Adam Gase on Jets WR options after injuries: 'Whoever's got a pulse right now'

[Jetsfan80]

2 minutes ago, RevisIsland610 said:

Could be or it could be that he could actually be a competent starting NFL QB if he were surrounded by real NFL talent and a coach that had a clue. 

The point is you don't get to wait until then to say if a QB has it or not.  He has 14 games to make the most with what he has.  He won't get 2021 unless he rises above his circumstances and prove he's the guy.  Its year 3.  The burden of proof is entirely on him.  

Meanwhile, Douglas has until May 3, 2021 to decide if he wants to hand Darnold $25M for the 2022 season.  

[BROOKLYN JET]

 

[RevisIsland610]

3 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

The point is you don't get to wait until then to say if a QB has it or not.  He has 14 games to make the most with what he has.  He won't get 2021 unless he rises above his circumstances and prove he's the guy.  Its year 3.  The burden of proof is entirely on him.  

Meanwhile, Douglas has until May 3, 2021 to decide if he wants to hand Darnold $25M for the 2022 season.  

Very easy for you to say the burden of proof is entirely on him when he has 37 yo Frank Gore as his main RB running behind a work in progress Oline and he's throwing to a starting WR tandem of Berrios and Malone. Add Adam Gase as his offensive genius HC and, well, I wish him the best of luck. 

[Jetsfan80]

3 minutes ago, RevisIsland610 said:

Very easy for you to say the burden of proof is entirely on him when he has 37 yo Frank Gore as his main RB running behind a work in progress Oline and he's throwing to a starting WR tandem of Berrios and Malone. Add Adam Gase as his offensive genius HC and, well, I wish him the best of luck. 

And yet here we are.  Life isn't fair.  Time to tough it out, Cali bro.  Earn that $25M.

[RevisIsland610]

5 minutes ago, BROOKLYN JET said:

 

haha, lets do it. Love DeAngelo. He would probably start for the Jets. NHL season won't start until January anyway. 

[RevisIsland610]

delete

[RevisIsland610]

2 minutes ago, RevisIsland610 said:

 

 

[RevisIsland610]

13 minutes ago, BROOKLYN JET said:

 

Are you Brooklyn Rangers Fan on HFNYR?

[Philc1]

25 minutes ago, Integrity28 said:

You’re kinda peeing down your leg with the anti-Sam takes.

Didn’t you know Sam is supposed to be rewriting the record books with Josh Malone and Chris Hogan?

[BROOKLYN JET]

Just now, RevisIsland610 said:

Are you Brooklyn Rangers Fan on HFNYR?

Nope, not me.

[jetstream23]

6 hours ago, Jethead said:

My beef is that Perriman and Herndon were forseeably unreliable and JD did nothing to mitigate.

Pretending we didn't have a WR issue was not a winning strategy.

Oh well, he's a rookie GM. Strategery!

Bingo!  Even if healthy, counting on another team's WR3 to be your WR1 and a rookie to be your WR2 isn't a great strategy.  Perriman's highest reception total in a season was 36, last year.  He's played for 4 teams now at 26 years old.  Denzel Mims has 0 NFL snaps.

The only reliable veteran in the entire WR group was Crowder.

Joe Douglas was counting on, depending on, two unproven WRs to step in and instantly upgrade his WR1 and WR2 spots.  That's a bad plan.

I like the youth movement, I like obtaining guys with strong athletic profiles and high upsides, but you should only do that after you've checked the boxes of having reliability in place.

The more I think about it the WR group truly was a house of cards heading into this season.

[RevisIsland610]

1 minute ago, jetstream23 said:

Bingo!  Even if healthy, counting on another team's WR3 to be your WR1 and a rookie to be your WR2 isn't a great strategy.  Perriman's highest reception total in a season was 36, last year.  He's played for 4 teams now at 26 years old.  Denzel Mims has 0 NFL snaps.

The only reliable veteran in the entire WR group was Crowder.

Joe Douglas was counting on, depending on, two unproven WRs to step in and instantly upgrade his WR1 and WR2 spots.  That's a bad plan.

I like the youth movement, I like obtaining guys with strong athletic profiles and high upsides, but you should only do that after you've checked the boxes of having reliability in place.

The more I think about it the WR group truly was a house of cards heading into this season.

Agreed. Bad job by JoeD and I have supported him but he has a lot to do with this WR mess and he made a big mistake by not signing Anderson. 

[BROOKLYN JET]

[jetstream23]

1 hour ago, RevisIsland610 said:

Agreed. Bad job by JoeD and I have supported him but he has a lot to do with this WR mess and he made a big mistake by not signing Anderson. 

Yup.  The unabashed accolades for Joe Douglas are simply unearned at this point.  He's done some things well, others not so much.  I'm as optimistic as anyone about the approach being taken with younger players and better management of the salary cap, but for the here and now the Jets are a mess and Joe D deserves a certain percentage of the blame for that.  He's now in month 15 of the job.

There are several positives including a good start at rebuilding the OLine, judiciously managing the salary cap, accumulating draft picks for future years, etc. but it's hard to look at the LB group, the CBs, the WRs and say that Joe D did a good job preparing for the 2020 season.

[Losmeister]

2 hours ago, jetstream23 said:

I like the youth movement, I like obtaining guys with strong athletic profiles and high upsides, but you should only do that after you've checked the boxes of having reliability in place.

a plan that worked pout badly due to injury (so far) isnt necessarily a bad plan... 

V smith was a b/u   hurt...planned starter perriman injured in camp a bit, then again in week 2, mims out the whole time...

now chowda is hurt....

as for reliability...   also the planned startin Lbs are done...   ivene the 1st backup is out....

how can a reliably bad team become reliable in teh teimehe has had?

i would like to see a list of all the guys macc signed...   keep it as an emetic in case someone in my house o/ds ...

The Jets ranked 31st of 32 teams in players drafted from 2015 to 2018 that are still in the NFL, according to a study by salary-cap-research website Over the Cap. Two of Maccagnan’s three second-round picks—wide receiver Devin Smith and quarterback Christian Hackenberg—washed out of the NFL by 2018, an astonishing figure considering over 90 percent of second-rounders taken since 2015 are still in the league. Perhaps realizing his bad luck, Maccagnan traded New York’s three other second-rounders to move up and draft Sam Darnold in 2018, which will be his lasting legacy with the team. 

so Mac got the really big one RIGHT?    

[Dunnie]

He has to as the GM. Thats his job. If he has the opportunity to take Lawrence he probably has to but that doesn't mean Darnold hasn't gotten a raw deal with the garbage that has surrounded him since he has been here. 

Imagine having Darnold AND Lawrence ... That is not all that bad.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using JetNation.com mobile app

[jgb]

8 hours ago, JetBlue said:

I was concerned about his injury history too.  If healthy I thought he could do an adequate job...  That is why I just KNEW we would take a couple of receivers in this draft...  

Going from mocking all things Miami and Gase to justifying that he was going to be a good HC here was one of the most interesting examples of cognitive dissonance I’ve ever observed in real time 

[jgb]

5 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

And yet here we are.  Life isn't fair.  Time to tough it out, Cali bro.  Earn that $25M.

If it were up to Jets fans Geno would still be our starter. 

[56mehl56]

14 hours ago, JetBlue said:

Was he working with the first team offense?  Because, you know that does make a difference.   

If there are only two healthy receivers what do you think ?

[CTJetsFan]

10 hours ago, jetstream23 said:

Bingo!  Even if healthy, counting on another team's WR3 to be your WR1 and a rookie to be your WR2 isn't a great strategy.  Perriman's highest reception total in a season was 36, last year.  He's played for 4 teams now at 26 years old.  Denzel Mims has 0 NFL snaps.

The only reliable veteran in the entire WR group was Crowder.

Joe Douglas was counting on, depending on, two unproven WRs to step in and instantly upgrade his WR1 and WR2 spots.  That's a bad plan.

I like the youth movement, I like obtaining guys with strong athletic profiles and high upsides, but you should only do that after you've checked the boxes of having reliability in place.

The more I think about it the WR group truly was a house of cards heading into this season.

In all fairness, even though it was a flyer, JD also brought in Josh Doctson who opted out on us.

That means JD signed Perriman & Doctson, drafted Mims, and signed Cager (who many felt was draftable) as an UDFA.

Can't say JD ignored the position, his moves just haven''t worked out. Yes, I wanted them to re-sign Robbie too. It sucks for Sam that they've been decimated by injuries, but no team could withstand their top 4 projected WRs going down (giving Vyncint Smth the nod) or being out this early.

[jetstream23]

9 hours ago, Losmeister said:

a plan that worked pout badly due to injury (so far) isnt necessarily a bad plan... 

V smith was a b/u   hurt...planned starter perriman injured in camp a bit, then again in week 2, mims out the whole time...

now chowda is hurt....

as for reliability...   also the planned startin Lbs are done...   ivene the 1st backup is out....

how can a reliably bad team become reliable in teh teimehe has had?

i would like to see a list of all the guys macc signed...   keep it as an emetic in case someone in my house o/ds ...

The Jets ranked 31st of 32 teams in players drafted from 2015 to 2018 that are still in the NFL, according to a study by salary-cap-research website Over the Cap. Two of Maccagnan’s three second-round picks—wide receiver Devin Smith and quarterback Christian Hackenberg—washed out of the NFL by 2018, an astonishing figure considering over 90 percent of second-rounders taken since 2015 are still in the league. Perhaps realizing his bad luck, Maccagnan traded New York’s three other second-rounders to move up and draft Sam Darnold in 2018, which will be his lasting legacy with the team. 

so Mac got the really big one RIGHT?    

You might be missing my point (or I'm not making it clearly enough).  I'm saying that it's not the injuries that are the only problem.  Regardless of the injuries the plan was still bad.  Aside from Jamison Crowder the Jets had nobody on the entire WR roster with more than 36 receptions in a season.  There were no true, experienced WR1 or WR2 type guys..... just hopefuls like Perriman and Mims.

At least last year we had experienced guys who were every down players, even if they weren't ideal, were a little old, or were more like WR2's....Crowder, Robby Anderson, Demaryius Thomas were experienced guys.  Two of them are no longer here and Joe D's replacements were Tampa's WR3 (Perriman) and a late 2nd round rookie who has never seen a live NFL snap.

Injured or not, the WR depth chart was constructed in a very risky way.  It was a house of cards.

[slimjasi]

1 minute ago, jetstream23 said:

You might be missing my point (or I'm not making it clearly enough).  I'm saying that it's not the injuries that are the only problem.  Regardless of the injuries the plan was still bad.  Aside from Jamison Crowder the Jets had nobody on the entire WR roster with more than 36 receptions in a season.  There were no true, experienced WR1 or WR2 type guys..... just hopefuls like Perriman and Mims.

At least last year we had experienced guys who were every down players, even if they weren't ideal, were a little old, or were more like WR2's....Crowder, Robby Anderson, Demaryius Thomas were experienced guys.  Two of them are no longer here and Joe D's replacements were Tampa's WR3 (Perriman) and a late 2nd round rookie who has never seen a live NFL snap.

Injured or not, the WR depth chart was constructed in a very risky way.  It was a house of cards.

Couldn't agree more. This is the main criticism I have of Douglas, thus far. 

[Augustiniak]

40 minutes ago, CTJetsFan said:

In all fairness, even though it was a flyer, JD also brought in Josh Doctson who opted out on us.

That means JD signed Perriman & Doctson, drafted Mims, and signed Cager (who many felt was draftable) as an UDFA.

Can't say JD ignored the position, his moves just haven''t worked out. Yes, I wanted them to re-sign Robbie too. It sucks for Sam that they've been decimated by injuries, but no team could withstand their top 4 projected WRs going down (giving Vyncint Smth the nod) or being out this early.

at the time of the draft, the odds of crowder, perriman, bell, mims, j. smith, v. smith and hogan all being injured for week 3 were quite small.  throw in that herndon sucks balls, and that's more or less everyone who was counted on for darnold to throw to at least early on.  

another theory i have is that if gase lets darnold be darnold and improvise and make plays, then the credit will go to darnold and not to gase.  so gase keeps darnold reigned in his system.

[jetstream23]

34 minutes ago, CTJetsFan said:

In all fairness, even though it was a flyer, JD also brought in Josh Doctson who opted out on us.

That means JD signed Perriman & Doctson, drafted Mims, and signed Cager (who many felt was draftable) as an UDFA.

Can't say JD ignored the position, his moves just haven''t worked out. Yes, I wanted them to re-sign Robbie too. It sucks for Sam that they've been decimated by injuries, but no team could withstand their top 4 projected WRs going down (giving Vyncint Smth the nod) or being out this early.

I agree with this.  He certainly didn't ignore the position.  And, as I've said, I like his goals of getting younger, higher upside guys with great athletic profiles to build around.  Perriman and Mims have very strong height/speed/athleticism combinations.... but they're both inexperienced and counting on either of them to be a WR1 or WR2 right out of the gate was risky.  Guys like Vyncint Smith, Berrios, Cager are supposed to be the icing on the WR cake....guys who, if one of them hits, takes the group from good to great because you now have a difference maker at WR4.  The problem is there's no cake to put that icing on.  Joe had a great approach for the bottom of the depth chart, but it can't be the approach at the top.  Joe D came to this realization only after injuries in Camp when he signed Chris Hogan, a decent dependable veteran.  He needed more experience at the WR spot.

[56mehl56]

4 minutes ago, jetstream23 said:

You might be missing my point (or I'm not making it clearly enough).  I'm saying that it's not the injuries that are the only problem.  Regardless of the injuries the plan was still bad.  Aside from Jamison Crowder the Jets had nobody on the entire WR roster with more than 36 receptions in a season.  There were no true, experienced WR1 or WR2 type guys..... just hopefuls like Perriman and Mims.

At least last year we had experienced guys who were every down players, even if they weren't ideal, were a little old, or were more like WR2's....Crowder, Robby Anderson, Demaryius Thomas were experienced guys.  Two of them are no longer here and Joe D's replacements were Tampa's WR3 (Perriman) and a late 2nd round rookie who has never seen a live NFL snap.

Injured or not, the WR depth chart was constructed in a very risky way.  It was a house of cards.

First off moving away from guys like Demaryius Thomas is a step in the right direction.  If you're a SB contender and need a stop-gap vet for depth he's a great signing . In a situation like the Jets any rep he's taking away from younger guys is folly. Its just unfortunate that 5 or 6 of our younger players got injured. 

 

As far as Perriman goes , he was a #3 because he was behind Evans and Godwin.  I'll contend Perriman if healthy provides everything that Robbie did ( speed/stretch the field) but runs a better route tree than Robbie ever did. 

They took steps this year , rebuilding the Oline , drafting Mims & Perine. Next year they add on with their draft capital , things are heading in the right direction . 

[sec101row23]

4 minutes ago, jetstream23 said:

I agree with this.  He certainly didn't ignore the position.  And, as I've said, I like his goals of getting younger, higher upside guys with great athletic profiles to build around.  Perriman and Mims have very strong height/speed/athleticism combinations.... but they're both inexperienced and counting on either of them to be a WR1 or WR2 right out of the gate was risky.  Guys like Vyncint Smith, Berrios, Cager are supposed to be the icing on the WR cake....guys who, if one of them hits, takes the group from good to great because you now have a difference maker at WR4.  The problem is there's no cake to put that icing on.  Joe had a great approach for the bottom of the depth chart, but it can't be the approach at the top.  Joe D came to this realization only after injuries in Camp when he signed Chris Hogan, a decent dependable veteran.  He needed more experience at the WR spot.

Agreed.   The problem is that there isn’t an abundance of decent FA WRs usually available and the ones who have options generally aren’t coming to the Jets unless they are vastly overpaid to do so.   So we are left with the Perrimans and Doctsons and the like, guys who simply don’t move the needle or advance the franchise.   It’s going to be the same situation next year as Crowder, Mims and Berrios are the only WRs under contract for 2021.  My guess is that the Jets will be yet again be an undesirable destination for WRs.  

[Jethead]

Perriman blossoming is Jets magical thinking.  As Tuna was fond of saying, "You are who your record says you are."

Same with Herndon. He now qualifies as a disappointment, trending towards bust.

For JD to bet on either of those guys was misguided.

Hope is not a strategy.

[CTJetsFan]

12 minutes ago, jetstream23 said:

I agree with this.  He certainly didn't ignore the position.  And, as I've said, I like his goals of getting younger, higher upside guys with great athletic profiles to build around.  Perriman and Mims have very strong height/speed/athleticism combinations.... but they're both inexperienced and counting on either of them to be a WR1 or WR2 right out of the gate was risky.  Guys like Vyncint Smith, Berrios, Cager are supposed to be the icing on the WR cake....guys who, if one of them hits, takes the group from good to great because you now have a difference maker at WR4.  The problem is there's no cake to put that icing on.  Joe had a great approach for the bottom of the depth chart, but it can't be the approach at the top.  Joe D came to this realization only after injuries in Camp when he signed Chris Hogan, a decent dependable veteran.  He needed more experience at the WR spot.

Fair points. I agree

[Augustiniak]

2 minutes ago, sec101row23 said:

Agreed.   The problem is that there isn’t an abundance of decent FA WRs usually available and the ones who have options generally aren’t coming to the Jets unless they are vastly overpaid to do so.   So we are left with the Perrimans and Doctsons and the like, guys who simply don’t move the needle or advance the franchise.   It’s going to be the same situation next year as Crowder, Mims and Berrios are the only WRs under contract for 2021.  My guess is that the Jets will be yet again be an undesirable destination for WRs.  

jets won't have true weapons until they aggressively go out and draft them.  even this draft, douglas was in no hurry to take a wr and mims fell to them after he traded to the back of the 2nd.  then he took 2 defensive players in the 3rd round.  this should tell you what his plan is.  he was in no hurry to get real weapons this season.  he wanted functional starters in crowder, perriman and herndon and so far only crowder fits that bill.  bell sucks and gets hurt a lot.  2020 was not the go all out year, with this schedule, covid and an entirely new OL.  i think by midseason, assuming these wrs return, we'll see if darnold is 'the guy' or if he's just another qb prospect who didn't pan out on the jets.  and it's not like these guys leave the jets and get good, these qbs fade.  

it's not hard to see what douglas is thinking, it's about 2021 when he may need another qb and has draft capital to trade up for one if he even needs to.  he's got a lot of games to get mims and perine in there.  and it's not like ruggs or jeudy are lighting it up either.

[jetstream23]

3 minutes ago, 56mehl56 said:

First off moving away from guys like Demaryius Thomas is a step in the right direction.

I agree with this only if you have at least one guy other than Crowder who is a proven, dependable route runner and someone who has some experience as an every day starter.  Mims isn't that guy.

3 minutes ago, 56mehl56 said:

If you're a SB contender and need a stop-gap vet for depth he's a great signing . In a situation like the Jets any rep he's taking away from younger guys is folly. Its just unfortunate that 5 or 6 of our younger players got injured. 

True, but regardless of being a Super Bowl contender, if you're trying to get an offense to function at a basic level then you need trustworthy guys who have some experience, especially in the offense.  Other than Crowder there was zero consistency maintained at the WR spot from 2019 to 2020.  Not bringing Robby Anderson back for $10M per year is looking like a poor decision, and not just because of injuries.

On Sunday the Jets will only be playing one WR who had experience with Darnold prior to July, Braxton Berrios.  Guys like Robby Anderson or Demaryius Thomas, who of course the Jets want to upgrade, would have at least given the passing game an element of consistency and comfort with the QB.

 

3 minutes ago, 56mehl56 said:

As far as Perriman goes , he was a #3 because he was behind Evans and Godwin.  I'll contend Perriman if healthy provides everything that Robbie did ( speed/stretch the field) but runs a better route tree than Robbie ever did. 

They took steps this year , rebuilding the Oline , drafting Mims & Perine. Next year they add on with their draft capital , things are heading in the right direction . 

As I've said, I like what we're tying to do at WR, but it was a gamble.  Dallas added a better prospect than Mims by drafting CeeDee Lamb to a position that already includes solid veterans like Amari Cooper and Michael Gallup.  There was no expectation or urgency for Lamb to contribute immediately.  The Jets WR plan included counting on guys who had never served as WR1 or WR2 before to step in and not only start, but to be upgrades from last season.  That's a plan built on hope.

Priority #1 was the OLine, I think Joe D addressed it as well as he could in a single offseason, swapping 4 of the 5 starters.  He also added EXPERIENCED guys like McGovern, Fant, GVR.  Joe D didn't do at OLine what he did at WR.  Imagine if he had signed another team's talented backup Center, talented backup OG, and counted on a late 2nd round rookie to protect the QB.  That's what was done at WR.

[jetstream23]

5 minutes ago, Jethead said:

Perriman blossoming is Jets magical thinking.  As Tuna was fond of saying, "You are who your record says you are."

Same with Herndon. He now qualifies as a disappointment, trending towards bust.

For JD to bet on either of those guys was misguided.

Hope is not a strategy.

You're in my head.  I just said the same thing.

It wasn't a smart strategy for a season in which you're hoping to assess a young QB either.

[slimjasi]

20 minutes ago, 56mehl56 said:

I'll contend Perriman if healthy provides everything that Robbie did ( speed/stretch the field) but runs a better route tree than Robbie ever did. 

What is this based on? 

[Jetsfan80]

7 hours ago, jgb said:

If it were up to Jets fans Geno would still be our starter. 

@Pac

[56mehl56]

2 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

What is this based on? 

My own eyes. Robbie was a one trick pony with the Jets. He was great at stretching the field.  Running other routes he looked disinterested at times and I rarely ever saw him come back upfield to aid Darnold during scramble drills.  Now , I'm sure I'm over generalizing and if you broke down film you'd find some instances of him doing those things , but again I'll claim it was rare.  Perriman  especially last year with Winston at OB was very good at the speed routes but more importantly  had a nice rapport with Jameis when plays broke down. In my eyes he's a better overall wr .

[Jetsfan80]

20 minutes ago, sec101row23 said:

Agreed.   The problem is that there isn’t an abundance of decent FA WRs usually available and the ones who have options generally aren’t coming to the Jets unless they are vastly overpaid to do so.   So we are left with the Perrimans and Doctsons and the like, guys who simply don’t move the needle or advance the franchise.   It’s going to be the same situation next year as Crowder, Mims and Berrios are the only WRs under contract for 2021.  My guess is that the Jets will be yet again be an undesirable destination for WRs.  

Meh.  With so few teams projected to have an abundance of cap space next season, that's not necessarily true.  The top-end free agent WRs may not come here, but there will be quite a few good Tier 2/3 FA's in next year's class.  Not ALL of these guys are getting re-signed:

• Allen Robinson
• Kenny Golladay
• Chris Godwin
• JuJu Smith-Schuster
• Marvin Jones
• T.Y. Hilton
• A.J. Green
• Larry Fitzgerald
• Will Fuller
• Sammy Watkins
• Corey Davis
• Kenny Stills
• Curtis Samuel
• Phillip Dorsett
• Tajae Sharpe
• Dede Westbrook
• John Ross
• Chris Conley
• Keelan Cole
• Demarcus Robinson
• Willie Snead
• David Moore
• Chris Moore