Could Jets Have Legit Shot at Dalton Schultz?

[Peace Frog]

12 minutes ago, Paradis said:

Jets fans everywhere are far, far too enamoured with Schutlz. 

you guys love the idea far more than the player. 

If you could guarantee me McBride and Ruckertt I wouldn't have even started this godforsaken thread.

 

[David Harris]

6 minutes ago, nycdan said:

I like Berrios.  Agree on Q.  Not sure about A-Rob.  He really hasn't been a dominant WR in over 5 years.  Maybe it's CHI, maybe not.  I think he'll be asking for way more than he's worth though.  1-year prove-it deal? Sure.  Not giving him 3 years / $54M though.

 

$15M/year sounds very high for Schultz.  Kelce and Andrews are in the $14M range and nobody else should be beating that number.  $12.5M puts him in Hunter Henry / Jonnu Smith territory which feels closer.  Maybe a little more since it's a year later.  Call it $13M/year.

To get a WR worth a damn, you're paying a fair bit more than that.  Edge?  Way more.  OL?  Way more.  TE and Safety are two of the positions where you CAN get a game changer for far less than other positions.  All else being equal, draft the Edges, CBs and WRs, and trade for or sign the Safeties and TEs sounds more efficient than the other way around.

You may be right about Schultz not being a top talent, but if he's better than anything else we can get, and he's looking for near his market value, I think that given our extreme need, it's not a bad play.  I'm fine with another guy, as long as he's capable of being a productive part of our offense.  

Other than Njoku, who else is out there that could be our #1?  Ertz?  

 

Gesicki is an option if he doesn't get re-signed, maybe the turmoil in Miami hurts their chances, Gesicki is really another WR, not a good blocker.

Regarding wideouts I'd much rather have Godwin at $17 than Schulz at $13.  Even though Schulz isn't on Andrews or Kelce level it seems that whoever the newest top FA at a given position resets the market because all it takes is one team to have a need and some cap dollars.  Schulz is the best guy out there so maybe we do a tier 2 or 3 guy and then draft one.  To put that money in perspective, Carl Lawson (who was supposed to be a great edge) is getting $14 mill per year and Trey Hendrickson is getting about $15.  I don't want Schulz at that opportunity cost.

I'm not in love with this WR draft class, think the top guy this year would be WR 5 or 6 in last years class so it seems a sensible move to pay or trade for one given the surprisingly decent options available in Godwin, Ridley, Robinson...and again I like DJ Chark as well.

[nycdan]

10 minutes ago, Sonny Werblin said:

 

If the Jets sign a TE, it will be someone like OJ Howard or Hayden Hurst. An underachiever looking for an opportunity. 

Has anyone been paying attention to how JD operates? There will be no splashy signings. JD has three rules in free agency and they are: 1) Value, 2) Value and 3) Value. 

I think that's not really true.

Lawson and Davis were both big ticket FA signings last year.  Neither was made the highest paid player at their position or anything close, but they got $15M/year and $12.5/year respectively.   I think both were the biggest signings at their positions in FA last year as well.  Douglas will spend.  He's just not throwing truckloads of money at over-the-hill veterans like Macc did.  

[nycdan]

4 minutes ago, David Harris said:

Gesicki is an option if he doesn't get re-signed, maybe the turmoil in Miami hurts their chances, Gesicki is really another WR, not a good blocker.

Regarding wideouts I'd much rather have Godwin at $17 than Schulz at $13.  Even though Schulz isn't on Andrews or Kelce level it seems that whoever the newest top FA at a given position resets the market because all it takes is one team to have a need and some cap dollars.  Schulz is the best guy out there so maybe we do a tier 2 or 3 guy and then draft one.  To put that money in perspective, Carl Lawson (who was supposed to be a great edge) is getting $14 mill per year and Trey Hendrickson is getting about $15.  I don't want Schulz at that opportunity cost.

I'm not in love with this WR draft class, think the top guy this year would be WR 5 or 6 in last years class so it seems a sensible move to pay or trade for one given the surprisingly decent options available in Godwin, Ridley, Robinson...and again I like DJ Chark as well.

I want to go back in time and give HOU a washed up RB and a 2nd round pick for Hopkins.

[chirorob]

38 minutes ago, TheNuuFaaolaExperience said:

Signing Dalton Schultz is a Mike Maccagnan move. He is not a game breaker and is only attractive because he is light years better than our TE room combined. Draft TE early and in the mid rounds. 

I disagree.

He's 25.   He has played in 49 of 49 games the last 3 seasons, showing a durability the Jets desperately need.

He is not a game breaker, but he a smart player who gets open, and caught 150 passes the last 2 years, one without dak.

A rookie tight end is a 50/50 to be that good, and few tight ends do much as rookies.  If you want to help Zach next season, you need a reliable pass catcher for him.

Now, I'm all in favor of also drafting a TE and signing Schultz to allow for depth and actual 2 tight end sets.

[David Harris]

1 minute ago, nycdan said:

I want to go back in time and give HOU a washed up RB and a 2nd round pick for Hopkins.

Seriously.  wtf with that trade

[David Harris]

1 minute ago, chirorob said:

I disagree.

He's 25.   He has played in 49 of 49 games the last 3 seasons, showing a durability the Jets desperately need.

He is not a game breaker, but he a smart player who gets open, and caught 150 passes the last 2 years, one without dak.

A rookie tight end is a 50/50 to be that good, and few tight ends do much as rookies.  If you want to help Zach next season, you need a reliable pass catcher for him.

Now, I'm all in favor of also drafting a TE and signing Schultz to allow for depth and actual 2 tight end sets.

You're absolutely right but just at what price?  Would you rather have Schulz at $13 over Godwin at $17?

[Hal N of Provo]

18 minutes ago, Paradis said:

Jets fans everywhere are far, far too enamoured with Schutlz. 

you guys love the idea far more than the player. 

Rookies are usually a solution 2 seasons away.   It doesn’t need to be Schultz but I hope they are active in bringing weapons in during FA.   WR1 would be best.  

[BigRy56]

I have always thought that signing Schultz / Njoku and then adding McBride / Ruckert in round 2 or 3 was the best way to go. Hopefully we go down that path

[OtherwiseHappyinLife]

1 hour ago, Peace Frog said:

Interesting article on Dalton Schultz and whether Dallas can afford to keep him--Dallas is anywhere from $17 million to $24 million over the cap, with 21 players as FAs.  

If you look at OTC we look to be 5th in cap space heading into next year (but still with some work to do, as do the 4 ahead of us).  May be wishful thinking but not sure FAs are going to be flocking to Miami when FA hits because of all the noise.  Having said that, FL is a no income tax state and likely have a better roster than us--but Tua.  Chargers look to be an up and coming team, Herbert, nice weather but awful for taxes. Jaguars, another no income tax state and as big of a clown show as Miami but Lawrence.  Bengals are interesting team. SB roster, Burrow and Uzomah's hurt, but it's Ohio.  It's probably a pipe dream but do you think we'd have a realistic shot at this guy?  Would do wonders for Zach and mean we'd only need to dip once in the draft for a TE.  Still only 25 years old.  

1. Miami Dolphins: $66,167,360
2. Los Angeles Chargers: $62,400,267
3. Jacksonville Jaguars: $61,334,233
4. Cincinnati Bengals: $56,398,062
5. New York Jets: $47,649,012

https://www.dallasnews.com/sports/cowboys/2022/02/02/cowboys-would-love-to-keep-te-dalton-schultz-but-probably-can-no-longer-afford-him/

Dalton Schultz is coming off his best season. His career is on the rise.

That doesn’t mean it will continue here.

Schultz is among the 21 players on the Dallas Cowboys roster set to enter the free agent market. Difficult decisions lie ahead with a payroll that already swells anywhere from $17 million to $24 million over next season’s projected cap.

“We’re not going to be able to keep everybody,’’ executive vice president Stephen Jones said.

It will be tough to keep Schultz. Do the Cowboys want to retain their second leading receiver? Sure.

But the 25-year-old likely played his way out of the club’s price range.

Schultz had 78 receptions for 808 yards and eight touchdowns. Baltimore’s Mark Andrews and Kansas City’s Travis Kelce were the only tight ends in the NFL with more receptions. Andrews, Kelce and San Francisco’s George Kittle were the only players at his position with more yards.

That’s impressive company. And Schultz was at his best late, with 25 catches for 224 yards and four touchdowns in the final four games of the regular season. He led the Cowboys with seven receptions for 89 yards in the team’s playoff loss to San Francisco.

Kittle tops the salary list at the position with a contract that averages $15 million. Kelce, Philadelphia’s Dallas Goedert and Andrews are right behind him with deals that average from $14 million to $14.3 million. New England’s Hunter Henry and Jonnu Smith are tied for fifth with an average of $12.5 million.

The next tier of tight ends average from $8 to $10.5 million.

It’s reasonable to put Schultz between those two tiers or the back end of the first tier when projecting what he’ll command on the open market. That will likely be too rich for the organization’s blood.

A big chunk of production walks out the door if Schultz leaves. But, part of the evaluation for Dallas is how these numbers were amassed. Was Schultz the primary target, or was he the beneficiary of opponents determined to take the Cowboys wide receivers out of the mix? Is he a weapon defenses go into a game determined to take away, or part of the ancillary wave that they will live with the results? Are defensive coordinators content to have Dak Prescott dump the ball to Schultz underneath instead of finding Amari Cooper, CeeDee Lamb or Michael Gallup in space?

None of this is meant to diminish what Schultz accomplished in 2021. But, these are part of the internal discussions taking place in Dallas to put his offensive value in context.

Blake Jarwin is another factor in this decision. The Cowboys signed the tight end to a four-year, $22 million contract two seasons ago. He has a base salary of $4.5 million and a cap hit of $5.8 million in 2022.

A hip injury limited Jarwin to just eight games. He caught 11 passes for 96 yards and two touchdowns and is more of a vertical threat than Schultz. It would make more fiscal sense to keep him on the belief he’ll return to form, let Schultz walk and add another tight end in what should be a good draft for the position.

 

Nice analysis.  Appreciate the time on this.  Maybe the Cowboys can get Schultz back via the Franchise Tag but it's going to hard given their current situation.  

If he does break free, I can't see how the Jets won't make an aggressive play.

[Peace Frog]

Just now, OtherwiseHappyinLife said:

Nice analysis.  Appreciate the time on this.  Maybe the Cowboys can get Schultz back via the Franchise Tag but it's going to hard given their current situation.  

If he does break free, I can't see how the Jets won't make an aggressive play.

Yeah, I'm not expecting it but if JD makes a big time run at anyone, he's the guy.  

That Dak contract is an albatros.  And Zeke's.  

[chirorob]

5 minutes ago, David Harris said:

You're absolutely right but just at what price?  Would you rather have Schulz at $13 over Godwin at $17?

I dont know that he resets the market, although that can happen in FA.

I would give him 4-44 with 30 million guaranteed, and not think twice about it.

Godwin may go for over 17, even with the knee, it'll be interesting to see, as well as how his rehab is going.   Part of why I like Schultz is the fact he hasn't missed a game in 3 years.  That being said he could go to the Jets and pull a hamstring getting off the bus to play a preseason game. 

[nycdan]

4 minutes ago, David Harris said:

You're absolutely right but just at what price?  Would you rather have Schulz at $13 over Godwin at $17?

I think I might.  We really need 1 WR and we really need 2 TEs.  We already have experience at WR, just need a young, big guy to top it off.  Godwin is coming off an ACL, and to be honest, he wasn't really the top dog in TB.  I would take Mike Evans over Godwin 10 times out of 10.  So if we're trying to set up our #1 WR, we might be better off rolling the dice on someone at #10 who is more the ideal fit and coming in healthy. 

Godwin could come in here and be great, or he could be Kenny Golladay.  I think I'd rather risk $13M on Schutz than $17M (if it's even that low) for Godwin. 

But I'm completely guessing here and would be happy to be wrong.

[undertow]

55 minutes ago, TheNuuFaaolaExperience said:

Signing Dalton Schultz is a Mike Maccagnan move. He is not a game breaker and is only attractive because he is light years better than our TE room combined. Draft TE early and in the mid rounds. 

I agree Shultz is a good player but not a game changer I would prefer to sign Engram or Njoku and draft Rucker or Mcbride at 32.

[Long Island Leprechaun]

44 minutes ago, Peace Frog said:

While I would love that, you aren't guaranteed that either of those guys is a player.  I'd love to double dip at TE in the draft but then we'd be passing on other positions of need--so many holes.

With an established young TE, you know you have at least 1.  

You're correct and I should have been clear that I'm not advocating for two TE's in the draft. I'd much rather get one in FA (or two?) and take a later round TE in the draft. That's been my position from the get-go.

[RoadFan]

1 hour ago, TheNuuFaaolaExperience said:

Signing Dalton Schultz is a Mike Maccagnan move. He is not a game breaker and is only attractive because he is light years better than our TE room combined. Draft TE early and in the mid rounds. 

The issue is that ZW needs tight end help immediately.

It takes a few years for most of them to adjust to the NFL.   Possibly, TE is the most difficult transition for a college player?

[Peace Frog]

6 minutes ago, Long Island Leprechaun said:

You're correct and I should have been clear that I'm not advocating for two TE's in the draft. I'd much rather get one in FA (or two?) and take a later round TE in the draft. That's been my position from the get-go.

I will allow this.

Although I still love some of the TEs in rounds 2-3.  

[TheNuuFaaolaExperience]

29 minutes ago, RoadFan said:

The issue is that ZW needs tight end help immediately.

It takes a few years for most of them to adjust to the NFL.   Possibly, TE is the most difficult transition for a college player?

There are lower priced tight ends who are an immediate upgrade over our TE room who can help out Zach this year while the rookie TE develops. 

[Peace Frog]

Just now, TheNuuFaaolaExperience said:

There are lower priced tight ends who are an immediate upgrade over our TE room who can help out Zach this year while the rookie TE develops. 

To be fair, I don’t want just an “upgrade”. 

I want outstanding TEs. More than any other positions room. 

[TheNuuFaaolaExperience]

1 hour ago, David Harris said:

I agree.  I'd like Dalton Shultz as an upgrade but nowhere close to $15 mill.  I'd much rather have Njoku for $7-8 mill.

$15 mill per year players need to be game changers and Schulz is a limited pass catcher.

You really have to draft (or trade) for game changers.

I'd rather sign Njoku and another similar free agent for the price Shultz is commanding. I'd still draft a top TE with the hopes that he becomes the game changing TE that a young QB needs to develop. If the rookie TE is an immediate hit, we have the problem of having too many good TEs. Boo hoo to us. 

[TheNuuFaaolaExperience]

6 minutes ago, Peace Frog said:

To be fair, I don’t want just an “upgrade”. 

I want outstanding TEs. More than any other positions room. 

We agree on the outstanding TE part. I hope JD doubles down in the draft on TEs. You can find an outstanding TE on day two, and maybe three.  

Schultz doesn't move the needle enough to throw that type of money at him. I'd rather overpay Zach Ertz for one year while the rookies develop than commit to a four year deal with Schultz. 

[jamesr]

1 hour ago, nycdan said:

I think I might.  We really need 1 WR and we really need 2 TEs.  We already have experience at WR, just need a young, big guy to top it off.  Godwin is coming off an ACL, and to be honest, he wasn't really the top dog in TB.  I would take Mike Evans over Godwin 10 times out of 10.  So if we're trying to set up our #1 WR, we might be better off rolling the dice on someone at #10 who is more the ideal fit and coming in healthy. 

Godwin could come in here and be great, or he could be Kenny Golladay.  I think I'd rather risk $13M on Schutz than $17M (if it's even that low) for Godwin. 

But I'm completely guessing here and would be happy to be wrong.

My worry with Godwin and the timing of his injury is that it will likely mean he misses quite a bit of the offseason rehabbing.

We need someone who can be full on from Day 1 of camp, working with Zach to get their timing and chemistry as far as along as possible. Not someone who might be ready by preseason and they're still getting used to each other by mid season.

[Peace Frog]

5 minutes ago, TheNuuFaaolaExperience said:

We agree on the outstanding TE part. I hope JD doubles down in the draft on TEs. You can find an outstanding TE on day two, and maybe three.  

Schultz doesn't move the needle enough to throw that type of money at him. I'd rather overpay Zach Ertz for one year while the rookies develop than commit to a four year deal with Schultz. 

Yeah no I’m tired of 1 year deals on guys getting on the back 9 of their careers.  Give me a 25 year old TE that Zach can develop with and play together for years. And a day 2 draft pick.  Let’s start to build a team that can play together for 4-5-6 years. Not retreads year to year. 

We have $$ to spend, let’s spend some of it. 

[Joe W. Namath]

I really cant take these threads anymore.  

Joe D has accumulated draft picks so he can draft his own players and not break the bank for free agents!!!!!!!!!

We have numerous picks and will spend one on a tight end who will be better then slightly above JAG status guys like Schultz.

[TheNuuFaaolaExperience]

3 minutes ago, Peace Frog said:

Yeah no I’m tired of 1 year deals on guys getting on the back 9 of their careers.  Give me a 25 year old TE that Zach can develop with and play together for years. And a day 2 draft pick.  Let’s start to build a team that can play together for 4-5-6 years. Not retreads year to year. 

We have $$ to spend, let’s spend some of it. 

I'll pass on this Mike Maccagnan signing. This is exactly the type of signing that gives us more of the same. Paying Travis Kelce money to a TE who is not even in the same stratosphere as Kelce is a shortsighted signing that will continue the current flight pattern. 

[Peace Frog]

5 minutes ago, TheNuuFaaolaExperience said:

I'll pass on this Mike Maccagnan signing. This is exactly the type of signing that gives us more of the same. Paying Travis Kelce money to a TE who is not even in the same stratosphere as Kelce is a shortsighted signing that will continue the current flight pattern. 

Let’s see what his asking price is. If Kelce were a FA he’d command $25 million a year. It’s all timing. 

[Paradis]

2 hours ago, OtherwiseHappyinLife said:

Please enlighten us.  

Sure; he’s not that good. 

[Wit]

We aren’t spending money on a TE. It’s possible we spend some money on some LBers and safety’s. We may trade for a WR, but that’s about it. What about JDs history makes you think he will overspend on any player??

[More Cowbell]

They won't let him go. 

[Peace Frog]

4 minutes ago, Paradis said:

Sure; he’s not that good. 

80 catches 800 yards 8 TDs with a bunch of other options in Dallas? 

He’s a top 5 TE in the league at 25 years old. If that’s “not good” I want not good.  

 

[Peace Frog]

3 minutes ago, More Cowbell said:

They won't let him go. 

Probably not. I’ve admitted I’m an a-hole for making this thread AND I’ve reported myself. 

[TheNuuFaaolaExperience]

3 minutes ago, Wit said:

We aren’t spending money on a TE. It’s possible we spend some money on some LBers and safety’s. We may trade for a WR, but that’s about it. What about JDs history makes you think he will overspend on any player??

I don't think people have been paying attention since JD has arrived. I'll be shocked if we sign any of the top tier free agents. I do expect to see more free agent signings than we had in 2021, but value will always be kept in mind with anyone JD signs. 

[Paradis]

20 hours ago, Peace Frog said:

80 catches 800 yards 8 TDs with a bunch of other options in Dallas? 

He’s a top 5 TE in the league at 25 years old. If that’s “not good” I want not good.  

 

Yes, but has anyone in here actually watched him play? You've already seen his ceiling.... He's nothing to lock $40 million in with $22+ in guarantees. 

It's more a matter the price tag being laughable than anything. 2 years, 16 million including incentives, 8 mill guaranteed, sure. Joe Douglas will not take that bait. they'll sign TE2 and draft TE1.... Schultz is destined for a Kahn contract in Jacksonville - mark it down. 
 

Also this contrarian view is worth a read.

https://sportdfw.com/2022/01/20/dallas-cowboys-free-agency-dalton-schultz-worth/

 

[TheNuuFaaolaExperience]

10 minutes ago, Peace Frog said:

80 catches 800 yards 8 TDs with a bunch of other options in Dallas? 

He’s a top 5 TE in the league at 25 years old. If that’s “not good” I want not good.  

 

The "bunch of other options" part is why he was so productive. They have a tandem of Zeke and Pollard at RB with Lamb, Cooper, and Gallup at WR. Do you think Schultz has 80 catches with 800 yards on the Jets?

[Paradis]

2 hours ago, Hal N of Provo said:

Rookies are usually a solution 2 seasons away.   It doesn’t need to be Schultz but I hope they are active in bringing weapons in during FA.   WR1 would be best.  

Agreed, we need to infuse some more reliability at playmaker. Bringing in a TE works, but hard to see us overpaying Schultz as the solution. For many reasons. Uzomah, Everett - guys like that, half the cost, all the production.