Trading down at 23

[Joe W. Namath]

24 minutes ago, Morrissey said:

Has your head been buried in the sand for last 3 seasons?

No, Im just smart enough to realize that the crappy qb we had back there was a huge part of the line looking so bad.  Its no coincidence the line looked pretty good with flacco back there.

People here to not seem to realize how bad Sam Darnold is.

[Irish Jet]

1 hour ago, slats said:

When the Jets were unable to find starting OL help in free agency, they put themselves in a position where they absolutely need to find an upgrade in the draft. While I think Joe D really loved the idea of trading down from #2, and will keep his options open all the way down the line to add even more picks, I actually think a small trade up from #23 is more likely to secure that OL. Once he gets that player, he'll give a little sigh of relief, relax, and work the rest of the draft. 

With #2 all but locked in, his focus can now be on #23. I imagine he'll have some in principle trades set up with other teams to move in either direction depending on how the board unfolds. 

And no RBs! Lol. The Jets are just simply not in a position to take a non-premium position with a premium pick. The only non-premium position I'd consider would be TE, if only because I believe -unlike safety and RB- that the TE position is unfairly undervalued. If you're a 6'5", 260 lb. dude who can get open, catch the ball, and also block, you should be getting paid. I think guys like Gates and Gronk set the stage that Kelce and Kittle are enjoying now. And then you have Pitts who could be the highest drafted TE ever if Atlanta goes that route. I think the TE position is going to start seeing raises while the RB position remains stagnant. And so many WRs are creating a problem for them to get paid; more supply than demand. 

The problem with TE is it's always a top heavy position in the draft. There's a huge gap between the elite guys and the next tier, and the rest are pretty closely bunched together, we have one of the few genuinely awful groups in the league. I'm not sure there's any worth reaching for after Pitts. If Tremble falls to us or Jordan in the 2nd/3rd then maybe we'll get them but I can't see us trading up for them, at least I don't think we should.

Will be interesting to see how aggressive we are with the offensive lineman. I'd want us to double up early but I'm not convinced we will. I can see us getting one of the tackles who project to guard (Tucker/Jenkins) with an eye on them replacing Fant long term. Despite our need for quality starters I think you draft the lineman with the future in mind too. Maybe Douglas likes McGovern/GVR more than most but he should still be bringing in competition for them so we have options beyond this season. 

Running Back would be a catastrophe. Some never learn and still think it's 2005. 

 

 

[RVAJet815]

43 minutes ago, Joe W. Namath said:

Our offensive line issues are being waaaay blown out of proportion.  Do we need a stud on the right side to balance out becton?  Yes.

But this acting like we need an offensive line consisting of 5 first and second round picks is ridiculous.

 

I will agree in so far as that the fix isn't that hard...but not that the hysteria is unwarranted. JD must, and will, Pick up at least two IOL/OT in this draft. Given his background and that he was a tackle as a player, Im not worried there. But they absolutely need to protect their investment better than they did Sam.

[slats]

19 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Starting two rookies on the OL are far from an automatic upgrade over starting one rookie plus the better of 4 others, let alone such an upgrade that it overshadows the upgrade over a CB corps that's even more barren than that of our OL. You'd have to not only hit on both of them, but they both have to hit immediately as rookies for that to be an instant upgrade. Never mind Douglas seems to like the idea of building each position group in tiers so they don't all hit FA at the same time in the future. 

Despite the romance over every single high draft pick being instantly awesome as a rookie,

• Becton
• [#23 rookie]
• McGovern
• [#34 rookie]
• Fant

is not a slam dunk upgrade just for the 2021 season alone over

• Becton
• [competition winner among Lewis/GVR/Feeney/Clark/2021 day 3 pick]
• McGovern
• [#23 or #34 rookie]
• Fant

Never mind the latter scenario gets a 1st round talent influx to a CB corps that badly needs 23-34 pick upgrade. Good chance in JD's mind he got a steal with Hall last year (allegedly 1st round talent who slipped due to injury as a senior); then with a high pick this year he can then put two young, round-1 CB talents on the field, and get them for 3 more seasons on their cheap rookie contracts.

--

So again, prepare yourself for the 95% chance Douglas isn't going to going to jump at any/every opportunity to put 2 rookies in to block for his rookie QB. I'd be shocked if there's even that 5% chance of it happening. Particularly not after he's gone out of his way to see to it that he's got 3 veteran guards entering the draft (two of which have a season playing next to existing starters) on top of his mid-round pick from last year.

The only way it'd happen is if the draft falls just-so 2 out of 2 times, where the top OL pick on the board at 23 and then again at 34 are both such over the top value in terms of overall prospect ranking, and also that the trade down opportunities aren't that enticing.

We have a rather large contingent here who feel the Jets should only address the offense, and their more militant sub-group who believes that only the OL matters (see: the Sewell at #2 guys, lol). 

This is the way I think JD sees it, though, that he's looking for one rookie starting upgrade on the OL by pick #34, and that's pretty much it. If he hits the position again before #107, it'll be because the OL there represented the best value at the time. I do think he'll take at least two over the course of the draft, having another young guy in the development queue. 

[Sperm Edwards]

17 minutes ago, varjet said:

Looking at it another way, based on the existing roster and what JD was able to do before the draft:

• The Jets have signed  EDGE, WR, TE, S, RB to either build or fill in the gaps (more of the latter).
• The Jets are functional at T, C, TE (sort of), WR, RB, DI, EDGE, MLB (x2), S.
• The Jets are dysfunctional at G (x2), CB1, and OLB (x2).
• So I think 23 and 34 need to be G or CB.  Personally, I like the Creed (move McGovern to G) and Jenkins (have him play G) at 23 and BCBA at 34, but if Saleh loves Newsome, you can see him doing that at 23 and doing his best for G at 34. Round 3 could see TE, LB.  
• As we have seen, starting Gs have been had in rounds 3 and 4, more round 3.  
• There is a 2022 need to upgrade/replace C, T, RB, TE, S in addition to the above needs.  
• So, IMHO, 23, 34 and the third round picks need to clearly fill some of the needs listed above.  

Agree with most of this. I don't think he sees a 4-5 way competition at one guard slot (two of which would mean added continuity on the line) to be "dysfunctional" -- they were in the first half of 2020 when there were 4 of 5 new faces (which really makes them 5 new faces relative to each other) in to zone block. If they were all man-blocking it would have been less of a handicap to have all those new faces. Anyway I don't think they're any more "dysfunctional" at one guard position than they are at TE. I'd have preferred a FA upgrade, absolutely, but a 4-5 way competition among mostly experienced veterans should yield one functional starter for the season. They should draft another higher up just because of the higher certainty of starting right away at a high level. The other guard slot can be someone who grows into the position, or anyway reassess in Feb based on this season's performance.

Also McGovern is also a TBA in terms of need to upgrade/replace. Ditto Fant, as much as I'm still wtf on his contract, but you'd think he was the single worst RT in history the way people talk about him here. If these two look anything like they did in the first half of last year, yeah no doubt, but a zone blocking line needs continuity. Let's see if that helps them at all, and if the lack of continuity was just incidental & made it even worse.

Where you're exhibiting a more level head than many is realizing the obvious: starting guards can certainly be had outside the first 34 picks of the draft. I'm sure that's the norm, frankly. I'd like to see one by pick 34, but if they take another G/C/RT I'm not going to be apoplectic if it's not until day 3.

[Greensince69]

If someone special slips that the Jags need and we can trade the 23 for their 2nd first and 2nd second or even just for their 2 seconds we could take a creed, CB LB and maybe a frymouth if he slips. We can then use the 2 thirds for another OL and WR or RB and be very happy with the draft

[Cyberjet]

12 hours ago, Jets Things said:

Not with the picks in that mock you don't. No OL until third round even with the two proposed 2nds in the trade? Pass. 

I said You make that trade every day if you are a GM. The picks are up to the GM

[Curse of Namath]

11 hours ago, joewilly12 said:

https://nypost.com/2021/04/06/jets-nfl-mock-draft-trade-leads-to-haul-beyond-zach-wilson/

Brian Costello NY Post has us trading the #23 pick. 

We get a haul (hell) of a draft. 

* can someone copy and paste the article. 

This deal seems completely unrealistic and I don't know who Jacksonville would be so high on that they would give up two second round picks but if this is on the table you have to do it without hesitation.

Costello's picks are horrible though. With the additional picks you can go with a luxury pick like Najee Harris and Pat Friermuth and solidify the OLine. Get the T position filled so there are bookends moving forward, drafting a C allows McGovern to bump to a G spot so it upgrades two spots. The luxury of a stud RB and a traditional strong blocking and pass catching threat both help the young QB greatly. I am probably higher on Darden then most but think he is a perfect replacement for Crowder if not this year but next. In my mind the offense has been left alone too long and need to avoid another Sam situation. I do think CB is a need. 

[bitonti]

11 minutes ago, Curse of Namath said:

This deal seems completely unrealistic and I don't know who Jacksonville would be so high on that they would give up two second round picks but if this is on the table you have to do it without hesitation.

Costello's picks are horrible though. With the additional picks you can go with a luxury pick like Najee Harris and Pat Friermuth and solidify the OLine. Get the T position filled so there are bookends moving forward, drafting a C allows McGovern to bump to a G spot so it upgrades two spots. The luxury of a stud RB and a traditional strong blocking and pass catching threat both help the young QB greatly. I am probably higher on Darden then most but think he is a perfect replacement for Crowder if not this year but next. In my mind the offense has been left alone too long and need to avoid another Sam situation. I do think CB is a need. 

Becton + Jenkins could be an interesting bookends but he's not an especially rare athlete. like OT 5 or OT 6 in this class 

Dickerson is super hurt 

the Jets show no appetite for moving McGovern fwiw 

[Greensleeves]

14 hours ago, Joe W. Namath said:

Would be very interesting if najae harris is sitting there at 23.  The biggest thing this offense is missing is a stud rb.  It would tremendously help Zach to be able to turn around and hand it to a back like that 20 times a game.

Then get oline at pick 34.  Then grab best reciever on board at beginning of 3rd round.

Then a corner at end of round 3.

Definitely intriguing - I wouldn't mind grabbing one of the North Carolina RBs in the 3rd, so after QB grab OL, OL(center) and corner. I really don't think corner needs to be picked before OL - we have some good young corners. I hope we just sign a vet soon. I would grab another PR before corner - but would still prefer offense in the first 3 picks to solidify that side of the ball. We are getting back Mosely, added Lawson and some solid depth on D. 

[Sam_S]

22 hours ago, SR24 said:

if Tevin Jenkins is there at 23 we gotta take him 

this

[slimjasi]

Again, I personally don't see a need to trade down. We have plenty of picks. What we need are some damn blue-chip players not named Quinnen or Mekhi. 

[Joe W. Namath]

That draft by costello would be an absolute dream.  We get a qb, oline, rb, te, center, wr etc.

An absolute homerun of a draft.

[Alka]

11 hours ago, Curse of Namath said:

This deal seems completely unrealistic and I don't know who Jacksonville would be so high on that they would give up two second round picks but if this is on the table you have to do it without hesitation.

Costello's picks are horrible though. With the additional picks you can go with a luxury pick like Najee Harris and Pat Friermuth and solidify the OLine. Get the T position filled so there are bookends moving forward, drafting a C allows McGovern to bump to a G spot so it upgrades two spots. The luxury of a stud RB and a traditional strong blocking and pass catching threat both help the young QB greatly. I am probably higher on Darden then most but think he is a perfect replacement for Crowder if not this year but next. In my mind the offense has been left alone too long and need to avoid another Sam situation. I do think CB is a need. 

The reason this is stupid, is that JD would make that trade without getting the 45th pick.

If the Jaguars wanted to move up 2 spots to #23, giving the Jets #25 and #33 would be very nice compensation.  Why would the Jags also give up #45, when I believe JD would do the deal without it.

And if JD insisted on an additional pick to go along with #33, I'm sure he would take a 5th round pick instead of #45.  Just dumb.

[MichaelScott]

On 4/6/2021 at 9:49 PM, joewilly12 said:

https://nypost.com/2021/04/06/jets-nfl-mock-draft-trade-leads-to-haul-beyond-zach-wilson/

Brian Costello NY Post has us trading the #23 pick. 

We get a haul (hell) of a draft. 

* can someone copy and paste the article. 

If those were JD's picks this place would meltdown. The trade was fantastic, additional 2nd round picks to move back 2 spots would amazing. The players/positions selected in this mock, not so much. 

[MichaelScott]

On 4/6/2021 at 9:59 PM, GreekJet said:

I actually think a trade up is more likely. The Jets have the pieces to do so. 

Pieces to do so doesn't mean it'll happen. JD doesn't trade picks, he collects them.

[Barry McCockinner]

On 4/6/2021 at 10:36 PM, Morrissey said:

Emmit Smith isn't helping Zach Wilson with this OL. It's INSANE for Jets to draft a RB without fixing the clearest flaw the team has. You don't buy flat screen TV without a house to put it in.

Emmit Smith played much of his career behind a great OL.