Appreciate Where Darnold Is ...

[Warfish]

3 hours ago, KRL said:

But don't let facts get in the way of your "hot takes" 

No hot takes. And no cherry picking of stats either. Darnold is his whole resume. Not just one game of it, good or bad.

[RutgersJetFan]

46 minutes ago, Bleedin Green said:

Perhaps, but to UC's point, in fairness for a legitimate comparison, you'd have to go through the entire league and eliminate both their very worst and very best games as statistical outliers and then compare to see where everyone falls.  It's entirely possible that one game would have a more significant impact on Darnold's numbers than the overwhelming majority, and that would certainly be interesting to see, but cherry picking for the sake of a particular narrative doesn't mean much on its own.

Does discussion of numbers happen like this anywhere else except when Jets fans need to justify poor aggregate performances of quarterbacks? Like I wonder if historians sit around and say things like: "You know, if you just pretend like Gettysburg never happened, it turns out 1863 wasn't so bad!"

[JoeWillieWhiteShoesHOF]

3 hours ago, nico002 said:

Yes but he made two TD worthy plays to get 1. Kid is carrying this team on his mother fu cking back.

Jets are 5-6 right now with Darnold.

2018 Jets were 5-8 with Darnold.  Darnold handed 2 leads, as late as could be, to Bowles defense to stop Houston and Green Bay final drives, and the D cratered, as usual....Jets could easily have been 7-6 in 2018 with Darnold starting.

So is it wrong to say he is basically a .500 QB RIGHT NOW, playing with the WORST Roster in the NFL in BOTH years?

How does that project if he ever gets NFL players on his OL.  I'm not even talking Pro Bowlers, just NFL players who other teams would also start?  If he ever gets a #1 WR and a running game where you can at least put play-action in your playbook?

[JoeWillieWhiteShoesHOF]

1 hour ago, Jetster said:

This is an interesting point. He threw a perfect pass to a practice squad player who stopped his route. That was a walk in TD throw. But instead, Darnold now has to do it again & he threw the pick. 

Clearly Sam Darnold has to be graded differently then say Mayfield who is throwing to OBJ, Landry & Higgins. Or Watson throwing to Hopkins & Fuller, Dak throwing to Cooper. 

I would also venture to say our Jets most likely have the fewest long runs of any team in the league. It's a bitch trying to get down the field from your own 25 yard line at 3 yards per average run. I mean Mayfield now has Chubb & Hunt in his backfield. 

Though the Oline did better Thursday night there will still way to many times the end was allowed Tobin scream right in on Darnold & flush him out to his right, or the Wesco whiff that led to the fumble. I truly believe there will be a time when Darnold is surrounded by enough talent to make him very dangerous. 

As an earlier post stated and could not have been more on target...Darnold is trying to lead a "Practice Squad", and he is almost at .500 doing it (5-6). tough to compare him to any QB who has NFL players at his disposal.

The NFL player Darnold does have, Bell, a possible future HOFer, is barely getting 3 yards a carry.  What does that tell you about the team surrounded them?

[14 in Green]

3 hours ago, Butterfield said:

He is 27th overall in qb rating.  (Oops, after thursday he is now 33rd) Mediocre at best.  And that is ok.  Better than the jets have had in a long time.

He’s not actually 33rd is he?

That seems crazy. No way Sam is that bad, his numbers have been okay this year when you take everything else here into account.

[14 in Green]

2 hours ago, playtowinthegame said:

Baker Mayfield won on the road at Baltimore.

20/30, 342 yds, 1 TD, INT

https://www.espn.com/nfl/game/_/gameId/401128018

Thanks for mentioning that... ??????

I didn’t want to be the guy who brought it up.

 

[14 in Green]

2 hours ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

Plus Darnold has a crap OL and below average weapons.  That was honestly the most encouraging game I think I've ever seen Darnold play (just due to the quality of opponent plus how bad his supporting cast was).

I feel the same way about Thursday.

Both Gase and Darnold were good.

[HessStation]

Stop comparing him to other players, it’s a false equivalence, the team sucks and nobody knows if he’ll be good or not yet

[thshadow]

2 hours ago, Bleedin Green said:

That INT, for example, was a special level of awful, there's no two ways about that, but we still had to hear why it could be the fault of every other person employed by the Jets not named Darnold.

No INTs are "good", but the (too many) that he's thrown off his back foot, or panicked, or even misread a coverage, those are all a lot worse.  This one, even if you blame him (which I'm fine with), he thought his receiver was going one way and he didn't.  While I'm worried that panicked back-foot ints become a habit, the pick on Thursday night is not something that scares me.  It really hurt, based on the situation - but I don't think it'll be a long-range concern.

 

[The Crusher]

5 hours ago, nico002 said:

I saw Darnold throw 5 TDs Thursday to get 2... Jamison dropped one, Robby Dropped one, Smith Dropped one. 

I see dead people. 

[Butterfield]

1 hour ago, 14 in Green said:

He’s not actually 33rd is he?

That seems crazy. No way Sam is that bad, his numbers have been okay this year when you take everything else here into account.

He is really 33rd.  Looked this morning.  Was 27th before the game.

[Losmeister]

4 hours ago, JiF said:

NE and Jax were clear outliers, the haters will tell you that if you take away the bad you have to also take away the good.  It's impossible for them to separate and call those games outliers even though it's clear as day based on rest of the way he's played this season they were (hasnt thrown more than 1 INT in any other games other than those 2).  He had 7 INT's in 2 games.  Yes, it makes his season look much different.

you dont "take away" ANYTHING. All performances count. So only BAD games are outliers and

his Favre-like 2 300 yd games are not? 

ALL PERFORMANCES MATTER.

QBR of 43.4    

I asked for a middling QBR of 50 vs Balt and it was 48.6.   Not POOR but... overall merely OK.

[Losmeister]

45 minutes ago, thshadow said:

the pick on Thursday night is not something that scares me.  It really hurt, based on the situation

RZ INT w/o being pressured. Did same vs Dallas and it kept them in the game. 

It scares ME.

[Jets723]

3 minutes ago, Losmeister said:

RZ INT w/o being pressured. Did same vs Dallas and it kept them in the game. 

It scares ME.

Those things will be cleaned up.  Just get the kid better protection consistently and we will all be very happy with the results I think 

[Losmeister]

1 hour ago, 14 in Green said:

He’s not actually 33rd is he?

That seems crazy. No way Sam is that bad, his numbers have been okay this year when you take everything else here into account.

No , he's not. 27th.   QBR=43.4   Basically same as last year. (45.9)

For context in todays ESPN atricle re: Tannehill (whose play is much more probably a BLIP than it is an indication he is the next Rich Gannon....  although the POSSIBILITY, tho quite small, still exists.)

"From 2012 to '18, Tannehill recorded a QBR of 49. That ranks 35th of 41 quarterbacks who qualify in that time period. Calling him mediocre prior to this season would probably be a misnomer. There have been occasional flashes, but in aggregate, for a starter, he's been bad"

 

[HawkeyeJet]

2 hours ago, RutgersJetFan said:

Does discussion of numbers happen like this anywhere else except when Jets fans need to justify poor aggregate performances of quarterbacks? Like I wonder if historians sit around and say things like: "You know, if you just pretend like Gettysburg never happened, it turns out 1863 wasn't so bad!"

Only every sports message board under the sun.  I am guessing you knew that.  To think this type of stuff is limited to Jets fans is silly.

[Losmeister]

1 minute ago, Jets723 said:

Those things will be cleaned up.  Just get the kid better protection consistently and we will all be very happy with the results I think 

I hope so. Those were examples where he was WELL PROTECTED.

[Losmeister]

4 hours ago, Sammybighead said:

absurdly lofty expectations.

this only for the chuckleheads saying his floor is Rivers and he is Favre-like.

The rest just want to see improvement out of the bottom 3rd of the league.

[Jets723]

1 minute ago, Losmeister said:

I hope so. Those were examples where he was WELL PROTECTED.

He made a mistake. I’m sure smith screwing up the previous TD pass didn’t help.  But I think we can agree most times he has very little protection.  We got ourselves a QB man we just gotta build around him now

[JustInFudge]

11 minutes ago, Losmeister said:

you dont "take away" ANYTHING. All performances count. So only BAD games are outliers and

his Favre-like 2 300 yd games are not? 

ALL PERFORMANCES MATTER.

QBR of 43.4    

I asked for a middling QBR of 50 vs Balt and it was 48.6.   Not POOR but... overall merely OK.

see; case in point

[Losmeister]

7 minutes ago, JiF said:

see; case in point

I asked for a middling QBR of 50 vs Balt and it was 48.6.   Not POOR but... overall merely OK.

The above sentence was in honor of the thread title which was pointiing out his performance in a single game. He was playing really well for a good portion of the 1st half...

 

[thshadow]

1 hour ago, RutgersJetFan said:

Does discussion of numbers happen like this anywhere else except when Jets fans need to justify poor aggregate performances of quarterbacks? Like I wonder if historians sit around and say things like: "You know, if you just pretend like Gettysburg never happened, it turns out 1863 wasn't so bad!"

We spend (way too much) time trying to analyze the past and predict the future.  It's a fan site after all.  You can certainly do better predicting any QBs future by looking at more than a single number.  The question is what numbers to look at.  Is it reasonable to predict his ceiling / future by looking at a non-trivial set of his best games?  Who knows.

I just know it's a lot more interesting than discussing if Mac was a good GM, or if Tom Shane thinks we should sign Jamal to a lucrative extension.

 

[Losmeister]

33 minutes ago, Jets723 said:

He made a mistake. I’m sure smith screwing up the previous TD pass didn’t help.  But I think we can agree most times he has very little protection.  We got ourselves a QB man we just gotta build around him now

I woulda agreed on "most." We're 20th 57% pass block win rate. Slightly better than expected due to last 6 games. But still, losing roughly 4/10 battles is rough sledding.

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/27584726/nfl-pass-blocking-pass-rushing-rankings-2019-pbwr-prwr-leaderboard#pbwrteam

[Jets723]

3 minutes ago, Losmeister said:

I woulda agreed on "most." We're 20th 57% pass block win rate. Slightly better than expected due to last 6 games. But still, losing roughly 4/10 battles is rough sledding.

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/27584726/nfl-pass-blocking-pass-rushing-rankings-2019-pbwr-prwr-leaderboard#pbwrteam

That’s fair.  Look I don’t think you’re wrong at all about Sam needing to stop those type of interceptions I totally agree and have stated that many times.  However I do think that Smith play right before might have played a role.  Not making an excuse because Sam needs to just toss that out of his mind and focus but I do think there are times that Sam feels he needs to overcompensate and force things since the talent isn’t exactly a strength around him right now.  But yeah it was a bad decision i complete admit that.  The good news is that despite that one throw he played pretty well against arguably the best team in the NFL right now

[CrazyCarl40]

I don’t think Sam Darnold is as good as his fans think as he is or as bad as his detractors say he is. I think he’s about what I’d expect from a 2nd year QB wrapped up in a terrible franchise, surrounded by terrible talent, and coached horribly. I think he’d take a huge step forward if he got good coaching. Not sure we’ll ever find that out though. 

[Losmeister]

3 minutes ago, Jets723 said:

 The good news is that despite that one throw he played pretty well against arguably the best team in the NFL right now

for a while there he was playing VERY well.

   

[HawkeyeJet]

4 minutes ago, CrazyCarl40 said:

I don’t think Sam Darnold is as good as his fans think as he is or as bad as his detractors say he is. I think he’s about what I’d expect from a 2nd year QB wrapped up in a terrible franchise, surrounded by terrible talent, and coached horribly. I think he’d take a huge step forward if he got good coaching. Not sure we’ll ever find that out though. 

This is probably the most reasonable and sensible way I've seen the subject approached.

[Jets723]

6 minutes ago, Losmeister said:

for a while there he was playing VERY well.

   

Yes very true.  It’s a shame our kicker....can’t kick lol.  Realistically the game should have been 21-13 going into halftime.  The interception probably would have happened maybe either.  

[Losmeister]

4 minutes ago, Jets723 said:

Yes very true.  It’s a shame our kicker....can’t kick lol.  Realistically the game should have been 21-13 going into halftime.  The interception probably would have happened maybe either.  

yup. just prior to game i said i had a gut feeling the Jets would hang with them....   

(FG kick was blocked/tipped)

[UntouchableCrew]

2 hours ago, 14 in Green said:

He’s not actually 33rd is he?

That seems crazy. No way Sam is that bad, his numbers have been okay this year when you take everything else here into account.

 

1 hour ago, Butterfield said:

He is really 33rd.  Looked this morning.  Was 27th before the game.

He's 27th after the Ravens game (out of 33 qualifiers.) Baker Mayfied is actually 33rd, so maybe heaping praise on him for beating the Ravens is a little out of context too.

[Jets723]

10 minutes ago, Losmeister said:

yup. just prior to game i said i had a gut feeling the Jets would hang with them....   

(FG kick was blocked/tipped)

To be honest as positive as I am I thought we would get mauled so it was great to see.  Yes you are right the field goal was tipped but Regardless he is pretty bad

[Pac]

7 hours ago, nico002 said:

Yes but he made two TD worthy plays to get 1. Kid is carrying this team on his mother fu cking back.

He carried us on his back to a 20 or loss?  Dude relax hes getting 2 more years minimum to prove it.

[Losmeister]

18 minutes ago, Pac said:

He carried us on his back to a 20 or loss?  Dude relax hes getting 2 more years minimum to prove it.

nico literally referred to Sam as a BABY.

Theres apprently a BABY about to win the MVP. 

[BurnleyJet]

Let’s be honest, if Darnold was drafted by the Ravens I think he’d look amazing. How good would Jackson look playing for Adam Gase’s Jets?

Get him a line, and some weapons on 2020!

[Jets723]

4 minutes ago, BurnleyJet said:

Let’s be honest, if Darnold was drafted by the Ravens I think he’d look amazing. How good would Jackson look playing for Adam Gase’s Jets?

Get him a line, and some weapons on 2020!

True