OT: I just tested positive with COVID

[CTM]

55 minutes ago, More Cowbell said:

What we know is data on confirmed cases. We don't  know how many people actually have this and China said they expect an uptick from a second wave so nobody but right wing conspiracy  theorists are actually saying what you are. 

All I'm saying is wait and see and react to what is actually happenning. That is not a conspiracy. I responded to you saying we needed to be sending 2 months of money out to citizens now. I think that is an overreaction and they can always do more as the situation develops.

to be clear: I fully support the current distancing measures and am not encouraging anyone to ignore this. In fact, I am shocked how many are letting de Blasio and Cuomo off the hook for being so slow to react. 3/12 they were refusing to shut down Broadway and subways were packed at rush hour on 3/11 as a good friend was on it much to my chagrin.

I think there is a ton of ground between this is a non issue and OMG shut everything down for 6 months now and start printing fake money. imho based on current available data and studies, it's very likely that by mid / late april this is somewhat manageable and we will be feverishly preparing for a second wave next fall with some herd immunity, a better informed public, some therapies available and most importantly a much more prepared healthcare system.  I *hope* I'm right, while fully understanding I can be very wrong. I see nothing wrong with trying to maintain a bit of optimism here while also being vigilant / cautious.  Not sure why that is a controversial opinion but I expect anxiety is the root which is understandable.

And agree about cases/testing, which is why I included mortality.

 

 

 

[Biggs]

15 minutes ago, BornJetsFan1983 said:

It does make it tough co soldering you can't rely  on what China says and all the narrative stuff in media

There is alot of evidence  saying we on on the road to cure but time will tell.

There was a lot of evidence that the breakthrough decade in chemo therapy in the 1980's would cure GI and Breast cancer.  

[Rangers9]

1 hour ago, Biggs said:

There was a lot of evidence that the breakthrough decade in chemo therapy in the 1980's would cure GI and Breast cancer.  

All previous discoveries on chemo drugs etc were proven over a period of time and real scientific method. That's all that Fauci is saying. It's great if Trump gives the public hope. But not false hope. Say we're doing experimentation for treatments and trying to fast track them. Don't repeat unfactual statements from Fox News which has been pushing this all week. 

[Biggs]

9 minutes ago, jmat321 said:

2 physicians I know personally are both on opposite ends of the spectrum on this.  It does sound to me that there is some level of disagreement.  Scary time.  I’m not in total agreement with what was done initially and what’s being done now, but nothing to do than just try to stay healthy.  

My internist, Witch doctor and Chiropractor aren't on the same page either.  I'm baffled about what to do. 

[Skeptable]

5 minutes ago, Rangers9 said:

All previous discoveries on chemo drugs etc were proven over a period of time and real scientific method. That's all that Fauci is saying. It's great if Trump gives the public hope. But not false hope. Say we're doing experimentation for treatments and trying to fast track them. Don't repeat unfactual statements from Fox News which has been pushing this all week. 

Fast track is still 14-16 months away... Or else there is a possibility of the cutter incident involving polio vaccine and cutter laboratories in the 50s. Hopefully nobody is that dumb again

[jmat321]

4 minutes ago, Biggs said:

My internist, Witch doctor and Chiropractor aren't on the same page either.  I'm baffled about what to do. 

Joking aside both are MDs and friends, one with a local hospital, the other a more prestigious speciality hospital.  One thinks the world is ending, the other feels it is overblown.  

[Skeptable]

54 minutes ago, BornJetsFan1983 said:

Your statement speaks for it self, naive,  hysterical and the ending was perfect, you have to be a doctor because they will agree with you right? Even tho plenty agree with me.

Look your a perfect example of why the coverage of this is so outrageous,  you have no facts just all feeling based in bad info. Convinced people are dieting on the street. No worries mate. At the end of this when it's all past and the sun knocks this thing dead, you can sit back and remember you were wrong

Also... Talking to people that actually deal with the problem make more sense then asking a local construction worker how infectious a disease is or how fast it is spreading and why it's a danger to the Healthcare system at the moment... But keep talking to your local knowitalls and maybe they know more then doctors and nurses but me personally... If it's a health question I am going to stick to asking Healthcare personnel. If it's a math question I will ask a mathematician 

[Biggs]

5 minutes ago, Rangers9 said:

All previous discoveries on chemo drugs etc were proven over a period of time and real scientific method. That's all that Fauci is saying. It's great if Trump gives the public hope. But not false hope. Say we're doing experimentation for treatments and trying to fast track them. Don't repeat unfactual statements from Fox News which has been pushing this all week. 

My point was a lot of promise and they mostly extended life by about 6 months depending on actual discovery of the disease before new discoveries mostly petered out.  Promise in therapies can be measured in decades or years rarely in months.  Until you have one that works, is effective and they have a clue how to dose it, it's probably not a good idea to give people false hope.  The best thing we can do is social distance to reduce the wave.  The worst thing we can do is promote some future cure to keep people from taking this seriously.  

The reality is if our medical responders are sick and the system is overwhelmed if you get into an accident and need surgery you will die.  It won't be statistically a Covid-19 death but you're still dead.  There are a lot of people with real health issues who need care who will be impacted by Covid-19 who will be an uncounted statistic of it.  

[Scott Dierking]

12 minutes ago, Rangers9 said:

All previous discoveries on chemo drugs etc were proven over a period of time and real scientific method. That's all that Fauci is saying. It's great if Trump gives the public hope. But not false hope. Say we're doing experimentation for treatments and trying to fast track them. Don't repeat unfactual statements from Fox News which has been pushing this all week. 

History is littered with accidental discoveries to cures of major diseases.

I for one am glad that NY has been give a go ahead to test chloroquine in compassion cases.

If it in someway can help alleviate symptoms and shorten the amount of sick time, it can serve as a clinical study in real time.

[Rangers9]

1 hour ago, Scott Dierking said:

History is littered with accidental discoveries to cures of major diseases.

I for one am glad that NY has been give a go ahead to test chloroquine in compassion cases.

If it in someway can help alleviate symptoms and shorten the amount of sick time, it can serve as a clinical study in real time.

No. What they're asking for are trials and scientific research. If it works ok (I hope it does) but only after it goes through real science not Fox News science. 

[32EBoozer]

@Maxman I think this thread has served its purpose and can be moved to OT board. I hope and pray the OP gets better soon, but insults starting to fly

[Scott Dierking]

3 minutes ago, Rangers9 said:

No. What they're asking for are trials and scientific research. If it works ok (I hope it does) but only after it goes through real science not Fox News science. 

 

[BornJetsFan1983]

12 minutes ago, Skeptable said:

Also... Talking to people that actually deal with the problem make more sense then asking a local construction worker how infectious a disease is or how fast it is spreading and why it's a danger to the Healthcare system at the moment... But keep talking to your local knowitalls and maybe they know more then doctors and nurses but me personally... If it's a health question I am going to stick to asking Healthcare personnel. If it's a math question I will ask a mathematician 

Yeah but you dont clearly. You refuse to look at anything at disagrees with you. And dismiss as um how you out it, a Construction workers view? Is that supposed  to be a slight? I'm not sure really, but in any case you should really look into talking gtk actual doctors verse whatever you are doing now. 

[Rangers9]

1 hour ago, Skeptable said:

Fast track is still 14-16 months away... Or else there is a possibility of the cutter incident involving polio vaccine and cutter laboratories in the 50s. Hopefully nobody is that dumb again

Based on what I've read the vaccine will take 14-16 but these viral infection treatments like the cloroquine cocktail these guys are talking about would be much shorter. As of now there is no proof it would work or even be safe. What I don't like is Trump jumping all over it with no scientific knowledge or proof and contradicting his experts. He claims he knows everything about anything. If you buy this you're crazy. "Only I can do it." Come on lets not be that stupid. 

[Scott Dierking]

3 minutes ago, Rangers9 said:

Based on what I've read the vaccine will take 14-16 but these viral infection treatments like the cloroquine cocktail these guys are talking about would be much shorter. As of now there is no proof it would work or even be safe. What I don't like is Trump jumping all over it with no scientific knowledge or proof and contradicting his experts. He claims he knows everything about anything. If you buy this you're crazy. 

As I told you, and you disagreed, NY is trying it. Let's all pray it works to some level.

[More Cowbell]

36 minutes ago, CTM said:

All I'm saying is wait and see and react to what is actually happenning. That is not a conspiracy. I responded to you saying we needed to be sending 2 months of money out to citizens now. I think that is an overreaction and they can always do more as the situation develops.

to be clear: I fully support the current distancing measures and am not encouraging anyone to ignore this. In fact, I am shocked how many are letting de Blasio and Cuomo off the hook for being so slow to react. 3/12 they were refusing to shut down Broadway and subways were packed at rush hour on 3/11 as a good friend was on it much to my chagrin.

I think there is a ton of ground between this is a non issue and OMG shut everything down for 6 months now and start printing fake money. imho based on current available data and studies, it's very likely that by mid / late april this is somewhat manageable and we will be feverishly preparing for a second wave next fall with some herd immunity, a better informed public, some therapies available and most importantly a much more prepared healthcare system.  I *hope* I'm right, while fully understanding I can be very wrong. I see nothing wrong with trying to maintain a bit of optimism here while also being vigilant / cautious.  Not sure why that is a controversial opinion but I expect anxiety is the root which is understandable.

And agree about cases/testing, which is why I included mortality.

 

 

 

What I was saying in reference to the month or two of funds is this $1000 give or take is not going to seriously help anyone

 Sure it is better than nothing and I am sure there are people in the mid west and south  that this will have a bigger impact on but i don't  think anyone in the tristate area this would do more for than allowijg them to pay for sone groceries, a phone bill, and electricity for a month. . It's  not going to have much of an impact except for politicians  who will piint this out and say, I fought who ever to get you that money. 

[BornJetsFan1983]

46 minutes ago, Biggs said:

Good article.  Right in the middle of it is this gem.

• Dr. Anthony Fauci, head of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases said Friday that the drug’s promise was “anecdotal,” adding, “It was not done in a controlled clinical trial. So you really can’t make any definitive statement about it.”

Yeah that's why I presented the fact that people are trying because of positive results so far, meaning they are now trying it out to see if it will work. I swear it's tough to keep up with all your comments, they either misquote me or try to demean me, all for bringing up the obvious. I hope next week you all that take time to disagree with also admit your error when there isn't the mass deaths and cure is used everywhere. 

I mean look at this comment. Completely obtuse to who he is quoting both in the article and also my comments. No context. So the doc says it's not proven and I say it's not proven  but professions all over are trying it out to see if it will work? Gee, that sounds just like what I said.

But hes not exclusive, many poster kind of have their own idea in their head and dismiss anything disagreeing with them. It's sad. The fact are the facts. 

Can't wait till next week 

[Rangers9]

1 hour ago, Scott Dierking said:

As I told you, and you disagreed, NY is trying it. Let's all pray it works to some level.

He said they were doing trials. That's not trying it. If it passes the trials and works and is safe we're all very happy. 

[CTM]

9 minutes ago, Scott Dierking said:

 

Smart decision. I'm pretty confident that with the collective brain power of basically all of qualified humanity we will tackle this far more quickly than anyone realizes. But we will see.

Lets hope it works!!

[Skeptable]

8 minutes ago, BornJetsFan1983 said:

Yeah but you dont clearly. You refuse to look at anything at disagrees with you. And dismiss as um how you out it, a Construction workers view? Is that supposed  to be a slight? I'm not sure really, but in any case you should really look into talking gtk actual doctors verse whatever you are doing now. 

I have 4 doctors in my family and 2 nurses and they all say the same thing... But you belive who you want... 

[CTM]

3 minutes ago, More Cowbell said:

What I was saying in reference to the month or two of funds is this $1000 give or take is not going to seriously help anyone

Ok, but why can't they do something now, and do something again in 2 weeks should the situation not improve?

[Scott Dierking]

5 minutes ago, Rangers9 said:

He said they were doing trials. That's not trying it. If it passes the trials and works and is safe we're all very happy. 

They will be doing trials on patients, is that not the case? Patients with Corona, correct?

As Cuomo said in the video, why else would they need to "talk with the families"?

maybe I am understanding it wrong, but they seem to be testing on patients.

[BornJetsFan1983]

54 minutes ago, cant wait said:

Do NOT take Chloroquine if you are feeling sick. First of all there’s no scientific proof it’s effective against SARS-CoV-2 and most of all it can be highly toxic and cause serious and fatal overdose at less than 2x the standard dosage (under 2000 mg)

This is ridiculous. First off no one would prescribe an overdose. That's like saying  omg dont drink 20 bottle of vodka at once. There is no scientific evidence that that amount would get you a really good buzz. It would kill you.

1 you didn't read or try to read anything about the chloroquine  cure people are looking at. 

2 you hope no one else will and can just dismiss it because you know panic, death, etc.

3 all evidence shows this is potentially  very high potential to lead to a fix for the carona virus. Not accepting it because you want to be right about a virus is silly. Let the facts and adults handle  and and maybe sit back for awhile 

[BornJetsFan1983]

4 minutes ago, Skeptable said:

I have 4 doctors in my family and 2 nurses and they all say the same thing... But you belive who you want... 

Dentists dont count. Any doctor that doesn't  consider science  relevant doesn't  seems like a very good doctor.  

I mean how do you want me to respond to that? That they are ignorant?

[BornJetsFan1983]

28 minutes ago, Biggs said:

My point was a lot of promise and they mostly extended life by about 6 months depending on actual discovery of the disease before new discoveries mostly petered out.  Promise in therapies can be measured in decades or years rarely in months.  Until you have one that works, is effective and they have a clue how to dose it, it's probably not a good idea to give people false hope.  The best thing we can do is social distance to reduce the wave.  The worst thing we can do is promote some future cure to keep people from taking this seriously.  

The reality is if our medical responders are sick and the system is overwhelmed if you get into an accident and need surgery you will die.  It won't be statistically a Covid-19 death but you're still dead.  There are a lot of people with real health issues who need care who will be impacted by Covid-19 who will be an uncounted statistic of it.  

Or maybe just take good news,  and realize that it's not as bad as everyone makes it out to be. 

I'm with 100 percent on the doctors and places being overwhelmed,  that's why all the panic makes things worse. Pretty basic

[Rangers9]

1 hour ago, Scott Dierking said:

They will be doing trials on patients, is that not the case? Patients with Corona, correct?

As Cuomo said in the video, why else would they need to "talk with the families"?

maybe I am understanding it wrong, but the seem to be testing on patients.

I don't know the medical breakdown on this. They are experimenting with corona patients on the vaccine already. But it takes time to complete this maybe less because the choloroquine has been approved for other treatments. There is a protocol and a lot of science involved before it's rolled out to the general patient population which is growing. I saw Laura Ingraham talk about it a few times last week on Fox News. She said something like she used it when she went to Africa to help prevent malaria. That's no reason to tell millions of people that it might work. She has no scientific background or proof and imo she's irresponsible. And then there's a conspiracy theory on areas of Africa not getting too many cases and the reason is people regularly using this drug (for malaria). The key reason is not many tests in some areas of Africa they don't know how many people have the virus. 

[Skeptable]

6 minutes ago, BornJetsFan1983 said:

Dentists dont count. Any doctor that doesn't  consider science  relevant doesn't  seems like a very good doctor.  

I mean how do you want me to respond to that? That they are ignorant?

My aunt is former surgeon General of Nevada... Eat rocks... Your stupidity knows no bounds 

[Scott Dierking]

12 minutes ago, Rangers9 said:

He said they were doing trials. That's not trying it. If it passes the trials and works and is safe we're all very happy. 

https://www.msn.com/en-za/news/other/new-york-begins-testing-chloroquine-on-coronavirus-patients/ar-BB11wfe3

New York with the highest confirmed cases of coronavirus in the United States, said it would conduct trials immediately using hydroxychloroquine, a malaria drug combined with the antibiotic Zithromax.

The malaria drug has showed promise in a French study in treating COVID-19, which is caused by the coronavirus. It was also effective in China in treating the disease.

“There is a theory the drug treatment could be helpful,” Governor Andrew Cuomo told reporters Saturday during a news conference reported by VOA.

He said there were people in serious condition and that the state’s health officials were comfortable trying the treatment on those patients. The U.S. Food and Drug Administration was sending New York 10,000 doses of the two drugs.

“As soon as we get those doses, we will work with hospitals, doctors and families on using those drugs and seeing where we get,” Cuomo said.

[Scott Dierking]

4 minutes ago, Rangers9 said:

I don't know the medical breakdown on this. They are experimenting with corona patients on the vaccine already. But it takes time to complete this maybe less because the choloroquine has been approved for other treatments. There is a protocol and a lot of science involved before it's rolled out to the general patient population which is growing. I saw Laura Ingraham talk about it a few times last week on Fox News. She said something like she used it when she went to Africa to help prevent malaria. That's no reason to tell millions of people that it might work. She has no scientific background or proof and imo she's irresponsible. And then there's a conspiracy theory on areas of Africa not getting too many cases and the reason is people regularly using this drug. The key reason is not many tests in some areas of Africa they don't know how many people have the virus. 

Well, in NY they are starting to use it on Tuesday. Call them "trials" if you like, but this is a live clinical study, as I stated earlier. 

Let's hope it is a breakthrough.

[Rangers9]

1 hour ago, Scott Dierking said:

Well, in NY they are starting to use it on Tuesday. Call them "trials" if you like, but this can be a live clinical study, as I stated earlier. 

Let's hope it is a breakthrough.

I'm not calling them trials Cuomo did. It means they are gathering scientific data and using the scientific method.  If it works and it's approved they will use it. They are also experimenting with other drugs to treat this virus not just cholorquine. Scott what is your motive for being so optimistic about this drug. Why believe it if something unproven even Fauci a scientist says unproven. Is it because you want to prove that Trump is right. If so that's not a good reason because he's not right. He's guessing and creating a distraction. 

[sirlancemehlot]

2 hours ago, CTM said:

We qualify as essential, we spent he past 2 weeks making sure the entire back office could work from home and have allowed them to even though not required. And yeah, we will probably keep them there beyond restrictions lifted as there is only small productivity benefits to in office. But the mandate is until further notice not 2 months. Nobody knows when that will be as ideally they will watch the transmission data and decide.

If you look at other countries this thing flattens fairly quickly post restrictions. +Areas in warmer climates aren't seeing the same out break rates as cooler climates. Italy, on a 3 day moving average was growing about 26% daily on 3/9 which is when restrictions went in place. The data today shows a 10% increase and an average 13% increase (3 day moving average.) That is a massive difference that hopefully (and likely) continues to fall over the next week. At Italy's current count a 26% daily increase is like 1.3M total infected in 2 weeks, at 13% daily increase that is 300k infected in 2 weeks. 

What happens when restrictions ease with a more informed public and warmer weather is what remains to be seen and what nobody knows for sure. Several studies and global data suggests a significant decrease based on temp/humidity alone. 

What did I point out that wasn't factual?

All you numbers are nonsense.  Not trying to be rude, the numbers exist certainly, but they aren't representative of anything.  West Virginia had zero cases recently.  Awesome.  Except it wasn't true.  west Virginia just hadn't tested a single soul until recently.  Suddenly their numbers spike.  Cuomo did an end-around and decided to test statewide with fewer restrictions than the federal mandate.  With lots of new testing the number of cases exploded making it appear as if NY was the epicenter of the virus.  But the numbers lie.  The increases and flattening curves you discuss are also simply numbers unsupported by actual trend, because in order for there to be a scientific evaluation, you must have equal values to all but a single variable for which you are trying to test.  This data is based on counting.  Simple counting.  Not real trends, not likelihood of one outcome or another, just flat numbers.  When South Korea was rolling out 10,000 tests per day, and the US was testing fewer than 70 people per week in early march, South Korea was looking like it was about to be wiped off the map.  Turns out, as we catch up to their numbers in testing, it only shows that the US was wayyy late to the game in preparedness and response, meaning we are more likely to have a greater outbreak percentage-wise since our much larger population has been passing Covid around far longer than Korea or Italy, who went into early lockdowns because their testing revealed the real threat.  As for warmer weather?  Check a Map of the US for Covid cases.  Florida and Louisiana and Texas and Arizona should all be Covid free.  they aren't.  The virus outbreak is unaffected by temperature and is far more closely tied to population and population density.  Your best bet right now is move to North Dakota, not Fort Lauderdale.

[More Cowbell]

24 minutes ago, CTM said:

Ok, but why can't they do something now, and do something again in 2 weeks should the situation not improve?

Who makes 500 a week. Do the politicians  think we all deliver Pizza for a living?

[Scott Dierking]

Just now, Rangers9 said:

I'm not calling them trials Cuomo did. It means they are gathering scientific data and using the scientific method.  If it works and it's approved they will use it. They are also experimenting with other drugs to treat this virus not just cholorquine. Scott what is your motive for being so optimistic about this drug. Why believe it something unproven even Fauci a scientist says unproven. Is it because you want to prove that Trump is right. If so that's not a good reason because he's not right. He's guessing and creating a distraction. 

Rangers9, there has been some anecdotal evidence, and some doctors that feel this may be a possible way to relieve some symptoms and most importantly buy some time and maybe even save some lives.

I have no idea. But that there have been some very respected health experts that say it deserves a chance, I will cling to that hope.

As far as my motive? Well, I would kind of like to have this nightmare come to an end earlier, have lives saved and allow all of us to thrive and prosper. Maybe that is selfish on my part.

I have not mentioned anything regarding politics. It has been YOU, that has done that in each of your answers. I will ask you, you do you seem to not think this is actually going live Tuesday, and why do you discourage hope?

[Matt39]

6 minutes ago, Rangers9 said:

 Scott what is your motive for being so optimistic 

Seriously?

[CTM]

2 minutes ago, More Cowbell said:

Who makes 500 a week. Do the politicians  think we all deliver Pizza for a living?

Are you unemployed? Why do you need anything today and why should government be funding anything than necessities?