All Zach Wilson throws vs Jax

[maury77]

On 12/27/2021 at 2:02 AM, Jetsfan80 said:

Lmao he could and he did, minus the big run.

These guys arguing that Wilson had a better rookie season than Darnold smoke better stuff than I do. 

[maury77]

On 12/27/2021 at 2:58 AM, Sperm Edwards said:

Well we differ on that, then. The highest picked QB isn’t necessarily the best QB. Somehow other teams are able to make do without a QB drafted in the top 3, and if Douglas moves down he might be able to again double-up in round 1 & more (enough ammo to trade up if needed). 

There are other players to evaluate and if Wilson is so horrible they don’t know what it is they have, then it can easily cost more than 5-10 slots in a single draft. Either because they’re not identifying just how good their wepponz actually are, or by overestimating them and heading into the next season thinking it’s a better setting for the next rookie than it really is. 

It doesn’t exist in a vacuum where all there is to know are draft chart points. JMO.

I don’t want any part of a first round QB until the team around him is strong (like the Jets roster in 2009)

[Hal N of Provo]

@Jetsfan80

other thread wasn’t a callout thread.
 

Just pointing out players develop and showed an example of the player some listed as Zach’s potential ceiling predraft.
 

I think it’s a real discussion only since you are willing to admit Zach has positive traits along with what you don’t like.  The guy was picked second, that should not surprise anyone.  Even busts had something someone saw in them. 
 

Nobody knows the end and I get why you see what you see.   I think that rookie film of Rodgers is compelling.  I see potential for Zach to be a really good QB.  

I hit reply to the other thread but it was locked while typing.  I was not trying to get you out of context or be overly negative to you jetsfan80.  

[IndianaJet]

On 12/26/2021 at 8:23 PM, doitny said:

2:05 mark

that guy got knocked down. his helmet wasnt there when Zach threw it.

 

That's the one play that gives me hope.

If this were the "Same Ole Jets" that crazy bounce off the helmet would have been intercepted.  However this time the fluke play that only seems to happen to the Jets fell harmlessly to the turf.

Baby steps......

[heymangold]

13 hours ago, jetstream23 said:

Didn’t Smith drop a perfectly thrown pass from Wilson? I recall a really nice ball thrown on time right into Smith’s hands that he dropped.

Yeah it woulda been for around 15 I think too.  

[Spoot-Face]

11 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Indeed I did.  Because he was excellent in that role.  

So it's kinda weird to see you bring up those stats in defense of Allen when comparing his rookie season to Wilson, when originally you scoffed at the idea that it made him a good QB.

[Jetsfan80]

1 hour ago, Spoot-Face said:

So it's kinda weird to see you bring up those stats in defense of Allen when comparing his rookie season to Wilson, when originally you scoffed at the idea that it made him a good QB.

I'm saying that even when Allen was at his worst (his first 2 seasons), he at least had elite athleticism to turn to.  So his defenders at least had that going for him.  For his first 2 years, he was an exciting player when he wasn't throwing the ball.

Wilson sucks at throwing the ball AND he's not going to get away with the kind of running he did against Jacksonville against most teams.  He's not an elite athlete at this level.  So the upside just isn't there for him unless he makes the kinds of improvements Allen made with his decision-making and accuracy; improvements that are extremely rare in this league.

People held out hope for Darnold because of Allen and it didn't work out.  Just like it won't work out for every other young QB who played as poorly as Allen/Darnold/Wilson did out of the gates.

[Dunnie]

25 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

I'm saying that even when Allen was at his worst (his first 2 seasons), he at least had elite athleticism to turn to.  So his defenders at least had that going for him.  For his first 2 years, he was an exciting player when he wasn't throwing the ball.

Wilson sucks at throwing the ball AND he's not going to get away with the kind of running he did against Jacksonville against most teams.  He's not an elite athlete at this level.  So the upside just isn't there for him unless he makes the kinds of improvements Allen made with his decision-making and accuracy; improvements that are extremely rare in this league.

People held out hope for Darnold because of Allen and it didn't work out.  Just like it won't work out for every other young QB who played as poorly as Allen/Darnold/Wilson did out of the gates.

Fake News :

 

Yeah .. these guys shoulda been outta the league after their glorious rookie years.

Terry Bradshaw

Peyton Manning

John Elway

Troy Aikman

Steve Young

 

 

 

 

[FidelioJet]

15 hours ago, Barry McCockinner said:

Becoming a franchise QB is an outlier period. Most QBs drafted are busts.

Of course it is the exception. Doesn't mean you give up after 9 games, especially if the QB is showing meaningful improvement.

This....Great post!

There are like 10 true franchise QB's in the league - spread over 15 years or so of drafts.   Each one of them went about getting there in different ways.

Some sat for a couple of years, some sat for 1 year, some sucked their 1st year, some sucked their first two, some came out of the gate strong, some evolved slowly over years, some early draft picks and some late...and there are PLENTY of failures that came out strong and went on to be disasters...

So yes, the odds of ZW becoming a true Super Bowl MVP type franchise QB are small...I think everyone will acknowledge that - but no smaller than anyone else's with his talent level.

He clearly has the natural talent and has shown substantial progress over the course of this season, that is undeniable...but he still has a LONG way to go and that is undeniable as well.

[defensedoesntgetyoulaid]

1 hour ago, Jetsfan80 said:

I'm saying that even when Allen was at his worst (his first 2 seasons), he at least had elite athleticism to turn to.  So his defenders at least had that going for him.  For his first 2 years, he was an exciting player when he wasn't throwing the ball.

Wilson sucks at throwing the ball AND he's not going to get away with the kind of running he did against Jacksonville against most teams.  He's not an elite athlete at this level.  So the upside just isn't there for him unless he makes the kinds of improvements Allen made with his decision-making and accuracy; improvements that are extremely rare in this league.

People held out hope for Darnold because of Allen and it didn't work out.  Just like it won't work out for every other young QB who played as poorly as Allen/Darnold/Wilson did out of the gates.

I disagree that Allen sucked his first 2 years. First year, sure, overall. But he had a lot of wow moments as well (on a truly awful offense). This play when he came back from his elbow injury against Jax still blows my mind. 3 guys hitting him at once and he flicks it from his own 20 to their 40

 

There were enough moments like that to make me believe if he had more talent around him and obviously more experience that he could be a great one.

I haven't watched Wilson play in a while so I don't know how many of these moments he's had. I did see his TD run from Sunday though and it was great

 

[Spoot-Face]

On 12/26/2021 at 10:18 PM, Jetsfan80 said:

You whine about me in every thread.  Maybe put me on ignore or find an alternative topic to discuss other than peeing in the pool from time to time.  I’m at least entertaining.

Hey, that was a great topic of discussion and I'm proud to have been a part of it!

[DetroitRed]

Chris Simms tripling down after Sunday 

 

https://jetsxfactor.com/2021/12/28/former-nfl-qb-is-more-impressed-with-zach-wilson-than-trevor-lawrence/

[Spoot-Face]

On 12/27/2021 at 12:11 AM, Sperm Edwards said:

I get it, you didn’t want the Jets to draft him instead of Fields - who also stinks himself, mind you - but you’re being more than a little ridiculous throughout this thread.

It was thrilling watching White and his 1 game + 1 drive career, but no one seriously believes those exact same results would’ve ensued if White attempted only half the passes, further handicapped by not having Moore & Carter starting, whose presence further opened up those 20 throws underneath to Carter & Johnson. 

The team’s #4 and #5 receivers were #1 and #2 today, and the team just runs different plays under those circumstances, as anyone would expect. It’s one thing to whine over not having elite wepponz; it’s another when the only two NFL-level downfield receivers are Berrios & Cole (neither exactly running 20+ yard routes as some matter of routine).

With the team’s top 3 WRs out, he had 193 yards and 2 TDs on 26 dropbacks, not counting a couple obvious drops that weren’t reflections on the one throwing it.

I take for granted a QB isn’t going to have as many passing yards when the team gains 270 yards on the ground plus they lose 1 possession to a KOR TD plus another possession that began on a short field. He had 4 pass attempts until almost halfway through the 2nd quarter ffs, and that second offensive drive ended on a perfect strike his receiver just flat-out dropped.

No serious person is anointing him anything based on today, and on balance his rookie season has sucked, but overall today - including his yards with his feet, which do count - he was fine. Factoring everything, to come away from today’s game with literally nothing but criticism of a rookie QB is saying more about you than the player.

What I’m most concerned about at this stage with a rookie QB - particularly one who’s had a pretty lousy start to his career - is not just standing back there taking stupid sacks (nor the opposite: feeling pressure that isn’t there), and of course his ball placement. He was good on the former concern today. On the latter, one of them on that first attempt to Mims, I’ll assume was the throw, though with Mims you never know where he was actually expected to be; and there was another early dumpoff it looked like he just flat-out missed (though it’s also possible he thought Kroft would keep running and was just trying to lead him). If you’re going to go out of your way to note & count interceptable passes, the same goes for dropped passes & their yards & extended drives which you purposely ignore. Anyway, on the rest of his attempts, the placement on actual pass attempts was good, weak opponent notwithstanding. Never mind 91 rushing yards on 4 broken pass plays.

This is an odd game to wage a multi-front war over it like a Pats fan joining up to troll the fan base. He played fine. 

Sperm to @Jetsfan80:

[Jetsfan80]

2 minutes ago, Spoot-Face said:

Sperm to @Jetsfan80:

 

He wrote a lot of words to say "Wilson played OK."  Sick burn yo.  Even I said as much:  He didn't have a good nor a bad game.  He was fine, or OK.

What people are losing their minds about is me suggesting this isn't good news, since Wilson has only played about 7 good quarters his entire rookie season.  Unless his defenders are truly correct in saying a QB's rookie season is a "wash", then Wilson's performance against the Jaguars juxtaposed to his performance all season long isn't reason for celebration.

[Spoot-Face]

5 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

I'm saying that even when Allen was at his worst (his first 2 seasons), he at least had elite athleticism to turn to.  So his defenders at least had that going for him.  For his first 2 years, he was an exciting player when he wasn't throwing the ball.

Wilson sucks at throwing the ball AND he's not going to get away with the kind of running he did against Jacksonville against most teams.  He's not an elite athlete at this level.  So the upside just isn't there for him unless he makes the kinds of improvements Allen made with his decision-making and accuracy; improvements that are extremely rare in this league.

People held out hope for Darnold because of Allen and it didn't work out.  Just like it won't work out for every other young QB who played as poorly as Allen/Darnold/Wilson did out of the gates.

I mean, I'm not a Wilson defender. In fact, I'm probably closer to believing he's a bust than believing he's going to be good. But it's funny to see you changing your tune a bit about Allen to fit your view on Wilson.

80 to Allen defenders year 1:

"lolololol, enjoy your running back, losers."

80 to Wilson defenders comparing his year 1 stats to Allen:

"ARE YOU DISCOUNTING ALLEN'S SUPREME RUNNING ABILITY??!!"

Nobody here wants Wilson to turn into a run first QB. Some just want to acknowledge the positives signs he showed on Sunday, which includes using his legs to take what the defense gives him, rather than force a dumb pass or stand back and take a sack, albeit against a weak opponent. Only a few fringe posters believe Sunday was irrefutable evidence that Wilson is going to be great. Most just want to give credit where credit is due, something that you refuse to do.

[slimjasi]

20 hours ago, Barry McCockinner said:

Becoming a franchise QB is an outlier period. Most QBs drafted are busts.

Of course it is the exception. Doesn't mean you give up after 9 games, especially if the QB is showing meaningful improvement.

Very well put

[Jetsfan80]

1 minute ago, Spoot-Face said:

I mean, I'm not a Wilson defender. In fact, I'm probably closer to believing he's a bust than believing he's going to be good. But it's funny to see you changing your tune a bit about Allen to fit your view on Wilson.

80 to Allen defenders year 1:

"lolololol, enjoy your running back, losers."

80 to Wilson defenders comparing his year 1 stats to Allen:

"ARE YOU DISCOUNTING ALLEN'S SUPREME RUNNING ABILITY??!!"

Nobody here wants Wilson to turn into a run first QB. Some just want to acknowledge the positives signs he showed on Sunday, which includes using his legs to take what the defense gives him, rather than force a dumb pass or stand back and take a sack, albeit against a weak opponent. Only a few fringe posters believe Sunday was irrefutable evidence that Wilson is going to be great. Most just want to give credit where credit is due, something that you refuse to do.

 

Literally the only lesson to be learned from Allen was that leaning on a guy with elite athleticism can be fruitful even if the QB offers little else.

There's no other lessons to learn about that.  Josh Allen stands alone as the only young QB in NFL history to suck for 6 years in the accuracy department (college + pros) and then fix it in his 3rd year in the league.  People who want to believe that Allen provides a lesson about any other QB are deluding themselves.  

That's the point of all this.  People who perpetually want to rub my nose in Allen also were hoping to do with Darnold and it didn't work out, because Darnold is not Allen.  Neither is Wilson.  And its very unlikely we'll ever see another Allen again.  

[slimjasi]

7 minutes ago, Spoot-Face said:

I mean, I'm not a Wilson defender. In fact, I'm probably closer to believing he's a bust than believing he's going to be good. But it's funny to see you changing your tune a bit about Allen to fit your view on Wilson.

80 to Allen defenders year 1:

"lolololol, enjoy your running back, losers."

80 to Wilson defenders comparing his year 1 stats to Allen:

"ARE YOU DISCOUNTING ALLEN'S SUPREME RUNNING ABILITY??!!"

Nobody here wants Wilson to turn into a run first QB. Some just want to acknowledge the positives signs he showed on Sunday, which includes using his legs to take what the defense gives him, rather than force a dumb pass or stand back and take a sack, albeit against a weak opponent. Only a few fringe posters believe Sunday was irrefutable evidence that Wilson is going to be great. Most just want to give credit where credit is due, something that you refuse to do.

The impressive thing about that run was that he should have been sacked. It was also timely for this place because you had people on here last week saying that Wilson wasn't even athletic enough to consistently get out of the pocket. 

[Sperm Edwards]

1 hour ago, Spoot-Face said:

Sperm to @Jetsfan80:

Meh 80 is a big boy. I doubt he took any of that deeply personally, nor should he. There have been games Wilson looked truly awful and you weren’t going to catch me defending him with silver linings and excuses for all his ridiculous short passes to nobody. 

I don’t have anything for or against Wilson beyond him being on the Jets, and since they’ve already invested heavily into him he’s not leaving soon. I wasn’t pushing for them to draft him nor to stay away from him, since I’d only bothered to watch one game of his after the fact and it wasn’t nearly as bad as I’d heard or thought it was based on stats. In hindsight I think it'd have been better if he wasn't starting week 1, but have never subscribed to the permanently ruined cliches that are thrown around. Ultimately he'll be what he'll be, but he had some bad habits they should've worked out first.

He’s looked mostly bad in 2021 but he wasn’t bad on Sunday. Just that not much passing down the field was asked with so many receivers out, the ground game working so well, and frankly barely having the ball in the first half.

So the volume of whining about Wilson, on the heels of that game, seemed disproportionately misplaced. It didn't erase all his prior bad games, doesn't mean he's now on the path for greatness, and it doesn't have to.

It was just nice seeing the Jets win a football game.

[Peace Frog]

7 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Blahblahblah

So the volume of whining about Wilson, on the heels of that game, seemed disproportionately misplaced.

Blahblahblah

Awesome post.  Diet Zero Pepsi Mod of the Week work right there.

[Peace Frog]

34 minutes ago, Spoot-Face said:

I mean, I'm not a Wilson defender. In fact, I'm probably closer to believing he's a bust than believing he's going to be good. But it's funny to see you changing your tune a bit about Allen to fit your view on Wilson.

80 to Allen defenders year 1:

"lolololol, enjoy your running back, losers."

80 to Wilson defenders comparing his year 1 stats to Allen:

"ARE YOU DISCOUNTING ALLEN'S SUPREME RUNNING ABILITY??!!"

Nobody here wants Wilson to turn into a run first QB. Some just want to acknowledge the positives signs he showed on Sunday, which includes using his legs to take what the defense gives him, rather than force a dumb pass or stand back and take a sack, albeit against a weak opponent. Only a few fringe posters believe Sunday was irrefutable evidence that Wilson is going to be great. Most just want to give credit where credit is due, something that you refuse to do.

Well.  There you go.  Hmmmpf.  

[T0mShane]

26 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

The impressive thing about that run was that he should have been sacked. It was also timely for this place because you had people on here last week saying that Wilson wasn't even athletic enough to consistently get out of the pocket. 

Three different Jaguars players pulled up on Wilson’s jog down the sideline.

[slimjasi]

4 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Three different Jaguars players pulled up on Wilson’s jog down the sideline.

Longest run by any QB in franchise history, friend  

[T0mShane]

Just now, slimjasi said:

Longest run by any QB in franchise history, friend  

*Jog

[Jetsfan80]

1 minute ago, slimjasi said:

Longest run by any QB in franchise history, friend  

Says more about the franchise's history and our opponent on Sunday than it says about Zach Wilson.  

[ZachEY]

On 12/27/2021 at 12:54 AM, Patriot Killa said:

We experienced the same Darnold rookie season on the same board. Darnold couldn’t of done what Wilson just did. Not the decisions he made, not the big runs, not 26 points and not a W.

What in the world are you talking about. Darnold lost to Green Bay and at least half the board was anointing him a top 5 QB based on that performance.

[Jetsfan80]

1 minute ago, ZachEY said:

What in the world are you talking about. Darnold lost to Green Bay and at least half the board was anointing him a top 5 QB based on that performance.

With a weaker supporting cast, Darnold had two 300+ yard games and two 3-TD passing games in his rookie season.  Wilson has zero.  

[Peace Frog]

Longest TD run by HOF QB Steve Young was 49 yards.

Man, Zach is purely trash.  And a bust.  And sucks. Possibly the worst QB ever.

Am I doing this right?

[T0mShane]

1 minute ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Says more about the franchise's history and our opponent on Sunday than it says about Zach Wilson.  

Let’s see Wilson pull this sh*t with Devin White and Jordan Whitehead on Sunday. It’s gonna be pick-up sticks at midfield if Wilson thinks he’s running on a team that isn’t expressly mailing it in.

[Peace Frog]

Holy sh*t the double and triple and quadrupling down by this guy is pathetic.

We get it, you hate him.  

We get it, you hate him.

We get it, you hate the Quarterback of the New York Jets.

We get it.  

[T0mShane]

1 minute ago, Peace Frog said:

Longest TD run by HOF QB Steve Young was 49 yards.

Man, Zach is purely trash.  And a bust.  And sucks. Possibly the worst QB ever.

Am I doing this right?

Just you wait until that Australian guy posts his All-22 breakdown of Jaguars players pulling up on that run and boy won’t you be embarrassed. 

[Peace Frog]

1 minute ago, T0mShane said:

Just you wait until that Australian guy posts his All-22 breakdown of Jaguars players pulling up on that run and boy won’t you be embarrassed. 

Was that the same guy that feted the 3 pass masterpiece by Mac Jones?

[slimjasi]

15 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Says more about the franchise's history and our opponent on Sunday than it says about Zach Wilson.  

It says something about all of those things. 

[slimjasi]

8 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Let’s see Wilson pull this sh*t with Devin White and Jordan Whitehead on Sunday. It’s gonna be pick-up sticks at midfield if Wilson thinks he’s running on a team that isn’t expressly mailing it in.

You can't control who you play. If he didn't make that play and instead threw an incomplete pass or got sacked, you'd be killing him. Can't have it both ways. 

[slimjasi]

12 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

With a weaker supporting cast, Darnold had two 300+ yard games and two 3-TD passing games in his rookie season.  Wilson has zero.  

If the goal was to have the best rookie season, this would be a profound point.