Darnold..Best in his Class

[JoeWillieWhiteShoesHOF]

42 minutes ago, Villain The Foe said:

The Jets needed to do whatever they needed to do to get Darnold. 

Darnold wasnt my #1 guy, but he was worth the trade, even at his current status as a bottom 5 QB. He's bottom 5 because this team as a whole is bottom 3. 

 

If Mahomes ended up being MVP he would also deserve it. All im saying is that I like guys who defy odds. Very few folks believed in Lamar. Josh Allen and Josh Rosen were both drafted in the top 10. How disrespectful is that? 

It worked out for him though. Sometimes being able to meet your potential is not being drafted by bad teams. 

Could you imagine if Sam Darnold played for a competent franchise? He sure as hell wouldnt be a bottom 5 QB statistically. With that said though, Lamar is ballin' and im rooting for the young man. 

After the Khalil disaster was over and the Jet OL was able to perform just a scintilla better (although still historically terrible), Darnold was able to parlay that very slight uptick in play into being the 10th Rated Passer in the league over the last 8 games, putting up multiple 30+ point games during that stretch.

The sample size is significant enough to believe that at 22 years old, Darnold’s game is trending up.  Also seen in the 7-5 record he posted after having mono on Opening Day.

I wonder how Jackson would have played had he been in Darnold’s shoes.  Not only was Jackson given probably the BEST OL in the NFL.  Baltimore was also able to give him some receivers that often are running free by 5-10 yards (Hollywood Brown and such).  Darnold has never played with a receiver that gets more than 5 centimeters of separation...over his entire first 2 years.

[Villain The Foe]

5 minutes ago, More Cowbell said:

Again, all i was saying is an NFL QB should be able to hit a stationary target. More than twice out of I don't  know, 10 times he threw the ball?

I read what you said. Here it is again. 

14 hours ago, More Cowbell said:

This should have been easy for an NFL QB so stop defending him. Would he done better with JJ Watt chasing him?

He was literally standing there missing targets that were for the most part stationary 

I said that WR's arent stationary and his stationary inaccuracy wasnt a huge problem on his way to lead the league in TD passes, while completing 66% of his passes. 

You dont have to repeat it, I read it,And I disagree.

You call it defending, I say MVP's dont need defending. 

[Sonny Werblin]

19 hours ago, JoeWillieWhiteShoesHOF said:

Garbage time stats.  He was awful for close to 3 quarters. When they needed a play from Jackson he was AWOL.  Even on multiple 4th and 1’s.

This isn’t even worth arguing about.

Wonder what your excuses will be for him next year?  You can use some from the pariah Mayfield’s bag.

Does the fact that they were the best garbage time stats in the history of the NFL count for anything?

[Villain The Foe]

5 minutes ago, JoeWillieWhiteShoesHOF said:

After the Khalil disaster was over and the Jet OL was able to perform just a scintilla better (although still historically terrible), Darnold was able to parlay that very slight uptick in play into being the 10th Rated Passer in the league over the last 8 games, putting up multiple 30+ point games during that stretch.

The sample size is significant enough to believe that at 22 years old, Darnold’s game is trending up.  Also seen in the 7-5 record he posted after having mono on Opening Day.

I wonder how Jackson would have played had he been in Darnold’s shoes.  Not only was Jackson given probably the BEST OL in the NFL.  Baltimore was also able to give him some receivers that often are running free by 5-10 yards (Hollywood Brown and such).  Darnold has never played with a receiver that gets more than 5 centimeters of separation...over his entire first 2 years.

If I got to split seasons up into 8 game intervals, then what that shows is inconsistency. I'd rather take what he's done season by season. 

That sample size is only relevant for folks needing a sample to support their position. I'll give you an example. That same sample size was against the bottom teams of the NFL. Any good team he played he lost to except the Bills in week 17, who sat starters. 

 

Good QB's dont need sample sizes. We're not sitting here talking about the last 8 games of Lamar Jackson or Patrick Mahomes or Deshawn Watson. You can take their ENTIRE CAREER and it'll show that they've been beasting out on the league 

[14 in Green]

2 hours ago, CTM said:

Why does math hate Dam Farnold ?

Math is a troll

[14 in Green]

1 hour ago, New York Mick said:

Obviously, the Ravens didn’t play in the wildcard against the Chargers this year and Flacco was traded to Denver but Jackson  still played in that game and shows a pattern in the playoffs. Being the “best” player in the regular season just to lose as soon as you get to the playoffs is useless. 

Go look up how many "one and done's" Peyton Manning, another "useless" QB had in his career.

Hint. You'll need more then one hand to count them...

[Villain The Foe]

15 minutes ago, Sonny Werblin said:

Does the fact that they were the best garbage time stats in the history of the NFL count for anything?

lol Thank you. 

"Garbage stats" to the point that he did what no other player in the history of the pro game has ever done. 

[JoeWillieWhiteShoesHOF]

13 minutes ago, Sonny Werblin said:

Does the fact that they were the best garbage time stats in the history of the NFL count for anything?

No.

Watch the game again.  EVERY TIME Baltimore needed Jackson to make a play over close to 3 quarters, he failed.  And that included multiple 4th and 1’s.

I’ll never say the guy doesn’t make exciting plays.  But I can foresee him always having problems in the playoffs when going against Top D’s due to accuracy.

[JoeWillieWhiteShoesHOF]

1 minute ago, Villain The Foe said:

lol Thank you. 

"Garbage stats" to the point that he did what no other player in the history of the pro game has ever done. 

Baltimore was DOWN close to 3 TDs near the end of the 3rd Qtr.  AT HOME, playing against a “run first” team.  Up until that point Jackson had failed and failed and then failed some more.  I don’t care if he threw for 1,000 yards in that game, almost all in the 4th Qtr, with the outcome of the game long since decided.

Tennessee proved the kid has a very serious leak in his game.  Namely when forced to stay in the pocket and you know “play QB” he can have some problems that are unrecoverable from.  And now it’s ALL on tape.

[14 in Green]

1 hour ago, Villain The Foe said:

And to think, we didnt even have to trade up to get him! 

We traded away two 2nd round picks for a bottom 5 QB. 

Go figure.  

We could have traded DOWN to get Lamar. Then again, knowing the Jets they'd probably put him at RB. 

 

1 hour ago, New York Mick said:

The Jets shouldn’t of traded away two picks for Darnold in hindsight but at the time it was the smart thing to do. 
If he’s durable enough he’d be a great RB, PR or slot receiver. 

Not to quibble here, but it wasn't two 2nd's.

The Jets traded THREE 2nd round picks AND the 6th pick in the 1st round to move up 3 spots to pick Darnold.

[New York Mick]

28 minutes ago, Villain The Foe said:

Then you're confusing me. Do you want to talk about Lamar or not? 

This "I don’t care what Jackson does unless he’s playing the Jets or a team that will effect the Jets" makes no sense when the Jets arent playing and Lamar and the Ravens are no longer in the playoffs, yet you're in the thread. 

Yes this is a Jets board, and you have the right to participate in any thread you want, but what you said contradicts what you're doing. 

Participate in the thread or dont. 

I said I don’t care if he does good or bad unless it effects the Jets, you seem to be his biggest fan and want him in the HOF. 
Judging his style of play, abilities and longevity is the part of the discussion Im involved in. Cheering for him to be great isn’t. That’s yours. 

[Patriot Killa]

7 minutes ago, 14 in Green said:

 

Not to quibble here, but it wasn't two 2nd's.

The Jets traded THREE 2nd round picks AND the 6th pick in the 1st round to move up 3 spots to pick Darnold.

And to this day I see nothing wrong with that.i will never regret that trade and jumping the Bills and others to eventually draft Sam Darnold. The one ballsy thing Maccagnan ever did and I’m appreciative of the move despite the Lamar/Ravens success.

[NYJ1]

47 minutes ago, Villain The Foe said:

Warfish post didnt come across like that to me. He made a statement that was accurate. It's indeed debatable. 
 

However, I see what the problem is. Warfish came from a position him being the 2nd worst, and you took offense. 

How do I know? Because in your response you put in all caps 2nd "BEST". 

 

It wasnt how Warfish said it, it's the fact that he didnt jump on Sam's d__k that rubbed you the wrong way. 

 

lol. Leave Warfish alone. 

Are you his new sponsor? Warfish is a grown man. He can defend himself. Butt out. And you know nothing. His post is as accurate or inaccurate as mine. Point being his posting style sometimes gives a rather condescending tone. That's what I was discussing with him - not you.

[NYJ1]

44 minutes ago, Patriot Killa said:

there’s nothing wrong with that.

Never said there was. And once again can you HIM answer this on his own. All due respect, I don't think he needs your protection.

[More Cowbell]

37 minutes ago, Villain The Foe said:

I read what you said. Here it is again. 

I said that WR's arent stationary and his stationary inaccuracy wasnt a huge problem on his way to lead the league in TD passes, while completing 66% of his passes. 

You dont have to repeat it, I read it,And I disagree.

You call it defending, I say MVP's dont need defending. 

Apparently  you and I are talking about to different things. I'm talking about how he performed in a skills competition,  you are talking about how he performed  as a QB in a game. They are two different things. 

[hamat711]

When you compare Darnold to Baker, Allen and Lamar.....................

Darnold has the least amount of TDs per game.

Darnold has the 2nd most turnovers per game trailing only Baker. This problem goes back to College which many on this board like to ignore when projecting his future.

Darnold has the 2nd worst completion % only ahead of Allen.

Darnold only has more yards per game than Josh Allen because Allen didn't finish playing week 17.

Darnold's best game is still not as good as Bakers, Allen's or Lamar's best game. (All of them have 4+ TD games without turnovers besides Darnold)

Darnold's worst game is easily the worst of the bunch. 0 TDs and 5 turnovers vs NE this year and 0 TDs and 4 turnovers vs Miami last year. 

Darnold's best season is still the worst compared to Baker's, Allen's and Lamar's best. 

Darnod is the least mobile

Darnold has played in the fewest amount of games in the class despite being the only day 1 starter.

Darnold has always been 3rd or 4th in nearly everything.

Darnold is not the best at anything in his class either.

Now I have no problem with people thinking he "will be the best" since he arguably had a better year than Baker this year and Allen and Lamar have longevity issues or problems relying on their legs. The problem I have is with people acting like he is the best now when Lamar just had a MVP season. It's stupid to make fun of Allen and Lamar losing playoff games when Darnold struggled vs the Bill's backups week 17. The Bills were playing a WR at DB and the Jets could only muster 13 point by throwing 5.5 yards per attempt for 198 yards, 1 TD and 1 Int.

[14 in Green]

15 minutes ago, hamat711 said:

When you compare Darnold to Baker, Allen and Lamar.....................

Darnold has the least amount of TDs per game.

Darnold has the 2nd most turnovers per game trailing only Baker. This problem goes back to College which many on this board like to ignore when projecting his future.

Darnold has the 2nd worst completion % only ahead of Allen.

Darnold only has more yards per game than Josh Allen because Allen didn't finish playing week 17.

Darnold's best game is still not as good as Bakers, Allen's or Lamar's best game. (All of them have 4+ TD games without turnovers besides Darnold)

Darnold's worst game is easily the worst of the bunch. 0 TDs and 5 turnovers vs NE this year and 0 TDs and 4 turnovers vs Miami last year. 

Darnold's best season is still the worst compared to Baker's, Allen's and Lamar's best. 

Darnod is the least mobile

Darnold has played in the fewest amount of games in the class despite being the only day 1 starter.

Darnold has always been 3rd or 4th in nearly everything.

Darnold is not the best at anything in his class either.

Now I have no problem with people thinking he "will be the best" since he arguably had a better year than Baker this year and Allen and Lamar have longevity issues or problems relying on their legs. The problem I have is with people acting like he is the best now when Lamar just had a MVP season. It's stupid to make fun of Allen and Lamar losing playoff games when Darnold struggled vs the Bill's backups week 17. The Bills were playing a WR at DB and the Jets could only muster 13 point by throwing 5.5 yards per attempt for 198 yards, 1 TD and 1 Int.

Where have you been, and why couldn't you have posted this in like, maybe about 50 different threads?

[CTM]

20 minutes ago, hamat711 said:

When you compare Darnold to Baker, Allen and Lamar.....................

Darnold has the least amount of TDs per game.

Darnold has the 2nd most turnovers per game trailing only Baker. This problem goes back to College which many on this board like to ignore when projecting his future.

Darnold has the 2nd worst completion % only ahead of Allen.

Darnold only has more yards per game than Josh Allen because Allen didn't finish playing week 17.

Darnold's best game is still not as good as Bakers, Allen's or Lamar's best game. (All of them have 4+ TD games without turnovers besides Darnold)

Darnold's worst game is easily the worst of the bunch. 0 TDs and 5 turnovers vs NE this year and 0 TDs and 4 turnovers vs Miami last year. 

Darnold's best season is still the worst compared to Baker's, Allen's and Lamar's best. 

Darnod is the least mobile

Darnold has played in the fewest amount of games in the class despite being the only day 1 starter.

Darnold has always been 3rd or 4th in nearly everything.

Darnold is not the best at anything in his class either.

Now I have no problem with people thinking he "will be the best" since he arguably had a better year than Baker this year and Allen and Lamar have longevity issues or problems relying on their legs. The problem I have is with people acting like he is the best now when Lamar just had a MVP season. It's stupid to make fun of Allen and Lamar losing playoff games when Darnold struggled vs the Bill's backups week 17. The Bills were playing a WR at DB and the Jets could only muster 13 point by throwing 5.5 yards per attempt for 198 yards, 1 TD and 1 Int.

Yeah but Gase and historically bad oline that I cant substantiate and other stuff 

[hamat711]

11 minutes ago, CTM said:

Yeah but Gase and historically bad oline that I cant substantiate and other stuff 

Yea but Gase will be back next year and the O-line likely will still be bottom 5 by next year.

 

[JoeWillieWhiteShoesHOF]

1 hour ago, Villain The Foe said:

If I got to split seasons up into 8 game intervals, then what that shows is inconsistency. I'd rather take what he's done season by season. 

That sample size is only relevant for folks needing a sample to support their position. I'll give you an example. That same sample size was against the bottom teams of the NFL. Any good team he played he lost to except the Bills in week 17, who sat starters. 

 

Good QB's dont need sample sizes. We're not sitting here talking about the last 8 games of Lamar Jackson or Patrick Mahomes or Deshawn Watson. You can take their ENTIRE CAREER and it'll show that they've been beasting out on the league 

You’re right.

The only point I’m trying to make is that the trajectory in Darnold’s play MIGHT be trending up.  Which would be a good thing.

[Villain The Foe]

1 hour ago, JoeWillieWhiteShoesHOF said:

Baltimore was DOWN close to 3 TDs near the end of the 3rd Qtr.  AT HOME, playing against a “run first” team.  Up until that point Jackson had failed and failed and then failed some more.  I don’t care if he threw for 1,000 yards in that game, almost all in the 4th Qtr, with the outcome of the game long since decided.

Tennessee proved the kid has a very serious leak in his game.  Namely when forced to stay in the pocket and you know “play QB” he can have some problems that are unrecoverable from.  And now it’s ALL on tape.

No one is arguing that the Ravens lost and lost thoroughly. They did. 

I dont care if he was down close to 3 TD's, it's a PLAYOFF GAME. The Chiefs was down 3TD's and a Field goal against the Texans and they recovered within 10 minutes. Do you call that performance "garbage time"? No. 

What im arguing is the ridiculous title of this thread along with the initial post that accompanied it. You said "Force him" to play QB by keeping him in the pocket. Folks said the same thing after his rookie season when the Chargers put 25 safeties on the field. 

If it was that easy, folks would have done it already. That's not a hole in his game, that's proving that anyone can win on Sunday. If the NFL playoffs was a "Best of" series, I doubt Tennesse would have survived. They did what was needed to be done to win the game that day. 

 

23 hours ago, JoeWillieWhiteShoesHOF said:

I don’t see many deep playoff runs from this guy.

Force him to play QB by keeping him in the pocket.  Just like Tennessee did.
 

 

 

[Villain The Foe]

1 hour ago, New York Mick said:

I said I don’t care if he does good or bad unless it effects the Jets, you seem to be his biggest fan and want him in the HOF. 

That's not what you said. This is what you said. 

2 hours ago, New York Mick said:

I don’t care what Jackson does unless he’s playing the Jets or a team that will effect the Jets. 

That's not the same... 

Quote

Judging his style of play, abilities and longevity is the part of the discussion Im involved in. Cheering for him to be great isn’t. That’s yours. 

you're just mad that you have nothing to cheer about. 

[GREENBEAN]

Pleased to announce that the Baker Mayfield Anxiety Forum is now the Lamar Jackson Anxiety Forum

I think a better name would be the 2018 QB class anxiety forum. No?

Just wait till Rosen gets it going. You just wait.


Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

[Villain The Foe]

1 hour ago, NYJ1 said:

Are you his new sponsor? Warfish is a grown man. He can defend himself. Butt out. And you know nothing. His post is as accurate or inaccurate as mine. Point being his posting style sometimes gives a rather condescending tone. That's what I was discussing with him - not you.

You mentioned more than just yourself. 

2 hours ago, NYJ1 said:

As of today, Darnold is debatably the 2nd BEST in his class.

ONLY LJ is a clear-cut "better" so far.

You see this is what I'm talking about. You always make these posts where you must think you're somehow EDUCATING us? Or at least that's how it comes across. It's rather arrogant of you. You are not any smarter than the rest of us. Probably smarter than many, but certainly not as others that post on this board and may I suggest not as smart as you think?

That's more than you, but the board. Since I was part of "us" I figured that I'd show that maybe you should speak for specific people and not such a broad "us" since not all of us feel that way. 

The only condescending tone was yours, thinking that you can speak on behalf of everyone else, then telling those people you're speaking on behalf to butt out...knowing darn well that if I agreed with you then you wouldnt be saying that. 

 

Warfish statement was accurate, and you were salty about it. 

[Villain The Foe]

1 hour ago, More Cowbell said:

Apparently  you and I are talking about to different things. I'm talking about how he performed in a skills competition,  you are talking about how he performed  as a QB in a game. They are two different things. 

No we're not. You're trying to take his pathetic performance in a probowl contest and associate that with his ability as a QB. 

Im telling you that doing so is ridiculous when the man has experience in actual football games. 

 

Im going to move on from this. 

[Villain The Foe]

23 minutes ago, JoeWillieWhiteShoesHOF said:

You’re right.

The only point I’m trying to make is that the trajectory in Darnold’s play MIGHT be trending up.  Which would be a good thing.

Facts. 

[New York Mick]

5 minutes ago, Villain The Foe said:

That's not what you said. This is what you said. 

That's not the same... 

you're just mad that you have nothing to cheer about. 

That’s exactly what I said. I don’t care about Jackson unless it effects the Jets so I’m talking about a player’s ability that the Jets might face in the future. 

I don’t cheer for players, I cheer for teams. 

[Villain The Foe]

1 minute ago, New York Mick said:

That’s exactly what I said. I don’t care about Jackson unless it effects the Jets so I’m talking about a player’s ability that the Jets might face in the future. 

I don’t cheer for players, I cheer for teams. 

Mick. Put on your glasses, then come back. Then look at what you said, exactly. 

 

Or, you're damage controlling. One of the two. Either way. Lamar is still the MVP. <<<<You may not want your glasses now that I wrote that.  

[Skeet Ulrich]

I knew this thread was coming. I wouldn't really make too much out of that silly drill in the Pro Bowl. If you watch the games he clearly puts the ball in positions where WRs can make plays on it.

Can Darnold:

- stay healthy a full season

- actually have a good season

before comparing him favorably to MVPs? Thanks in advance.

 

 

[New York Mick]

36 minutes ago, Villain The Foe said:

Mick. Put on your glasses, then come back. Then look at what you said, exactly. 

 

Or, you're damage controlling. One of the two. Either way. Lamar is still the MVP. <<<<You may not want your glasses now that I wrote that.  

1. I don’t think Jackson is the MVP, Mahomes is. 
2. I don’t care if Jackson is good or not unless it effects the Jets. This doesn’t mean I can’t have an opinion about how he plays or if he’s the MVP. 
3. I think Jackson was the best QB from his draft this year but wont be when it’s all said and done. 
4. You’re his best cheerleader. 

[Villain The Foe]

28 minutes ago, New York Mick said:

1. I don’t think Jackson is the MVP, Mahomes is. 

Quote

2. I don’t care if Jackson is good or not unless it effects the Jets. This doesn’t mean I can’t have an opinion about how he plays or if he’s the MVP. 

Of course you can have an opinion. 

Quote

3. I think Jackson was the best QB from his draft this year but wont be when it’s all said and done. 

He wont when it's all said and done. You see my avatar. lol. 

Quote

4. You’re his best cheerleader. 

Oh, I smell the disdain in the air. 

 

Quote

 

 

[Dcat]

Right now Jackson is the clear leader in the class.  Mayfield, Allen and Darnold are well behind Jackson, with Rosen out of the contest for the time being.  Because of the missed time and practice, I'd put Darnold behind Allen and Mayfield for the moment.  But that doesn't imply that this won't change.   I'd imagine each QB develops at a diff't pace and each will have his own setbacks along the way.  But right now Jackson has come flying out of the gate and is the leader after his sophomore year.   When we look at this in 10 years, I doubt it's Jackson on top.  

[Villain The Foe]

3 hours ago, hamat711 said:

When you compare Darnold to Baker, Allen and Lamar.....................

Darnold has the least amount of TDs per game.

Darnold has the 2nd most turnovers per game trailing only Baker. This problem goes back to College which many on this board like to ignore when projecting his future.

Darnold has the 2nd worst completion % only ahead of Allen.

Darnold only has more yards per game than Josh Allen because Allen didn't finish playing week 17.

Darnold's best game is still not as good as Bakers, Allen's or Lamar's best game. (All of them have 4+ TD games without turnovers besides Darnold)

Darnold's worst game is easily the worst of the bunch. 0 TDs and 5 turnovers vs NE this year and 0 TDs and 4 turnovers vs Miami last year. 

Darnold's best season is still the worst compared to Baker's, Allen's and Lamar's best. 

Darnod is the least mobile

Darnold has played in the fewest amount of games in the class despite being the only day 1 starter.

Darnold has always been 3rd or 4th in nearly everything.

Darnold is not the best at anything in his class either.

Now I have no problem with people thinking he "will be the best" since he arguably had a better year than Baker this year and Allen and Lamar have longevity issues or problems relying on their legs. The problem I have is with people acting like he is the best now when Lamar just had a MVP season. It's stupid to make fun of Allen and Lamar losing playoff games when Darnold struggled vs the Bill's backups week 17. The Bills were playing a WR at DB and the Jets could only muster 13 point by throwing 5.5 yards per attempt for 198 yards, 1 TD and 1 Int.

Folks wont like this. But the facts are the facts. 

[Losmeister]

22 minutes ago, Villain The Foe said:

Folks wont like this. But the facts are the facts. 

SamPanties a twistin....

Emergency Wonder Bread being eaten....

[Losmeister]

4 hours ago, 14 in Green said:

Not to quibble here, but it wasn't two 2nd's.

The Jets traded THREE 2nd round picks AND the 6th pick in the 1st round to move up 3 spots to pick Darnold.

The retrun on onvestment has been...    well, we're in the red...    quite a bit