Prospects 2022 and random college ball talk.

[Chrebetfan80]

LB, EDGE, WR, RT/RG/C, TE and S are all big time needs coming into this draft.  So many spots its becoming even more evident JD needs to trade back with one of the 1st rounders to load up another 2nd or 3rd for this draft. 

Biggest thing I will be focusing on this draft will be speed.  The team has none, needs a ton of it, and it will make a huge difference going forward. 

[kdels62]

2 OTs that I saw PFF was high on so I took a gander.

Kellen Diesch, Arizona State- Slow, upright, lacked anchor and reps in true pass sets. Strong hands and good vertical movement even though he has big torso. Vertical pass sets basically don’t exist and not much depth on his movements. I’d say he’s a 5th rounder who might end up moving to guard. I don’t love him.

Bernhard Raimann, Central Michigan - He doesn’t hit the second level well, it’s like he gets confused that far away from the line of scrimmage. High pad guy but he is actually good. Strong, good anchor, really good hand usage and quick enough feet. I was super impressed with his recognition on stunts and his ability to get to the spot in terms of depth and assignment. I’d give him a second round grade with the ability to play tackle in the NFL. Honestly, he could be a steal if his pedigree leaves him waiting until round 3 to hear his name called.

[Jimmy 2 Times]

@kdels62

Have you taken a deep dive on Charles Cross?

I hear he's a good fit for our zone scheme. 

[Lith]

On 11/14/2021 at 3:21 PM, kdels62 said:

So… Linderbaum and Hamilton in round 1 

Nakobe Dean with Jet 2 

Jermaine Johnson with Carolina 2

 

This would work.  Not sexy, but these are the type of athletes we desperately need right now.

[derp]

1 hour ago, Jimmy 2 Times said:

@kdels62

Have you taken a deep dive on Charles Cross?

I hear he's a good fit for our zone scheme. 

I’m curious on a cross deep dive as well. Neal kind of makes sense if they want to do the same thing as Becton at tackle but doing something different is more interesting to me. No idea if it’d be in the table.

[kdels62]

49 minutes ago, Jimmy 2 Times said:

@kdels62

Have you taken a deep dive on Charles Cross?

I hear he's a good fit for our zone scheme. 

Yes. He’s awesome. I think he’s the best tackle in the draft even over Evan Neal. He’s a top 10 pick, he’ll go there especially since his testing is gonna be elite. 

[kdels62]

29 minutes ago, derp said:

I’m curious on a cross deep dive as well. Neal kind of makes sense if they want to do the same thing as Becton at tackle but doing something different is more interesting to me. No idea if it’d be in the table.

I have more thoughts on Cross but this is the crux of my opinion. Neal is big, Neal is athletic and Neal has tools but Cross is a little smaller, just as athletic, and capable of dominating in the pass game with skill and physicality. Neal is Sewell/ Becton while Cross is Wirfs/ Wills/ Slater. All of this is overly simplified but that’s the general idea.

Cross is so good in the running game but he’s on a offense that never runs the ball. Cross isn’t great at the second level, but he’ll figure that out unless he just has a broken internal compass. His pass sets are so good and he beats SEC defenders to the spot even when he looks like he shouldn’t. He gave up a sack against DeMarvin Leal but the QB held the ball for almost 5 seconds. Cross has an insane anchor that he engages quickly even if he loses the initial battle (he rarely loses the initial battle). His strength is obvious with his punch and one play he reached out to a player that tried to catch him on a stunt and he stonewalled him with 1 outstretched arm. Sometimes Cross oversets but he’s athletic enough to recover on the inside, he has to be careful since it is unnecessary for him to make his move too early. 

He’s got the goods.

[derp]

9 minutes ago, kdels62 said:

I have more thoughts on Cross but this is the crux of my opinion. Neal is big, Neal is athletic and Neal has tools but Cross is a little smaller, just as athletic, and capable of dominating in the pass game with skill and physicality. Neal is Sewell/ Becton while Cross is Wirfs/ Wills/ Slater. All of this is overly simplified but that’s the general idea.

Cross is so good in the running game but he’s on a offense that never runs the ball. Cross isn’t great at the second level, but he’ll figure that out unless he just has a broken internal compass. His pass sets are so good and he beats SEC defenders to the spot even when he looks like he shouldn’t. He gave up a sack against DeMarvin Leal but the QB held the ball for almost 5 seconds. Cross has an insane anchor that he engages quickly even if he loses the initial battle (he rarely loses the initial battle). His strength is obvious with his punch and one play he reached out to a player that tried to catch him on a stunt and he stonewalled him with 1 outstretched arm. Sometimes Cross oversets but he’s athletic enough to recover on the inside, he has to be careful since it is unnecessary for him to make his move too early. 

He’s got the goods.

Great, great stuff. That was the sense I got without going deep but with much more detail and it’s nice to get confirmation. Honestly I think that’s the kind of tackle the Jets should be trying to add. I could see them not thinking it’s something that should be addressed as high as he’s going to go but I’d be excited about them adding Cross.

Unrelated, I’m kind of thinking first round wide receiver may be in play. That’s where the meat of this receiver class seems to be. I’d be fine with focusing elsewhere and grabbing whoever falls to day two as well and that has been Douglas’ MO. And maybe they just completely ignore it or do it late but that’s a position that stands out as not being one it seems like they can easily wait on.

[Chrebetfan80]

15 hours ago, derp said:

Great, great stuff. That was the sense I got without going deep but with much more detail and it’s nice to get confirmation. Honestly I think that’s the kind of tackle the Jets should be trying to add. I could see them not thinking it’s something that should be addressed as high as he’s going to go but I’d be excited about them adding Cross.

Unrelated, I’m kind of thinking first round wide receiver may be in play. That’s where the meat of this receiver class seems to be. I’d be fine with focusing elsewhere and grabbing whoever falls to day two as well and that has been Douglas’ MO. And maybe they just completely ignore it or do it late but that’s a position that stands out as not being one it seems like they can easily wait on.

Great stuff by @kdels62 on cross, gives JD some flexiblity options in the top 10 Being able to consider Thibs, Linderbaum, Neal, Cross, and Hamilton.  All will prob go top 10.  Maybe Karlaftis as well although idk

I like the idea of going for WR early because there some really good talent, but its really going to be how the board falls.  I think looking at the top 10-15 there may only be 1 WR worthy of that range.  Seems like Talent wise this draft will have a good deal of back end defenders in that range, some Edge, and OL.   If i had to guess, we're a trenches driven team in the first round and JD goes Edge/OL if he stays, otherwise one of the two and trading down which opens up any possibility.  

 

[kdels62]

8 minutes ago, Chrebetfan80 said:

Great stuff by @kdels62 on cross, gives JD some flexiblity options in the top 10 Being able to consider Thibs, Linderbaum, Neal, Cross, and Hamilton.  All will prob go top 10.  Maybe Karlaftis as well although idk

I like the idea of going for WR early because there some really good talent, but its really going to be how the board falls.  I think looking at the top 10-15 there may only be 1 WR worthy of that range.  Seems like Talent wise this draft will have a good deal of back end defenders in that range, some Edge, and OL.   If i had to guess, we're a trenches driven team in the first round and JD goes Edge/OL if he stays, otherwise one of the two and trading down which opens up any possibility.  

 

I’ve been on the WR thing as well. I have a huge crush on Drake London but he doesn’t necessarily fill the “speed creates pressure, pressure bursts pipes” mantra. It wouldn’t surprise me if we start to hear that JD has it hard for Garrett Wilson prior to the draft.

[Chrebetfan80]

23 minutes ago, kdels62 said:

I’ve been on the WR thing as well. I have a huge crush on Drake London but he doesn’t necessarily fill the “speed creates pressure, pressure bursts pipes” mantra. It wouldn’t surprise me if we start to hear that JD has it hard for Garrett Wilson prior to the draft.

I like drake london a lot, he's got experience inside and outside at USC has a little something after the catch, good reliable hands, goes up well for the ball.  But speed is what this team needs, i dont think he's got it.  I view him and Bell as similar players honestly. I like both but with davis you have that tall slower guy who can work over the middle, Maybe you add one more but I think Mims has to be given more of a chance to fill that role too, and he's got good straight line speed.   Edit:  I also think you can add a guy similar to those dudes in FA in Sutton this offseason.  He hastn had the year the broncos were hoping for and with their depth at WR he may be the odd man out.  I think he'd fill that role nicely and not have to use a pick on someone to be that go up and get it guy. 

If we're being honest, I have a hard on for Wilson right now lol His releases this year have been super clean, really great footwork on routes, catchng the ball with his hands so well. You may have to go back to 2020 to get the same vibes im getting but i get big time Robert Woods vibes from Garret Wilson.  You may want a guy with a little more height than 6'0 but man the kid can play.  I was a very big Olave fan coming into the year, and by the time the seasons over Wilson will prob be my fav OSU WR.  I really think he's extremely good. 

[kdels62]

On the topic of WRs, I heard recently that the Jets should look at Wan’Dale Robinson from Kentucky because he’s pair well with Elijah Moore. In my head I thought it was weird since I thought Robinson was a small gadget guy and why would we lie that with Moore. So I checked him out a bit. 

He is the small gadget guy, the podcast I listened to was dumb. Wan’Dale Robinson is like a Elijah Moore minus the dynamic route running and in traffic catch ability. He’s not super fast but definitely intriguing and he executes end around a really well. Great YAC ability but he’s slight and he might lose some of that YAC in the pros. The Jets shouldn’t consider him but he could land in the second round to a team needing a dynamic slot guy.

[maury77]

Are there any new owners available in the draft?

[TheMo]

1 hour ago, maury77 said:

Are there any new owners available in the draft?

I am available. I'm low on cash but I have a lot of grit and the it factor. I am a leader of men. Also don't mind my lack of competition, good ownership is the same regardless of huge corporations vs tiny business. 

[Chrebetfan80]

23 hours ago, kdels62 said:

On the topic of WRs, I heard recently that the Jets should look at Wan’Dale Robinson from Kentucky because he’s pair well with Elijah Moore. In my head I thought it was weird since I thought Robinson was a small gadget guy and why would we lie that with Moore. So I checked him out a bit. 

He is the small gadget guy, the podcast I listened to was dumb. Wan’Dale Robinson is like a Elijah Moore minus the dynamic route running and in traffic catch ability. He’s not super fast but definitely intriguing and he executes end around a really well. Great YAC ability but he’s slight and he might lose some of that YAC in the pros. The Jets shouldn’t consider him but he could land in the second round to a team needing a dynamic slot guy.

there are two smaller WR's right now that i would consider pairing with moore.  Thats Wilson and Dotson.  Outside of that, im looking for tall speedsters to go up and get it.  Thats where I am in the evaluation process so far, but those are the only two guys I really like on the smaller side for this offense.  

My Wilson love is growing by the day. 

[kdels62]

1 hour ago, Chrebetfan80 said:

there are two smaller WR's right now that i would consider pairing with moore.  Thats Wilson and Dotson.  Outside of that, im looking for tall speedsters to go up and get it.  Thats where I am in the evaluation process so far, but those are the only two guys I really like on the smaller side for this offense.  

My Wilson love is growing by the day. 

I think the combination of 2 second round picks and the Corey Davis contracts will move asset management away from first round WR. I’ve come along on Wilson who just seems to have easy movement.  I still have Drake London as WR1 tho since big dudes like him generally don’t have his route running and YAC prowess.

[BCJet]

4 hours ago, kdels62 said:

I think the combination of 2 second round picks and the Corey Davis contracts will move asset management away from first round WR. I’ve come along on Wilson who just seems to have easy movement.  I still have Drake London as WR1 tho since big dudes like him generally don’t have his route running and YAC prowess.

I’m a bit biased towards these BC kids but if we want a WR in the second round Zay Flowers is gonna be an excellent value due to his size (5’10 180) and numbers this season which are a direct result of our QB being hurt half the year 

I’m sure there will be an argument about having 2 shorter WRs but Moore really is an excellent outside WR and Zay has elite level speed and the ability to run jet sweeps etc. 

Personally I don’t think WR is a need, but if we do go there in round 2, this kid would really add more speed to the offense 

[kdels62]

DJ Bien-Aime has been tweeting his belief that the team needs playmakers especially on the defensive side of the ball. I don’t think he’s wrong. His focus however seems to be at the top of the draft with Derek Stingley. 

I don’t love the idea of Stingley for two reasons. 

1) CB group isn’t so weak that it needs a top 10 pick type of integration. Hall is a legit starter and MC2 is a legit starter. That’s 2/3 starting CB spots. Echols, Pinnock and Revis (I mean Dunn) have all flashed and with a year of improvement will be starting level players. Is that great? No but it functions and it allows the rest of the team to be built up around it. 

2) Stingley is a flawed prospect. The guy has had serious injuries and hasn’t reached the level of excellence his freshman year promised. Looking at tape from 3 season ago isn’t as helpful as recent tape and his recent tape is uneven and limited. He has the tools but spending a top 10 pick on a guy who’s best performance came before multiple injuries and surgeries isn’t a risk worth taking. Also Ahmad Gardner is better. 

[derp]

Stingley is being ranked like he would be if he'd played at the level of his freshman year for the last couple seasons and not had injury concerns. I don't quite get it. Usually when there's a disconnect at that level the guy "falls" a little through the process. Just doesn't make sense where he's being discussed - at least not to me.

[sec101row23]

51 minutes ago, kdels62 said:

DJ Bien-Aime has been tweeting his belief that the team needs playmakers especially on the defensive side of the ball. I don’t think he’s wrong. His focus however seems to be at the top of the draft with Derek Stingley. 

I don’t love the idea of Stingley for two reasons. 

1) CB group isn’t so weak that it needs a top 10 pick type of integration. Hall is a legit starter and MC2 is a legit starter. That’s 2/3 starting CB spots. Echols, Pinnock and Revis (I mean Dunn) have all flashed and with a year of improvement will be starting level players. Is that great? No but it functions and it allows the rest of the team to be built up around it. 

2) Stingley is a flawed prospect. The guy has had serious injuries and hasn’t reached the level of excellence his freshman year promised. Looking at tape from 3 season ago isn’t as helpful as recent tape and his recent tape is uneven and limited. He has the tools but spending a top 10 pick on a guy who’s best performance came before multiple injuries and surgeries isn’t a risk worth taking. Also Ahmad Gardner is better. 

Honestly, drafting Hamilton over Stingley would be a better fit for the Jets IMO.   There’s a bigger need at safety than CB, and like you said Stingley isn’t a clean enough prospect to take that high.  I’m still feeling like it’s going to be Edge with the Jets first pick though.  

[Jets Voice of Reason]

It's like every year there is a guy that just gets penciled into a top pick and no one digs further to poke holes at it. Stingley is hugely risky, plus I think like everyone is mentioning, taking high corners is not really the m.o. of this system. In this draft it feels like to me like center and linebacker especially fall off hard in this draft after the top tier group.

[kdels62]

14 minutes ago, Jets Voice of Reason said:

It's like every year there is a guy that just gets penciled into a top pick and no one digs further to poke holes at it. Stingley is hugely risky, plus I think like everyone is mentioning, taking high corners is not really the m.o. of this system. In this draft it feels like to me like center and linebacker especially fall off hard in this draft after the top tier group.

I’ve actually come around on Jarrett Patterson as a consolation prize. Same kinda vibes as Eichenberg last year, in that he’s just a steady dude with ability but not much room to become elite. He shouldn’t sniff round 2 but at round 3 and 4 he’s possibly a day 1 starter with a short learning curve into league average. I would absolutely prefer the clear all pro for most of the next 10 year though. 

[kdels62]

19 minutes ago, Jets Voice of Reason said:

It's like every year there is a guy that just gets penciled into a top pick and no one digs further to poke holes at it. Stingley is hugely risky, plus I think like everyone is mentioning, taking high corners is not really the m.o. of this system. In this draft it feels like to me like center and linebacker especially fall off hard in this draft after the top tier group.

Like the “elite” DT with good but not great measurables that only started for 1 year and was always nursing some injury in that 1 year he started?

I love Quinnen, I think this board underrates him but his evaluation was so intellectually dishonest.

[Chrebetfan80]

1 hour ago, sec101row23 said:

Honestly, drafting Hamilton over Stingley would be a better fit for the Jets IMO.   There’s a bigger need at safety than CB, and like you said Stingley isn’t a clean enough prospect to take that high.  I’m still feeling like it’s going to be Edge with the Jets first pick though.  

Everyone is hitting the nail on the head,  I would be really disappointed if the pick was Stingley,  I cant figure out why he has stayed so high through this process without being out. 

Hamilton is the only back end player im taking in the top 10.  Plain and simple, and I have ptsd from taking safeties top 10.  He makes a lot of sense for this team especially when you realize both projected starters at S are UFA this year. While I really want Linderbaum, the case could be made for trying to snag a combo of DE and S in the top 12 or so if thats where we are.  So if you ended up with Hamilton and Karlaftis coudl we really be angry?

[Jets Voice of Reason]

40 minutes ago, Chrebetfan80 said:

Everyone is hitting the nail on the head,  I would be really disappointed if the pick was Stingley,  I cant figure out why he has stayed so high through this process without being out. 

Hamilton is the only back end player im taking in the top 10.  Plain and simple, and I have ptsd from taking safeties top 10.  He makes a lot of sense for this team especially when you realize both projected starters at S are UFA this year. While I really want Linderbaum, the case could be made for trying to snag a combo of DE and S in the top 12 or so if thats where we are.  So if you ended up with Hamilton and Karlaftis coudl we really be angry?

I like what you've said elsewhere. Our team badly needs more athleticism and top-end players more than anything. JD has done a good job building the roster depth, but we just lack the difference makers to really compete defensively.

[Jets Voice of Reason]

2 hours ago, kdels62 said:

I’ve actually come around on Jarrett Patterson as a consolation prize. Same kinda vibes as Eichenberg last year, in that he’s just a steady dude with ability but not much room to become elite. He shouldn’t sniff round 2 but at round 3 and 4 he’s possibly a day 1 starter with a short learning curve into league average. I would absolutely prefer the clear all pro for most of the next 10 year though. 

Good input, thanks. I think he's a fit for our scheme with his mobility, but to your point I don't think he really moves the needle as much as Linderbaum who just mauls people and it's evident that he does that consistently.

That being said, my hopes being on him make me feel like it's not going to end up happening so I feel like I need to temper my expectations. JD's drafts show they value the testing numbers a lot and last year was about picking up scheme fits, but outside of that, I have a hard time predicting which direction they are going to go.

[Chrebetfan80]

1 hour ago, Jets Voice of Reason said:

I like what you've said elsewhere. Our team badly needs more athleticism and top-end players more than anything. JD has done a good job building the roster depth, but we just lack the difference makers to really compete defensively.

Yea which is why, even though I would want to trade down, I could see JD staying put in the top 15 in order to get a difference making player, or even trading up back into the top 10 for one if they liked them enough.  

JD has shown he will be aggressive moving around the draft board, either trading up or back, so really anything is in play. 

 

The easiest way to narrow this all down I believe is look at what JD and Saleh value trait wise and skill wise, look at the mocks, see where guys are slated to go that fit that bill and w'ell have a good sense of who may be on the radar.  For me I think as of right now the guys im focusing on the most are Linderbaum, Neal, Thibs, Hamilton as sure fire guys I think JD would love to draft in that first 10 picks. 

After that it gets kind of harder to predict.  It's also going to be interesting to see if there will be a lot of trading done since there are not really big time prospects n this draft. 

 

[Chrebetfan80]

Also speaking of swings, Mocks have cooled on karlaftis a little mocking him further down, and aiden hutchenson is now the bell of the ball.. I've seen him mocked as high as 2nd overall

[Paradis]

Free Agency is still on the horizon, but i don't see how those top 2 picks windup as anything but immediate support at DE/PR, and Oline... We don't own the LOS enough and need dictate more physically what's happening up there... 

Add in that there's no Kyle Pitts, or J. Chase or Cmac in this draft (I wouldn't be surprised if we don't see any taken until the 20s) and it seems all but likely that you'll hear a combo of Thibo/Hutchinson and Linderbaum/Neal... I guess Hamilton is a possibility, but can't say i've watched him enough. 

Round 2 is going be LBs/CBs and TEs depending on FA spending.. that's what the tea leaves are saying. Lot of meat in that 30-50 area.

[Chrebetfan80]

9 minutes ago, Paradis said:

Free Agency is still on the horizon, but i don't see how those top 2 picks windup as anything but immediate support at DE/PR, and Oline... We don't own the LOS enough and need dictate more physically what's happening up there... 

Add in that there's no Kyle Pitts, or J. Chase or Cmac in this draft (I wouldn't be surprised if we don't see any taken until the 20s) and it seems all but likely that you'll hear a combo of Thibo/Hutchinson and Linderbaum/Neal... I guess Hamilton is a possibility, but can't say i've watched him enough. 

Round 2 is going be LBs/CBs and TEs depending on FA spending.. that's what the tea leaves are saying. Lot of meat in that 30-50 area.

agreed big time on this.   

Hamilton is in the mix because of his versatility, i could see saleh and ulbrich loving the ability to play him at Free, Strong, and even Will in certain scenarios.  He can cover in the slot as well if needed.  Really good player, rangy as hell, great ball skills.  The more I think about it the more I could see his name being called from a fit perspective.  However, we have seen what JD thinks about safeties and their market, I do not know if i see him using a top 10 pick on one, even though Hamilton is such a different type of player. 

Most realistic combos are the ones you talked about if we stay put where we are.  I think if Seattles pick is later than 12 thats when you may see a change up and a trade down a few spots to get an extra 3rd.  The talent pool really levels out outside of the top say 6 picks I think. 

 

[sec101row23]

Pretty crazy stat if it’s accurate.  
 

 

 

[Jets Voice of Reason]

1 hour ago, Chrebetfan80 said:

Also speaking of swings, Mocks have cooled on karlaftis a little mocking him further down, and aiden hutchenson is now the bell of the ball.. I've seen him mocked as high as 2nd overall

Hopefully no one skips any testing this go-around and we have a combine because they all look the part athletically to me at least but it's easier to rank-stack after they test. Hutchinson has been dominating and Ojabo I see rising boards as well.

[Jets Voice of Reason]

48 minutes ago, Chrebetfan80 said:

agreed big time on this.   

Hamilton is in the mix because of his versatility, i could see saleh and ulbrich loving the ability to play him at Free, Strong, and even Will in certain scenarios.  He can cover in the slot as well if needed.  Really good player, rangy as hell, great ball skills.  The more I think about it the more I could see his name being called from a fit perspective.  However, we have seen what JD thinks about safeties and their market, I do not know if i see him using a top 10 pick on one, even though Hamilton is such a different type of player. 

Most realistic combos are the ones you talked about if we stay put where we are.  I think if Seattles pick is later than 12 thats when you may see a change up and a trade down a few spots to get an extra 3rd.  The talent pool really levels out outside of the top say 6 picks I think. 

 

I still can't get over how bad we are at generating turnovers. And it's not even from a lack of trying to strip the ball, the guys are clearly coached up in doing that, it's just such a lack of speed and ball skills on the back end.

[Columbia Jet Fan]

Pretty unbelievable after all the hype about how teams last year were more interested in trading for future picks because this draft class was going to be loaded due to people taking an extra year b/c of the funky covid season, this class seems pretty weak to me. 

Tibbs is clear #1 pick and I don't even view him as a Myles Garret/Chase Young level prospect. You have some DE/OT blue chip talent which is good - but other than that it seems like the other blue chippers are a center, a safety, and a CB who has barely played the last two years. 

Right now I'm hopeful the Jets will be able to get one of the top OTs or DEs. However, I wouldn't mind trading back and trying to get another second rounder. Problem is like 2019 if people don't see a franchise QB the trade market becomes pretty bleh. 

Hope I'm wrong - but pretty uninspired by this class. 

 

[Bronxville Jets Fan]

On 11/19/2021 at 2:19 PM, sec101row23 said:

Pretty crazy stat if it’s accurate.  
 

 

 

Ugh.  I’m getting less and less optimistic that he’ll be in play with Seattle’s pick.