Zach Wilson Video

[LAD_Brooklyn]

On 1/23/2021 at 11:11 AM, section314 said:

To be fair, people asked the same things about Josh Allen. Even pointed out that in   his one "true test" his Sr year, think it was against Iowa, he was terrible.

The difference with Allen now was his team wasn't superior vs the competition each and every week. Therefore it was cleared to spot his flaws and gifts. 

[LAD_Brooklyn]

Anyone notice how 49ers fans are drooling over this kid in all his YouTube highlights? Now fast foward to today and we have their coaching staff.

[JohnnyLV]

3 hours ago, win4ever said:

 

To Cossel: https://www.google.com/amp/s/sports.yahoo.com/amphtml/greg-cosells-draft-analysis-josh-rosen-refined-perhaps-best-qb-class-151629623.html

I don't think there's a perfect fit because the system he runs has concepts that fit into the Shanahan system. The idea being that he's familiar with the concepts enough that he understands the playbook better, which is definitely an advantage for sure. However, Lawrence and Fields have adjusted to their system extremely well, thus there is no evidence they can't fit into a Shanahan offense.

I don't think he's a loser, I think he has top 10 talent, I just think Fields is better.

The system issue for me stems from the competition. If the opponents are far inferior in talent, then his transition is cloudy. He can stare down a comeback route in against some colleges, but can't do the same against defenses that can match the talent. It's also why I don't like scouting Ohio State vs Florida Atlantic or Clemson vs bottom feeder because the mismatch hides issues.

It could be fine, it could be an issue, but that's added risk. I don't think the premise is "Would we take Wilson on the team?" because the answer is yes. We would all take him. The issue is, would you take him over Fields and why?

 

Don't care about the competition as he is clearly vastly superior to his competition. Outside of running he is better in every way than Fields. I think Wilson will be a star Fields will not translate well to the NFL may have some limited success in run heavy RPO offense.

[Bruce Harper]

On 1/23/2021 at 12:21 PM, QB1 said:

If Wilson is 6”3 I have a 12 inch cock 

Proportionally, does that mean he is actually 2'1"?

[win4ever]

Don't care about the competition as he is clearly vastly superior to his competition. Outside of running he is better in every way than Fields. I think Wilson will be a star Fields will not translate well to the NFL may have some limited success in run heavy RPO offense.

That very well could be true. It's an inexact science, so I could be wrong, you could be right, or we could both be right/wrong.

My feeling is Fields is better than Wilson but I respect your opinion.

[Dunnie]

4 minutes ago, win4ever said:

 

That very well could be true. It's an inexact science, so I could be wrong, you could be right, or we could both be right/wrong.

My feeling is Fields is better than Wilson but I respect your opinion.

 

Totally agree with this ...

My feeling is that Wilson far superior arm talent and therefore i want that guy.

Edited January 25, 2021 by Dunnie

[maury77]

On 1/23/2021 at 6:50 PM, QB1 said:

I don’t think Wilson has that strong of an arm 

But he has great flexibility and balance so he can torque and use his entire core to throw even when off platform, to me it looks like he exerts a lot of energy on his throws 

As a golf analogy he is kind of like Justin Thomas. Undersized but still long because he is flexible and goes full tilt on every swing 

It works for him now but because of his injury history I am not sure that is sustainable long term 

I’d rather bet on Fields or keep Darnold than go with Wilson. But I’ll trust and support whatever JD and Saleh do for now  

Good post. 

[Dunnie]

On 1/23/2021 at 6:50 PM, QB1 said:

I don’t think Wilson has that strong of an arm 

But he has great flexibility and balance so he can torque and use his entire core to throw even when off platform, to me it looks like he exerts a lot of energy on his throws 

As a golf analogy he is kind of like Justin Thomas. Undersized but still long because he is flexible and goes full tilt on every swing 

It works for him now but because of his injury history I am not sure that is sustainable long term 

I’d rather bet on Fields or keep Darnold than go with Wilson. But I’ll trust and support whatever JD and Saleh do for now  

Not sure ..  I came away feeling he was effortless after watching more tape of him. One thing is indisputable ... dude is accurate as ****.

[JohnnyLV]

1 hour ago, win4ever said:

 

That very well could be true. It's an inexact science, so I could be wrong, you could be right, or we could both be right/wrong.

My feeling is Fields is better than Wilson but I respect your opinion.

 

I rarely have strong opinions about college players because it is so difficult to predict., but I think Wilson is the best college QB i have watched. and Fielfs I just see as good at the college level but not a NFL QB. As you mentioned I could be 100% off

[82nd Airborne]

On 1/23/2021 at 12:21 PM, QB1 said:

If Wilson is 6”3 I have a 12 inch cock 

Work on 6 before you get to 12. 

[kdels62]

23 hours ago, T0mShane said:

Wilson was sacked 11 times in 12 games.

Fields was sacked 14 times in 5 games. 

The difference in quality of opponent is such a huge factor. Wilson will obviously be facing improved pass rushes in the NFL—ones that Fields has already gotten a taste of in the power five. 

[More Cowbell]

I didn't  watch the entire video because I saw most of the highlights on him already but one thing,  this kid had no defenders within 5 yards of him on any of those throws. I know it's  the same with Fields, TL or (insert name of QB prospect you want to hype here) but this doesn't  exist when you play the better teams. He has to play the Bills twice a year and he is not only going to get sacked, he is going to get hit a lot. Just look at the games yesterday. All the QB's had to play against tremendous  pressure. Is he going to be able to handle this? I can't say I think he will. 

[T0mShane]

3 hours ago, kdels62 said:

When I was looking up the sack numbers, I came across the stats under pressure rankings and Fields was abysmal, Lawrence was just ok, and the two best in the country (iirc) were Mac Jones and Spencer Rattler. 

[kdels62]

3 hours ago, More Cowbell said:

I didn't  watch the entire video because I saw most of the highlights on him already but one thing,  this kid had no defenders within 5 yards of him on any of those throws. I know it's  the same with Fields, TL or (insert name of QB prospect you want to hype here) but this doesn't  exist when you play the better teams. He has to play the Bills twice a year and he is not only going to get sacked, he is going to get hit a lot. Just look at the games yesterday. All the QB's had to play against tremendous  pressure. Is he going to be able to handle this? I can't say I think he will. 

And yet you think keeping Darnold who has proven to be the worst QB against the blitz in the NFL for 3 season is a good idea?

[peebag]

On 1/23/2021 at 1:40 PM, Larz said:

I’m at the point where I’m going to trust whatever Douglas saleh and lefleur decide at QB

Why?

[More Cowbell]

9 minutes ago, kdels62 said:

And yet you think keeping Darnold who has proven to be the worst QB against the blitz in the NFL for 3 season is a good idea?

What i think is the QB's in this draft after Lawrence are not worth the second pick in the draft

[Fantasy Island]

On 1/23/2021 at 11:00 AM, JTJet said:

I support Zach wilson for sure, but comparing his size to Mr. Glass isnt going to convince anyone of anything. 

This is Mr. Glass

[kdels62]

12 minutes ago, More Cowbell said:

What i think is the QB's in this draft after Lawrence are not worth the second pick in the draft

Why? Both Fields and Wilson put up comparable numbers? Neither has an issue where they sky the ball if they can’t step into throws. Lawrence neither has the arm strength of Wilson nor the athleticism of Fields. All 3 are worthy of top 10 picks. Lawrence is the safest pick but all 3 have a lot to like.

[bitonti]

Zach wilson:

Has played no one legit 

Has multiple shoulder reconstructions

Is frail due to not working out due to the shoulder reconstructions

Is short by nfl standards 

is surrounded by 24 year old linemen 

Has shown no ability to take a pro hit. Can't even take hits vs coastal Carolina (who lost their bowl game to liberty) 

Is the spoiled son of privilege etc (if that's to be believed) 

Pass... hard pass at 2. Maybe at 23 or whatever no thanks at 2 overall. Too many red flags for such an elite pick 

And side note James Morgan in year 2  might legit be better than rookie year wilson 

 

[JTJet]

10 minutes ago, Fantasy Island said:

This is Mr. Glass

Eh. That's Mr. Nobody..

[#27TheDominator]

So is everybody completely off Lance or does he have the chance to rise back up during the draft process? 

I don't watch these kids much, but Fields seems to have a much stronger arm to me.  I see Wilson throw a lot of jump passes and heaves and they often seem to be into coverage, if well placed.  

I don't necessarily "trust" Douglas, Saleh and their staff to make the right choice, but it is up to them to pick the guy they can work with and make him succeed.  If they don't, that is on them.  I am pretty sure that more than one good starting QB will come ouf of this class.  I just hope that includes the one we pick 

[kdels62]

16 minutes ago, bitonti said:

Zach wilson:

Has played no one legit 

As opposed to Lawrence who just loses to legit comp and Fields who loses to legit como?

Has multiple shoulder reconstructions

Had 1 minor surgery on his throwing shoulder in 3 years as a college QB

Is frail due to not working out due to the shoulder reconstructions

Was not injured his true freshman year nor his Junior year

Is short by nfl standards 

according to you if you squint 

is surrounded by 24 year old linemen 

1 of which will be drafted 

Has shown no ability to take a pro hit. Can't even take hits vs coastal Carolina (who lost their bowl game to liberty) 

Was pressured on 50% of drop backs. Took multiple hits. Drove his team to the 1 yard line as time expired on 3 days notice. Liberty/ CC/ BYU all have similar talent levels. 

Is the spoiled son of privilege etc (if that's to be believed) 

I often forget the hard knock stories of Tom Brady, Aaron Rodgers, Pat Mahomes, Eli Manning... etc 

Pass... hard pass at 2. Maybe at 23 or whatever no thanks at 2 overall. Too many red flags for such an elite pick 

And side note James Morgan in year 2  might legit be better than rookie year wilson 

Cool except in every way, Zach Wilson is a better prospect.

 

[kdels62]

5 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

So is everybody completely off Lance or does he have the chance to rise back up during the draft process? 

I don't watch these kids much, but Fields seems to have a much stronger arm to me.  I see Wilson throw a lot of jump passes and heaves and they often seem to be into coverage, if well placed.  

I don't necessarily "trust" Douglas, Saleh and their staff to make the right choice, but it is up to them to pick the guy they can work with and make him succeed.  If they don't, that is on them.  I am pretty sure that more than one good starting QB will come ouf of this class.  I just hope that includes the one we pick 

Lance, Fields, Wilson... they are all very good prospects. Lance require a more long term development plan that Wilson or Fields.

[JTJet]

37 minutes ago, bitonti said:

Zach wilson:

Has played no one legit

(Yes he has. Houston 2x, Boise State, USC, Washington, Coastal Carolina, and UCF, all either big time programs, OR have been very good the last couple years. He also cannot control the teams he has a chance to play against. He was one of the first players to advocate to play ranked Coastal Carolina knowing it could hurt his draft stock) 

Has multiple shoulder reconstructions

(Many QBs have as well, namely Drew Brees. He had a worse injury and carved out 15 more years after the fact)

Is frail due to not working out due to the shoulder reconstructions

(Somewhat fair point, but this could easily change by the time season starts anyways) 

Is short by nfl standards.

(No he is not. He is 6'3 and even if that's inflated by an inch and he is 6'2, he would be in the middle of the pack for NFL QBs, he is taller, heavier, and has bigger hands than Drew Brees)

is surrounded by 24 year old linemen

(Means nothing, they were all generally less talented than Ohio State, Alabama, or Clemsons O Lines that all contain potential first rounders) 

Has shown no ability to take a pro hit. Can't even take hits vs coastal Carolina (who lost their bowl game to liberty)

(He has taken plenty of hits, played that game on a very short week, even when they didnt need to play that game, AND he almost won it on the final play of the game, if you watched that game you would know) 

Is the spoiled son of privilege etc (if that's to be believed) 

(Means nothing if he can play) 

Pass... hard pass at 2. Maybe at 23 or whatever no thanks at 2 overall. Too many red flags for such an elite pick.

(There are only the red flags you perceive or made up)

And side note James Morgan in year 2  might legit be better than rookie year wilson.

(This if just false) 

 

[JTJet]

3 minutes ago, kdels62 said:

 

Dammit man. You beat me to it lol. 

[bitonti]

49 minutes ago, JTJet said:

 

Drew Brees was a second Rd pick Rodgers went 24, Brady went Rd 6. If a dude lacks proper nfl measurements and has a list of surgical procedures, he's maybe not worth 2 overall 

It's not that I hate Wilson. It's just an overdraft at 2 many here are operating from the perspective of desperation at qb. 

JD is not desperate. They have many other picks and could package them to get wilson at mid Rd prices. Or whatever. They can sign Matt Stafford. They don't need to do this qb thing right now 

[More Cowbell]

1 hour ago, kdels62 said:

Why? Both Fields and Wilson put up comparable numbers? Neither has an issue where they sky the ball if they can’t step into throws. Lawrence neither has the arm strength of Wilson nor the athleticism of Fields. All 3 are worthy of top 10 picks. Lawrence is the safest pick but all 3 have a lot to like.

Zach Wilson I definitely do not think should be the #2 pick this season. 

He has played subpar competition his one season we are judging him on. 

Has had multiple shoulder surgeries

Does not posses an NFL frame

Is short by NFL standards

Has never taken a big hit, at least not that I have seen

Fields a bit closer but I don't spend it on him either. 

In Fields case I don't see the amount of red flags I see with Wilson but I feel he isn't the second best O player we can take. I rather take Chase or Smith over Fields, even Sewell. I think they both are more rare type players than Fields. 

As far as TL, I am deferring to what all the people here and all the experts have said about him, how he has to be the top pick. Honestly I have a tough time seeing him as this once in a lifetime player from what I have seen. I think he benefitted greatly from the talent on Clemson but they guy has put up gawdy numbers.  

[Greensleeves]

1 hour ago, bitonti said:

Zach wilson:

Has played no one legit 

Has multiple shoulder reconstructions

Is frail due to not working out due to the shoulder reconstructions

Is short by nfl standards 

is surrounded by 24 year old linemen 

Has shown no ability to take a pro hit. Can't even take hits vs coastal Carolina (who lost their bowl game to liberty) 

Is the spoiled son of privilege etc (if that's to be believed) 

Pass... hard pass at 2. Maybe at 23 or whatever no thanks at 2 overall. Too many red flags for such an elite pick 

And side note James Morgan in year 2  might legit be better than rookie year wilson 

 

so - I'm assuming you don't like his mug either? 

 

[Greensleeves]

14 minutes ago, More Cowbell said:

Zach Wilson I definitely do not think should be the #2 pick this season. 

He has played subpar competition his one season we are judging him on. 

Has had multiple shoulder surgeries

Does not posses an NFL frame

Is short by NFL standards

Has never taken a big hit, at least not that I have seen

Fields a bit closer but I don't spend it on him either. 

In Fields case I don't see the amount of red flags I see with Wilson but I feel he isn't the second best O player we can take. I rather take Chase or Smith over Fields, even Sewell. I think they both are more rare type players than Fields. 

As far as TL, I am deferring to what all the people here and all the experts have said about him, how he has to be the top pick. Honestly I have a tough time seeing him as this once in a lifetime player from what I have seen. I think he benefitted greatly from the talent on Clemson but they guy has put up gawdy numbers.  

It's easy to change opinions on Wilson and Fields. If we don't get Watson, I do believe Wilson is the best option. Not only is he very accurate and have a strong arm, but he will be really well suited to the new offense that will be implemented. I think he's going to be a star in this league. If JD does, then he should take him. No-one thought Watson and Mahomes should go 6th - how did that turn out for us? If you really like a guy, who cares what other people think about draft spots. If anyone took Brady with the first pick that year they would have been the laughing stock of the league - same with Wilson, Montana, Favre. QB evaluation is an inexact science. The fact that he will most probably go #2 to someone says a lot about what teams and scouts think of his potential.

[JTJet]

23 minutes ago, bitonti said:

Drew Brees was a second Rd pick Rodgers went 24, Brady went Rd 6. If a dude lacks proper nfl measurements and has a list of surgical procedures, he's maybe not worth 2 overall 

It's not that I hate Wilson. It's just an overdraft at 2 many here are operating from the perspective of desperation at qb. 

JD is not desperate. They have many other picks and could package them to get wilson at mid Rd prices. Or whatever. They can sign Matt Stafford. They don't need to do this qb thing right now 

I get what you're saying. I agree a little bit that he is a reach at 2, but if he pans out to Drew Brees level, you would never care. Theres a gigantic risk/reward to consider yes. 

[56mehl56]

17 minutes ago, Greensleeves said:

It's easy to change opinions on Wilson and Fields. If we don't get Watson, I do believe Wilson is the best option. Not only is he very accurate and have a strong arm, but he will be really well suited to the new offense that will be implemented. I think he's going to be a star in this league. If JD does, then he should take him. No-one thought Watson and Mahomes should go 6th - how did that turn out for us? If you really like a guy, who cares what other people think about draft spots. If anyone took Brady with the first pick that year they would have been the laughing stock of the league - same with Wilson, Montana, Favre. QB evaluation is an inexact science. The fact that he will most probably go #2 to someone says a lot about what teams and scouts think of his potential.

I keep seeing this repeated over and over again. tbh from what I read of the offense it is suited to any QB who is athletic and mobile. Hell they are saying it is suited for Darnold so then it obviously is suited for Fields as well. 

[bitonti]

35 minutes ago, JTJet said:

I get what you're saying. I agree a little bit that he is a reach at 2, but if he pans out to Drew Brees level, you would never care. Theres a gigantic risk/reward to consider yes. 

Let me also add the Jets could deal Sewell to the Bengals and take wilson plus an extra 2nd Rd or whatever. And that's fine. 2 is elite, check the draft value board 

Joe Douglas traded 10 picks to get mims he's not going to reach. That doesn't mean that he hates the qb its just not in his interest to show love to the qb at 2 

Here's the game theory cheat sheet:

Jets love Sewell because he's the only player beside Trevor who is a legit NFL blue chip prospect. There are a million red chips there are 2 blue chips. 

Fields and Wilson are flawed prospects because if teams believe Jets are going to take a QB at 2, the Sewell trade market will be at 3

There is no wilson or fields trade market at 2.

The Jets love darnold because they are trading darnold and want max value

This is what they have to do whether they believe it or not is not relevant 

It's like buying a car. You don't walk in there and say I want that car and I'll pay anything. Jd can end up with Wilson but he has to be coy about it if he wants to maximize his draft position 

 

 

[kdels62]

1 hour ago, More Cowbell said:

Zach Wilson I definitely do not think should be the #2 pick this season. 

He has played subpar competition his one season we are judging him on. 

Has had multiple shoulder surgeries

Does not posses an NFL frame

Is short by NFL standards

Has never taken a big hit, at least not that I have seen

Fields a bit closer but I don't spend it on him either. 

In Fields case I don't see the amount of red flags I see with Wilson but I feel he isn't the second best O player we can take. I rather take Chase or Smith over Fields, even Sewell. I think they both are more rare type players than Fields. 

As far as TL, I am deferring to what all the people here and all the experts have said about him, how he has to be the top pick. Honestly I have a tough time seeing him as this once in a lifetime player from what I have seen. I think he benefitted greatly from the talent on Clemson but they guy has put up gawdy numbers.  

Okay so regarding Wilson.

He's had 1 surgery.

He's taller than 2 of the last 3 first overall picks at QB.

NFL frame means nothing no matter who repeats it. Big guys get hurt, small guys get hurt, there's no evidence to say what does and doesn't prosper ESPECIALLY at QB. 

He's taken plenty of big hits. He doesn't really protect his body well, that's a legitimate concern. 

Wilson and Fields are considered 2 of the top 5 best players in this draft. Smith is either WR 2/3 at this point and Chase hasn't played in over a year. Neither is going to test big, Chase will probably come up slow and Smith will come up small. There is nothing more rare than a good QB prospect. This year has 4 guys considered high 1st rounders which is considered a strong year. 

You cite experts on TL but ignore those experts putting WIlson and Fields in the top 5 of all of their drafts? 

[More Cowbell]

22 minutes ago, kdels62 said:

Okay so regarding Wilson.

He's had 1 surgery.

He's taller than 2 of the last 3 first overall picks at QB.

NFL frame means nothing no matter who repeats it. Big guys get hurt, small guys get hurt, there's no evidence to say what does and doesn't prosper ESPECIALLY at QB. 

He's taken plenty of big hits. He doesn't really protect his body well, that's a legitimate concern. 

Wilson and Fields are considered 2 of the top 5 best players in this draft. Smith is either WR 2/3 at this point and Chase hasn't played in over a year. Neither is going to test big, Chase will probably come up slow and Smith will come up small. There is nothing more rare than a good QB prospect. This year has 4 guys considered high 1st rounders which is considered a strong year. 

You cite experts on TL but ignore those experts putting WIlson and Fields in the top 5 of all of their drafts? 

I have not seen anyone say this Wilson is too 5 and I have just seen one former QB say Fields is. What I do hear is there are a lot of questions about both. You are also wrong about the surgeries.  Wilson had surgery on his shoulder and hand the same year.  As far as his frame, we aren't  talking g about 5 lbs light, he needs to pit on 20 lbs of muscle to be in the class size of NFL QB's. That is a huge amount of weight and I have my doubts he can do that with his frame. As far as short, Yeah, there are other QB's his height but that is not ideal. 6'3" is on the short side for a QB that has to see over OL a d DT who are much taller. I'm not saying he can't  compensate  but it isn't  what you really want. 

As far as Smith, Brett Farve who I think has aged with some pretty good receivers compared to Chase to Moss in a recent interview. Smith to me looks like he is playing with children on College. I believe he is going to be a the next super star WR. I also like Chase a lot. Enoigh of this BS we trot out at WR. 

Lastly, there are good QB's every draft. I am sure there will be two or 3 next year as well. It isn't  rare at all but there are drafts where no WR's are thought to be first round talent.

 

[BroadwayRay]

15 minutes ago, More Cowbell said:

I have not seen anyone say this Wilson is too 5 and I have just seen one former QB say Fields is.

PFF has Wilson as the #2 pick.

The Athletic's Dan Brugler has Wilson as the #2 pick.

Daniel Jeremiah has Wilson as the #2 pick.

Bleacher Report's Matt Miller has him as the #4 pick.

That's just off the top of my head.

As far as short, Yeah, there are other QB's his height but that is not ideal. 6'3" is on the short side for a QB that has to see over OL a d DT who are much taller. 

The "other quarterbacks" that are 6'-3" or less include Aaron Rodgers, Patrick Mahomes, Lamar Jackson, Dak Prescott, Drew Brees, Deshaun Watson, Russell Wilson and Kyler Murray -- namely, most of the top QBs in the league.

You're literally making sh*t up. If you are going to argue against the Jets picking Wilson, at least rely on facts.