties - Meh.  Whatever.  Bad teams take bad penalties.

Baker Mayfield - Much will be overhyped about tonight, and understandably so, but he looked the part of a #1 overall pick.  He made some mistakes which will be downplayed, but the guy could be a player.  

The Browns - This is a team on the rise.  They’ve been way down, but for the last two years, we’ve been told, at least we’re not the Browns, but who wouldn’t trade their roster for ours today?  They came to life with Mayfield and even if we’d held them off, Browns fans would have had more to be excited about than us.  They hung tight with the Steelers and Saints, and while this probably isn't their year, you can see where there's an opportunity, if Mayfield is even solid, to take over the division.

Kahlil Mack - Last two weeks are why you don't trade for him.  Imagine having lost all your resources to fix the mess that is this offense.  We may have actually won the game were he on the roster, but compared to the bigger issues, that would have been largely meaningless.

Next Week - Anyone have a reason why we can keep this game close?  Maybe Bortles has a Stafford-like meltdown?

JetNation - The game thread last night became a disaster.  Guys, it's a game and it's a discussion forum.  Getting angry at each other is one thing, but telling people to go **** themselves and to kill themselves and the other meltdowns - get some priorities.  This is a hobby.  It doesn't matter.  I imagine most of us went to work today, and would have done the same had the Jets won.  Perspective... Seriously.

Summation - My biggest concern, as alluded to above, is that I just don't know how you fix all of this.  We'll look better than we did last night at times this season, and we already have, but the problems are pervasive, and if done perfectly, probably take 2-3 drafts to fix.  I guess you start with the offensive line, probably in FA and the draft.  That will hopefully stabilize a lot.  The team feels far away from Monday night, and further away from being a contender.  Jacksonville next week... Oh boy.

If your still reading this, thanks for wasting your time with my nonsense.

TL; DR

[Sperm Edwards]

2 hours ago, TeddEY said:

At this point, Macc has done appreciably worse in the draft than chalk picks from Kiper or McShay's board.

I'm not even worried about his choice of a HC, I'm worried that giving him that choice means he gets 3 more years worth of drafts to come away with nothing from.

With a meh HC - if he's got a half-decent pair of coordinators (and maybe even without) - a team can make some noise if the roster is really good. We made the playoffs 3x in Herm's first 4 seasons, including our last division title, ffs.

[ZachEY]

56 minutes ago, BallinPB said:

At least we aren't the Cleveland Browns has now gone to at least we aren't the Buffalo Bills.

Too soon...

[thshadow]

One thing I slightly disagreed with is "look how excited Cleveland is about Mayfield" and "I'm concerned about Sam."

Presumably you were just as excited about Sam after his first start as Cleveland is about Mayfield.  It takes many games (seasons?) to truly know what you have in a QB.

My biggest concern is that he looked a bit shell-shocked by the end of the game (as you point out, see his 1st interception).

You can definitely tell when he's comfortable back there - he either throws the ball right away, or his head moves around to look at secondary targets.  Yesterday, he seemed to just lock in, delay, and then maybe throw.