All Zach Wilson throws vs Jax

[Jetsfan80]

27 minutes ago, Hal N of Provo said:

Aaron Rodgers was way behind Zach at this point.  Every “Zach doesn’t have it” complaint is multiplied on his tape (EDIT YouTube video) from 2005.  The guy is legitimately included in QB GOAT discussions now.    

Zach is clearly getting better to me.  I see it all over; but it can be summarized by saying the game is starting to slow down for him.

After the he end of next season is the traditional time to ask questions that started being asked here after the 1st scrimmage lol.  

Every Aaron Rodgers = 20 or so DeShone Kizer's.

[T0mShane]

3 hours ago, ZachEY said:

e with a lot of what @T0mShane has been saying here and elsewhere.  It seems clear to me that the coaching staff doesn't have much faith in him, and isn't giving him a ton to do.  It sure looks to me like they're trying to hide him, and that's working as far as eliminating the back breaking plays we saw earlier.  But, again, is that because they've put a leash on him, or because he's learning something?  It looks to me like he went from terrible to unproductive, and I'm not sure that's not more lateral than upwards.

He has two more TD passes than Josh Johnson and Mike White. He’s 31st in yards per att. He’s 30th in yards per game (just ahead of Justin Fields, but after Fields it’s Taysom Hill and an array of backups). 32nd in completion percentage, 32nd in QB rating. They are 1-6 in games where he throws it more than 24 times. He is the worst starting quarterback in football. The good news is that Lawrence and Fields also look like dogsh*t, so maybe it’s just a rough year for non-Davis-Mills rookies.

[Sperm Edwards]

6 hours ago, ZachEY said:

My perspective, and I can’t speak for 80, is that the negativity about this game is more in response to a handful of people in the game thread, and perhaps beyond, acting like this game was some kind of watershed moment for Wilson.  In reality, as I think you agree, it was an adequate performance against a terrible team.

We play the #9 and the #3 defenses in points against, coming up.  I suspect things will look different than they did against #27.

Still, he’ll 100% get his 4th Pepsi Rookie of the Week for this performance, so that’s something the haters can never take away.

A therapist might ask why, in the meantime, a fellow fan’s happiness would cause one so much angst and the need to lash out at and destroy a temporary fantasy of the deluded? Upon whom does that reflect more poorly, since reality will presumably take care of that within a week anyway?

OK that may be shamelessly low of me, but I have no shame, and I figure I could at least get half a point for creativity. I was also going to make a reference to the Sperm Couch in the moderator office but figured no one would want to lay on/in it so I went in another direction.

[JoeWillieWhiteShoesHOF]

Wilson is going to be fine.  Like another post in the thread suggests that by next year he’ll be throwing darts all over the field with the same comfort level he had at BYU.

 

[Dunnie]

10 hours ago, T0mShane said:

Let’s see Wilson pull this sh*t with Devin White and Jordan Whitehead on Sunday. It’s gonna be pick-up sticks at midfield if Wilson thinks he’s running on a team that isn’t expressly mailing it in.

I think the possibility of a bad day is large Sunday .. because my confidence in Wilson is low. But if the kid comes out with a depleted roster and makes it a game .. win or lose ... I will be a very happy man.

[T0mShane]

1 hour ago, Dunnie said:

I think the possibility of a bad day is large Sunday .. because my confidence in Wilson is low. But if the kid comes out with a depleted roster and makes it a game .. win or lose ... I will be a very happy man.

Agreed, that would be good, but the Jets are going to lose this game by 30+ and Zach Wilson is going to make Luke Falk look like a Ring of Honor candidate. This is the game that puts @Mogglez in prison for punching anyone in his neighborhood who has a positive thing to say about Keelan Cole.

[ZachEY]

4 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

A therapist might ask why, in the meantime, a fellow fan’s happiness would cause one so much angst and the need to lash out at and destroy a temporary fantasy of the deluded? Upon whom does that reflect more poorly, since reality will presumably take care of that within a week anyway?

OK that may be shamelessly low of me, but I have no shame, and I figure I could at least get half a point for creativity. I was also going to make a reference to the Sperm Couch in the moderator office but figured no one would want to lay on/in it so I went in another direction.

The serious answer to your non-serious question is that the pro-Wilson stuff in the game thread wasn’t just pro-Wilson.  It was largely call outs against anyone who dared question him.

Should we ignore a guy who is an actual piece of sh*t who acted exactly this way towards anyone who dared question Sam Darnold until he completely forgot that position but is now doing it again a la Guy Pierce’s character in Memento, or a guy who argued Darnold is good up until like a month ago and is making verbatim arguments just flipping Wilson for Darnold now, oddly a la Guy Pierce’s character in Memento?  Sure.  But, symbolic penis and whatnot.

[Sperm Edwards]

44 minutes ago, ZachEY said:

The serious answer to your non-serious question is that the pro-Wilson stuff in the game thread wasn’t just pro-Wilson.  It was largely call outs against anyone who dared question him.

Should we ignore a guy who is an actual piece of sh*t who acted exactly this way towards anyone who dared question Sam Darnold until he completely forgot that position but is now doing it again a la Guy Pierce’s character in Memento, or a guy who argued Darnold is good up until like a month ago and is making verbatim arguments just flipping Wilson for Darnold now, oddly a la Guy Pierce’s character in Memento?  Sure.  But, symbolic penis and whatnot.

I wasn’t in the game thread so I didn’t see that…nor Memento for that matter. I did watch the week 2 game - and was therefore seeing other games’ updates - with someone who was repeatedly told-you-so’ing me re: Darnold. I do remember imagining I had a well-trained enough dog to bite him in his symbolic penis. 

[Dunnie]

The serious answer to your non-serious question is that the pro-Wilson stuff in the game thread wasn’t just pro-Wilson.  It was largely call outs against anyone who dared question him.
Should we ignore a guy who is an actual piece of sh*t who acted exactly this way towards anyone who dared question Sam Darnold until he completely forgot that position but is now doing it again a la Guy Pierce’s character in Memento, or a guy who argued Darnold is good up until like a month ago and is making verbatim arguments just flipping Wilson for Darnold now, oddly a la Guy Pierce’s character in Memento?  Sure.  But, symbolic penis and whatnot.

Honestly... pent up frustration by the level headed due to the Wilson lynch mob is what lead to an outburst of overstating his performance last Sunday.

Unfortunately ... even amidst his obviously improved performance level, the leaders of that mob blindly held their faith and came accross as obstinant agenda driven individuals with preconceoved judgments full of rediculous unfounded attacks the player's physical stature.

I think most of us just wanted to feel good for a change on Sunday and enjoy what was happening.... the ascention of what might be (no matter how improbable) our Franchise QB of the forseeable future.

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[maury77]

11 hours ago, HawkeyeJet said:

One thing I would be curious about is whether you and @Jetsfan80 would agree/disagree with this:

Wilson has shown improvement over the course of the season.

Maybe you commented on it before if so my bad.  If you do, do you consider it marginal, significant, somewhere in between? I ask because I think both of you are generally fair even if I think you may skew a bit more negatively than I do.

The reason I ask is I think sometimes the conversation ends up focusing on a particular performance being good vs bad on both sides of the debate. The thing I don’t particularly like about viewing it in those exact terms is it fails to recognize/account for if he’s growing, which is really the important thing.  

I think the general consensus in say July was he needed lots of seasoning.  He needed time. So his starting point may not be the same as say Lawrence or Jones.  Probably closer to Fields in terms of perceived adjustments needed at this level.

So I think the most important question is not did he play bad/good/ok today, it’s how much better is he now than September.  I’d say he’s considerably better.  He hasn’t made improvements by leaps and bounds, but I do think he has improved considerably in decision making and improved incrementally in poise and recognition. 

Do you think he has improved?  

You didn't direct it at me, but I would absolutely say he has improved. However, the improvement has been incredibly modest. And I'm going to beat this dead horse again but if Wilson needed as much seasoning as Fields as a rookie, then they should have taken the higher upside talent. Hawk, you know I agree with you about 99% of the time, but I don't think the general consensus in July was that Wilson needed seasoning. From pre-draft all the way to week 1, we were continuously told that Wilson was an elite talent that was ready to step right into the wide zone offense because he ran it at BYU. It was a load of sh!t. 

[FidelioJet]

6 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

A therapist might ask why, in the meantime, a fellow fan’s happiness would cause one so much angst and the need to lash out at and destroy a temporary fantasy of the deluded? Upon whom does that reflect more poorly, since reality will presumably take care of that within a week anyway?

OK that may be shamelessly low of me, but I have no shame, and I figure I could at least get half a point for creativity. I was also going to make a reference to the Sperm Couch in the moderator office but figured no one would want to lay on/in it so I went in another direction.

Your lack of intellectual honestly is glaring.

It is now and never was going to be his "rankings" or stats.  It should always have been about his progression and it's clear he has grown as a player.  

While I don't think stats matter mall that much for a rookie, his statistical performance has been far better since returning from injury. lMoreover, looking at the season in the aggregate - while factual would be a poor understanding of him as a professional, considering those first 3 games were a disaster for this entire team. 

What's most important, though, is his comfort level.  We are all, supposedly football fans, and seemingly Jet fans that watch pretty much every play of every game - a few of us multiple times.

Not recognizing just how much better he looks pre-injury vs. post-injury would be ignorant or dishonest - and I don't think your ignorant.

While a long way to go - progress is good, and it's clear and present.  

The argument you're making is Zach Wilson is bad because he's ranks so low and because he was so statistically bad early in the season - his evolution as a player has no bearing on his potential.  It's silly really.

[ZachEY]

23 minutes ago, Dunnie said:

Honestly... pent up frustration by the level headed due to the Wilson lynch mob is what lead to an outburst of overstating his performance last Sunday.

Unfortunately ... even amidst his obviously improved performance level, the leaders of that mob blindly held their faith and came accross as obstinant agenda driven individuals with preconceoved judgments full of rediculous unfounded attacks the player's physical stature.

I think most of us just wanted to feel good for a change on Sunday and enjoy what was happening.... the ascention of what might be (no matter how improbable) our Franchise QB of the forseeable future.

Sent from my SM-G950U1 using Tapatalk
 

If someone wants to enjoy the game without different points of view, I’d recommend against the JN game thread.

If that person insists on being there, perhaps enjoying the actual play and not using it as a vehicle to call out those you disagree with might be a jumping off point?

[Dunnie]

If someone wants to enjoy the game without different points of view, I’d recommend against the JN game thread.
If that person insists on being there, perhaps enjoying the actual play and not using it as a vehicle to call out those you disagree with might be a jumping off point?

Offering a thoughtful considered position instead of venemous spewtom might be a good starting point for inserting ones opinions into a thread.

I do agree that a message board like this is not for those with a wavering intestinal fortitude.

Furthermore, I think opposing views are what make forums such as this worthwhile, colorful and fun.

It is when these tirades becomes overtly repetative, inflammatory and demeaning that i have any sort of issue with them. Or when a single poster promulgates his self affirmed genius as superior to that of the surely mentally deficient masses.

If someone has a predetermined unwavering point of view and is not open to possibly being incorrect. You have to wonder about their motive and agenda.

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[Jet Nut]

On 12/26/2021 at 8:15 PM, Butterfield said:

I saw nothing inspiring today.  More eh.  

 

On 12/26/2021 at 8:17 PM, Dunnie said:

Kid won a game with his top 3 wrs out


Thats basically....incredible.

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On 12/26/2021 at 8:21 PM, bla bla bla said:

- Another day with no turnovers

- Kid has wheels on the ground

- No LG, RG, WR1, WR2, WR3

- Jags knew we had to run, and we ran it down their throat.

 

Not thrilled with the win but if you don't see progress, you aren't watching.

If you’re going to discuss the position do more than read passing yardage stats and take the entire situation into account. 

Sometimes it can really effect the narrative

[Joe W. Namath]

13 pages and not 1 mention of zach wilson being a nice kid.  A 3 page darnold thread and every other post is about how nice he is.

 

[Dunnie]

2 minutes ago, Joe W. Namath said:

13 pages and not 1 mention of zach wilson being a nice kid.  A 3 page darnold thread and every other post is about how nice he is.

 

Joe W ... we found your trigger ???

[Butterfield]

2 hours ago, Jet Nut said:

 

 

If you’re going to discuss the position do more than read passing yardage stats and take the entire situation into account. 

Sometimes it can really effect the narrative

Personally, I’m not interested in much of any ‘narrative.’  It just wasn’t an impressive game in my opinion.  You can disagree.  

[Jet Nut]

4 hours ago, Butterfield said:

Personally, I’m not interested in much of any ‘narrative.’  It just wasn’t an impressive game in my opinion.  You can disagree.  

I never said it was.  They played without WRs against a team that can’t play the run and they took advantage of that.  Smart and effective 

[T0mShane]

7 hours ago, Dunnie said:

Offering a thoughtful considered position instead of venemous spewtom

Dunnie come on bro lol you ain’t no rookie

[T0mShane]

6 hours ago, Joe W. Namath said:

13 pages and not 1 mention of zach wilson being a nice kid.  A 3 page darnold thread and every other post is about how nice he is.

 

Darnold and Zach are both very nice, but I think Zach has a higher IQ by roughly 20 points. 

[T0mShane]

8 hours ago, FidelioJet said:

Not recognizing just how much better he looks pre-injury vs. post-injury would be ignorant or dishonest - and I don't think your ignorant.

Hey man. For those of us who are Zach skeptics, can you tell us what kind of Zach Wilson stat line would constitute “progress” in this Sunday’s game? I’ll hang up and listen. Thanks. 

[rtnelson]

Zach is looking better despite the playmakers around him dropping like flies.  He doesn't look like an all-star yet, but if we can notice slow and steady improvement week by week while the players around him are always different, that's a good thing.

The next two weeks are going to be rough for the team as a whole.  There will likely be a group of people here blaming it all on Wilson for some absurd reason, but it is what it is.

If you go in with the expectation that this is going to look bad for everyone, because we're playing against two teams that are in legit competition for the superbowl, we can all sit back and relax and hope for the best without overreacting.  Because the team is about to face a drubbing, not just the QB.

Even if Tom Brady's lack of wEaPoMNNSZZ has him lacking points against our green defense and the game is still close, it's not an indictment on Wilson if he is unable to put things together to win the game with continued practice squad WR's and TE's to throw to.

Just relax.  As long as he continues his improvement curve week by week through the start of next season we're on to something.

If he stops improving over a long stretch with a healthy relatively strong offense around him and our offense is performing poorly, then it's time to worry.  Until then, relax, the kid is improving.

[T0mShane]

2 minutes ago, rtnelson said:

If you go in with the expectation that this is going to look bad for everyone, because we're playing against two teams that are in legit competition for the superbowl, we can all sit back and relax and hope for the best without overreacting.  Because the team is about to face a drubbing, not just the QB.

Even if Tom Brady's lack of wEaPoMNNSZZ has him lacking points against our green defense and the game is still close, it's not an indictment on Wilson

[Saul Goodman]

“Everyone knew Zach was a project and would need time to develop”, from the same posters that said he has talent that only Aaron Rodgers and Patrick Mahomes possess. Oh, and he was going to break Justin Herbert’s rookie passing records. This was just mere months ago. 

[Hal N of Provo]

8 hours ago, ZachEY said:

If someone wants to enjoy the game without different points of view, I’d recommend against the JN game thread.

If that person insists on being there, perhaps enjoying the actual play and not using it as a vehicle to call out those you disagree with might be a jumping off point?

Sometimes it’s a monolithic place with a negative view during games when people get tired of arguing the Zach hate.  
 

It’s kind of silly to be making career projections for the QB all game long.  That seems better outside of the game thread.

[Hal N of Provo]

8 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Hey man. For those of us who are Zach skeptics, can you tell us what kind of Zach Wilson stat line would constitute “progress” in this Sunday’s game? I’ll hang up and listen. Thanks. 

I don’t care about the stats.   Nice plays and making good decisions is what I want to see.

There are WRs playing who probably shouldn’t be on NFL rosters.   I don’t fret when they drop nice passes and I’m not surprised when they stop relying on them to get open.  

Also, don’t know jack for another season, so the scrutiny on JN get laughable at times.  

[T0mShane]

3 minutes ago, Saul Goodman said:

“Everyone knew Zach was a project and would need time to develop”, from the same posters that said he has talent that only Aaron Rodgers and Patrick Mahomes possess. Oh, and he was going to break Justin Herbert’s rookie passing records. This was just mere months ago. 

Now it’s “he is shown great progress since coming back from injury in these select quarters of play (ignore these other quarters!) and in putting up a C-note on the Jaguars, but also the next two games don’t count because they will be hard.”

[faba]

Lets see how he matches up with two very good teams Bucs and bills to see what progress he is making

[T0mShane]

5 minutes ago, Hal N of Provo said:

I don’t care about the stats.   Nice plays and making good decisions is what I want to see.

There are WRs playing who probably shouldn’t be on NFL rosters.   I don’t fret when they drop nice passes and I’m not surprised when they stop relying on them to get open.  

Also, don’t know jack for another season, so the scrutiny on JN get laughable at times.  

So, it’s possible he can go 15/28, 122 yards, 0 TDs, 2 INTs in a game where the Jets get blown out by 25 and it could still constitute “progress” because Jeff Smith plays ten snaps? 

[Hal N of Provo]

Just now, T0mShane said:

So, it’s possible he can go 15/28, 122 yards, 0 TDs, 2 INTs in a game where the Jets get blown out by 25 and it could still constitute “progress” because Jeff Smith plays ten snaps? 

Oh for sure.   It depends on what happens in the game.   I’m not crying if it’s just a bad game either.   

[FidelioJet]

13 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Hey man. For those of us who are Zach skeptics, can you tell us what kind of Zach Wilson stat line would constitute “progress” in this Sunday’s game? I’ll hang up and listen. Thanks. 

There is no stat line - It's about overall how he's playing.

Iit's how he looks in the pocket - is he panicking? or does he look calm?  

Is he getting the ball out relatively quickly? going through progressions?

Is he accurate on his short throws? Long throws?

The stat line is irrelevant.  We're all Zach skeptics.  I think that's the point here.  No one is saying he's been overall good.  He hasn't.  But he's clearly grown and gotten better.

I suspect he's going to be under a lot of pressure -  if Moore and/or Crowder isn't playing I don't expect anyone to be open too often.  That all matters.

Bottom line, he's shown progress and that's what I'm personally looking for.   An absolute refusal to acknowledge that is the problem.

 

[rtnelson]

8 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Now it’s “he is shown great progress since coming back from injury in these select quarters of play (ignore these other quarters!) and in putting up a C-note on the Jaguars, but also the next two games don’t count because they will be hard.”

He's "LAST IN QBR" but his "Best QBR in the NFL week is a C-note!"  Keep it straight man.  QBR matters or it doesn't.

There's a difference between looking like complete trash the next two weeks and just managing expectations.  When the entire team is getting their doors blown off, it's probably not going to look pretty for a young QB with practice squad receivers.  That doesn't mean we're okay with him throwing 4 picks in a 11/33 0TD 4INT game.  It's just we manage expectations based on quality of opponent and injuries around him.

Are you going in to this week with the exact same expectations for the team and the QB as you did last week?  If so, I need whatever mood stabilizer meds you're on, because they work fantastically. 

[FidelioJet]

5 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

So, it’s possible he can go 15/28, 122 yards, 0 TDs, 2 INTs in a game where the Jets get blown out by 25 and it could still constitute “progress” because Jeff Smith plays ten snaps? 

That depends...

As an example - Are the int's because the ball went through his receivers hands and were picked off (as many have) did the receiver run the wrong route - when Zach was making an anticipation throw (as many have) or are they bonehead or inaccurate throws.

If it's the latter - that's a problem.  If it's the former it's not...There is nuance here that is being refused to be recognized.

[Nixhead]

That was the best 100 yard passing game I ever saw!

[T0mShane]

2 minutes ago, rtnelson said:

He's "LAST IN QBR" but his "Best QBR in the NFL week is a C-note!"  Keep it straight man.  QBR matters or it doesn't.

 

QBR isn’t the same as “QB rating.” ESPN invented QBR and it’s dumb as ****, obviously