All Zach Wilson throws vs Jax

[undertow]

37 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Hey man. For those of us who are Zach skeptics, can you tell us what kind of Zach Wilson stat line would constitute “progress” in this Sunday’s game? I’ll hang up and listen. Thanks. 

The bar is low that looking like a professional QB and throwing a few accurate balls constitutes progress.  I agree he looks better then the dumpster fire that was his first 6 games but at some point it would be nice if he puts up Davis Mills or Josh Johnson numbers....I didn't mention Mike White because i don't want anyone having a conniption fit.

[T0mShane]

11 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

That depends...

As an example - Are the int's because the ball went through his receivers hands and were picked off (as many have) did the receiver run the wrong route - when Zach was making an anticipation throw (as many have) or are they bonehead or inaccurate throws.

If it's the latter - that's a problem.  If it's the former it's not...There is nuance here that is being refused to be recognized.

 

14 minutes ago, rtnelson said:

He's "LAST IN QBR" but his "Best QBR in the NFL week is a C-note!"  Keep it straight man.  QBR matters or it doesn't.

There's a difference between looking like complete trash the next two weeks and just managing expectations.  When the entire team is getting their doors blown off, it's probably not going to look pretty for a young QB with practice squad receivers.  That doesn't mean we're okay with him throwing 4 picks in a 11/33 0TD 4INT game.  It's just we manage expectations based on quality of opponent and injuries around him.

Are you going in to this week with the exact same expectations for the team and the QB as you did last week?  If so, I need whatever mood stabilizer meds you're on, because they work fantastically. 

I’m not picking on you guys or Zach. I just feel like the bar you set for him is subterranean. Like, come on, let him go out and at least be competitive this Sunday. Show a little fight. We know they’re going to get nuked, but enough of this “well, we can’t really judge him because he has Jeff Smith as his WR4.” If he’s the future of the team, let him go out the next two weeks and put a little fear into Tampa and the Bills. 

[Hal N of Provo]

21 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

 

I’m not picking on you guys or Zach. I just feel like the bar you set for him is subterranean. Like, come on, let him go out and at least be competitive this Sunday. Show a little fight. We know they’re going to get nuked, but enough of this “well, we can’t really judge him because he has Jeff Smith as his WR4.” If he’s the future of the team, let him go out the next two weeks and put a little fear into Tampa and the Bills. 

Yeah my expectations for a rookie QB are low.   I want them to look like they are seeing the game.  Starting a rookie QB is a lost season.  There have been a couple exceptions to the rule, but it doesn’t make it go away.

[Augustiniak]

22 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

 

I’m not picking on you guys or Zach. I just feel like the bar you set for him is subterranean. Like, come on, let him go out and at least be competitive this Sunday. Show a little fight. We know they’re going to get nuked, but enough of this “well, we can’t really judge him because he has Jeff Smith as his WR4.” If he’s the future of the team, let him go out the next two weeks and put a little fear into Tampa and the Bills. 

And who else is going to put fear into these teams?  Both of these teams were top 4 last season.  Do you really think anyone on these teams has even heard of anyone on the jets offense besides wilson and maybe Michael carter?

[rtnelson]

19 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

I’m not picking on you guys or Zach. I just feel like the bar you set for him is subterranean. Like, come on, let him go out and at least be competitive this Sunday. Show a little fight. We know they’re going to get nuked, but enough of this “well, we can’t really judge him because he has Jeff Smith as his WR4.” If he’s the future of the team, let him go out the next two weeks and put a little fear into Tampa and the Bills. 

We want him to do well.  But to go in with that as an expectation is just silly.  He's looking better, but it's hard to judge a lot of that when guys straight up can't get open.

If you watch other games in the NFL QB's are throwing to wide open guys all day.  The expectation is it's going to be extremely rough because nobody can get open against the JAGUARS.  So to expect him to suddenly be able to put "fear" into the Bucs because of... his draft position?  Is silly.  This team is not in a position to compete against the Bucs even if we had Tom Brady as QB.  Maybe we catch them sleeping on us, because any given sunday and the like, but you still need players to make plays that aren't your QB.

It's not low expectations on Zach, it's low expectations on almost every other aspect of the team.  He could literally robot in perfect passes to these guys 40 times in a row, and still probably end up 25/40 1TD and 2INT.  That's the expectations I have of everyone around him, because they are literally practice squad players.

[T0mShane]

1 minute ago, rtnelson said:

If you watch other games in the NFL QB's are throwing to wide open guys all day.

This is a lie.

[Augustiniak]

1 minute ago, T0mShane said:

This is a lie.

True.  But what you do see on red zone are lots of guys on other teams making their qbs look good while many here lament/criticize wilson for every throw that isn’t exactly on the mark.  We get no leaping grabs, unlikely catches, amazing moves, etc.  instead, you want wilson to put fear into the defending super bowl champions with Jeff smith.

[HawkeyeJet]

53 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Hey man. For those of us who are Zach skeptics, can you tell us what kind of Zach Wilson stat line would constitute “progress” in this Sunday’s game? I’ll hang up and listen. Thanks. 

You didn’t ask me and I know I will now be permanently lumped in with the blind homers, but these are the things I actually enjoy discussing.  Here is a stat line(that will not look that great to the passer by) that’d I’d be very happy with and my reasoning.

21/33 185 1TD and 0 picks.

Again, I understand how pedestrian that looks.

Here is why I’d be happy, even encouraged by that.  The Bucs passing D per game average through 15 games is roughly allowing

26/40 242 yards 1.5 Td/1 int per game

Take into account the Jets are likely going to try and run a little more often, that’s how I get to those attempt numbers. It’s a little less than the per completion average, but not by much.  Same for completion percentage.  So if he can get in the vicinity of what the “league” has done against the Bucs, I’d be happy.

[CSNY]

If the Jets run for close to 300 yards per game I wouldn’t care if they didn’t throw it more than 10 times for 100 yards. 400 yards of offense is still 400 yards of offense no matter how you get it 

[T0mShane]

Just now, HawkeyeJet said:

You didn’t ask me and I know I will now be permanently lumped in with the blind homers, but these are the things I actually enjoy discussing.  Here is a stat line(that will not look that great to the passer by) that’d I’d be very happy with and my reasoning.

21/33 185 1TD and 0 picks.

Again, I understand how pedestrian that looks.

Here is why I’d be happy, even encouraged by that.  The Bucs passing D per game average through 15 games is roughly allowing

26/40 242 yards 1.5 Td/1 int per game

Take into account the Jets are likely going to try and run a little more often, that’s how I get to those attempt numbers. It’s a little less than the per completion average, but not by much.  Same for completion percentage.  So if he can get in the vicinity of what the “league” has done against the Bucs, I’d be happy.

I think this is an excellent answer and one I would wholeheartedly agree with. Lead a few drives down the field in the second half. Make a few throws down the field that has the Bucs secondary yelling at each other. Get your hogs up to the line in the fourth quarter and make them believe you’re trying to score a TD. Show a little neck. 

[T0mShane]

3 minutes ago, Augustiniak said:

True.  But what you do see on red zone are lots of guys on other teams making their qbs look good while many here lament/criticize wilson for every throw that isn’t exactly on the mark.  We get no leaping grabs, unlikely catches, amazing moves, etc.  instead, you want wilson to put fear into the defending super bowl champions with Jeff smith.

I think what the Jets receiving corps shows you week in and week out is a lack of confidence. Confidence emanates from the QB. It’s like when a basketball team has a bad point guard and everyone shoots poorly. 

[CSNY]

Just now, T0mShane said:

I think what the Jets receiving corps shows you week in and week out is a lack of confidence. Confidence emanates from the QB. It’s like when a basketball team has a bad point guard and everyone shoots poorly. 

So dropped passes are because of a lack of confidence in a QB. That’s a head scratcher. Please explain 

[rtnelson]

12 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

This is a lie.

Go watch "every Dak Prescott Throw" from any week, and compare the separation there.  Almost every throw is uncontested at the catch.  And it's not because Dak is the best QB ever.

[Augustiniak]

5 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

I think what the Jets receiving corps shows you week in and week out is a lack of confidence. Confidence emanates from the QB. It’s like when a basketball team has a bad point guard and everyone shoots poorly. 

i think what the corps shows you is that they’re inferior to most any other wr corps and that includes the TEs.  And guys like ty johnson.  There’s no real speed and nobody who can win a jump ball.  And that’s mostly on the mims fail.  

[T0mShane]

1 minute ago, CSNY said:

So dropped passes are because of a lack of confidence in a QB. That’s a head scratcher. Please explain 

Former Net Richard Jefferson once explained why playing with Jason Kidd was so easy and fun for everyone else. To paraphrase, he said that when he came off a pick, he (Jefferson) knew where the ball would be, he knew it’d be on time, and he knew that if Kidd was passing the ball to you, it was because you were the beat option to score the ball on that particular play, so when the ball hit your hands, all you had to think about was dropping the ball into the basket. 

[HawkeyeJet]

10 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

I think this is an excellent answer and one I would wholeheartedly agree with. Lead a few drives down the field in the second half. Make a few throws down the field that has the Bucs secondary yelling at each other. Get your hogs up to the line in the fourth quarter and make them believe you’re trying to score a TD. Show a little neck. 

This is a good point too.  Some of this production has to be “meaningful”.  I don’t want to keep seeing a fantastic quarter or 2 and 2 non-existent quarters.

[Augustiniak]

8 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

I think what the Jets receiving corps shows you week in and week out is a lack of confidence. Confidence emanates from the QB. It’s like when a basketball team has a bad point guard and everyone shoots poorly. 

So if starks goes 3-17 it’s b/c he has no faith in Derek Harper?

[Augustiniak]

Just now, HawkeyeJet said:

This is a good point too.  Some of this production has to be “meaningful”.  I don’t want to keep seeing a fantastic quarter or 2 and 2 non-existent quarters.

Some of the production doesn’t have to even lead to scores.  I’d just like to see sustained drives with some help from some of the wrs/tes

[T0mShane]

4 minutes ago, rtnelson said:

Go watch "every Dak Prescott Throw" from any week, and compare the separation there.  Almost every throw is uncontested at the catch.  And it's not because Dak is the best QB ever.

I’d venture to say that Dak Prescott has been an exponentially better quarterback than Zach Wilson at every step of any process dating back to Pee Wee Football.

[CSNY]

3 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Former Net Richard Jefferson once explained why playing with Jason Kidd was so easy and fun for everyone else. To paraphrase, he said that when he came off a pick, he (Jefferson) knew where the ball would be, he knew it’d be on time, and he knew that if Kidd was passing the ball to you, it was because you were the beat option to score the ball on that particular play, so when the ball hit your hands, all you had to think about was dropping the ball into the basket. 

So pass hits you in the hands and you throw up a brick it’s the passers fault ? 

[Augustiniak]

Just now, CSNY said:

So pass hits you in the hands and you throw up a brick it’s the passers fault ? 

Yes, because you have no confidence the pass with get to you, so you’re automatically absolved from your own responsibilities of making the shot.

[T0mShane]

8 minutes ago, HawkeyeJet said:

This is a good point too.  Some of this production has to be “meaningful”.  I don’t want to keep seeing a fantastic quarter or 2 and 2 non-existent quarters.

I think a lot of his production has come against defenses who were sleepwalking through first halves against the lowly Jets. Then they start blitzing in the second half and Zach turns into Christian Hackenburg.

[T0mShane]

1 minute ago, CSNY said:

So pass hits you in the hands and you throw up a brick it’s the passers fault ? 

If the point guard runs back to midcourt and throws the ball to you at 145 MPH with two seconds left on the shot clock because he was confused by and afraid of the defense he was facing, you are going to shoot poorly.

[T0mShane]

10 minutes ago, Augustiniak said:

So if starks goes 3-17 it’s b/c he has no faith in Derek Harper?

John Starks was the Jamal Adams of those Knicks teams

[CSNY]

12 minutes ago, Augustiniak said:

Yes, because you have no confidence the pass with get to you, so you’re automatically absolved from your own responsibilities of making the shot.

I knew that I missed all those shots for a reason. Passer was horrible Was never my fault. Thanks Augie?

[CSNY]

15 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

If the point guard runs back to midcourt and throws the ball to you at 145 MPH with two seconds left on the shot clock because he was confused by and afraid of the defense he was facing, you are going to shoot poorly.

Tom. Now your combining two sports too make a very poor argument Come On Man 

[doitny]

1 hour ago, T0mShane said:

So, it’s possible he can go 15/28, 122 yards, 0 TDs, 2 INTs in a game where the Jets get blown out by 25 and it could still constitute “progress” because Jeff Smith plays ten snaps? 

but that matters who his WRs are. 

just like an offensive line that needs time to jell so does a QB and his WRs. and the 3 starters are gone last week. 

there is alot to consider. are the INTs overthrows or tips cause his receivers can't catch the ball? how many drops are there this week? how does he handle the blitz? did he learn anything from the 4 blitz sacks he took last week? 

is he making accurate throws for a 3rd straight week or is he bouncing them again? hitting them in the numbers or throwing behind them? 

it wasnt suppose to be like this. Mims and Cole were suppose to be good options from off the bench so where we are not crippled when we get injuries like this.

if he gets Crowder and Moore back this Sunday my expectation will be higher. if not its going to be a rough game for us. i dont know how Mims and Cole get open against the SB champs when they couldn't against Jax

[T0mShane]

17 minutes ago, doitny said:

but that matters who his WRs are. 

just like an offensive line that needs time to jell so does a QB and his WRs. and the 3 starters are gone last week. 

there is alot to consider. are the INTs overthrows or tips cause his receivers can't catch the ball? how many drops are there this week? how does he handle the blitz? did he learn anything from the 4 blitz sacks he took last week? 

is he making accurate throws for a 3rd straight week or is he bouncing them again? hitting them in the numbers or throwing behind them? 

it wasnt suppose to be like this. Mims and Cole were suppose to be good options from off the bench so where we are not crippled when we get injuries like this.

if he gets Crowder and Moore back this Sunday my expectation will be higher. if not its going to be a rough game for us. i dont know how Mims and Cole get open against the SB champs when they couldn't against Jax

Didn’t matter to Mike White or Josh Johnson. 

[doitny]

16 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Didn’t matter to Mike White or Josh Johnson. 

really. he didnt have Moore go 6-67 yds and Crowder go 8-84 yds vs Cincy?

was Moore not there to catch 7 for 84 yds and 2 TDs vs Indy? 

Davis went 5-93 yds vs Buffalo? 

[Matt39]

It does seem like he’s getting past his first read more often.

[slimjasi]

27 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Didn’t matter to Mike White or Josh Johnson. 

Ahhh yes, the legendary backup QBs of the NY Jets,. Mike White had one great game and one terrible game. Josh Johnson had a couple of really good quarters in mop up duty after the team fell behind 42-10. What are we even comparing to, exactly? This argument doesn't go anywhere. 

You guys act like the Jets suddenly turned into the 2000 Rams without Wilson in the lineup. The Jets were 1-3 without Wilson and scored less than 20 points in 2 of those 4 games and were trailing 42-10 in another. 

edit: 42-10

[Peace Frog]

On 12/27/2021 at 10:55 AM, slimjasi said:

Strange for a historically bad, all-time QB bust to do this 12 games into his career 

 

On 12/27/2021 at 11:24 AM, Barry McCockinner said:

If you don't reach a certain level in the first 9 games, any progress thereafter is meaningless. The guy is toast.

Here’s what I don’t get. From a supposed “Jet fan” ramming “bust trash garbage Josh Rosen not Josh Allen low bar on the 52 yard run blah blah blah” down our throats over and over and over and over and over again. 

What is this dude getting from his sociopathy about his hate for Zach?

Is there something else going on in his life that he needs to compensate for? 

What is he compensating for?

Is there an emptiness, or worse, or something nefarious, why he needs to sh*t on our QB? And demand we all accept it, nay, celebrate it?

Is there a reason as an ISOLATED incident Jet fans can’t be entertained by his epic TD run? 

Why can’t we be happy about it?

The dude has issues that I hope he can have addressed either medically psychologically or pharmacologically. 

[Dunnie]

Dunnie come on bro lol you ain’t no rookie

I was just offering the reason behind some of the reactions here.

Not saying i dont expect it.

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[Dunnie]

“Everyone knew Zach was a project and would need time to develop”, from the same posters that said he has talent that only Aaron Rodgers and Patrick Mahomes possess. Oh, and he was going to break Justin Herbert’s rookie passing records. This was just mere months ago. 

Those were few and far between ... i was at the head of the Zach train and never said anything of the sort.

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[Dunnie]

Hey man. For those of us who are Zach skeptics, can you tell us what kind of Zach Wilson stat line would constitute “progress” in this Sunday’s game? I’ll hang up and listen. Thanks. 

I just want to see continued progress on touch passes, improvement leading his receivers, pre snap recognition, and continued throwing platform stability.

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