JustInFudge Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 24 minutes ago, nyjunc said: Carolina went to the super bowl because they had their team already put together and the coach already in place. The GM did very little other than make them worse by getting rid of players like Steve Smith. He was fired a year after that SB run. This man thought the Giants could be a playoff team last year and made his moves based on that thinking- they then won 5 games. He's gotten rid of 4 YOUNG all pro(not pro bowl but all pro) players since taking over but has kept an old QB who has never been an all pro. It's Macc and it's not close Oh, so, it didnt count when he was the GM of a team who went to the Super Bowl? Dave Gettleman as GM - 56-39 Mike Maccagnan as GM - 24-40 You're right, it's not close at all. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
More Cowbell Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 10 hours ago, jetsons said: That's why Cleveland Fired their GM & hired a new one. That is not the reason. The reason was because they were a laughingstock. They had not won any games. I think it was 1 game in 2 years. If your team sucks that bad, you get fired. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustInFudge Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 13 minutes ago, Jetster said: Let's wait & see how we look with a 2nd year QB, a very good RB, a better LG, a slot WR, Quincy back, an all pro LB, 1 of either Q.Williams, Bosa or Allen, a 2nd year up & coming TE in Herndon, the 2 third rounders, high 4, and most importantly an offensive head coach & an NFL caliber defensive coach in Gregg Williams. Bowles will go down as the worst head coaching choice the Jets had made since Rich Kotite. I know I tend to lean towards optimistic, but fellow Jet fans, how can you not be excited with the direction of this team with Sam Darnold as our starting QB instead of going into a season with Mark Sanchez, Geno Smith, Ryan Fitzpatrick or Josh McCown? Darnold is all in man! The guy lives & breaths sports, has chosen to be a QB & has NEVER failed at anything he's chosen. There was reason guys like Watt, Rogers, Brady had high praise after our games. Pros see greatness, they know what to look for, they've been around great players. With Gase guiding him, Sam Darnold is going to be a great pro. He's an outlier & he doesn't accept failure. That's all well and good. I'm excited to watch Sam Darnold's career as well but the question was who's better GM and the answer is quite easy as we sit here today and discuss it. I know everyone wants to laugh and point at Gettleman for taking the OROY next great RB in the NFL over Darnold but why does the same not apply to Mac for taking a Safety over 2 QB's who just led their teams to the playoffs and 1 looks to be all world? Right now, we're hoping Sam pans out. The scary part is, the GM who is overseeing this operation could easily ruin this kid. That said, I wont deny Bell and Crowder are steps in the right direction of giving Sam some help but those are small deposits into an empty bank account. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Creepy Lurker Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 13 minutes ago, nyjunc said: We have a lot more talent on the roster than people realized due to how awful Bowles was. A decent HC has last year's team in playoff contention not out of it by October. That move alone gives us more wins. I disagree about playoff contention. A GREAT coach would have had our weak roster overperform and be in playoff contention. I do agree that any other decent head coach would have gotten us more wins but probably only 2 more. Bowles was horrific but so was Mac’s roster building. It’s delusional to think that we had a good roster last year. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
More Cowbell Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 10 hours ago, T0mShane said: I'm going to say that the team that had six Pro Bowlers this year, each of whom they drafted, has a good handle on the draft The draft is supposed to give you a core of upumg cheap players that help you.win. Part of that iis that you actually have them play for you. I would be very upset if I was a KC fan about the players we drafted recently. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
More Cowbell Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 10 hours ago, Jet Nut said: You dont know that hes going to break any RB record. RB no matter what is never near as important and hard to find as a FQB. A RB is good, especially a big bruiser if he lasts 7 years, never expect him to be at the top of his game that long. A FQB can be on the top of his game and productive past 10 seasons. Yes, they did it with a less than top QB. When did we say, wow, they were lead by a RB and he won that team a SB. A team without a QB leading the way has won when? The Pat's this year, Tampa, Baltimore Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
More Cowbell Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 9 hours ago, Beerfish said: Get back to me on this in two years. Franchise QB is always better than franchise RB. You really need both. Every team need to be able to run the ball as well as throw it. If you are not a threat to run, you are getting blitzed every down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T0mShane Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 50 minutes ago, JiF said: Mac, who during his tenure has the 3rd worst record in the NFL is better than a GM who oversaw a team who went to the Super Bowl because Mac has a plan? Can someone catch me up to speed on what his plan is exactly? The plan: Use Ryan Fitzpatrick as bridge QB but don’t draft QB to bridge to Extend and build around Ryan Fitzpatrick! Actually, cancel that Fitzpatrick thing HACKENBERG!!!! Actually, build around Josh McCown Yeah, definitely McCown Surround McCown with safety help BEG KIRK COUSINS TO TAKE $130 MIL CASH Cancel that Cousins thing Draft Rosen or Mayfield whatev Gettleman did what now DRAFT DARNOLD and act like that was the plan all along Also draft a thirty year old DT Give Odell Beckham money to an ILB Be the lone bidder for Leveon Bell. 1 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nyjunc Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 18 minutes ago, JiF said: Oh, so, it didnt count when he was the GM of a team who went to the Super Bowl? Dave Gettleman as GM - 56-39 Mike Maccagnan as GM - 24-40 You're right, it's not close at all. Again, that team had it's core built already and had their HC in place. Gettleman did very little, macc inherited the worst HC we have seen since kotite. You cannot simply compare win/loss records 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T0mShane Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 10 minutes ago, More Cowbell said: The draft is supposed to give you a core of upumg cheap players that help you.win. Part of that iis that you actually have them play for you. I would be very upset if I was a KC fan about the players we drafted recently. You were in the AFC Championship game with a 23 year old league MVP at QB who’s still three years away from getting significant money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nyjunc Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 11 minutes ago, Creepy Lurker said: I disagree about playoff contention. A GREAT coach would have had our weak roster overperform and be in playoff contention. I do agree that any other decent head coach would have gotten us more wins but probably only 2 more. Bowles was horrific but so was Mac’s roster building. It’s delusional to think that we had a good roster last year. We would have won 3-4 more each of the last 2 years with a decent HC. There's a lot more talent than people realize. We'll see it this fall. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
More Cowbell Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 1 hour ago, Jetster said: How long have you been following pro football? QB always trumps RB. Like an Ace trumps a Jack. So the Giants now have Sequan Barkley & an old broken down Eli. Barkleys career might be 4-5 years of top play, than the Giants will have to pay him 17 mill per to keep him. The Patriots have won 6 Super Bowls with RBs picked off the street. The Eagles won with Ajayi & Blount. Than the Pats drafted Sony Michel at the bottom of the 1st. The Giants defense is a sieve, they won't win anything in that division for years. Taking Barkley over Darnold & keeping Eli under that contract was a blunder of epic proportions that will affect them for years. I will agree with you that the calculation of of we will be ok with Eli for another year was a mistake but it was just this last season. I have a strong feeling they walk into this season with either Rosen or Haskins. When that happens they will be thought to be smart in taking Barkley. It is not what the Jets should have done under any circumstances but I am in a family of Giant fans and they all think they can be back in the Suoer Bowl race in 2 or 3 years mostly because they have Barkley . They are very happy about him. Barkley imo is a once in a generation running back. What he did as a rookie was startling. He did all of that with virtually no help and a team in turmoil. He is goi g to be a guy that drives that team as well as any QB. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nyjunc Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 3 minutes ago, T0mShane said: The plan: Use Ryan Fitzpatrick as bridge QB but don’t draft QB to bridge to Extend and build around Ryan Fitzpatrick! Actually, cancel that Fitzpatrick thing HACKENBERG!!!! Actually, build around Josh McCown Yeah, definitely McCown Surround McCown with safety help BEG KIRK COUSINS TO TAKE $130 MIL CASH Cancel that Cousins thing Draft Rosen or Mayfield whatev Gettleman did what now DRAFT DARNOLD and act like that was the plan all along Also draft a thirty year old DT Give Odell Beckham money to an ILB Be the lone bidder for Leveon Bell. So they were building around Fitz and McCown? ??. Ok. Yeah they didn't have a plan to draft a QB, he didn't get a high pick for Richardson which was part of the package to move up to take Darnold. You have to overpay in FA except when bringing in the best offensive weapon the Jets franchise has ever had but again he gets no credit. The results over the next few years will determine his success or failure. Not the results with an awful HC during a total rebuild. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustInFudge Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 14 minutes ago, nyjunc said: Again, that team had it's core built already and had their HC in place. Gettleman did very little, macc inherited the worst HC we have seen since kotite. You cannot simply compare win/loss records Agreed. Screw results in a results driven world. It's the fluffy stuff that matters!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jet Nut Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 21 minutes ago, More Cowbell said: The Pat's this year, Tampa, Baltimore Not true. Pats werent lead by a RB. Lets see a RB do anything on that team without Brady at QB Tampa? Baltimore? What? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#27TheDominator Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 11 hours ago, joewilly12 said: Neither has won anything yet. This isn't really true. One of them has won an NFC Championship. It wasn't Maccagnan. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T0mShane Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 8 minutes ago, nyjunc said: So they were building around Fitz and McCown? ??. Ok. Yeah they didn't have a plan to draft a QB, he didn't get a high pick for Richardson which was part of the package to move up to take Darnold. You have to overpay in FA except when bringing in the best offensive weapon the Jets franchise has ever had but again he gets no credit. The results over the next few years will determine his success or failure. Not the results with an awful HC during a total rebuild. What’s more likely: 1. Mike Maccagnan, upon being hired as the last-ditch option by the Jets, divined a Machiavellian plot to draft a then high school senior named Sam Darnold in Year Four of his generally underwhelming stewardship, but in order to do so he’d have to a. leave the QB position vacant and b. suppress the win totals to preserve a high-enough draft slot so as to remain in position to draft this QB. —or— 2. A GM with a truly miserable record of player evaluation has no actual long-term plan and is just flying by the seat of his nuts from draft to draft and, due to the grace of God, Darnold landed in his lap one day and some fans want to retroactively attribute this piece of good fortune to a “plan,” of which there is no other evidence of actually existing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#27TheDominator Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 2 hours ago, T0mShane said: What’s more likely: 1. Mike Maccagnan, upon being hired as the last-ditch option by the Jets, divined a Machiavellian plot to draft a then high school senior named Sam Darnold in Year Four of his generally underwhelming stewardship, but in order to do so he’d have to a. leave the QB position vacant and b. suppress the win totals to preserve a high-enough draft slot so as to remain in position to draft this QB. —or— 2. A GM with a truly miserable record of player evaluation has no actual long-term plan and is just flying by the seat of his nuts from draft to draft and, due to the grace of God, Darnold landed in his lap one day and some fans want to retroactively attribute this piece of good fortune to a “plan,” of which there is no other evidence of actually existing. Dude, get it straight. The plan was immediate. His very first draft pick was Leonard Williams. He only selected Williams in 2015 so that he could trade Richardson for a pick 3 years later to make it possible to draft Darnold. Rome wasn't built in a day. You can't expect to get a QB in your first there years as GM. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbatesman Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 46 minutes ago, More Cowbell said: The draft is supposed to give you a core of upumg cheap players that help you.win. Part of that iis that you actually have them play for you. I would be very upset if I was a KC fan about the players we drafted recently. KC FAN [just watched my team go 12-4 and host the AFCCG thanks to a second-year QB who won league MVP and threw for 5,000 yards and 50 TDs]: I am very upset about the players we drafted recently 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joewilly12 Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 17 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said: This isn't really true. One of them has won an NFC Championship. It wasn't Maccagnan. I thought we were talking Jets-Giants. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustInFudge Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 3 minutes ago, dbatesman said: KC FAN [just watched my team go 12-4 and host the AFCCG thanks to a second-year QB who won league MVP and threw for 5,000 yards and 50 TDs]: I am very upset about the players we drafted recently I bet they lose sleep over the picks they gave up to draft Mahomes. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleedin Green Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 43 minutes ago, T0mShane said: The plan: Use Ryan Fitzpatrick as bridge QB but don’t draft QB to bridge to Extend and build around Ryan Fitzpatrick! Actually, cancel that Fitzpatrick thing HACKENBERG!!!! Actually, build around Josh McCown Yeah, definitely McCown Surround McCown with safety help BEG KIRK COUSINS TO TAKE $130 MIL CASH Cancel that Cousins thing Draft Rosen or Mayfield whatev Gettleman did what now DRAFT DARNOLD and act like that was the plan all along Also draft a thirty year old DT Give Odell Beckham money to an ILB Be the lone bidder for Leveon Bell. Those other things all happened in years -3, -2, and -1, so obviously don't count. Get with the facts bud. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustInFudge Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 22 minutes ago, T0mShane said: What’s more likely: 1. Mike Maccagnan, upon being hired as the last-ditch option by the Jets, divined a Machiavellian plot to draft a then high school senior named Sam Darnold in Year Four of his generally underwhelming stewardship, but in order to do so he’d have to a. leave the QB position vacant and b. suppress the win totals to preserve a high-enough draft slot so as to remain in position to draft this QB. —or— 2. A GM with a truly miserable record of player evaluation has no actual long-term plan and is just flying by the seat of his nuts from draft to draft and, due to the grace of God, Darnold landed in his lap one day and some fans want to retroactively attribute this piece of good fortune to a “plan,” of which there is no other evidence of actually existing. Most great plans in this world are realized in surprise out of sheer hope but also still leave some doubt in question. Big Mac on draft day; "guys, Sam Darnold just fell to us. I'm going to take him. Are you guys good with that?" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleedin Green Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 Guys, everyone knows Gettleman is stoopit for waiting a year to take a QB, but Maccagnan is brilliant for waiting 4 years to take a QB. Sorry to have to drop the facts on you so hard like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
More Cowbell Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 53 minutes ago, Jet Nut said: Not true. Pats werent lead by a RB. Lets see a RB do anything on that team without Brady at QB Tampa? Baltimore? What? Your question was what team without a QB leading the way won when. The Pat's certainly were not led by Brady this year. To put it bluntly, Brady sucked in the SB outside of one deep pass where Gronk made a circus like catch with a defender all over him. Was Baltimore led by Flacco or that killer defense? Same for Tampa. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peebag Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 The Titanic or the Lusitania - pick just one! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joewilly12 Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 Just now, peebag said: The Titanic or the Lusitania - pick just one! Titantic or Hindenburg and someone already used this............. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peebag Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 9 minutes ago, joewilly12 said: Titantic or Hindenburg and someone already used this............. I'm sorry Mr.Willy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamesr Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 2 hours ago, nyjunc said: There's a lot of work to be done but the plan is working so far. Year 1: shed all the old, expensive players. Done Year 2: get the QB and give the team great cap space. Done Year 3: surround the QB with talent and upgrade the OL. Looking pretty good so far. All of this means nothing without wins but we are on the right track and at minimum should be a playoff contender this year with a really bright future. And you know that this was his plan because ...? Just because it's what happened doesn't mean that it was his plan from the start. E.g. why is Year 1 and Year 2 mutually exclusive? He could have achieved both in Year 1 if he had tried, so why didn't he? (Shed players / get QB). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jet Nut Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 37 minutes ago, More Cowbell said: Your question was what team without a QB leading the way won when. The Pat's certainly were not led by Brady this year. To put it bluntly, Brady sucked in the SB outside of one deep pass where Gronk made a circus like catch with a defender all over him. Was Baltimore led by Flacco or that killer defense? Same for Tampa. Yeah, Brady sucked. He leads his team to a 6th and we're going to nitpick the final game. Baltimore was absolutely lead by Flacco and a defense. That's not by a RB. I'm not getting your point. You haven't made a point that a top back gets you to a championship. The w at to one is a qb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Harper Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 12 hours ago, WayneChrebet80 said: Only if he doesnt find a QB post Eli. Hes likely going to have Haskins available at 6 if he wants to go that route. Not that easy to find a QB. For example, if they trade up for Haskins, he would still have to be as good or better than Darnold, and I don't think that will happen. But I certainly have been wrong before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nyjunc Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 1 hour ago, JiF said: Agreed. Screw results in a results driven world. It's the fluffy stuff that matters!!! Gettleman took over a team in Carolina that was pretty much built and ready to start winning. With the Giants he thought the same thing, how is it working out? It's not fair to pretend like all things were equal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nyjunc Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 31 minutes ago, jamesr said: And you know that this was his plan because ...? Just because it's what happened doesn't mean that it was his plan from the start. E.g. why is Year 1 and Year 2 mutually exclusive? He could have achieved both in Year 1 if he had tried, so why didn't he? (Shed players / get QB). It's been discussed for years about their plan and so far it is behind executed incredibly well. It's worked on paper, now let's see it work on the field. If it doesn't he won't be around much longer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scoop24 Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 1 hour ago, dbatesman said: KC FAN [just watched my team go 12-4 and host the AFCCG thanks to a second-year QB who won league MVP and threw for 5,000 yards and 50 TDs]: I am very upset about the players we drafted recently That’s true . But they still can be plenty upset with hunt and now hill. DV cases for everybody lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JetsFanatic Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 14 hours ago, T0mShane said: Agreed. Taking Barkley over Darnold is a hell of a lot easier to explain than taking Jamal Adams over Pat Mahomes at this point. You're crazy, they are two totally separate situations. In most mocks, Mahomes wasn't a top 5 pick. I love fans, they have great 20/20 hindsight. Besides we still got what I think will be a franchise QB and a great defensive player who was a legit top 5 pick in the 2017 draft. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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