Generational Trevor?

[batman10023]

10 minutes ago, bitonti said:

this is like saying Woody has no involvement with J&J

having a metric f-ton of the preferred stock is an involvement

No you guys are right Zach Wilson made it to 2 overall because of his stunning loss against Coastal Carolina and the combine workouts he didn't do that 40 he never ran and the 2 torn labrums.

it's not that he's a bad prospect he's just closer to a mid 1st than a top 3 guy because of injuries. but he was over inflated into this amazing prospect - based on what? the knowledge the Jets were going to draft him 5 months before the draft.  

and even though the Jets have won two straight it's not really because of Zach. He's managing the game which is better than not managing but it's still not what we expected out of 2 overall 

he needs to complete more than 55 percent of passes and play more games before we say he's better than Trevor 

if that makes me the clown so be it there are 32 NFL gms i'm not sure any of them would take Zach over Trevor right now, straight up 

not even JD 

 

 

 

he doesn't own any Preferred Stock of J&J.   However he does own 200MM worth of JNJ stock so about 5% of his net worth.

However, Zach's uncle doesn't own any Jetblue stock so your comparison is wrong (again).

we never had a chance at Trevor.  I do agree that probably most would take Trevor.

The 4th quarter of the Pitt game was taking charge.  do you not agree?

you are just plain wrong that they took Zach because his uncle started JetBlue.

should he have been taken 2nd?  who knows that answer.  i will defer to you on that topic which you know more about than me.  but the other stuff, you are clueless.

 

[Jet Nut]

4 hours ago, bitonti said:

strong words from the dude who thought DBrick was overpaid and overrated

if you want to quote the conspiracy theory get it right. JetBlue, who are a major sponsor of the Jets, didn't have to say or do anything to boost Wilson's stock. It was always in the NYJ interest to draft this player and keep their biggest sponsor besides MetLife happy. 

I'm still not entirely sure what Wilson did on the field in 2020 to justify going 2 overall. It wasn't even like they entertained other options. The Wilson pick came from ownership in like January and everyone in the world knew that was going to be the pick. Wilson's signature win was what? USC as a soph?

here we are singing the praises of 55 percent, which are Sanchizian completion levels. Red-Yellow-Green era stuff 

Was Wilson really a better prospect than Lawrence? No. but some in this thread want to believe that. Lawrence is better than Wilson right now.

Trey Lance? ok sure. But I'm not sure he's better than Justin Fields tbh. We will find out when they play h2h this year.  Wilson never had the attributes to survive life in the league. Great arm, maybe some speed questionable durability 

having your uncle be the team's huge sponsor is what lawyers call a conflict of interest, that's not a conspiracy it's a fact of life 

 Youre not sure what a college prospect did to get himself drafted #2 overall?  You didn’t see his games?  His throws?  His leadership?  His arm?  Physical tools?  you only judge by who they beat?  You judge and rank QBs by more than signature wins.  He was judged by most as a better prospect than Fields by his on field play and tools.  And still is.  Stevie Wonder can see ZW is playing better than Fields this year and did last season.  But you imagine that they drafted a player because of Jet Blue, ignoring the whole season leading into that draft.  Like the Jets pulled him out of thin air.  

 

[Biggs]

3 hours ago, bitonti said:

strong words from the dude who thought DBrick was overpaid and overrated

if you want to quote the conspiracy theory get it right. JetBlue, who are a major sponsor of the Jets, didn't have to say or do anything to boost Wilson's stock. It was always in the NYJ interest to draft this player and keep their biggest sponsor besides MetLife happy. 

I'm still not entirely sure what Wilson did on the field in 2020 to justify going 2 overall. It wasn't even like they entertained other options. The Wilson pick came from ownership in like January and everyone in the world knew that was going to be the pick. Wilson's signature win was what? USC as a soph?

here we are singing the praises of 55 percent, which are Sanchizian completion levels. Red-Yellow-Green era stuff 

Was Wilson really a better prospect than Lawrence? No. but some in this thread want to believe that. Lawrence is better than Wilson right now.

Trey Lance? ok sure. But I'm not sure he's better than Justin Fields tbh. We will find out when they play h2h this year.  Wilson never had the attributes to survive life in the league. Great arm, maybe some speed questionable durability 

having your uncle be the team's huge sponsor is what lawyers call a conflict of interest, that's not a conspiracy it's a fact of life 

This is a  bat sh*t crazy conspiracy theory that the Jets actually had a well thought out plan for why they drafted Zach.   

While it's hard to believe it, if you're actually on to something, I would tend to be much more optimistic about Zach.  At least this would be the first time in several decades that the NY Jets drafted a QB for a well thought out reason.  

[nycdan]

You know that moment when you're watching a bad movie and you KNOW you should turn the channel and watch anything else, but  you just can't get over the possibility that you might miss something entertaining.

That's me.  right now.

[Sperm Edwards]

2 hours ago, batman10023 said:

the uncle has zero involvement with Jetblue.  He was fired as CEO and left the board over a decade prior to the draft.

but-but-but...

[k-met57]

1 hour ago, bitonti said:

this is like saying Woody has no involvement with J&J

having a metric f-ton of the preferred stock is an involvement

No you guys are right Zach Wilson made it to 2 overall because of his stunning loss against Coastal Carolina and the combine workouts he didn't do that 40 he never ran and the 2 torn labrums.

it's not that he's a bad prospect he's just closer to a mid 1st than a top 3 guy because of injuries. but he was over inflated into this amazing prospect - based on what? the knowledge the Jets were going to draft him 5 months before the draft.  

and even though the Jets have won two straight it's not really because of Zach. He's managing the game which is better than not managing but it's still not what we expected out of 2 overall 

he needs to complete more than 55 percent of passes and play more games before we say he's better than Trevor 

if that makes me the clown so be it there are 32 NFL gms i'm not sure any of them would take Zach over Trevor right now, straight up 

not even JD 

 

 

 

jesus, i thought you were kidding. tin foil hat much?

you must not have any clue about the draft, if you did you would know that Zach wilson was regarded as the second best QB in this draft by basically everyone. but maybe everyone was in on the conspiracy....

[Sperm Edwards]

1 hour ago, batman10023 said:

he doesn't own any Preferred Stock of J&J.   However he does own 200MM worth of JNJ stock so about 5% of his net worth.

However, Zach's uncle doesn't own any Jetblue stock so your comparison is wrong (again).

we never had a chance at Trevor.  I do agree that probably most would take Trevor.

The 4th quarter of the Pitt game was taking charge.  do you not agree?

you are just plain wrong that they took Zach because his uncle started JetBlue.

should he have been taken 2nd?  who knows that answer.  i will defer to you on that topic which you know more about than me.  but the other stuff, you are clueless.

 

The funny thing is if there was any JetBlue connection dictating the Jets' actions - things done to appease JetBlue as a sponsor - it'd be to stay away from Zach Wilson altogether. The last thing they'd do is draft & coddle him to have the nephew of their cast-out, former CEO as the face of the franchise they sponsor.

[SickJetFan]

2 hours ago, batman10023 said:

the uncle has zero involvement with Jetblue.  He was fired as CEO and left the board over a decade prior to the draft.

https://crankyflier.com/2022/04/01/breeze-to-buy-jetblue-restore-neeleman-to-power/

[SickJetFan]

bit is right there is most def an obvious conflict of interest if nothing more than FU money haggling with FU money, fans, coaches in middle.  Altho, i think it only becomes an issue if

1. Zach bombs and you have to sit him,  JD and Coaching staff pays for the failure....ghosts will emerge from the closet

2. Zach next contract could get sticky

but if Zach succeeds then who cares.

[slimjasi]

2 hours ago, bitonti said:

 

No you guys are right Zach Wilson made it to 2 overall because of his stunning loss against Coastal Carolina and the combine workouts he didn't do that 40 he never ran and the 2 torn labrums.

 

 

 

Your argument would make more sense if the 49ers weren't praying like hell that Wilson would fall to them. 

According to Charley Casserly, 23 NFL GMs he surveyed before the draft had Lawrence #1 and Wilson #2, FYI. He did the same thing for the 2018 draft where most GMs had Darnold as their top guy. Zach Wilson rose to #2 overall because he has absurd arm talent and had put a lot of NFL caliber throws on tape at BYU. There were certainly guys that didn't like him and he was certainly a late riser, but was also widely regarded as the #2 QB prospect by the time April rolled around. And I listened to basically everything anybody had to say about the QBs leading up to that draft. You are wrong here. 

 

[Sperm Edwards]

1 hour ago, Jet Nut said:

 Youre not sure what a college prospect did to get himself drafted #2 overall?  You didn’t see his games?  His throws?  His leadership?  His arm?  Physical tools?  you only judge by who they beat?  You judge and rank QBs by more than signature wins.  He was judged by most as a better prospect than Fields by his on field play and tools.  And still is.  Stevie Wonder can see ZW is playing better than Fields this year and did last season.  But you imagine that they drafted a player because of Jet Blue, ignoring the whole season leading into that draft.  Like the Jets pulled him out of thin air.  

 

Who'd Jared Goff beat to be the #1 pick -- Air Force? 2014 BYU? What about #2 pick Wentz while at North Dakota State? I didn't even know there was such a school until I just looked it up. 

Probably they had uncles that started up Delta & United Airlines, who then sponsored the Rams & Eagles to the tune of $20MM/year. 

FFS who'd Andrew Luck beat, for that matter? Andrew Luck -- the best-rated or "cleanest" (or whatever term they use) QB prospect at least since the start of the millennium. Seems every top 10 team he played was a Stanford loss. The closest looks like the Orange Bowl as a sophomore, and they won that because Tyrod Taylor & the whole VT offense decided to go on a siesta that night anyway. It's not a knock on Luck; he played who was on the schedule, and anyway football's not 1-on-22.

So ridiculous. 

[maury77]

On 10/10/2022 at 2:43 PM, GreenFish said:

Sticking to the 2021 QB draft:

Just finished watching Justin Fields. This is the 3rd game I've watched this season. The first two were a disaster I thought. This game though, he showed a lot of potential. I thought he played well. He got off to a slow start but he showed some life and was playing really well in the 2nd half. His accuracy is inconsistent.

I'm not buying the argument that Fields doesn't have anything to work with by the way. Montgomery, Mooney and Kmet are legit starters in this league. Montgomery is a dawg. Mooney is a better version of Berrios. They need help on the outside though. Pettis sucks. His supporting cast is not great but it's not awful.

I agree with a lot here, but I didn't think his accuracy was inconsistent against the Vikings. He was 15 of 21 (71%) and he had 3 brutal drops by Pettis and Mooney. 

[maury77]

On 10/11/2022 at 12:22 PM, nycdan said:

Baker! LOL

Allergic to a clean pocket.

But you completely misunderstand the graphic.  Zach doesn't operate from the cleanest pocket in the league (by far!); he operates best in the league when he HAS a clean pocket.

and operates worst in the league when he doesn't have a clean pocket according to that graphic. 

[FidelioJet]

Zach is already a better QB than Trever Lawrence.  Zach Wilson will be a better QB than Trevor Lawrence.

[Augustiniak]

1 hour ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Who'd Jared Goff beat to be the #1 pick -- Air Force? 2014 BYU? What about #2 pick Wentz while at North Dakota State? I didn't even know there was such a school until I just looked it up. 

Probably they had uncles that started up Delta & United Airlines, who then sponsored the Rams & Eagles to the tune of $20MM/year. 

FFS who'd Andrew Luck beat, for that matter? Andrew Luck -- the best-rated or "cleanest" (or whatever term they use) QB prospect at least since the start of the millennium. Seems every top 10 team he played was a Stanford loss. The closest looks like the Orange Bowl as a sophomore, and they won that because Tyrod Taylor & the whole VT offense decided to go on a siesta that night anyway. It's not a knock on Luck; he played who was on the schedule, and anyway football's not 1-on-22.

So ridiculous. 

Luck was much more of a legit generational qb prospect than TL and Peyton was more so than both.

It’s real difficult to view TL as a generational prospect when it’s not even clear he’s the best qb in his draft class, as ZW is suddenly giving him a run for his money.  Plus there’s 3 qbs in the 2020 class who are clearly better than him, burrow, Herbert and hurts.  

[GreenFish]

21 minutes ago, maury77 said:

I agree with a lot here, but I didn't think his accuracy was inconsistent against the Vikings. He was 15 of 21 (71%) and he had 3 brutal drops by Pettis and Mooney. 

Yea. He looked good against the Vikings. Could be a turning point.

Curious to watch him tonight.

They need to find a replacement for Pettis. That dude sucks.

[Bowles Movement]

6 hours ago, bitonti said:

your posts are super insightful 

 

His content is similar to yours, just less verbose.

[Bowles Movement]

2 hours ago, k-met57 said:

jesus, i thought you were kidding. tin foil hat much?

you must not have any clue about the draft, if you did you would know that Zach wilson was regarded as the second best QB in this draft by basically everyone. but maybe everyone was in on the conspiracy....

I cant believe he thinks Joe Douglas and Robert Saleh would jeopardize  their first and possibly only chance to run an NFL franchise for some possible sponsorship.  And fwiw these sponsorships, while substantial are a tiny fraction of the value of an NFL franchise. Why would even Woody do something or draft someone that wasnt in the best interests of increasing his investments value?

His take is truly laughable.

[bitonti]

3 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

The funny thing is if there was any JetBlue connection dictating the Jets' actions - things done to appease JetBlue as a sponsor - it'd be to stay away from Zach Wilson altogether. The last thing they'd do is draft & coddle him to have the nephew of their cast-out, former CEO as the face of the franchise they sponsor.

This is ass backwards 

People want to be drafted as highly as possible because of money 

[bitonti]

57 minutes ago, Bowles Movement said:

I cant believe he thinks Joe Douglas and Robert Saleh would jeopardize  their first and possibly only chance to run an NFL franchise for some possible sponsorship.  And fwiw these sponsorships, while substantial are a tiny fraction of the value of an NFL franchise. Why would even Woody do something or draft someone that wasnt in the best interests of increasing his investments value?

His take is truly laughable.

It wasn't their decision. The decision to draft Zach came from ownership. Which is what happens when teams are drafting the face of the franchise 

[jvill 51]

21 minutes ago, bitonti said:

It wasn't their decision. The decision to draft Zach came from ownership. Which is what happens when teams are drafting the face of the franchise 

Yes, Robert Saleh, who had other suitors and was widely considered one of the top head coaching candidates available, took the job knowing that the QB who may well determine his future was being picked with the franchise’s most valuable asset because he was the nephew of the former CEO (who now runs a competing company) of the current airline sponsor of the team.

Logic checks out.

[kdels62]

8 minutes ago, jvill 51 said:

Yes, Robert Saleh, who had other suitors and was widely considered one of the top head coaching candidates available, took the job knowing that the QB who may well determine his future was being picked with the franchise’s most valuable asset because he was the nephew of the former CEO (who now runs a competing company) of the current airline sponsor of the team.

Logic checks out.

Bit lives in a post logic world.

[Bowles Movement]

35 minutes ago, bitonti said:

It wasn't their decision. The decision to draft Zach came from ownership. Which is what happens when teams are drafting the face of the franchise 

And you know this how?   You’re just making sh*t up now.   
 

 

[SickJetFan]

13 minutes ago, jvill 51 said:

Yes, Robert Saleh, who had other suitors and was widely considered one of the top head coaching candidates available, took the job knowing that the QB who may well determine his future was being picked with the franchise’s most valuable asset because he was the nephew of the former CEO (who now runs a competing company) of the current airline sponsor of the team.

Logic checks out.

https://crankyflier.com/2022/04/01/breeze-to-buy-jetblue-restore-neeleman-to-power/

[SickJetFan]

1 hour ago, Bowles Movement said:

I cant believe he thinks Joe Douglas and Robert Saleh would jeopardize  their first and possibly only chance to run an NFL franchise for some possible sponsorship.  And fwiw these sponsorships, while substantial are a tiny fraction of the value of an NFL franchise. Why would even Woody do something or draft someone that wasnt in the best interests of increasing his investments value?

His take is truly laughable.

 

Joe Douglas was already under contract before Zach was even a consideration so he would have no choice unless he quits

Saleh signed dotted line before the player was even drafted.

[jvill 51]

4 minutes ago, SickJetFan said:

https://crankyflier.com/2022/04/01/breeze-to-buy-jetblue-restore-neeleman-to-power/

[Jet Nut]

4 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Who'd Jared Goff beat to be the #1 pick -- Air Force? 2014 BYU? What about #2 pick Wentz while at North Dakota State? I didn't even know there was such a school until I just looked it up. 

Probably they had uncles that started up Delta & United Airlines, who then sponsored the Rams & Eagles to the tune of $20MM/year. 

FFS who'd Andrew Luck beat, for that matter? Andrew Luck -- the best-rated or "cleanest" (or whatever term they use) QB prospect at least since the start of the millennium. Seems every top 10 team he played was a Stanford loss. The closest looks like the Orange Bowl as a sophomore, and they won that because Tyrod Taylor & the whole VT offense decided to go on a siesta that night anyway. It's not a knock on Luck; he played who was on the schedule, and anyway football's not 1-on-22.

So ridiculous. 

Here’s what I don’t understand, maybe I’m a dolt.  If his uncle and JetBlue wanted the tie in what did they get and what was the payoff?  Is Zach in JetBlue commercials?  No.  Is he a spokesperson?  No.  Anything?  No.  What did JetBlue do for Zach?  If rumors were true of the 49r having a huge interest in Zach, they kept him off a SB contender.  Nice of the uncle.  And doing JetBlue a favor what did the Jets in your dream world get?  They invested $35 mil on an inferior talent to protect a mil or something a year sponsor?  Smart business.  
Let’s face it, it was nonsense last year and still is nonsense a year later.  Except now he’s making it sound like Zach wasn’t the #2 QB prospect on any listing, never mind most rankings 

[Jet Nut]

47 minutes ago, bitonti said:

This is ass backwards 

People want to be drafted as highly as possible because of money 

But Zach doesn’t need the money.  Haven’t you heard his uncle is rich, therefore he is.  Doesn’t even need to work.  

[Jet Nut]

48 minutes ago, bitonti said:

It wasn't their decision. The decision to draft Zach came from ownership. Which is what happens when teams are drafting the face of the franchise 

Link or are you taking credit for this nonsense

[SickJetFan]

7 minutes ago, jvill 51 said:

i see was fake news - doesnt mean he doesnt have FU money..guys working on starting his 2nd airline.

 

did he sell all his warrants, stock, interests in JetBlue

 

Who is Zach Wilson’s uncle David Neeleman? 

.@zachkapono1 21 years ago your uncle David founded JetBlue and welcomed you as baby nephew. So, you’ve always been family here at JetBlue and we’ve grown up together! We can’t wait for you to #TakeFlight with the @nyjets. We’ve got your ride to NYC ready! pic.twitter.com/OIwr51agUP

— JetBlue (@JetBlue) April 30, 2021

 

[Sperm Edwards]

37 minutes ago, Bowles Movement said:

And you know this how?   You’re just making sh*t up now.   
 

 

Now?

[Sperm Edwards]

2 hours ago, SickJetFan said:

i see was fake news - doesnt mean he doesnt have FU money..guys working on starting his 2nd airline.

 

did he sell all his warrants, stock, interests in JetBlue

 

Who is Zach Wilson’s uncle David Neeleman? 

.@zachkapono1 21 years ago your uncle David founded JetBlue and welcomed you as baby nephew. So, you’ve always been family here at JetBlue and we’ve grown up together! We can’t wait for you to #TakeFlight with the @nyjets. We’ve got your ride to NYC ready! pic.twitter.com/OIwr51agUP

— JetBlue (@JetBlue) April 30, 2021

 

Incredible that the company that sponsors the stadium name - for both teams that play there, mind you - would say this after the fact.

The only logical conclusion is they’re pulling the strings here. The Johnson-Mara-Tisch group know where their bread is buttered and couldn’t possibly find another team to bid on naming rights in the most populated metropolitan area in the country (and for more money at that, because there’s been no inflation since that year-2011 contract either).

A $16MM/yr annual payment for naming rights (excuse me; half of that because it’s split), which contractually gets paid whether they’re happy with the Jets or not, is all it takes to strong-arm control an NFL franchise from its billionaire owner who oversees a $200MM annual player payroll.

[Sperm Edwards]

3 hours ago, Augustiniak said:

Luck was much more of a legit generational qb prospect than TL and Peyton was more so than both.

It’s real difficult to view TL as a generational prospect when it’s not even clear he’s the best qb in his draft class, as ZW is suddenly giving him a run for his money.  Plus there’s 3 qbs in the 2020 class who are clearly better than him, burrow, Herbert and hurts.  

No doubt. I’m just pointing out it had nothing to do with beating any omg teams. Actually that was the point lol. 

[SickJetFan]

1 hour ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Incredible that the company that sponsors the stadium name - for both teams that play there, mind you - would say this after the fact.

The only logical conclusion is they’re pulling the strings here. The Johnson-Mara-Tisch group know where their bread is buttered and couldn’t possibly find another team to bid on naming rights in the most populated metropolitan area in the country (and for more money at that, because there’s been no inflation since that year-2011 contract either).

A $16MM/yr annual payment for naming rights (excuse me; half of that because it’s split), which contractually gets paid whether they’re happy with the Jets or not, is all it takes to strong-arm control an NFL franchise from its billionaire owner who oversees a $200MM annual player payroll.

why you people seem so incredulous that this is even possible naive.  Look around this kind of sh*t happens all the time

 

https://www.insider.com/college-admissions-scandal-full-list-people-sentenced-2019-9

granted not related but before this happened, if it was even suggested that it is happening people like you would arguing the virtues of the college administrators of the world.  Fact is only 1% of the 1% of this ever got caught and we will never know what made them pick Zach.

 

 

[Sperm Edwards]

1 hour ago, bitonti said:

This is ass backwards 

People want to be drafted as highly as possible because of money 

Not if they think they’ll make more long term with a better franchise drafting them.

e.g. Eli told the Bolts he’d re-enter the draft a year later if they took him ffs. That was when top draft pick contracts had no cap and were proportionally higher.