QB School - The Zach Wilson Experiment is Nearing Its End

[varjet]

1 hour ago, Chewy and the Jets said:

We draft a very raw prospect, the QB coach we had hired to mentor is tragically killed a month later, and this kid hasn't developed a single iota since we gifted him the job and threw him into the deep end from day 1.   I mean he has no idea what he is seeing or doing out there.  So bad to the point where we can't even learn about his backup because the floor has been set so low.  What an absolute %^$# show.

Anybody taking issue with Lafleur can only focus on his teaching skills.  His scheme is good as we witness every time a QB not named Wilson gets behind center.  As for Wilson I am not sure the leap of epic proportions he will require to improve to even below average starting caliber is within his grasp but until he demonstrates significant improvement he is is backup at best.  Man it sucks being us.  

The Jets had exactly the right plan with Wilson.  MLF was not a QB coach.  They brought in one of the best QB coaches in the business....and then Knapp was killed by a distracted driver.   They then brought in his personal QB coach last year.  Rob Calabrese was also on the original staff...really to learn.

But the Jets don't get points for trying.  After Knapp was killed, they needed to replace him.  Wilson did not appear to work on his deficiencies in the offseason, and he does not appear to be getting good coaching now.  We are not seeing a Josh Allen/Trevor Lawrence jump from year 1 to 2.  

I do think Wilson is also at fault here, but I also don't think that the Jets did enough with Wilson.  

[bitonti]

21 minutes ago, varjet said:

Wilson did not appear to work on his deficiencies in the offseason

Because Zach Wilson doesn't believe he has deficiencies

when Saleh benched him he said "why me, why now?" it's like really my dude? 

he just put up less passing yards (9) than punts (10) and had a total of 2 yards offense in the 2nd half against NEP and he's asking Why Me, Why Now? 

Zach spends his offseasons banging (former) friends moms, taking IG of the Idaho compound, he doesn't need to get any better

that hard work and self-reflection stuff is for other people

if you just got a new scooter from him you'd understand better

there's nothing he can't solve by either writing a check or banging a mom 

 

[jgb]

2 minutes ago, bitonti said:

Because Zach Wilson doesn't believe he has deficiencies

when Saleh benched him he said "why me, why now?" it's like really my dude? 

he just put up less passing yards (9) than punts (10) and had a total of 2 yards offense in the 2nd half against NEP and he's asking Why Me, Why Now? 

Zach spends his offseasons banging (former) friends moms, taking IG of the Idaho compound, he doesn't need to get any better

that hard work and self-reflection stuff is for other people

if you just got a new scooter from him you'd understand better

there's nothing he can't solve by either writing a check or banging a mom 

 

Already thought he had arrived. Difficult to coach. Me first attitude.

All appear in scouting reports.

[Barry McCockinner]

QB School Guy: Breaks down details of exactly why Zach is not looking like an NFL QB

Zach Fan: This guy doesn't know what he's talking about. MLF should have Zach roll out and pass across the field 8+ times per game.

[Jetsfan80]

9 minutes ago, Barry McCockinner said:

QB School Guy: Breaks down details of exactly why Zach is not looking like an NFL QB

Zach Fan: This guy doesn't know what he's talking about. MLF should have Zach roll out and pass across the field 8+ times per game.

 

@Hal N of Provo:  "They should roll out Zach 8+ times a game."

JTO:  Here's why they can't do that.

Hal:  I didn't watch, and, he's stupid.  

[Greensleeves]

Let's not develop the guy with the most sheer talent at the QB position on the team - let's just get rid of him even though noone on our team has ever developed a QB before. We develop Zach properly we win a Super Bowl. We don't develop Zach properly we don't. MW doesn't have the ceiling to compete with Mahomes and Allen. Zach does if he is developed properly. If he adds the easy/intermediate stuff to his game and his progressions improve to go along with elite throwing ability, we have a Super Bowl team. 

[Jetsfan80]

8 minutes ago, Greensleeves said:

Let's not develop the guy with the most sheer talent at the QB position on the team - let's just get rid of him even though noone on our team has ever developed a QB before. We develop Zach properly we win a Super Bowl. We don't develop Zach properly we don't. MW doesn't have the ceiling to compete with Mahomes and Allen. Zach does if he is developed properly. If he adds the easy/intermediate stuff to his game and his progressions improve to go along with elite throwing ability, we have a Super Bowl team. 

You can't "develop" a QB who can't complete a f**king screen pass.  

Yeah, just "add that easy/intermediary stuff".  Oh, so like 85 % of the throws a QB is expected to be able to complete at a HS level that our 2nd year Pro QB can't do to save his life, even in a clean pocket?  Yeah, easy!!!  And totally something a pro OC should have to work on with a 2nd year pro QB.

You're operating like a few tweaks and sprinkles of improvement is all it'll take.  This is a guy who CANNOT PLAY THE POSITION we're talking about.  He's already about to be halfway through his rookie deal.  The stuff he doesn't "get" might take another 3-5 years to "fix", if its even fixable.  Think the Jets have that kind of time?

Looks like you're another one in this thread who didn't watch the video.  Watch it first, THEN comment.  

[T0mShane]

1 hour ago, varjet said:

I do think Wilson is also at fault here, but I also don't think that the Jets did enough with Wilson.

The long and short of it is that he can’t handle pass rush pressure and lacks the instincts for life in the pocket. There was no coaching that into him

[GreenFish]

2 years in and he is still a college QB.

Guys are open. GW is almost always open actually. Wide ass open!

Proof it is not a scheme issue. Zach Wilson is going to get a lot of people fired.

Some fans are already taking out their frustration on GW because of “antics”. Lol

[T0mShane]

4 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

You can't "develop" a QB who can't complete a f**king screen pass.  

Yeah, just "add that easy/intermediary stuff".  Oh, so like 85 % of the throws a QB is expected to be able to complete at a HS level that our 2nd year Pro QB can't do to save his life, even in a clean pocket?  Yeah, easy!!!  And totally something a pro OC should have to work on with a young QB.

The entire video is breaking down how Zach can’t perform the simplest and most intermediate tasks of quarterbacking and we still have people in here saying that LaFleur needs to run more simple and intermediate plays for Zach Wilson. 

[carlito1171]

7 hours ago, Integrity28 said:

Only a few plays in. The sack, the big completions to GW and CJU… both of those passes the WR was open by 8+ yards. Great he got the ball there, but not exactly special.

A number of his completions sunday were wildly inaccurate throws that the WR just made a great play on....

He's gone from WTF to roadkill in the matter of weeks

[Jetsfan80]

Just now, T0mShane said:

The entire video is breaking down how Zach can’t perform the simplest and most intermediate tasks of quarterbacking and we still have people in here saying that LaFleur needs to run more simple and intermediate plays for Zach Wilson. 

Or they're going in the other direction and suggesting it should just be bombs away/roll-outs the whole game.

Yeah.  That's sustainable in the NFL.

[Barry McCockinner]

7 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

You can't "develop" a QB who can't complete a f**king screen pass.  

Yeah, just "add that easy/intermediary stuff".  Oh, so like 85 % of the throws a QB is expected to be able to complete at a HS level that our 2nd year Pro QB can't do to save his life, even in a clean pocket?  Yeah, easy!!!  And totally something a pro OC should have to work on with a young QB.

You're operating like a few tweaks and sprinkles of improvement is all it'll take.  This is a guy who CANNOT PLAY THE POSITION we're talking about.  He's already about to be halfway through his rookie deal.  The stuff he doesn't "get" might take another 3-5 years to "fix", if its even fixable.  Think the Jets have that kind of time?

Looks like you're another one in this thread who didn't watch the video.  Watch it first, THEN comment.  

Which is it, it might take 3-5 years or you can't do it? What if it might take 6-12 months?

I don't like to look at things in absolutes. Very low chance - sure. Can't? ehhh ... Buffalo Bills RB Josh Allen comes to mind.

The guy CAN make the gimme throws. He just hasn't shown he can do it consistently. Is there a way to fix that? I don't know but hopefully they can.

[Jetsfan80]

Just now, Barry McCockinner said:

Which is it, it might take 3-5 years or you can't do it? What if it might take 6-12 months?

I don't like to look at things in absolutes. Very low chance - sure. Can't? ehhh ... Buffalo Bills RB Josh Allen comes to mind.

The guy CAN make the gimme throws. He just hasn't shown he can do it consistently. Is there a way to fix that? I don't know but hopefully they can.

Does it matter?  In 3-5 years his rookie deal with the Jets ends and he's on a new team.

And oh boy, please no more of the Josh Allen stuff.  We heard about that enough during the Darnold era.  

[CanadienJetsFan]

8 minutes ago, Greensleeves said:

Let's not develop the guy with the most sheer talent at the QB position on the team - let's just get rid of him even though noone on our team has ever developed a QB before. We develop Zach properly we win a Super Bowl. We don't develop Zach properly we don't. MW doesn't have the ceiling to compete with Mahomes and Allen. Zach does if he is developed properly. If he adds the easy/intermediate stuff to his game and his progressions improve to go along with elite throwing ability, we have a Super Bowl team. 

True.

IF they can develop him better…IF…

[Barry McCockinner]

2 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Does it matter?  In 3-5 years his rookie deal with the Jets ends and he's on a new team.

And oh boy, please no more of the Josh Allen stuff.  We heard about that enough during the Darnold era.  

no. you never get to live down writing off Josh Allen. That's on your permanent record pal.

[Jetsfan80]

1 minute ago, CanadienJetsFan said:

True.

IF they can develop him better…IF…

I'm really wondering what people think coaches in the pros do.  It's not up to those coaches to fix Zach Wilson's short/intermediary accuracy.  That's stuff that has to either be there before he ever gets to the pros OR needs to be completely re-tooled in the offseason with someone like John Beck.

It's not up to Mike LaFleur to get him to stop missing 10-yard throws by a 3-yard radius.  

[Jetsfan80]

Just now, Barry McCockinner said:

no. you never get to live down writing off Josh Allen. That's on your permanent record pal.

You misunderstand.  I'm fine with being made fun of for it.  My point is it can't be used as a reason for hope for any sh*tty 2nd year QB.  There's nothing in common between Allen and Wilson.  Like, absolutely nothing.

[jetswinbaby!]

Tonight's game should tell us a lot about Zach...

Unless you have already decided that you don't want to listen...

[Barry McCockinner]

Just now, Jetsfan80 said:

You misunderstand.  I'm fine with being made fun of for it.  My point is it can't be used as a reason for hope for any sh*tty 2nd year QB.  There's nothing in common between Allen and Wilson.  Like, absolutely nothing.

No you misunderstand. The whole point was looking at things in absolutes can F you up, not to suggest Allen is hope for Wilson.

[Jetsfan80]

1 minute ago, Barry McCockinner said:

No you misunderstand. The whole point was looking at things in absolutes can F you up, not to suggest Allen is hope for Wilson.

I used absolutes about Sam Darnold and Jamal Adams and they didn't come back to haunt me.  I'll take my chances with Zach.  

[Barry McCockinner]

Just now, Jetsfan80 said:

I used absolutes about Sam Darnold and Jamal Adams and they didn't come back to haunt me.  I'll take my chances with Zach.  

that's no way to go about life, son.

[Jetsfan80]

Just now, Barry McCockinner said:

that's no way to go about life, son.

Sure it is.  Hedging your bets is for pu$$ies.  You should know that better than anyone, Mr Bitcoin!  

ALL IN B*TCHES.

[slimjasi]

6 minutes ago, Barry McCockinner said:

Which is it, it might take 3-5 years or you can't do it? What if it might take 6-12 months?

I don't like to look at things in absolutes. Very low chance - sure. Can't? ehhh ... Buffalo Bills RB Josh Allen comes to mind.

The guy CAN make the gimme throws. He just hasn't shown he can do it consistently. Is there a way to fix that? I don't know but hopefully they can.

I think this is a very astute point. 

There are very few certainties about the future and the NFL is as unpredictable as basically any sport. 

Wilson looks/feels like a major bust and I think the odds are stacked decidedly against him. But I've learned to be careful with these "this guy will never do X" kind of statements. I'm guessing the vast majority of people on this board would have said Geno Smith would NEVER make a Pro Bowl as recently as 3 months ago. Words like never/always/guaranteed/etc., should mostly not be in our vocabulary when discussing this stuff. Too many variables and too much uncertainty. 

 

 

[GandWFan]

3 minutes ago, Barry McCockinner said:

No you misunderstand. The whole point was looking at things in absolutes can F you up, not to suggest Allen is hope for Wilson.

You are absolutely right!

[CanadienJetsFan]

2 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

That's stuff that has to either be there before he ever gets to the pros OR needs to be completely re-tooled in the offseason with someone like John Beck.

That’s what I meant. He is what he is right now. Which a first-read thrower. If the first option isn’t there, he panics. The “book” vs Zach has been written and he can’t seem to adjust because the game’s just too fast.

Nobody knows if he can improve… probably. But how long will it take? The big question which will only be answered in the off-season, is whether management is still willing to develop him. 

[Jetsfan80]

6 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

I think this is a very astute point. 

There are very few certainties about the future and the NFL is as unpredictable as basically any sport. 

Wilson looks/feels like a major bust and I think the odds are stacked decidedly against him. But I've learned to be careful with these "this guy will never do X" kind of statements. I'm guessing the vast majority of people on this board would have said Geno Smith would NEVER make a Pro Bowl as recently as 3 months ago. Words like never/always/guaranteed/etc., should mostly not be in our vocabulary when discussing this stuff. Too many variables and too much uncertainty. 

It took 10 years and he isn't a Jet.  So who gives a f**k?

Waiting for 10 years for Zach Wilson to make a Pro Bowl with the 49ers wouldn't be the type of victory Zach defenders think it is.  I mean, do you think Vikings or Chiefs fans feel better about Rich Gannon because of his success in Oakland?

[T0mShane]

12 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Or they're going in the other direction and suggesting it should just be bombs away/roll-outs the whole game.

Yeah.  That's sustainable in the NFL.

Guy shredded his meniscus tripping over a piece of grass but let’s pretend that he’s Lamar Jackson

[Jetsfan80]

3 minutes ago, CanadienJetsFan said:

That’s what I meant. He is what he is right now. Which a first-read thrower. If the first option isn’t there, he panics. The “book” vs Zach has been written and he can’t seem to adjust because the game’s just too fast.

Nobody knows if he can improve… probably. But how long will it take? The big question which will only be answered in the off-season, is whether management is still willing to develop him. 

I'm fine with the Jets keeping Wilson around next year in an attempt to still develop him if they wish.  But that doesn't mean making him the unquestioned QB1.  Let him "develop" in the offseason and as the QB3 going against the 1st team D in practice every week.

For once in my Jet fandom I'd like to see highly-drafted QBs be forced to EARN his playing time.  Not just be handed it due to a lack of alternatives.

[slimjasi]

1 minute ago, Jetsfan80 said:

It took 10 years and he isn't a Jet.  So who gives a f**k?

Waiting for 10 years for Zach Wilson to make a Pro Bowl with the 49ers wouldn't be the type of victory Zach defenders think it is.  I mean, do you think Chiefs fans feel better about Rich Gannon because of his success in Oakland?

Well, I don't. But some people will and will give you sh*t for it.

You do you!

[T0mShane]

5 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

I used absolutes about Sam Darnold and Jamal Adams and they didn't come back to haunt me.  I'll take my chances with Zach.  

Oh my God. Remember getting yelled at for being mean to Jamal Adams?

[CanadienJetsFan]

Just now, Jetsfan80 said:

I'm fine with the Jets keeping Wilson around next year in an attempt to still develop him if they wish.  But that doesn't mean making him the unquestioned QB1.  Let him "develop" in the offseason and as the QB3 going against the 1st team D in practice every week.

Unless JD gets another 2nd round pick for him, lol

[Jetsfan80]

1 minute ago, slimjasi said:

Well, I don't. But some people will and will give you sh*t for it.

You do you!

@T0mShane once referred to me as a "digitized John Wick" when it comes to absorbing message board criticism.  Perhaps my finest JN moment.

Come.  At.  Me.  Bros.

[Jetsfan80]

1 minute ago, CanadienJetsFan said:

Unless JD gets another 2nd round pick for him, lol

lol yep.  If he pulls that off, build the statue now.

[Jetsfan80]

4 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Oh my God. Remember getting yelled at for being mean to Jamal Adams?

Amazing the abuse you and I take in these parts only to watch those same posters slink off into the nethers of the internet.

Yet here you and I are, still standing and still pissing slats and the PVO crew off to no end.