Why are we being so friggin impatient with Zach?

[Dunnie]

Dude stop, just stop. LaFleur has been outstanding. Everything looks pretty damn good until Zach steps in, period.


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Totally agree... which is why Zach needs to play and gain expetience. He needs to catchup to the seasoned vet (flacco) and the three year backup (my quite).

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[jgb]

2 hours ago, Dunnie said:

Totally agree... which is why Zach needs to play and gain expetience. He needs to catchup to the seasoned vet (flacco) and the three year backup (my quite).

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It's a rare case where like 99% of fans agree. Wilson has got to get as much playing time as humanly possible here on out.

[Vader]

Zach is annoying. He is the equivalent of tone-deaf.

Short little slant? Break out the howitzer. 

Half-back pass to 5’8” RB in the flat? Throw a laser 10’ high.

 Deep out or crossing route? Throw it at WR’s feet or behind him, or out of his reach. 

He can’t run an offense until he gets command of fastball. Being a QB is like being a pitcher. There’s got to be more than one pitch in his bag

[Warfish]

5 hours ago, jgb said:

It's a rare case where like 99% of fans agree. Wilson has got to get as much playing time as humanly possible here on out.

Which also means he has to stay healthy.  No more missed time.

[jgb]

4 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Which also means he has to stay healthy.  No more missed time.

Would be the worst thing that could happen to the Jets. We need data and we need it now.

[Grandy]

Not impatient, but some of these things just can't be this bad at this point. Not asking for greatness yet but my goodness he needs to be better. 

Any "impatience" comes from the fact that he got a month off to improve and looked as bad as ever, and his overall play is at the same level as some of the worst rookie QB's of this generation.

[jgb]

4 minutes ago, Grandy said:

Not impatient, but some of these things just can't be this bad at this point. Not asking for greatness yet but my goodness he needs to be better. 

Any "impatience" comes from the fact that he got a month off to improve and looked as bad as ever, and his overall play is at the same level as some of the worst rookie QB's of this generation.

Secret

Franchise

Quarterback

In Hiding

I am saddened to report that the previous secret franchise QB in hiding, Sam Darnold, has been declared legally dead.

[varjet]

At season's end we are going to compare Wilson's statistics with Darnold's and Josh Allen's first year.  I am not optimistic.  

[jgb]

2 minutes ago, varjet said:

At season's end we are going to compare Wilson's statistics with Darnold's and Josh Allen's first year.  I am not optimistic.  

@Gastineau Lives posted today that comparing players to other players is "unfair criticism" 

[ryu79]

3 hours ago, Vader said:

Zach is annoying. He is the equivalent of tone-deaf.

Short little slant? Break out the howitzer. 

Half-back pass to 5’8” RB in the flat? Throw a laser 10’ high.

 Deep out or crossing route? Throw it at WR’s feet or behind him, or out of his reach. 

He can’t run an offense until he gets command of fastball. Being a QB is like being a pitcher. There’s got to be more than one pitch in his bag

I hate comparing players... But that does sound a lot like Allen. 

The thing is that while doing that Allen was enough of a running threat that he bought himself time to get his stuff in order. Zach doesn't have that luxury, but I do think with time he can figure out the touch. 

[Snell41]

Totally agree... which is why Zach needs to play and gain expetience. He needs to catchup to the seasoned vet (flacco) and the three year backup (my quite).

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This year I agree, but if he doesn’t show marked improvement then we need legitimate competition next year and sit his ass if he doesn’t measure up.


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[Vader]

4 hours ago, ryu79 said:

I hate comparing players... But that does sound a lot like Allen. 

The thing is that while doing that Allen was enough of a running threat that he bought himself time to get his stuff in order. Zach doesn't have that luxury, but I do think with time he can figure out the touch. 

Mos def 

[jgb]

10 hours ago, ryu79 said:

I hate comparing players... But that does sound a lot like Allen. 

The thing is that while doing that Allen was enough of a running threat that he bought himself time to get his stuff in order. Zach doesn't have that luxury, but I do think with time he can figure out the touch. 

Why do you hate comparing players? Numbers mean nothing without context.

[Dunnie]

This year I agree, but if he doesn’t show marked improvement then we need legitimate competition next year and sit his ass if he doesn’t measure up.


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Totally agree

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[jgb]

10 hours ago, Snell41 said:

 

This year I agree, but if he doesn’t show marked improvement then we need legitimate competition next year and sit his ass if he doesn’t measure up.


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Agree. Sadly, we will likely need to trade. Can't see a legit FA QB coming here (such as Trubisky) to compete assuming there will be options with clearer paths to start.

[ryu79]

12 hours ago, jgb said:

Why do you hate comparing players? Numbers mean nothing without context.

Because everyone's situation is different. 

[Jets723]

On 11/29/2021 at 2:32 PM, LSJF said:

Why are we being so friggin impatient with Zach?

Do you really feel he has no shot to get acclimated to the pro game?

When he was drafted it was known that it took him time to adjust at every level he has played. However when he adjusted he was number two pick worthy...

He's got skills, arm strength, mobility, improvisational ability, moxie...He's kinda skinny, I hope that injuries don't become a thing...if so then it's a bust...

the game is way fast for him now, but this is what experience is about... especially in the same way he had to grow in college, he will have to master the pro game, he's a game smart dude with winning play instincts, he is green right now, deal with it... the weopanz are good enough for plays to happen, I think we will see improvement... He's forcing passes, throwing too hard, trying to do do much...it was smart of Lafleur to do runs, nothing wrong with running the ball the way we did...He will emerge maybe not  today, but which QB outside of Mac and Herbert have already...

I know we have PSTD over Darnold, I agree, but honestly he seemed super nice, but low football IQ, only with a team like N England could Sam seem competent... 

When Zach gets his sh*te together, he will be an exciting QB, he's the same Zach we loved when he was being compared to maholmes and buddying it up with Aaron Rogers... Even the media fell in love with him…..The rookie class of Trevor Lawrence, Fields, etc, they are learning nobody but Mac is doing great...

The line is getting better, and if our LT comes back he will have just enuff time for him to make decisions... Did you see his improv play in the Tennessee game, when he was rookie of the week...

I mean yeah he's gotta lotta ways to go, but I still think he has it, and if he doesn't we will know soon enough... He is GREEN, and players who are green and have talent are  raw, he's not polished but not hopeless at least give him til the middle of next year to see if he is catching on...

Agreed

[jgb]

1 hour ago, ryu79 said:

Because everyone's situation is different. 

OK, well who do you think are the top 5 QBs in the league right now?

[BRONX DUDE]

On 12/2/2021 at 5:03 PM, varjet said:

At season's end we are going to compare Wilson's statistics with Darnold's and Josh Allen's first year.  I am not optimistic.  

This is a ME2 movement.

[Jetluv58]

On 12/1/2021 at 4:01 PM, FTL Jet Fan said:

That’s what he needs a confidence boost and more games under his belt. He has got his ass kicked, got hurt, got booed, etc. It’s not easy on some of these kids and as a Jets fan I hope he can put it together as he has the talent. The kid needs more games under his belt and hopefully after his rookie year his play gets better after every game. I just hope he can keep it together mentally as that is a large percentage of why some QB’s fail. NY is no easy task as it is.

Especially when half the fans hate him for being rich or pretty. They want Mike. They think they could have a beer with him. Identity politics, of a sort.

[jgb]

8 minutes ago, Jetluv58 said:

Especially when half the fans hate him for being rich or pretty. They want Mike. They think they could have a beer with him. Identity politics, of a sort.

The conspiracy theories floating around on this board are repugnant for intimating that your fellow Jet fans are bigoted against those whose personal beliefs prohibit drinking (that's our coach, too, FYI) with the only "evidence" being that we are critical of literally the lowest-rated QB in the league.

Never go full Nico, man.

[Jetluv58]

6 hours ago, jgb said:

The conspiracy theories floating around on this board are repugnant for intimating that your fellow Jet fans are bigoted against those whose personal beliefs prohibit drinking (that's our coach, too, FYI) with the only "evidence" being that we are critical of literally the lowest-rated QB in the league.

Never go full Nico, man.

It goes beyond mere impartial football analysis. There is resentment of his wealth and looks. 

[undertow]

6 hours ago, Jetluv58 said:

Especially when half the fans hate him for being rich or pretty. They want Mike. They think they could have a beer with him. Identity politics, of a sort.

no homo but I'd bang Mike White before Zach.

[GreenFish]

6 hours ago, Jetluv58 said:

It goes beyond mere impartial football analysis. There is resentment of his wealth and looks. 

Sometimes the obvious answer is the answer. Zach hasn't played well.

 

[GreenFish]

On 12/1/2021 at 4:38 PM, Snell41 said:

 

Dude stop, just stop. LaFleur has been outstanding. Everything looks pretty damn good until Zach steps in, period.


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ML has shown to be a good OC. Our OL has even turned the corner and looks to be an avg unit in the NFL. There are no excuses for Zach’s poor that don't start and end with Zach.

I really liked Zach as a prospect and am shocked at how bad he has played. He did not have accuracy issues in college. 

[Snell41]

ML has shown to be a good OC. Our OL has even turned the corner and looks to be an avg unit in the NFL. There are no excuses for Zach’s poor that don't start and end with Zach.
I really liked Zach as a prospect and am shocked at how bad he has played. He did not have accuracy issues in college. 

I did not like him at all as a prospect for us, but I agree he did not have accuracy issues in college. Those issues are simply human nature. He is so overwhelmed by the complexity of the NFL game that he’s completely lost his fundamentals. It happens to all people in all walks of life. He’s a guppy that used to be the big fish and now hes swimming with nothing great whites and he’s getting eaten alive. He needed at least a year, probably 2, to sit and study the details and complexities of NFL defenses and offenses. Once he actually knows them then it’s a matter of catching up to the speed of the game. Unfortunately todays NFL doesn’t allow you to do this with 1st round QB’s very often and as a result in my opinion he will bust out of the league in 3 years. He may hang on as a backup somewhere if he does actually begin to learn the nuances of the NFL game


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[Snell41]

Especially when half the fans hate him for being rich or pretty. They want Mike. They think they could have a beer with him. Identity politics, of a sort.

Listen, the “fans” dislike him because he sucks. The other sh*t is just noise you guys create in your mind because you cat face the fact he just sucks.


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[Hal N of Provo]

8 minutes ago, Snell41 said:

 

Listen, the “fans” dislike him because he sucks. The other sh*t is just noise you guys create in your mind because you cat face the fact he just sucks.


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Lol.   This could be his Senior season and he did not redshirt.  I love how you got here in a few games.  

[Snell41]

Lol.   This could be his Senior season and he did not redshirt.  I love how you got here in a few games.  

Always some new guy I need to have this convo with. I didn’t get here in a few games, I was here before he was even on the Jets radar at 2 overall. He was a terrible first round prospect and even more terrible to be starting day one. He is so overwhelmed by the mental complexity of the NFL game that now he can’t even hit a 5 yard wide open pass without throwing it in the dirt. He is a classic draft and sit for 3 years prospect, but unfortunately todays game doesn’t allow for that with a 1st round QB. He was a mid round prospect at best and we fell in love with his arm strength.


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[LSJF]

18 minutes ago, Snell41 said:

 

Listen, the “fans” dislike him because he sucks. The other sh*t is just noise you guys create in your mind because you cat face the fact he just sucks.


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Does he suck or is he green? He could be in the long line of Jet QB busts, but it's so soon to say, after 6 games...

I hope he inspires down the stretch of this season, nobody but *Mac from the rookie class is shining at the moment.

 

*eff the patriots

[Snell41]

Does he suck or is he green? He could be in the long line of Jet QB busts, but it's so soon to say, after 6 games...
I hope he inspires down the stretch of this season, nobody but *Mac from the rookie class is shining at the moment.
 
*eff the patriots

See my post above. He was not worthy of being a first round draft pick in my opinion. He’s so far behind mentally to the complexities of the NFL game. He doesn’t know what he’s looking at to begin with, regardless of how fast it’s moving in the NFL. He needs to learn the complexities of NFL defenses, as well as the complexities of NFL offenses. Once he knows those well you can throw him out there to adjust to the speed of it. Unfortunately he’s now so overwhelmed that he can’t complete a 5 yard wide open pass anymore because he’s so mind****ed. He was a guy you put on the bench and then take a look in 2023, but obviously we don’t have that luxury. He’d have been much better off in SF.


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[jgb]

9 hours ago, Jetluv58 said:

It goes beyond mere impartial football analysis. There is resentment of his wealth and looks. 

He is the worst-rated QB in the NFL. There is no conspiracy because no one needs a secret reason to criticize him.

 

[Hal N of Provo]

42 minutes ago, Snell41 said:

 

See my post above. He was not worthy of being a first round draft pick in my opinion. He’s so far behind mentally to the complexities of the NFL game. He doesn’t know what he’s looking at to begin with, regardless of how fast it’s moving in the NFL. He needs to learn the complexities of NFL defenses, as well as the complexities of NFL offenses. Once he knows those well you can throw him out there to adjust to the speed of it. Unfortunately he’s now so overwhelmed that he can’t complete a 5 yard wide open pass anymore because he’s so mind****ed. He was a guy you put on the bench and then take a look in 2023, but obviously we don’t have that luxury. He’d have been much better off in SF.


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I don’t disagree he’s not reading great against lots of defenses yet.  He doesn’t trust his eyes for an extra hitch.  When I say it’s moving too fast that’s what I mean.  
 

The standard zones he seems to tear apart and is able to do all the little stuff like look defenders off and anticipate.  So it’s not the player speed.   DCordinators are not dumb.   They see what’s confusing him and give him a steady diet of that.

He was REALLY good at reading stuff in college and being a step ahead.   Against some NFL defenses he is there today.   I think that makes it likely he will get there in the NFL as well.  
 

You want success today but the Jets are planning on letting him grow into it.  SF would have been an easier fit, but maybe this game time stuff will pay off sooner.  

[Hal N of Provo]

4 minutes ago, jgb said:

He is the worst-rated QB in the NFL. There is no conspiracy because no one needs a secret reason to criticize him.

 

Yeah but he is doing some things alright and the “anti-Zaxxers refuse to give it when it’s due.   
 

There is an expectation problem and that’s not on Zach.  

[Snell41]

I don’t disagree he’s not reading great against lots of defenses yet.  He doesn’t trust his eyes for an extra hitch.  When I say it’s moving too fast that’s what I mean.  
 
The standard zones he seems to tear apart and is able to do all the little stuff like look defenders off and anticipate.  So it’s not the player speed.   DCordinators are not dumb.   They see what’s confusing him and give him a steady diet of that.
He was REALLY good at reading stuff in college and being a step ahead.   Against some NFL defenses he is there today.   I think that makes it likely he will get there in the NFL as well.  
 
You want success today but the Jets are planning on letting him grow into it.  SF would have been an easier fit, but maybe this game time stuff will pay off sooner.  

Ok, so the “stuff” he was really good at reading in college is the equivalent of kindergarten books compared to the NFL. Scouts have been so heavily leaning towards the athletic ability of prospects because they realize just about every college QB prospect is well behind the NFL mentally, and because they need to start a first round QB pretty much right away because of the monetary structure of rookies and the salary cap. The hope is the QB can use their physical advantages while they learn the mental game. A guy likeJosh Allen, for wxample, has massive size and speed to go along with a cannon of an arm. He can physically create positive plays while learning on the fly. His physical game has allowed him to have success while his mental game catches up, and as good as he is right now his mental game still hasn’t caught up.

For Zach I think the scouts saw his arm strength and fast 40 time and figured he could use that to succeed while he learns. The problem is they overlooked the red flags of his size and body frame. Wilson can’t take the pounding that guys like Allen, Murray, and Jackson can, so his 4.6 speed is rendered pretty useless. Personally given our division I would have sat every prospect down and had a bevy of defensive film from the Pats and other great defenses for them to watch and ask the prospect what the defense is, and prior to rolling film what ever defender was about to do and how different offenses work (or don’t) against them. I’d want to know the prospect is completely mentally prepared so the only growing pains is the pain of catching up to the speed. Zach has no clue half the time what the D is doing until the play starts and by then it’s just too late.


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