PFF Grades

[New York Mick]

40 minutes ago, CTM said:

 

 

Because they aren't 2 different questions.

We are talking about

1) allocation of draft capital

 2) allocation of salary cap.

Because Jamal Adams is going to want a premium at contract re-up time based largely on his draft position. If you think he's not, remember that Jamal's base is a 22M contract based on being drafted #6. Marcus Maye's base is 4M (drafted same year, similiar position and 1 round later) , meaning even if thier on field performance was exactly the same Jamal is going to be significantly more expensive to sign based on a much higher starting point and a much more "celebrity" (both of which are driven by his high draft slot)

 

It’s Jet fans looking for another reason to complain. The team gives us enough reasons so there’s no need to look for more. 
Adams is a good player period. 

[New York Mick]

1 hour ago, slats said:

A good player can also be a bad draft pick. Jamal Adams is a very good player, he was also a bad draft pick. 

This is how the NFL values safeties: 

Franchise Tags

QB: $24.865 million
RB: $11.214 million
WR: $16.787 million
TE: $10.387 million
OL: $14.067 million
DE: $17.128 million
DT: $15.209 million
LB: $15.443 million
CB: $16.022 million
S: $11.15 million
K/P: $4.971 million

Lowest value on defense by far, lower than any other positions except TE and K/P. That's not a position you take with the 6th overall pick. As good as Adams is, his selection is part of why Maccagnan's now unemployed. When the time comes, are you going to be looking for the Jets to pay Adams $12M/year+? Some will. He'll also be subject to a lot of the same conversations we're having about Leo Williams right now. 

And what does this have to do with Adam’s ability to play? Absolutely nothing.  

[CTM]

4 minutes ago, New York Mick said:

It’s Jet fans looking for another reason to complain. The team gives us enough reasons so there’s no need to look for more. 
Adams is a good player period. 

Mac is gone. I'm done compalinging about where Adams was drafted other then acknowledgin the impact it's going to have on whether or not we resign him and for what amount. Which is going to be a heated debate around here and in Florham Park.

[jetstream23]

22 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

You guys have waited 37 games for Jamal Adams to show up in the fourth quarter of a football game and even that was when he came unblocked on a safety blitz *after* the Cowboys walked down the field twice for easy TDs against the defense Adams allegedly “leads.” Kudos on your patience, I guess. 

 

Not every game is won on the last play.  Difference makers show up throughout the game but aren't noticed by fans who only focus on QBs, Edge rushers and fantasy football stats.  Even in the limited number of wins by a very bad Jets team last season, you could see Jamal Adams was a force.  It may not jump off the page to you but 6 tackles (1 TFL) and an INT helped win that game in Detroit during Week 1 last year.  In a win over Indy Adams had 4 tackles, 3 PD vs Luck, and forced a fumble which makes a difference in a one score game.  In the win over Buffalo he recovered a fumble and had 2 QB hits.  That makes a difference in a 27-23 game.

[jetstream23]

31 minutes ago, CTM said:

Lol, yes hearts and minds was tongue in cheek

And again, the draft position is going to drive the starting point for the next contract negotiation. That is the issue.

I think his Pro Bowl status will drive the starting point.  If I'm the Jets I'd expect the starting point to be contracts for recent Pro Bowl safeties.  If I'm Jamal Adams' agent I remind the Jets that they're lining him up a linebacker something like 30-40% of the time.

Who are the best players on the Jets defense?  Is the D being carried by some elite Edge rushers, CBs or interior DLinemen?  How is this even an average Defense without a stud at ANY of those positions?  Are we now saying that Leo Williams or Jordan Jenkins are the guys who have elevated this D to 14th in Points Against?  I'd argue that Jamal Adams is the straw that stirs the drink on this D, especially since CJ Mosely hasn't played more than 2 quarters of football all season.

[New York Mick]

11 minutes ago, CTM said:

Mac is gone. I'm done compalinging about where Adams was drafted other then acknowledgin the impact it's going to have on whether or not we resign him and for what amount. Which is going to be a heated debate around here and in Florham Park.

His ability on the field is going to dictate his contact. Nothing else. He’ll get what GMs think he’s worth. 

[CTM]

2 minutes ago, jetstream23 said:

I think his Pro Bowl status will drive the starting point.  If I'm the Jets I'd expect the starting point to be contracts for recent Pro Bowl safeties.  If I'm Jamal Adams' agent I remind the Jets that they're lining him up a linebacker something like 30-40% of the time.

Ok lets start there, if JA was drafted in the second round and has 25k social media followers + no media attention vs 650k and plenty of media attention, is he a pro bowl alternate last year? I think no.

[HawkeyeJet]

21 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

I've been calling Jamal a good Linebacker for a while now.  Glad to see someone finally embracing this.  

The problem isn't someone calling Adams a good player.  The problem is people suggesting he'll be worthy of an extension paying him top Safety money, which at the moment exceeds $14M a year. 

Additionally, I find a problem with people fighting hard against the idea of trading such a player to improve the team in areas of need.  If he's as good as you guys like to say he is, then surely someone out there will give us a 1st & 4th for him?

That linebacker take is the stuff that just makes me shake my head. 

It doesn't bother me if people hate him because he's an outspoken flamboyant character. It doesn't bother me if people hate him because he's not Mahomes or Watson.  It doesn't bother me if people hate him because they don't think he should have been the 6th pick.

What I don't get is trying to constantly sell him short of what he really is, a very good, quite possibly elite, safety.  He's not a glorified linebacker.  He's not a someone who struggles in coverage.  He is very good.  Everyone but Jets fans get that.

[Jetsfan80]

9 minutes ago, HawkeyeJet said:

He's not a someone who struggles in coverage.  He is very good.  

Strange, because every time I watch him play, he seems to constantly be a step slow in coverage, especially on throws over the middle.  We allow chunk yardage in the passing game week in and week out, yet Jamal doesn't share responsibility in that?

Meanwhile, when he freelances at the LOS all the time, it puts added stress on the rest of the secondary.  

[jetstream23]

55 minutes ago, CTM said:

Ok lets start there, if JA was drafted in the second round and has 25k social media followers + no media attention vs 650k and plenty of media attention, is he a pro bowl alternate last year? I think no.

I have no idea.  That's a hypothetical and you're certainly entitled to your opinion.  I do know one thing, if he was a 2nd rounder he'd probably be considered the Jets best 2nd round pick ever by fans even with the same exact play and stats.  He's a great player, he's been a leader and he's been ice off the field with no issues.  The hate for him is mind-boggling to me and it's largely for things he has zero control over - the spot he was drafted, the position he plays, the players taken before him.

He's currently rated 1st in coverage for all Safeties.  If we had that in 1999 when Victor Green let "Easy" Ed McCaffrey loose down the middle of the field in Denver the Jets would have gone to the Super Bowl.  We move Jamal Adams all over the field.  He rushes, he covers, he is a stud against the run.  The guy does everything......well, everything except make some Jets fans happy.

[TheNuuFaaolaExperience]

1 hour ago, slats said:

A good player can also be a bad draft pick. Jamal Adams is a very good player, he was also a bad draft pick. 

This is how the NFL values safeties: 

Franchise Tags

QB: $24.865 million
RB: $11.214 million
WR: $16.787 million
TE: $10.387 million
OL: $14.067 million
DE: $17.128 million
DT: $15.209 million
LB: $15.443 million
CB: $16.022 million
S: $11.15 million
K/P: $4.971 million

Lowest value on defense by far, lower than any other positions except TE and K/P. That's not a position you take with the 6th overall pick. As good as Adams is, his selection is part of why Maccagnan's now unemployed. When the time comes, are you going to be looking for the Jets to pay Adams $12M/year+? Some will. He'll also be subject to a lot of the same conversations we're having about Leo Williams right now. 

Taking Adams is dead last on reasons why Macc failed as a GM. The vast majority of his picks not being on the Jets roster, or even an NFL roster is why he failed. 

[nycdan]

[Some Jets fans]:

"This girl was into me but I don't like Pink Floyd so I said no"

[thshadow]

31 minutes ago, CTM said:

Mac is gone. I'm done compalinging about where Adams was drafted other then acknowledgin the impact it's going to have on whether or not we resign him and for what amount. Which is going to be a heated debate around here and in Florham Park.

If you think he's an excellent safety, but question whether it's worth it to pay what the market will say he's worth when his rookie deal is up - I feel like most people on here would agree with you.  I certainly do.  Half of the people here argue he's an excellent safety, the other half are (apparently) arguing that he's not worth $14mm - well guess what, those can *both* be true!

I'm pretty sure if presmal were here, he'd just want us all to get along.

 

[Jetsfan80]

1 minute ago, TheNuuFaaolaExperience said:

Taking Adams is dead last on reasons why Macc failed as a GM. The vast majority of his picks not being on the Jets roster, or even an NFL roster is why he failed. 

Taking Adams when you need a QB, with Watson and Mahomes on the board, and not doing so because you still believe in Christian Hackenberg, is by FAR the # 1 reason why Macc deserved to get fired.  

It was bad enough taking Hackenberg in the 2nd despite his resume suggesting he wasn't even draftable.  It was an even worse sin to still believe in him in Year 2 after it became clear to everyone that he was terrible.  That requires either tremendous stupidity, an extreme unwillingness to dump a sunken cost, or a little of both.  

[Jetsfan80]

Just now, thshadow said:

If you think he's an excellent safety, but question whether it's worth it to pay what the market will say he's worth when his rookie deal is up - I feel like most people on here would agree with you.  I certainly do.  Half of the people here argue he's an excellent safety, the other half are (apparently) arguing that he's not worth $14mm - well guess what, those can *both* be true!

I'm pretty sure if presmal were here, he'd just want us all to get along.

 

 

Ask that same pro-Adams group if they're willing to trade Jamal Adams, and see what happens.  

[Losmeister]

2 hours ago, slats said:

How much does the defense fall off with Rontez Miles in at SS? 

could have made the same play at the end of the game...  unblocked to the QB

[Miss Lonelyhearts]

4 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

Ask that same pro-Adams group if they're willing to trade Jamal Adams, and see what happens.  

adams and darnold for mahomes WHO SAYS NO

[Losmeister]

just to add that I like PFF cos it attempts to be objective...   its one of several tools you can use to try to determine the performance of a player....

but , was 2 or 3 weeks ago?, rated Maye as the highest rated safety for that week in a blowout loss where , frankly he seemed pretty AVG to my eyes...  so, sometimes i wonder what the formula is....

[HawkeyeJet]

25 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Strange, because every time I watch him play, he seems to constantly be a step slow in coverage, especially on throws over the middle.  We allow chunk yardage in the passing game week in and week out, yet Jamal doesn't share responsibility in that?

Meanwhile, when he freelances at the LOS all the time, it puts added stress on the rest of the secondary.  

Name me a team in the NFL that doesn't allow "chunk plays" in the pass game.

The average yards per completion of every completed pass this season in the NFL is 11.6 yards.  Average YPC against the Jets is 11.5.   

The Jets are in the middle of the pack in passing plays over 20 yards and closer to the top than the middle in passes allowed over 40 yards and opposing QB rating.

Infer what you want with those stats, but I don't think they support your theory that the Jets are just getting gashed left and right in the passing game more than anyone else.

[Jetsfan80]

Just now, HawkeyeJet said:

Name me a team in the NFL that doesn't allow "chunk plays" in the pass game.

The average yards per completion of every completed pass this season in the NFL is 11.6 yards.  Average YPC against the Jets is 11.5.   

The Jets are in the middle of the pack in passing plays over 20 yards and closer to the top than the middle in passes allowed over 40 yards and opposing QB rating.

Infer what you want with those stats, but I don't think they support your theory that the Jets are just getting gashed left and right in the passing game more than anyone else.

 

Name a team that invests so much draft capital on the defense only to see it suck as much as the Jets.  

Again, Adams isn't a problem, but he surely isn't a solution.  Trade him to a team that might view him as a solution so we can get to work drafting a LT, EDGE, CB and WR....positions that actually impact the W/L column in the NFL in 2019. 

[jetstream23]

35 minutes ago, nycdan said:

[Some Jets fans]:

"This girl was into me but I don't like Pink Floyd so I said no"

 

She can't be hot....because there were 3 hotter girls who walked into the bar after her.

 

[Losmeister]

fake boobies

[jetstream23]

14 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

Name a team that invests so much draft capital on the defense only to see it suck as much as the Jets.  

Again, Adams isn't a problem, but he surely isn't a solution.  Trade him to a team that might view him as a solution so we can get to work drafting a LT, EDGE, CB and WR....positions that actually impact the W/L column in the NFL in 2019. 

We have one win in 2019.  It wasn't in the win column until Adams put Dak Prescott on his ass.  If a QB is considered the premium position of value....then a guy stopping said QB is kinda valuable too.

[Jetsfan80]

8 minutes ago, jetstream23 said:

We have one win in 2019.  It wasn't in the win column until Adams put Dak Prescott on his ass.  If a QB is considered the premium position of value....then a guy stopping said QB is kinda valuable too.

Problem is you guys are giving Adams too much credit for the W.  He deserves a gameball for sure, but so did Q and the rest of the secondary.  You're also ignoring the argument that this was the FIRST time in his entire career that Adams played a direct role in a victory.  He needs to duplicate this effort a lot more times to demonstrate he's part of the solution for this team.

It didn't hurt that the Cowboys were missing Cooper and Cobb, as well as a couple key OL.   

[Losmeister]

9 minutes ago, jetstream23 said:

until Adams put Dak Prescott on his ass.

every SS on every team coulda made the same play. EVERY ONE. TOTALLY UNBLOCKED. NO SKILL REQUIRED.

[jetstream23]

1 hour ago, jetstream23 said:

 

Not every game is won on the last play.  Difference makers show up throughout the game but aren't noticed by fans who only focus on QBs, Edge rushers and fantasy football stats.  Even in the limited number of wins by a very bad Jets team last season, you could see Jamal Adams was a force.  It may not jump off the page to you but 6 tackles (1 TFL) and an INT helped win that game in Detroit during Week 1 last year.  In a win over Indy Adams had 4 tackles, 3 PD vs Luck, and forced a fumble which makes a difference in a one score game.  In the win over Buffalo he recovered a fumble and had 2 QB hits.  That makes a difference in a 27-23 game.

 

2 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Problem is you guys are giving Adams too much credit for the W.  He deserves a gameball for sure, but so did Q and the rest of the secondary.  You're also ignoring the argument that this was the FIRST time in his entire career that Adams played a direct role in a victory.  He needs to duplicate this effort a lot more times to demonstrate he's part of the solution for this team.

It didn't hurt that the Cowboys were missing Cooper and Cobb, as well as a couple key OL.   

Did you read my post above?  Does anybody watch football before the 4th Quarter anymore or are games going the way of millennial attention spans and making plays earlier than the final 5 minutes of a game doesn't matter?

I don't care if the Cowboys were missing guys.  It wasn't Zeke Elliott or Dak.  The Jets were missing their #1 defender in Mosely, don't have very good CBs, didn't have Henry Anderson, etc.  Injuries are just excuses IMHO.

Adams is 100% part of the solution on Defense ranked 14th against whose only other "playmakers" are stud Edge rushers like Jordan Jenkins, a dominant interior force like Leo Williams and a shutdown CB like Trumaine Johnson.  Who the heck on the Jets D do opposing Offensive Coordinators really worry about?

[jetstream23]

5 minutes ago, Losmeister said:

every SS on every team coulda made the same play. EVERY ONE. TOTALLY UNBLOCKED. NO SKILL REQUIRED.

Then why don't they?

The reason Adams was unblocked was because he stunted and setup the OLinemen.  The timing was perfect.

[Jetsfan80]

1 minute ago, jetstream23 said:

Adams is 100% part of the solution on Defense ranked 14th against whose only other "playmakers" are stud Edge rushers like Jordan Jenkins, a dominant interior force like Leo Williams and a shutdown CB like Trumaine Johnson.  Who the heck on the Jets D do opposing Offensive Coordinators really worry about?

Just because our defense as a whole is "meh", that doesn't elevate Adams to being a long-term solution.  It's BECAUSE we don't have a good EDGE or CB1 that Adams is currently our 2nd most important defender behind Mosley.  Once you get an EDGE or CB1, even average ones, Adams moves down to our 4th most important defender.  You don't pay those guys to be the centerpiece of your team.  

[Jetsfan80]

1 minute ago, jetstream23 said:

Then why don't they?

The reason Adams was unblocked was because he stunted and setup the OLinemen.  The timing was perfect.

Adams spending so much time around the LOS makes the job of the secondary a whole lot tougher.  We're lucky Darryl Roberts and Marcus Maye had good games as well, or we're not even in a position for Adams to make that play.  

This freelancing stuff that Adams fans like to credit him for are exactly the type of job he shouldn't be doing as a Safety and supposed defensive centerpiece.  It was a very good play, and he got appropriate credit for it.  But you aren't looking at the big picture at all on this.  

[slats]

1 hour ago, New York Mick said:

And what does this have to do with Adam’s ability to play? Absolutely nothing.  

It has everything to do with the value of the safety position, though, and what kind of resources the rest of the league generally invests in it. Teams don't generally draft strong safeties #6 overall, and they don't generally pay them $12M/year. 

I don't even dislike the guy. He is a good player, and I'm happy to have him playing here. Still a bad draft pick, though. Still not a guy I'd be interested in even paying his fifth year option (which, because he's a safety, probably won't be too bad). But I'd be looking to move him between right now and next year's trade deadline if there's anyone out there willing to give the Jets a first rounder for him. Save the five-digit annual contract for a position of greater impact, use the first round pick on a position of greater impact, draft a nice SS somewhere around the fourth round and put him in the starting lineup. And by this time next year, I'll be talking about being willing to take less - if he's still here. 

If Joe Douglas wants to build thru the draft, trading Jamal for capitol ASAP would be a good plan. 

[varjet]

I don’t see the Jets trading Adams. 

They will at least want to win next year, and next year he will be a relatively cheap relatively very good player for the defense.   

For Jalen Ramsey picks maybe.  

But the NFL is all about making it to the Super Bowl.  The amazing thing about the Patriots is that they continue to compete without mortgaging their future.  The Rams have mortgaged their future, for the Super Bowl and their PSLs.  

Adams was picked by Mac as both the safe pick and because at the time he thought the Jets could win near term.  Adams is like a running back.  Your have to think long and hard about giving him a second contract.  

[Losmeister]

30 minutes ago, jetstream23 said:

Then why don't they?

The reason Adams was unblocked was because he stunted and setup the OLinemen.  The timing was perfect.

we disagree. shrug. GO JETS!

[Losmeister]

21 minutes ago, varjet said:

For Jalen Ramsey picks maybe.

all the other 30 teams are not as stoopit and desperate as the Rams.

2 #1's is horrrrrrrennnnndous.

We'd be lucky to get a single #1.

 

[Green DNA]

2 hours ago, jetstream23 said:

 

 

 

Most people:  "Wow what beautiful weather!"

Adams haters:  "Well, those clouds do look a little gray back there.  Too bad, this could have been a nice day."

I yearn for the days of Calvin Pryor and Marcus Gilchrist.  Good times.

[New York Mick]

43 minutes ago, slats said:

It has everything to do with the value of the safety position, though, and what kind of resources the rest of the league generally invests in it. Teams don't generally draft strong safeties #6 overall, and they don't generally pay them $12M/year. 

I don't even dislike the guy. He is a good player, and I'm happy to have him playing here. Still a bad draft pick, though. Still not a guy I'd be interested in even paying his fifth year option (which, because he's a safety, probably won't be too bad). But I'd be looking to move him between right now and next year's trade deadline if there's anyone out there willing to give the Jets a first rounder for him. Save the five-digit annual contract for a position of greater impact, use the first round pick on a position of greater impact, draft a nice SS somewhere around the fourth round and put him in the starting lineup. And by this time next year, I'll be talking about being willing to take less - if he's still here. 

If Joe Douglas wants to build thru the draft, trading Jamal for capitol ASAP would be a good plan. 

Again his draft spot has absolutely nothing to do with his playing ability and he’ll get market value.