Zach needs to get the ball out quicker

[dbatesman]

37 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

Not sure the point stands.  
I should say I’m not sure what the point is. 
this data shows nothing other than

1) His completion % goes up when he gets the ball is out faster

2) His yards per completion sky rocket when he holds the ball longer.  

 

The point is that more good things happen when he gets the ball out faster, and that more bad things happen when he holds it longer, and the reasons for that are complex and multifarious. 

[FidelioJet]

Just now, dbatesman said:

The point is that more good things happen when he gets the ball out faster, and that more bad things happen when he holds it longer, and the reasons for that are complex and multifarious. 

Except that data isn’t showing that.  

The point your making is mostly correct but that’s not what the data says. 

more yards per attempt and far more yards per completion came from holding the ball longer. 

[section314]

2 minutes ago, JiFapono said:

100%.  That's all I'm saying.  A 3 step drop back, turns into a 6 step drop back or his body is aimed at a seam route when he's throwing to the sidelines, which in turn impacts the entire play; OL's ability to hold blocks, WR's ability to make the play and Zach's ability to deliver an accurate pass.

I'm not bashing Zach.  I'm actually bashing the coaching staff.  This has always been part of his game, who's coaching it out of him?  I'm pointing out these flaws that you regularly see because when you combine them with the rest of the offensive woes, it all becomes symptomatic of each other.  Zach cant execute plays, the OL cant execute blocks, the OC has to adjust the play calling, etc. etc. etc.  Zach averaged 4.6 ypc last game, that to me indicates, they're trying to dumb this thing down and make it easier and some of the play designs would support that attempt the problem is, they all just suck right now.  All of them.

 

Very true, and with the youngest team in the league, and rookie HC , OC and DC, it will get worse before it gets better. Last 6-7 games is where it should look better and,, if it happens sooner, a bonus. Growing pains are tough.

[rangerous]

From Jet X site.  if wilson takes 3 seconds to throw and his line holds for 2 seconds then there's a problem.

"Wilson often holds the ball much too long. He has averaged 3.0 seconds from snap-to-throw this season, ranking fifth-highest out of 35 quarterbacks.

On average, Wilson’s sacks have occurred 3.79 seconds after the snap. That ranks sixth-highest, suggesting that many of his 15 sacks were avoidable."

 

[ZachEY]

6 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Do you go to a book of cliches and just spew it here?  Hard to find a top college QB who didnt play more hero ball or whatever shlt we're calling it today.  The idea that all Wilson did was throw balls up without regard and his WRs made plays on it is total nonsense.  Makes you wonder why none of those WRs pulling long passes in on jump balls arent in the NFL lighting things up.  There were no enormous flaws that people other than those who didnt want Wilson saw.  Bet none of the 1,000 or so Jets fans who claim they wanted Mahomes, had him as their #1 pick were bitching at mechanics described by KC staff as the worst they ever saw.  

Of course its footwork, the new buzzword for fans. I watch Rodgers throw off his back foot all the time.  Same with Mahomes, Allen, Jackson etc.  When you complete passes and are on a good offense this issues dont count.  Offense sucks and all the internet QB whisperers provide reasons.  Has it ever occurred to you that youre the only one complaining about his mechanics, footwork at BYU and why that might be?

But hey, we could have had Fields and he totally sucks, has in every single game or preseason game hes appeared in.  Every single 1st round QB is struggling.  

I'm struggling to see how anyone could take the position that Wilson's fundamentals aren't a mess.

Wasn't that the idea before we drafted him?  That he's got a ton of talent, but there's a lot of work to be done?

Wilson, in my view, was the right pick at #2.  But, I'm disappointed that in the draft we were picking #2, that this type of player was the best available option.  Mac Jones with an NFL arm would have been nice.

[More Cowbell]

1 hour ago, Maxman said:

Zach's pocket presence needs work but I don't put that all on him. He isn't confident back there even when he has a clean pocket. Getting pounded a few weeks in a row will do that to you.

Kind of the same story under Gase with Darnold, why they aren't doing more rollouts I just don't know. Call some set one read plays for high % passes at the line of scrimmage to build momentum.

What I would like to see is the Jets use Barrios and Moore the same way the Pats used Edelman. Send them on quick hitting patterns 5 yards from the LOS and let them try to break a tackle. I know Edelman and Welker before him had exceptional quickness but this short pass game is what Zack needs to do now. 

[Charlie Brown]

1 hour ago, Maxman said:

Zach's pocket presence needs work but I don't put that all on him. He isn't confident back there even when he has a clean pocket. Getting pounded a few weeks in a row will do that to you.

Kind of the same story under Gase with Darnold, why they aren't doing more rollouts I just don't know. Call some set one read plays for high % passes at the line of scrimmage to build momentum.

We will end up with Darnold Part II if the Jets don't get it right...

Think Darnold was pounded like this for 3 years!!!

Folks already turning on Zach....  

Lets Go Jets! 

[k-met57]

1 hour ago, Maxman said:

Zach's pocket presence needs work but I don't put that all on him. He isn't confident back there even when he has a clean pocket. Getting pounded a few weeks in a row will do that to you.

Kind of the same story under Gase with Darnold, why they aren't doing more rollouts I just don't know. Call some set one read plays for high % passes at the line of scrimmage to build momentum.

exactly right. this is what people talk about when they talk about "ruining QBs". he has no confidence in receives, he is constantly thinking he is going to get hit, so its only natural he is not going to play free and loose. lets hope its not too late by the time jets figure something out.

[Bronx]

42 minutes ago, Jets Voice of Reason said:

A whole bunch of you are conflating time to pass with the mechanics problem JiF and I are talking about. Even on plays that Zach has enough time to throw, he's not stepping into the throw or having his front foot pointed in the direction of the receiver. I feel like you really notice it on some of his throw to flats, but that's just anecdotal.

Obviously, OL is a massive problem and he's getting pressured way too much for anyone to succeed, but he's still contributing towards the problem.

Was this issue present during his pre-draft workouts? Geez, did anybody noticed? Unreal.

[All Gas, No Gase]

After the first drive LaFleur’s play calling went away from quick passes. Of all the problems on offense, LaFleur’s playing calling is the worse issue. Improve the play calling, a lot of the other problems are at least diminished. 

 

[JohnnyLV]

16 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Do you go to a book of cliches and just spew it here?  Hard to find a top college QB who didnt play more hero ball or whatever shlt we're calling it today.  The idea that all Wilson did was throw balls up without regard and his WRs made plays on it is total nonsense.  Makes you wonder why none of those WRs pulling long passes in on jump balls arent in the NFL lighting things up.  There were no enormous flaws that people other than those who didnt want Wilson saw.  Bet none of the 1,000 or so Jets fans who claim they wanted Mahomes, had him as their #1 pick were bitching at mechanics described by KC staff as the worst they ever saw.  

Of course its footwork, the new buzzword for fans. I watch Rodgers throw off his back foot all the time.  Same with Mahomes, Allen, Jackson etc.  When you complete passes and are on a good offense this issues dont count.  Offense sucks and all the internet QB whisperers provide reasons.  Has it ever occurred to you that youre the only one complaining about his mechanics, footwork at BYU and why that might be?

But hey, we could have had Fields and he totally sucks, has in every single game or preseason game hes appeared in.  Every single 1st round QB is struggling.  

One of my favorite posts on JN in a while. Great dose of reality.

[dbatesman]

17 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

Except that data isn’t showing that.  

The point your making is mostly correct but that’s not what the data says. 

more yards per attempt and far more yards per completion came from holding the ball longer. 

So did a 30-point drop in completion percentage and literally all of his interceptions

[Gastineau Lives]

8 minutes ago, Charlie Brown said:

We will end up with Darnold Part II if the Jets don't get it right...

Think Darnold was pounded like this for 3 years!!!

Folks already turning on Zach....  

Lets Go Jets! 

No, Darnold was pounded like this in the Patriots game in 2019. This season has been three of those so far.

[More Cowbell]

9 minutes ago, Charlie Brown said:

We will end up with Darnold Part II if the Jets don't get it right...

Think Darnold was pounded like this for 3 years!!!

Folks already turning on Zach....  

Lets Go Jets! 

It's  not all Zacks fault but he has made a slew of bad throws over the past two weeks.  

[FidelioJet]

38 minutes ago, section314 said:

I am far from a QB coach, but that is extremely noticeable. Very obvious on the first drive on the 3rd and 6 to Moore, which he almost bounced to him. Was an easy throw. 

But look at him in Week 1.
He was surely stepping into his throws. His footwork was pretty strong, much better than it’s been the past two weeks.  He was accurate and looked mostly good  

What that says about ZW I, not sure, but this whole idea that somehow he’s incapable of it or it was a bad prospect or they weren’t trying to teach him. Etc. that’s all a load of BS. 
The reality is he got the sh*t kicked out of him and is now playing timid.  
 

[More Cowbell]

8 minutes ago, Bronx said:

Was this issue present during his pre-draft workouts? Geez, did anybody noticed? Unreal.

His pre-draft workout was playing catch with his BYU teammates.  I swear I wanted to vomit from the way people were gushing about his pro-day. 

[section314]

1 minute ago, FidelioJet said:

But look at him in Week 1.
He was surely stepping into his throws. His footwork was pretty strong, much better than it’s been the past two weeks.  He was accurate and looked mostly good  

What that says about ZW I, not sure, but this whole idea that somehow he’s incapable of it or it was a bad prospect or they weren’t trying to teach him. Etc. that’s all a load of BS. 
The reality is he got the sh*t kicked out of him and is now playing timid.  
 

Or they are dumbing down the routes, making them shorter, and taking away what he does best? 

[Bronx]

10 minutes ago, All Gas, No Gase said:

After the first drive LaFleur’s play calling went away from quick passes. Of all the problems on offense, LaFleur’s playing calling is the worse issue. Improve the play calling, a lot of the other problems are at least diminished. 

 

The bottom line, KISS (keep it short and simple).

[More Cowbell]

2 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

But look at him in Week 1.
He was surely stepping into his throws. His footwork was pretty strong, much better than it’s been the past two weeks.  He was accurate and looked mostly good  

What that says about ZW I, not sure, but this whole idea that somehow he’s incapable of it or it was a bad prospect or they weren’t trying to teach him. Etc. that’s all a load of BS. 
The reality is he got the sh*t kicked out of him and is now playing timid.  
 

I think Zack has been reading his press clippings about his arm talent and thinks his feet can be wherever.  

[Charlie Brown]

12 minutes ago, Gastineau Lives said:

No, Darnold was pounded like this in the Patriots game in 2019. This season has been three of those so far.

I think that Darnold was ponded consistently like this over three years. The OL was poor when Darnold got to the Jets and we saw how in year two when he went down how the Jets couldn't get a first down in games, Darnold wasn't in and how really poor the OL was! 

Think, Darnold was making the OL look better than it was by bailing out of the pocket, throwing crazy poor mecahinic throws, trying to make a play and he looked at least passable towards the end of year two....but the OL sucked, period. 

Darnold was letting go of the ball faster than Zach is in his second game, doesn't mean Zach won't be better; and then in year 3 Gase Black Magic does what is always does, that is, he poisoned the players and the team and the OL was still a mess.

The idea that somehow Wilson has a worst OL than Darold is not born out by the eye test or by the fact that Zach is holding onto the ball a little too long.

 

[Gastineau Lives]

2 minutes ago, Charlie Brown said:

I think that Darnold was ponded consistently like this over three years. The OL was poor when Darnold got to the Jets and we saw how in year two when he went down how the Jets couldn't get a first down in games how poor the OL! 

Darnold was making the OL look better than it was by bailing out of the pocket, throwing crazy poor mecahinic throws, trying to make a play and he looked at least passable towards the end of year two....but the OL sucked, period.  He was letting go of the ball faster than Zach is in his second game, doesn't mean Zach won't be better; and then in year 3 Gase Black Magic does what is always does, that is, he poisoned the players and the team and the OL was still a mess.

The idea that somehow Wilson has a worst OL than Darold is not born out by the eye test or by the fact that Zach is holding onto the ball a little too long.

 

Zach has had an average of 1.7 seconds to throw. That's only .3 seconds shorter than @T0mShaneejaculation time. 

[phill1c]

Just now, Gastineau Lives said:

Zach has had an average of 1.7 seconds to throw. 

is that enough? 

How many did Geno Smith have? You see where I'm going with this... 

[jetswinbaby!]

There must first be a pocket in order to have a presence in it...

[Charlie Brown]

5 minutes ago, Gastineau Lives said:

Zach has had an average of 1.7 seconds to throw. That's only .3 seconds shorter than @T0mShaneejaculation time. 

Brilliant!!  

[FactsOnly]

1 hour ago, JiFapono said:

Honestly, the in game stuff means very little to me.  He's not going to the sidelines, talking to someone and then a light goes off and it's fixed and we see the results immediately.  That doesnt happen.  It's like trying to fix your golf swing on hole 12.  That is not the time. 

Zach's footwork, pocket presence, decision making, holding the ball to long and passion for playing hero ball was on full display in college and everyone praised him for it!  The nonsensical talking head morons of the world, like Chris Simms were too busy comparing him to Mahomes because of the off script, the off platform, yada yada yada and not focused on his enormous flaws.  Clearly this regime fell for it, hook, line and sinker because it doesnt seem like anyone is even discussing how completely jacked up he is fundamentally.  Legit, I've never heard once Lil Mikey or anyone else talk about what they're working on with Zach.  Say what you will about former regimes, getting Sam fundamentally sound is all you heard about leading up to week 1 of his rookie season; the wind up, the foot work, etc.   I've heard none of that with this regime and Zach is arguably more of a mess.

 

 

What the hell are you talking about he didnt have enormous flaws

he looked like a STUD 2nd half vs Carolina and as soon as this inept CS got their mitts on his game tape hes regressed every game

[FidelioJet]

18 minutes ago, More Cowbell said:

I think Zack has been reading his press clippings about his arm talent and thinks his feet can be wherever.  

Then explain to me why that wasn't an issue in week 1 (well, mostly not an issue)

I think he's simply playing timid.  Not saying that's a good thing, but just the reality.

[FactsOnly]

39 minutes ago, rangerous said:

From Jet X site.  if wilson takes 3 seconds to throw and his line holds for 2 seconds then there's a problem.

"Wilson often holds the ball much too long. He has averaged 3.0 seconds from snap-to-throw this season, ranking fifth-highest out of 35 quarterbacks.

On average, Wilson’s sacks have occurred 3.79 seconds after the snap. That ranks sixth-highest, suggesting that many of his 15 sacks were avoidable."

 

You cannot watch the games and come to this conclusion

CANNOT

[Jets Voice of Reason]

 

[Flea Flicking Frank]

2 hours ago, Maxman said:

Zach's pocket presence needs work but I don't put that all on him. He isn't confident back there even when he has a clean pocket. Getting pounded a few weeks in a row will do that to you.

Kind of the same story under Gase with Darnold, why they aren't doing more rollouts I just don't know. Call some set one read plays for high % passes at the line of scrimmage to build momentum.

Great post!

This 10000%. QB's are not robots, its easy to point to a play and say look, he had a clean pocket why didnt he throw it perfectly, but the QB needs to be able to trust his line enough to keep his eyes downfield, make a read and throw it. When most times they don't have that, its not fair to point to the one time they do and say see. Similar with timing routes for WR's.

[JustInFudge]

56 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Do you go to a book of cliches and just spew it here?  Hard to find a top college QB who didnt play more hero ball or whatever shlt we're calling it today.  The idea that all Wilson did was throw balls up without regard and his WRs made plays on it is total nonsense.  Makes you wonder why none of those WRs pulling long passes in on jump balls arent in the NFL lighting things up.  There were no enormous flaws that people other than those who didnt want Wilson saw.  Bet none of the 1,000 or so Jets fans who claim they wanted Mahomes, had him as their #1 pick were bitching at mechanics described by KC staff as the worst they ever saw.  

Of course its footwork, the new buzzword for fans. I watch Rodgers throw off his back foot all the time.  Same with Mahomes, Allen, Jackson etc.  When you complete passes and are on a good offense this issues dont count.  Offense sucks and all the internet QB whisperers provide reasons.  Has it ever occurred to you that youre the only one complaining about his mechanics, footwork at BYU and why that might be?

But hey, we could have had Fields and he totally sucks, has in every single game or preseason game hes appeared in.  Every single 1st round QB is struggling.  

I'm commenting objectively on a play/player/team that sucks.  You're making this personal.  Grow up or go away.

[FidelioJet]

49 minutes ago, ZachEY said:

I'm struggling to see how anyone could take the position that Wilson's fundamentals aren't a mess.

Wasn't that the idea before we drafted him?  That he's got a ton of talent, but there's a lot of work to be done?

Wilson, in my view, was the right pick at #2.  But, I'm disappointed that in the draft we were picking #2, that this type of player was the best available option.  Mac Jones with an NFL arm would have been nice.

That actually wasn't the consensus.  The thought was he was ready to start.  Where as folks like Fields and Lance were not.

Moreover, his fundamentals were sound in week 1.  It's not that they weren't there, it's that after he got killed his fundamentals fell apart.  

Again, not saying it's better or worse - just the reality.  It's more why this is so much on JD for

1) Brining back basically the same OL as the worst in the NFL last yaer

2) Having four rookies starting, in a new - complicated - system

3) Knowing 1 and 2 - having any rookie QB starting under these circumstances is either neglect or incompetence.  Neither of which is good.

[JustInFudge]

48 minutes ago, ZachEY said:

I'm struggling to see how anyone could take the position that Wilson's fundamentals aren't a mess.

Wasn't that the idea before we drafted him?  That he's got a ton of talent, but there's a lot of work to be done?

Wilson, in my view, was the right pick at #2.  But, I'm disappointed that in the draft we were picking #2, that this type of player was the best available option.  Mac Jones with an NFL arm would have been nice.

It's because I said it and I liked a different prospect therefore I cant be taken seriously even though it's clear as day and its shared by numerous experts.  lol  Grown ass men acting like children, bro.  I cant make a completely accurate fair assessment without someone bringing up Fields.   It's unreal.   

I want Zachkapono to be the best QB to ever walk the face of the earth but if he doesnt have anyone coaching these habits out of him, he's in trouble.  That is literally all I've said, oh and that the entire team sucks which doesnt help him either. 

I know, I'm a terrible person/fan for saying that omg, such a hater. 

[FidelioJet]

57 minutes ago, rangerous said:

From Jet X site.  if wilson takes 3 seconds to throw and his line holds for 2 seconds then there's a problem.

"Wilson often holds the ball much too long. He has averaged 3.0 seconds from snap-to-throw this season, ranking fifth-highest out of 35 quarterbacks.

On average, Wilson’s sacks have occurred 3.79 seconds after the snap. That ranks sixth-highest, suggesting that many of his 15 sacks were avoidable."

 

Once again, not taking into account that no one is open!

But if the reality is - Wilson's biggest problem is he has to make a choice .5 second faster and that's his major concern - that would be amazingly good news!  That will come with time.

[Maynard13]

3 hours ago, Gastineau Lives said:

My balls

JD you azzhole

[Maxman]

2 hours ago, JiFapono said:

Honestly, the in game stuff means very little to me.  He's not going to the sidelines, talking to someone and then a light goes off and it's fixed and we see the results immediately.  That doesnt happen.  It's like trying to fix your golf swing on hole 12.  That is not the time. 

Zach's footwork, pocket presence, decision making, holding the ball to long and passion for playing hero ball was on full display in college and everyone praised him for it!  The nonsensical talking head morons of the world, like Chris Simms were too busy comparing him to Mahomes because of the off script, the off platform, yada yada yada and not focused on his enormous flaws.  Clearly this regime fell for it, hook, line and sinker because it doesnt seem like anyone is even discussing how completely jacked up he is fundamentally.  Legit, I've never heard once Lil Mikey or anyone else talk about what they're working on with Zach.  Say what you will about former regimes, getting Sam fundamentally sound is all you heard about leading up to week 1 of his rookie season; the wind up, the foot work, etc.   I've heard none of that with this regime and Zach is arguably more of a mess.

 

 

I am more worried about the in game stuff for LaFleur. Since he is a rookie too I would like him to focusing on play calling for the next drive and not discussing too much on what Zach sees from the defense. Let someone else work on that.