Get off Zach's Sac

[LSJF]

19 minutes ago, undertow said:

Analyzing a player who's the 2nd overall pick in the draft isn't bitching...you can be patient and wave the pom poms and the adults will discuss football regardless of your feelings. 

 Don’t I feel humiliated, how will I go on? Yeah the adults, In that case I’ll stay a kid

[sciond]

I thought you were talking to the MILF'S....

[PorP]

1 hour ago, T0mShane said:

This was inevitable. The beat writers all simultaneously turned on Zach, and that coincided with Saleh messing around with the backup situation. There’s blood in the water and they don’t want to be the last homer standing. I will say that it’s harsh to turn on Zach after the Packers—Broncos—Belichick stretch because Zach was always going to struggle in those games. If you thought he was promising after the Steelers and Miami game, you should still feel like he’s a promising young QB. If you were a Zach-skeptic, the good news is that you have more data showing you were correct. Bottom line, time grows short for Zach to turn it around. I do not think the beat guys unilaterally decided to pull their middling support for Zach by themselves. I think they think he’s got one foot in the grave

Tom. You never fail to surprise me.  I would say this post is about as perfect. 

The only part of it I would change is those beat writers smelled blood after the Pats performance (sure Zach sucked but the fan reaction really pushed this over the edge)  and the move further chumed the water. 

[hawk]

I have no interest in being on Zachs Sack, or anything to do with it, if I'm being frank.

[undertow]

5 minutes ago, LSJF said:

 Don’t I feel humiliated, how will I go on? Yeah the adults, In that case I’ll stay a kid

No one should be humiliated but yes some of you are acting like children. lol

[Smashmouth]

1 hour ago, LSJF said:

It's basic, if he fails we all fail, and what is the alternative, it's not so appealing...we all thought someone like Russell Wilson was gonna kill it with the Broncos...Or draft another youngster? Ehh ...He might be a bust, but I don't blame the Jets for being patient, for once it appears there is a plan...Maybe JD is looking in the just in case(he seems to be clever)

At some point obviously you want your team to win and the young QB to be great. Problem is now that we have a pretty solid team with good depth the QB still has not shown up. I don't think anyone wants Zach to fail so its more about the threads asking people to be positive when they are watching terrible QBing that's the problem . I see the flashes but flashes don't produce consistent QB play and you can't let flashes dictate who plays in the games which come down to winning or losing. With Really good QB play this team is probably 7-1

[St Louie Jet Fan]

10 minutes ago, Smashmouth said:

At some point obviously you want your team to win and the young QB to be great. Problem is now that we have a pretty solid team with good depth the QB still has not shown up. I don't think anyone wants Zach to fail so its more about the threads asking people to be positive when they are watching terrible QBing that's the problem . I see the flashes but flashes don't produce consistent QB play and you can't let flashes dictate who plays in the games which come down to winning or losing. With Really good QB play this team is probably 7-1

Exactly. At what point is it ok for the coaches to sacrifice the season to see what Zac might be?

[SuicidalSince98]

1 hour ago, derp said:

I think one of the things that confuses me is the idea that those pointing out criticisms of Wilson aren't rooting for his success.

I've been pretty openly concerned about his ability against pressure this season  - and all the way back to before he was drafted based on how good the BYU OL was. Early in the game Sunday, Wilson had a nice little play where he rolled away from pressure and hit Conklin. My reaction was excitement that maybe he was finding answers to the issues against pressure that I felt he'd had earlier in the season, not disappointment I might be wrong that he struggles against pressure and might not be able to overcome that. As the game went on, I was disappointed the issues against pressure cropped back up repeatedly, not excited I could come on here and complain about him.

I'm a fan of the New York Jets - I want the team to be good. Specifically, to win a Super Bowl while I'm still alive. This team has a lot of really nice pieces - the defense has been playing well, there are some nice pass catchers, the run game was awesome early in the season. The clearest path to that is Zach Wilson being a franchise QB. If he's not a guy who can have this team competing for Lombard trophies, then I want them to identify that quickly and move on.

Ultimately he plays the most important position in professional sports in the largest media market, and is playing for a team that's currently winning games instead of playing terribly in all facets like the last few years. He's going to be under the microscope. That's the nature of playing that position in general, that position for this franchise, and especially that position for this franchise when the team actually seems like they're headed into a window of being competitive.

Last year before he'd put any film out and when the rest of the team wasn't playing well it didn't matter quite as much. This year, that clock is ticking. 

The problem that people have made up their minds even though he is a raw player that needs more time to develop.
 

They can’t see anything positive because he isn’t exactly where they wish he was in his development.

Sunday was a great example. He did a ton of good things in that game, yet the entire performance is “garbage” because he threw 3 picks… even though he had the most attempts in the NFL without a pick not long ago and only 2 in his previous 9 games. 

We all saw Flacco get destroyed behind this OL and praised Wilson for escaping sacks and throwing it away when he came back. We all knew he was keeping drives alive. All of a sudden this fake narrative around a “chicken dance” is created turning this into a negative, which is absurd. 

Wilson’s ability to escape presssue and throw the ball away is a huge asset that helps the team, unfortunately it hurts his stats because it lowers his comp% unlike a sack

[doitny]

1 hour ago, LSJF said:

f you think Zach is a bust, what do you think the team should do...put in White, Streveler, wouldn't we be the picture of stability (sarcasm) . If the JETS demoted him now, they would be the same joke they have always been, by showing patience and hoping for growth in both QBing and Coaching  

you cant let Zach sink this ship. we cant go from 5-2 to 7-10 or 8-9 because of QB play. 

White might not be the answer but you got to try. if you start him a game and he sucks then you go back to Zach. at least you showed the team, fans and media you tried but Zach is the best QB we have this year. then next year hes done.

imagine the sh*t storm we would have if we are losing and Zach is still doing his chicken dance and we keep playing him. the media will kill us, they will lose the locker room. you will start having unnamed sources (players) critizsing Saleh and the team. the fans will be chanting for Mike White. 

i think we all like what JD and Saleh are trying to do here. they would take a serious hit if they let this season slip away and do nothing to stop it. this will turn into a clown show.

[LSJF]

24 minutes ago, Smashmouth said:

At some point obviously you want your team to win and the young QB to be great. Problem is now that we have a pretty solid team with good depth the QB still has not shown up. I don't think anyone wants Zach to fail so its more about the threads asking people to be positive when they are watching terrible QBing that's the problem . I see the flashes but flashes don't produce consistent QB play and you can't let flashes dictate who plays in the games which come down to winning or losing. With Really good QB play this team is probably 7-1

I know what you mean, he is our best bet, I would hate to bring in a retread , or draft somebody to Start all over again.. I don’t think the jets going to hold onto him just to hold onto him if he busts…

[LSJF]

17 minutes ago, St Louie Jet Fan said:

Exactly. At what point is it ok for the coaches to sacrifice the season to see what Zac might be?

the Giants kind of did that with Eli…, We don’t really have an alternative, unless they feel Mike White can be the potential QB one, that’s why I’m hoping for the best

[derp]

11 minutes ago, SuicidalSince98 said:

The problem that people have made up their minds even though he is a raw player that needs more time to develop.
 

They can’t see anything positive because he isn’t exactly where they wish he was in his development.

Sunday was a great example. He did a ton of good things in that game, yet the entire performance is “garbage” because he threw 3 picks… even though he had the most attempts in the NFL without a pick not long ago and only 2 in his previous 9 games. 

We all saw Flacco get destroyed behind this OL and praised Wilson for escaping sacks and throwing it away when he came back. We all knew he was keeping drives alive. All of a sudden this fake narrative around a “chicken dance” is created turning this into a negative, which is absurd. 

Wilson’s ability to escape presssue and throw the ball away is a huge asset that helps the team, unfortunately it hurts his stats because it lowers his comp% unlike a sack

So Sunday for example, I don’t think there’s really any place in a productive discussion for calling a performance garbage. Maybe some think the takeaway was too negative and overcompensating by being positive. But man if there’s an extreme with calling him garbage, there’s an extreme in the other direction with explaining away individual plays I think were objectively bad. I think taken in aggregate they’re concerning, even if you could hand wave at a few of them individually.

Genuinely asking because I don’t know the answer but it’s relevant to part of the point you’re trying to make: do you know how many of the times he’s pressured have resulted in him intentionally throwing the ball away?

I will add that the “needs more time to develop” crew takes things too far as well. He’s a year off them making a call on his fifth year option, he’s another year off likely being due an extension, those decisions are hard to make if you’ve only had a small window of actually being productive, quarterbacks get paid a ton of money, and much of the rest of the team is ready to seriously compete now or next year. The clock is ticking. And if he's developing he needs to show serious progress.

The teams he’s going to play on the next couple years while he’s on a rookie deal are the best he’s likely to play on. Goff and Wentz were like top ten guys production wise year two and they’re not actually franchise quarterbacks.

[LSJF]

8 minutes ago, doitny said:

you cant let Zach sink this ship. we cant go from 5-2 to 7-10 or 8-9 because of QB play. 

White might not be the answer but you got to try. if you start him a game and he sucks then you go back to Zach. at least you showed the team, fans and media you tried but Zach is the best QB we have this year. then next year hes done.

imagine the sh*t storm we would have if we are losing and Zach is still doing his chicken dance and we keep playing him. the media will kill us, they will lose the locker room. you will start having unnamed sources (players) critizsing Saleh and the team. the fans will be chanting for Mike White. 

i think we all like what JD and Saleh are trying to do here. they would take a serious hit if they let this season slip away and do nothing to stop it. this will turn into a clown show.

I’m not against yanking Zack from the game if he is throwing bullets to the other team… To the point where he gets benched, I think they are being patient because they feel his talent is there, And it seems like they do have a plan, but if he craps the bed, he should watch from the sideline, up to this game he’s been pretty much a manager, probably something they wanted him to do 

[Jetsfan80]

1 hour ago, LSJF said:

Do you think this a trap for the Bills? 

No

[SuicidalSince98]

8 minutes ago, derp said:

So Sunday for example, I don’t think there’s really any place in a productive discussion for calling a performance garbage. Maybe some think the takeaway was too negative and overcompensating by being positive. But man if there’s an extreme with calling him garbage, there’s an extreme in the other direction with explaining away individual plays I think were objectively bad. I think taken in aggregate they’re concerning, even if you could hand wave at a few of them individually.

Genuinely asking because I don’t know the answer but it’s relevant to part of the point you’re trying to make: do you know how many of the times he’s pressured have resulted in him intentionally throwing the ball away?

I will add that the “needs more time to develop” crew takes things too far as well. He’s a year off them making a call on his fifth year option, he’s another year off likely being due an extension, those decisions are hard to make if you’ve only had a small window of actually being productive, quarterbacks get paid a ton of money, and much of the rest of the team is ready to seriously compete now or next year. The clock is ticking. And if he's developing he needs to show serious progress.

The teams he’s going to play on the next couple years while he’s on a rookie deal are the best he’s likely to play on. Goff and Wentz were like top ten guys production wise year two and they’re not actually franchise quarterbacks.

Wilson has a real problem with erratic accuracy. It cost him the first pick. I am concerned that he hasn’t corrected that yet. My theory is that it’s a grip issue related to the NFL vs college ball and how much he spins the ball when throwing it. 

We are lumping “pressure” into one bucket when there is a huge range of what constitutes pressure. Wilson evades free rushers multiple times every game. He doesn’t trust his protection (he shouldn’t) so he is trigger happy with getting of the pocket. I think that is correctable over time, better than him taking a beating and rushing throws leading to picks 

 

[CanadienJetsFan]

2 hours ago, T0mShane said:

There’s blood in the water and they don’t want to be the last homer standing

Wait, are you calling Jets beat writers homers?

come on. You know that they love to sh*t disturb. It’s all about getting more clicks.  

Ps, everyone should that their “Schtik” with a grain of salt.

 

[MARTIN]

2 hours ago, JoeNamathsFurCoat said:

Watched ZW’s locker room Q & A today.

Looks like he’s cracking or about to. Too thin-skinned.   

Sancho had the personality to handle NY.  The smile, the ability to laugh at himself.  Unfortunately he didn’t have the game to go with it.

Wilson looks like he’s dying to go home, back to Provo and his sycophants or whatever.

You can’t have 3 ugly INTs like that in the most important game of the year and expect to not be asked about it.

I dont care if my qb is a dick to the beat. at all. The beat is scum. They ask dumb ass questions just to stir the pot and then try to act like they are your friends. Many of the people on the beat are scum. The same questions, over and over, worded slightly differently. If i was qb i would stare them in the eye like a damn psychopath when they asked me dumbass questions... M Clemons Style 

[derp]

5 minutes ago, SuicidalSince98 said:

Wilson has a real problem with erratic accuracy. It cost him the first pick. I am concerned that he hasn’t corrected that yet. My theory is that it’s a grip issue related to the NFL vs college ball and how much he spins the ball when throwing it. 

We are lumping “pressure” into one bucket when there is a huge range of what constitutes pressure. Wilson evades free rushers multiple times every game. He doesn’t trust his protection (he shouldn’t) so he is trigger happy with getting of the pocket. I think that is correctable over time, better than him taking a beating and rushing throws leading to picks 

 

I think a portion of the pressure can also be attributed to him holding the ball too long, he holds it longer than most quarterbacks and they’ve added pieces so that there are better passing game options. And while it’s great that he evades free rushers, he hasn’t actually been able to effectively convert those plays into positive yardage at a good clip at all. Either they really busted on upgrading skill talent or he’s making poor decisions once pressured.

Not putting the one throw in the seats and getting picked off is an example of making bad decisions, and process over results. He made that mistake in the Steelers game too, it just didn’t get called a pick on the field. On one hand maybe he learns that lesson after actually getting picked. On the other hand he should’ve gotten reamed in postgame after he did it against the Steelers, frankly should’ve been mad at himself, and should’ve learned then you don’t throw the ball close to in bounds when you’re throwing it away. So on one hand I get thinking maybe he learns the lesson, but on the other hand it’s a lesson I think he already should’ve learned this season so if he didn’t learn it the first time I don’t know why I’d expect him to learn it the second, if that makes any sense.

[SuicidalSince98]

1 minute ago, derp said:

I think a portion of the pressure can also be attributed to him holding the ball too long, he holds it longer than most quarterbacks and they’ve added pieces so that there are better passing game options. And while it’s great that he evades free rushers, he hasn’t actually been able to effectively convert those plays into positive yardage at a good clip at all. Either they really busted on upgrading skill talent or he’s making poor decisions once pressured.

Not putting the one throw in the seats and getting picked off is an example of making bad decisions, and process over results. He made that mistake in the Steelers game too, it just didn’t get called a pick on the field. On one hand maybe he learns that lesson after actually getting picked. On the other hand he should’ve gotten reamed in postgame after he did it against the Steelers, frankly should’ve been mad at himself, and should’ve learned then you don’t throw the ball close to in bounds when you’re throwing it away. So on one hand I get thinking maybe he learns the lesson, but on the other hand it’s a lesson I think he already should’ve learned this season so if he didn’t learn it the first time I don’t know why I’d expect him to learn it the second, if that makes any sense.

He holds the ball long because he is escaping pressure 

[Mario]

Zac is beautiful no matter what they say. Words can’t get him down. 

[Drums]

If he plays well most will be quiet. Up to him. 

[jeremy2020]

Seems like there's too many people interested in being on zac's sac despite hisplay

[derp]

33 minutes ago, SuicidalSince98 said:

He holds the ball long because he is escaping pressure 

There are times the ball should be out instead of running. And times the pressure is there because the ball isn’t out.

[Warfish]

2 hours ago, LSJF said:

All good points...mine being, not to be a homer about it, but I do admire the patience from the Jets brass, Zach has flashed maybe he will leap, but bitching about him will do nothing... However...Enjoy the game!

Patience is always judged by if it works out or not.  Being patient for something that never delivers is no good thing.  

 

[LSJF]

3 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Patience is always judged by if it works out or not.  Being patient for something that never delivers is no good thing.  

 

True if there is absolutely no progression, after last week he was looking better, not great but may be on the way… Definitely not a bust, after last week I can see where people are concerned… he might get off the mat and do better…

[T0mShane]

1 hour ago, derp said:

Genuinely asking because I don’t know the answer but it’s relevant to part of the point you’re trying to make: do you know how many of the times he’s pressured have resulted in him intentionally throwing the ball away?

Zach has 160 dropbacks, 14 throw-aways, 10 sacks.

Flacco had 165 dropbacks, 10 throwaways, 9 sacks. 

[Jetsfan80]

57 minutes ago, CanadienJetsFan said:

Wait, are you calling Jets beat writers homers?

come on. You know that they love to sh*t disturb. It’s all about getting more clicks.  

Ps, everyone should that their “Schtik” with a grain of salt.

Not homers but there are some coaches/players they go after harder than others.  They were giving Wilson kids' gloves treatment for nearly 2 years.

[LSJF]

1 hour ago, jeremy2020 said:

Seems like there's too many MILFs interested in being on zac's sac despite hisplay

Fixed

[BigRy56]

Absolute massive sac 

[doitny]

1 hour ago, T0mShane said:

Zach has 160 dropbacks, 14 throw-aways, 10 sacks.

Flacco had 165 dropbacks, 10 throwaways, 9 sacks. 

proof that Zach is worst than Flacco

[T0mShane]

44 minutes ago, doitny said:

proof that Zach is worst than Flacco

Yeah, the Zach guys have to stop defending Zach by saying he’s better than Flacco because 1. He’s not and 2. Flacco is terrible.

[T0mShane]

2 hours ago, CanadienJetsFan said:

Wait, are you calling Jets beat writers homers?

come on. You know that they love to sh*t disturb. It’s all about getting more clicks.  

Ps, everyone should that their “Schtik” with a grain of salt.

 

Not homers, per se, but they’ve all been giving Wilson the benefit of the doubt up until recently. 

[Sperm Edwards]

1 hour ago, T0mShane said:

Zach has 160 dropbacks, 14 throw-aways, 10 sacks.

Flacco had 165 dropbacks, 10 throwaways, 9 sacks. 

Get off all 10 of his sacks, bucko. 

[T0mShane]

4 hours ago, JoeNamathsFurCoat said:

If you believe BS and JD, he’s going to get the year regardless.

Let’s see what he can do.

With ZW’s injury history and lack of awareness though, there’s a nonzero chance we’ll see Mike White at some point this season despite Saleh’s obstinacy.

I do not believe BS or JD. They say the same exact stuff about all of their players, whether it’s Becton, Mims, Moore, or Zach. 

[doitny]

41 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Yeah, the Zach guys have to stop defending Zach by saying he’s better than Flacco because 1. He’s not and 2. Flacco is terrible.

if he gets his ass handed to him on Sunday i dont know how anyone defends him.