Edsen JR- Zach & Mimsie for Sutton Place

[IndianaJet]

52 minutes ago, Pac said:

Many of you are being silly.  You don't cut the 2nd overall pick after 2 years if there's even a slim chance he can turn it around. 

You don't need an inside source to tell you this..  It's common sense. 

There is simply no better option than Rodgers for 2 years which gives Zip a chance to figure it out.  Anything else will be a let down. 

I can't believe you're making me defend Zippy f'ing Wilson. 

You're not so much defending Wilson as you are defending the situation.  It wouldn't be any different no matter who the poorly performing #2 overall pick is...especially since his money is all guaranteed.  There's just no upside to cutting a player in this situation.

[Patriot Killa]

9 minutes ago, AZSOJ said:

Last yearSam played well after he came back from injury and had them in the PO hunt. Indeed, the new HC is considering keeping him... so I wouldn't use him as an example. 

I would absolutely use him as an example because he never turned out to the be 3rd overall pick as far as realizing potential and fulfilling it on the field goes. The kind of talent he was drafted to be isn’t what he is and probably never will be.

[Dunnie]

Do you see signing a 31 year old free agent like Derek Carr to a multi-year deal consistent with this philosophy?

Do you see signing Carr as a real possibility?

Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk

[football guy]

13 minutes ago, Patriot Killa said:

As tremendous as this back and forth has been, I’ll be honest, as much as context matters, it also matters when comparing Wilson’s play on a more talented team to less talented teams that equally talented QB’s have been under center for. Darnold is the prime example. If a guy cannot play in this league, it’s fairly easy to tell no matter what context is considered in all of this.

Both Jet situations for Darnold and Wilson were dysfunctional for different reasons. That's not to say either player deserves zero blame, but you shouldn't discount all the things that happened to Wilson these past two years simply because the team was "more talented." Both QBs found themselves in dysfunctional situations for different reasons. Darnold was on a bad roster, but he had a very good nucleus of QB-centric coaches in his rookie year. Gase's offense was much like MLF's in terms of his unwillingness to adapt, but even then there was actually a heavy QB-centric emphasis on the staff... Zach's situation was different. The staff has lacked true QB-centric coaches... they put all their eggs in the Greg Knapp basket and it backfired. The offensive line was a trainwreck. Zach's offseason plan with MLF/Calabrese was a trainwreck. Zach's injury couldn't have been more poorly timed. The lack of a true and experienced QB coach was a disaster decision that not only impacted Zach, but all of our QBs. The communication between the OC and players got really bad. You had the coaches telling players to do certain things without providing a reason why, only to flip-flop the following week... it wasn't a good situation. 

By no means am I absolving Zach, but I'm not going to ignore all the dysfunction around the QB either. 

[Jetsfan80]

5 hours ago, Zachtomims47 said:

Mims is worth way more. Disrespectful. 

Omg if Zach and Mims got traded at the same time….

[SomebodytoAnybody47]

4 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Omg if Zach and Mims got traded at the same time….

Then trade me too!! I mean it makes sense an elite offensive mind would be interested in them. Smart man. 

[Jetsfan80]

4 hours ago, The Crusher said:

I have a zero gravity recliner and that’s my favorite position to eat popcorn too. Except my dog Bruno sits on my belly to share! 

We don’t talk about Bruno

[Patriot Killa]

9 minutes ago, football guy said:

Both Jet situations for Darnold and Wilson were dysfunctional for different reasons. That's not to say either player deserves zero blame, but you shouldn't discount all the things that happened to Wilson these past two years simply because the team was "more talented." Both QBs found themselves in dysfunctional situations for different reasons. Darnold was on a bad roster, but he had a very good nucleus of QB-centric coaches in his rookie year. Gase's offense was much like MLF's in terms of his unwillingness to adapt, but even then there was actually a heavy QB-centric emphasis on the staff... Zach's situation was different. The staff has lacked true QB-centric coaches... they put all their eggs in the Greg Knapp basket and it backfired. The offensive line was a trainwreck. Zach's offseason plan with MLF/Calabrese was a trainwreck. Zach's injury couldn't have been more poorly timed. The lack of a true and experienced QB coach was a disaster decision that not only impacted Zach, but all of our QBs. The communication between the OC and players got really bad. You had the coaches telling players to do certain things without providing a reason why, only to flip-flop the following week... it wasn't a good situation. 

By no means am I absolving Zach, but I'm not going to ignore all the dysfunction around the QB either. 

Why were 3 different QB’s able to work this MLF system with ease & Wilson wasn’t?

Are you saying because we didn’t have QB-centric coaches, it left Wilson less seasoned as he should have been coming into year 2? Meh, Mike White had little to no starting experience, Flacco hadn’t thrown a pass in a hot minute and neither did Josh Johnson. I just don’t like hearing that excuse. There wasn’t as much dysfunction as you’re claiming, at least from my POV. Wilson had everything he needed to play well. Feels like sometimes people put more value in what might impact the play of a QB than what they should.

Yes, most of the time a QB needs a nice situation to be groomed and play well, but let’s keep it real, that doesn’t necessarily mean everything has to be perfect in order for things to go right, in fact, let’s dial it down to the basics, if a guy is suppose to look good (which he should, given his draft slot, his talent and his weapons) then he winds up looking like the worst QB to play in 20 years. I’d say It’s pretty clear that he just isn’t good. It’s actually really simple stuff.. if you let it be simple.

[Jetsfan80]

3 hours ago, peekskill68 said:

Actually seems like Darnold is slowly working himself into a serviceable starter so if he was a JD guy instead of a Macc guy he might still be here.  His QBR for 2022 was similar to Tannehill.

lol no

[Flea Flicking Frank]

10 minutes ago, Patriot Killa said:

Why were 3 different QB’s able to work this MLF system with ease & Wilson wasn’t?

I really have zero interest in defending ZW, but this statement is ludicrous, look at Mike White, Joe Flacco and Zach Wilsons stats this year, they were all putrid. Nobody QB'd this team with ease this year, nobody

[chirorob]

6 hours ago, football guy said:

 

Breaking News: Joe Douglas/Robert Saleh don't want to give up on Zach for the same reasons why Sean Payton would want him; they want to sit and develop him behind an established starter - ideally for at least a year - and see if they can unlock him. 

So do you se the Jets actually trying to sign Carr?  If he gets a 3-5 year deal, that mean Zach is gone.

[Patriot Killa]

4 minutes ago, Flea Flicking Frank said:

I really have zero interest in defending ZW, but this statement is ludicrous, look at Mike White, Joe Flacco and Zach Wilsons stats this year, they were all putrid. Nobody QB'd this team with ease this year, nobody

What’s ludicrous is acting like they didn’t move the chains MUCH easier than Wilson was able to. A simple google search of YPG/YPA as opposed to Wilson’s would help to clear up the confusion!

[OtherwiseHappyinLife]

2 hours ago, football guy said:

I don't think they legitimately felt he was "ready to start" and handle the pressure year 1 just as 99% of rookie QBs aren't. I think they rationalized that it was a development year and MLF led everyone to believe that Zach was ready to start in his offense which played into it. That was on the Jets. If I'm running a team, I need to know without an ounce of doubt that my QB is ready before starting him week 1... I would've challenged him and purposefully held him out for a few weeks before putting him in, but that's just me. I'm sure had Greg Knapp been here, he would've found ways to ease things for both Wilson and MLF to make it a little easier on the both of them, but MLF did not anticipate how difficult it would be to work with a rookie QB. So his untimely and tragic passing did not help. They'll also point to an inexperienced staff/coaching and injuries as reasons for his regression. 

As far as proving he can be a starter: I think the only way you will know for sure is by seeing him play on the field. But again, how do the Packers know that Love is ready? How did the Packers know Rodgers was ready? Both those guys looked awful early in their careers in limited action. How do all these teams who had young QBs sitting on the bench know they were ready? It's everything they see behind the scenes. They want to see more consistency, urgency, confidence, and poise out of Zach and a lot of that can be seen in meetings, on the practice field, in scrimmages/preseason, and anticipate what they see will translate to on-field success. If he gives you enough of a reason to believe that he has found his groove and has the potential to be a high-end starter, they'll give him that chance in a year or 2 while hedging (whether it be adding a veteran to compete or by drafting a guy in rounds 1-2 like the Packers did when they drafted Brian Brohm before Aaron even started a single game). 

I do respect / enjoy your posts and use of logic & context but here is a gap I see.  You didn’t think the Jets would get rid of MiLF yet you seem to put a heavy dose of blame on him— both presumably from chatter you are hearing inside or close to the organization.

So why would you believe the Jets were keeping MiLF if the newer argument is he was part of the Zach problem?

Afterall, you’re representing internal views of the Jets which just don’t line up if the plan has been to salvage Zach.  Why would you previously conclude that a big root of the problem would be retained to fix it?

Here’s what my logic has told me:

1. Jets would use a first round pick on a WR last year (check)

2. The Jets needed to start Mike White no later than the Bears after the Pats fiasco.  If they waited for Wilson to put up a good enough game against a weak defense, the opportunity to sit Zach might have passed or been delayed too late into the season to make their best run at the playoffs (check)

3. The Jets would fire LaFleur with a key consideration being the lack of confidence within the locker room (check)

4. The Jets will bring in Derek Carr because he’s a better fit for a young team who needs leadership and someone who is bought in

(we’ll see on this one)

5. Yes, the Jets will do their best to turn around Zach but the trade route is far more probable than the fifth year option or extension after 2024

[Jetsfan80]

1 hour ago, JiFields said:

Some low level scout or former QB coach told him Zach had made “night and day” improvement from year 1 to year 2 and the toolbag takes it as gospel.  

[Flea Flicking Frank]

3 minutes ago, Patriot Killa said:

What’s ludicrous is acting like they didn’t move the chains MUCH easier than Wilson was able to. A simple google search of YPG/YPA as opposed to Wilson’s would help to clear up the confusion!

stop, nobody had an easy time QB'ing this team, all 3 were atrocious, there  is no confusion, they were all awful

[Patriot Killa]

3 minutes ago, Flea Flicking Frank said:

stop, nobody had an easy time QB'ing this team, all 3 were atrocious, there  is no confusion, they were all awful

So do you want me to pull it up or nah?

[football guy]

7 minutes ago, Patriot Killa said:

Why were 3 different QB’s able to work this MLF system with ease & Wilson wasn’t?

Are you saying because we didn’t have QB-centric coaches, it left Wilson less seasoned as he should have been coming into year 2? Meh, Mike White had little to no starting experience, Flacco hadn’t thrown a pass in a hot minute and neither did Josh Johnson. I just don’t like hearing that excuse. There wasn’t as much dysfunction as you’re claiming, at least from my POV. Wilson had everything he needed to play well. Feels like sometimes people put more value in what might impact the play of a QB than what they should.

Yes, most of the time a QB needs a nice situation to be groomed and play well, but let’s keep it real, that doesn’t necessarily mean everything has to be perfect in order for things to go right, in fact, let’s dial it down to the basics, if a guy is suppose to look good (which he should, given his draft slot, his talent and his weapons) then he winds up looking like the worst QB to play in 20 years. I’d say It’s pretty clear that he just isn’t good. It’s actually really simple stuff.. if you let it be simple.

Firstly, did you see how rapidly those other QBs regressed from start 1 to 2, 2 to 3, and so on?

Second, starting experience is necessary to establish longevity, but to act like its necessary for a guy to be "seasoned" in terms of what they're seeing or how they're supposed to operate is overrated. The Mike White's and Cooper Rush's of the world are who they are largely because they've been able to sit, learn, and develop at their own pace without the pressure of starting. 

 

What specifically was the issue with Wilson versus others? He is more green and it took him slightly longer to absorb things than it did for others, and the way the scheme is designed those split seconds were the difference between a potential TD and a busted play. Mike White, Josh Johnson, Joe Flacco understood what they were seeing and were comfortable within themselves to just listen to what the coach told them to do without having to fully digest or understand it. They didn't need to be "coddled" nor did they need to know the philosophy behind the plays. What makes this scheme great for a seasoned QB is that it gives them solutions to problems based on what they see pre-snap. So for instance, if the defense showed A, the QB knew to throw to Z. If they showed B, the QB throws to Y. MLF is not a QB teacher nor does he know how to think like a QB or prioritize things that QBs need to prioritize, but he could tell the QB where their eyes should be and where he should throw to in the given situations. While helpful, its not like he was teaching them the "why" behind it. Zach wanted to understand the "why" and wanted a platform to ask questions to the QB to help him grasp and understand the reasons for what he was being asked to do things but it wasn't MLF's philosophy to do that... he wanted no part of it and looked at the QB coach to deal with that. For those who seem to forget, this is how the whole "sideline gate" started during Zach's rookie year... Zach wanted MLF on the sideline so he can communicate with him for some live coaching, but MLF was reluctant because he felt more natural calling plays to the QB coach from the booth because it allowed him to "see the field better"... in many ways, that instance was a microcosm of what went wrong over the entire 2 year span of the MLF/ZW era. He and Calabrese also were not great and developing plans for QBs; their priorities for all the guys last offseason was totally flawed, which many believe explained why Zach and Mike arrived at camp with less than ideal footwork... it's not to say they told the QBs to ignore their footwork, but the priorities they set out for them were all about playbook and that was what was backchanneled to John Beck as well. Kind of misguided if you ask me. 

[Flea Flicking Frank]

15 minutes ago, Patriot Killa said:

So do you want me to pull it up or nah?

you can pull up whatever the hell you want, the completion %, the TD/INT ratio, the sack rate, the QB rating was absolute dog sh*t for all 3, but if you want to pull it out, don't let me stop you, just recommend you wash your hands after

[Patriot Killa]

30 minutes ago, Flea Flicking Frank said:

you can pull up whatever the hell you want, the completion %, the TD/INT ratio, the sack rate, the QB rating was absolute dog sh*t for all 3, but if you want to pull it out, don't let me stop you, just recommend you wash your hands after

I don’t think you understand what you are even arguing about considering this post.

[bitonti]

3 hours ago, Beerfish said:

There has been zero evidence i have seen that he is a cancer in the locker room.  He made one dumbass comment after a tough loss.

The second comment?  LOL his comment was that he is going to do every thing he can to make it tough choice between him and the next QB, that is a good thing.

There's zero evidence he's a cancer 

Except for the first evidence. And the second evidence. 

This is a guy who has no respect in the locker room.

Want more evidence? 

During the Elijah Moore outburst, Zach basically taunted Moore (sure I'd like to throw it 40x a game) 

Qw tweeted at bosa he knows what it's like to have no qb during the phi / sf playoff game.

Sauce plays madden in public as the Jets and starts Mike white 

There's also the rumor that in the exit interviews multiple players begged the coaches to get rid of Zach 

But yeah other than all that evidence there's no evidence. 

 

[section314]

1 hour ago, football guy said:

Firstly, did you see how rapidly those other QBs regressed from start 1 to 2, 2 to 3, and so on?

Second, starting experience is necessary to establish longevity, but to act like its necessary for a guy to be "seasoned" in terms of what they're seeing or how they're supposed to operate is overrated. The Mike White's and Cooper Rush's of the world are who they are largely because they've been able to sit, learn, and develop at their own pace without the pressure of starting. 

 

What specifically was the issue with Wilson versus others? He is more green and it took him slightly longer to absorb things than it did for others, and the way the scheme is designed those split seconds were the difference between a potential TD and a busted play. Mike White, Josh Johnson, Joe Flacco understood what they were seeing and were comfortable within themselves to just listen to what the coach told them to do without having to fully digest or understand it. They didn't need to be "coddled" nor did they need to know the philosophy behind the plays. What makes this scheme great for a seasoned QB is that it gives them solutions to problems based on what they see pre-snap. So for instance, if the defense showed A, the QB knew to throw to Z. If they showed B, the QB throws to Y. MLF is not a QB teacher nor does he know how to think like a QB or prioritize things that QBs need to prioritize, but he could tell the QB where their eyes should be and where he should throw to in the given situations. While helpful, its not like he was teaching them the "why" behind it. Zach wanted to understand the "why" and wanted a platform to ask questions to the QB to help him grasp and understand the reasons for what he was being asked to do things but it wasn't MLF's philosophy to do that... he wanted no part of it and looked at the QB coach to deal with that. For those who seem to forget, this is how the whole "sideline gate" started during Zach's rookie year... Zach wanted MLF on the sideline so he can communicate with him for some live coaching, but MLF was reluctant because he felt more natural calling plays to the QB coach from the booth because it allowed him to "see the field better"... in many ways, that instance was a microcosm of what went wrong over the entire 2 year span of the MLF/ZW era. He and Calabrese also were not great and developing plans for QBs; their priorities for all the guys last offseason was totally flawed, which many believe explained why Zach and Mike arrived at camp with less than ideal footwork... it's not to say they told the QBs to ignore their footwork, but the priorities they set out for them were all about playbook and that was what was backchanneled to John Beck as well. Kind of misguided if you ask me. 

What MLF and Calabrese did here is nothing short of criminal, all under the watch of Saleh. The more I read of your insights as well as other sources, it’s is mind boggling that Saleh is still the HC of this team.

[peebag]

6 hours ago, Bronx said:

Never forget...

They should have grown up in the 80's

 

[peekskill68]

2 hours ago, Dunnie said:

Do you see signing Carr as a real possibility?

Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk
 

Honestly I don't

[Patriot Killa]

1 hour ago, Flea Flicking Frank said:

you can pull up whatever the hell you want, the completion %, the TD/INT ratio, the sack rate, the QB rating was absolute dog sh*t for all 3, but if you want to pull it out, don't let me stop you, just recommend you wash your hands after

Mike White YPG: 298

Joe Flacco YPG: 210

Zach Wilson YPG: 187

———

Mike White 1st downs: 56 ( 4 games )

Joe Flacco 1st downs: 55 (5 games played/4 started)

Zach Wilson 1st downs: 72 (9 games)

———

It’s pretty easy to see who at least moved the ball better.

 

[CSNY]

7 hours ago, section314 said:

Stetson Bennett? That guy is a year away from Medicare.?

Hooker is up there as well 

[football guy]

2 hours ago, OtherwiseHappyinLife said:

I do respect / enjoy your posts and use of logic & context but here is a gap I see.  You didn’t think the Jets would get rid of MiLF yet you seem to put a heavy dose of blame on him— both presumably from chatter you are hearing inside or close to the organization.

So why would you believe the Jets were keeping MiLF if the newer argument is he was part of the Zach problem?

Afterall, you’re representing internal views of the Jets which just don’t line up if the plan has been to salvage Zach.  Why would you previously conclude that a big root of the problem would be retained to fix it?

Here’s what my logic has told me:

1. Jets would use a first round pick on a WR last year (check)

2. The Jets needed to start Mike White no later than the Bears after the Pats fiasco.  If they waited for Wilson to put up a good enough game against a weak defense, the opportunity to sit Zach might have passed or been delayed too late into the season to make their best run at the playoffs (check)

3. The Jets would fire LaFleur with a key consideration being the lack of confidence within the locker room (check)

4. The Jets will bring in Derek Carr because he’s a better fit for a young team who needs leadership and someone who is bought in

(we’ll see on this one)

5. Yes, the Jets will do their best to turn around Zach but the trade route is far more probable than the fifth year option or extension after 2024

I’ve always indicated he was part of the problem. I just think that MLF was put in an unfair position because when he was hired here, the structure proposed for him was not to be the lead voice in the QB room and OC the way many teams have it structured- it was for him to be the primary game planner, playcaller, and macro manager of the staff. It’s basically the role he had in SF but with the “OC” title + playcalling duties, with Greg Knapp being that veteran influence/oversight (which Kyle has been for MLF throughout his career) who speaks QB, coaches QB, and can kind of structure a program for the QB room while also assisting the the coordinators with the “coordinator” stuff. I also think in retrospect the Jets/Saleh put the cart before the horse. They hired Calabrese, Embree, and Austin because of what they thought they could be rather than what they are. They wanted a succession plan for MLF if/when he were to get a HC job before he was anything close to proven, and that resulted them hiring more guys with less experience which inevitably led to more responsibilities placed on MLF’s plate. MLF is not the controversial type, he was conflict avoidant and struggled with communication, so instead of demanding certain roles and responsibilities be met by others, he would ultimately do it himself. 

 Greg Knapp passed, he was asked to take on more responsibility that he was clearly not ready for, but that doesn’t mean he couldn’t be a better coordinator or play caller with additional coaching support. That’s why I defend him when he needs to be defended, but I criticize him for what he’s not good at. No one’s perfect… some of the best  osches in the game struggle in their first major roles. 
 

 

as far as the Zach Wilson stuff, I’m pretty much this close ?? to being done talking about it. Not specifically you, but a lot of people on here are know it alls when it comes to that situation and they refuse to accept that the Jets feel they have an extremely special talent on their hands who they anticipate being part of their future plans. They will not cut off their nose to spite their face, but they’re also not going to give up on him because the fans pout about it. Be critical and have your opinions all you want, but the fact is that their plan does not involve getting rid of him. They think if he can be recalibrated, he’ll eventually develop into a special player. They’re not looking at past precedent as evidence; they’re looking at it as an isolated situation where a player needs to mature and improve at the little stuff — the stuff that’s supposed to be the easiest to learn — and pair that with the hard stuff he’s capable of doing. How when where idk, but that’s what they believe and they would like for it to be with their team, so I don’t see them trading him unless it becomes abundantly clear that he can’t be salvaged here. If Derek Carr were to sign here, they’re not committing to him past 2 years. Not solely because of Zach, but because they feel the best way to build a sustainable winner in this version of the NFL is by having an athletic QB who posses second reaction, off-schedule playmaking ability both on the ground and through the air, and I don’t think they see Derek Carr being that player long-term. Maybe he can prove them wrong and force them to change their plan, but in an ideal world they win with a bridge QB while developing Zach into that player’s successor after he masters the commodity work behind the scenes. As someone else said earlier today, this much should be obvious given Zach’s arm talent, playmaking ability, and age.

[Matt39]

Off scheduled playmaking means nothing if the QB is scared of the pass rush. Wilson against any pressure has been a disaster and it’s likely not fixable. 

[OtherwiseHappyinLife]

36 minutes ago, football guy said:

I’ve always indicated he was part of the problem. I just think that MLF was put in an unfair position because when he was hired here, the structure proposed for him was not to be the lead voice in the QB room and OC the way many teams have it structured- it was for him to be the primary game planner, playcaller, and macro manager of the staff. It’s basically the role he had in SF but with the “OC” title + playcalling duties, with Greg Knapp being that veteran influence/oversight (which Kyle has been for MLF throughout his career) who speaks QB, coaches QB, and can kind of structure a program for the QB room while also assisting the the coordinators with the “coordinator” stuff. I also think in retrospect the Jets/Saleh put the cart before the horse. They hired Calabrese, Embree, and Austin because of what they thought they could be rather than what they are. They wanted a succession plan for MLF if/when he were to get a HC job before he was anything close to proven, and that resulted them hiring more guys with less experience which inevitably led to more responsibilities placed on MLF’s plate. MLF is not the controversial type, he was conflict avoidant and struggled with communication, so instead of demanding certain roles and responsibilities be met by others, he would ultimately do it himself. 

 Greg Knapp passed, he was asked to take on more responsibility that he was clearly not ready for, but that doesn’t mean he couldn’t be a better coordinator or play caller with additional coaching support. That’s why I defend him when he needs to be defended, but I criticize him for what he’s not good at. No one’s perfect… some of the best  osches in the game struggle in their first major roles. 
 

 

as far as the Zach Wilson stuff, I’m pretty much this close ?? to being done talking about it. Not specifically you, but a lot of people on here are know it alls when it comes to that situation and they refuse to accept that the Jets feel they have an extremely special talent on their hands who they anticipate being part of their future plans. They will not cut off their nose to spite their face, but they’re also not going to give up on him because the fans pout about it. Be critical and have your opinions all you want, but the fact is that their plan does not involve getting rid of him. They think if he can be recalibrated, he’ll eventually develop into a special player. They’re not looking at past precedent as evidence; they’re looking at it as an isolated situation where a player needs to mature and improve at the little stuff — the stuff that’s supposed to be the easiest to learn — and pair that with the hard stuff he’s capable of doing. How when where idk, but that’s what they believe and they would like for it to be with their team, so I don’t see them trading him unless it becomes abundantly clear that he can’t be salvaged here. If Derek Carr were to sign here, they’re not committing to him past 2 years. Not solely because of Zach, but because they feel the best way to build a sustainable winner in this version of the NFL is by having an athletic QB who posses second reaction, off-schedule playmaking ability both on the ground and through the air, and I don’t think they see Derek Carr being that player long-term. Maybe he can prove them wrong and force them to change their plan, but in an ideal world they win with a bridge QB while developing Zach into that player’s successor after he masters the commodity work behind the scenes. As someone else said earlier today, this much should be obvious given Zach’s arm talent, playmaking ability, and age.

Great insights!  You clearly have a good handle on the inner workings here.

Please keep posting and sharing your knowledge, regardless of the critics.

We all want the same thing and here’s hoping JD, Saleh & Co. solve both the short and long term at QB so we can all debate where they should have a victory parade!

[Darnold Schwarzenegger]

Broncos would have to be retarded to trade Sutton for ZW and mims. If that ever gets offered you agree immediately. ZW will be on someone’s practice squad in 2 years and mims is trash. Dude has 600 yards over 3 seasons and 0 tds lol.

[Ron Rico]

18 minutes ago, OtherwiseHappyinLife said:

 

We all want the same thing and here’s hoping JD, Saleh & Co. solve both the short and long term at QB

Yeah, we "hoped" that when JD was hired and he totally sh*t it up. Now we're left with no choice, hoping he can turn his Jackson Pollack painting into a Mona Lisa.

[Flea Flicking Frank]

3 hours ago, Patriot Killa said:

Mike White YPG: 298

Joe Flacco YPG: 210

Zach Wilson YPG: 187

———

Mike White 1st downs: 56 ( 4 games )

Joe Flacco 1st downs: 55 (5 games played/4 started)

Zach Wilson 1st downs: 72 (9 games)

———

It’s pretty easy to see who at least moved the ball better.

 

are you a politician?

Your original argument was that the other QB's ran this system easily. I said they all sucked, now your argument is about who moved the ball better, which has nothing to do with your original point. None of the 3 had good completion %, TD/INT ratio nor QBR, none of them performed welll in this system, and these stats don't prove your original point to be any less wrong

[Patriot Killa]

20 minutes ago, Flea Flicking Frank said:

are you a politician?

Your original argument was that the other QB's ran this system easily. I said they all sucked, now your argument is about who moved the ball better, which has nothing to do with your original point. None of the 3 had good completion %, TD/INT ratio nor QBR, none of them performed welll in this system, and these stats don't prove your original point to be any less wrong

Actually it’s a decent measuring stick to show they moved the sticks better with less reps, are you just trying not to get the point?

[Green Ghost]

12 hours ago, football guy said:

That's the thing: I don't think they have any desires to commit more than 2 years to Carr. It's not solely because of Zach, more so because they likely don't see Carr as a long-term elite starting QB who can lift the team around him in 2025, 2026, 2027... they think Zach has the talent to be that kind of player, but if he doesn't improve they'll look to take another QB and develop him behind Carr for a year then likely move on unless Carr (or whoever else they add) played at a level that convinces them to ditch that plan and move forward with the veteran QB

They'll get a good idea this year. Everyone has to play before knowing for sure, but I think there's enough time in training camp, preseason, practice, meetings, etc. for them to tell whether Zach took the necessary strides their looking for 

If they don’t want more than two years of Carr, they’d have never brought him to NJ this past weekend, plain and simple.

[bitonti]

10 hours ago, pointman said:

Breaking news: Some believe Zach has talent and our head coach and GM might be some of those people.

in biblical terms this is called 'original sin' 

JD/MLF/Rex Hogan/Hulk Hogan whoever thought Zach had talent enough to go 2 is going to get fired for it 

it's all over but the crying 

[bla bla bla]

30 minutes ago, Green Ghost said:

If they don’t want more than two years of Carr, they’d have never brought him to NJ this past weekend, plain and simple.

I don't think that's true. It was mutually beneficial for Carr and the Jets to meet this weekend.

1) Jets are perceived top bidder for a vet QB, Carr raises his value with them in on him

2) the report that the Jets were meeting with Carr came out before Rodgers went into darkness. I think this was meant to give Rodgers 1 more thing to think about.

 

It's entirely possible both sides have little interest in one another outside of the benefits I listed above.