For haters, JD brilliant

[Mogglez]

19 hours ago, CanadaSteve said:

And I ask again: name a GM that hasn't made multiple bad decisions over the entire course of their careers.  If we didn't have the 2nd pick in a year with one of the worst QB classes in recent memory, everyone would love JD.  With good QB play, this team makes the playoffs the past two years. 

We had 9 different linemen play multiple positions last year, and (I think) 15 different people played on OL last year for us.  And we were still in the playoff picture going into December. 

You are one of the smartest and most informed people on this board.  And I get this fan base is shell-shocked from the longest playoff drought in all four major sports, and about 10 presidents since a Super Bowl win.  But this team has more talent than any team since Rex Ryan's tenure.  Christ, Mark Sanchez could have got this team to the playoffs.  Vinny Testeverde might have got us as deep a playoff run as he did for Parcells. 

But we all know what happens after this season if the Jets do not make the playoffs: New GM, new head coach, new OC, new DC, new coaching staff, new starting QB.  If that is the route we go, the next GM will be better set up than any of the last four ever were.  Not sure why that is so hard for some to accept.  

1st - I appreciate the compliment.  I extend the same to you.  I always appreciate posters who will engage in actual football discussions and don’t devolve the conversation to something else.

While I agree with your overall sentiment re: the team this year, when discussing JDs overall history, we are not talking about 1 or 2 mishaps here or there.  His 2020 draft class was an absolute disaster.  The red flags on Becton were there for all to see but he still took him over Wirfs (if he still wanted to go OL) AND CeeDee Lamb (WR was, arguably, a MUCH bigger value, as well as need, for that team.)  His 2nd round pick was a ghost, one of his 3rd round picks didn’t make the roster his rookie year, the other was never more than a special teams/backup level player, he wasted a 4th round pick on a QB who might have been an UDFA, Perine was a waste, Braden Mann was one of the worst punters in football, Cameron Clarke I won’t hold against him, and Bryce Hall had a handful of good games but was, mostly, bad.

That draft set up an ABYSMAL 2020 season, that spelled the end of a QB we invested the 3rd overall pick in, and while hindsight tells us that QB class was not so great, that is not how it was viewed at the time.  That being said, it’s Joe Douglas’ job to make that determination and he passed on a legitimate kings ransom, as well as potential blue chip players in Sewell or Pitts to go along with that ransom, in order to take Zach Wilson, despite the many very glaring needs the Jets had spread across the team.  Once again, the most glaring of these needs were the skill position players and OL.

The OL has been a disaster for entire tenure.  That, above all else, needs to be addressed.  First it was penny pinching, then it was bad signings/draft picks followed by injuries to those players, and now he’s banking on a guy he never should have let walk in favor of Becton, a very bad LG, and an Elite LT with a checkered injury history staying healthy.  I like where our line is at on paper.  Tyron Smith was my number one FA target.  That being said, being good on paper means nothing.  We’re in this predicament because the paper has never translated to the field.  There are no more excuses for Joe.

Make the playoffs…

Win a playoff game…

…or go home.

The same can be said for the head coach that he hired, who has been a big disappointment in his own right.

[bicketybam]

1 hour ago, Prodigal Syndicate said:

I'd wager you're in your late 50s/early 60s.

 

[greenwichjetfan]

1 hour ago, The Crusher said:

Uhhh wut?

Lol. Unnecessarily optimistic, I know.

Just pointing out that even the great Ozzie Newsome struck out hard with Boller before getting himself Joe Flacco.

Granted, Newsome had already picked 3 HoFers and countless other all pros and won a Super Bowl before Boller, but let’s not be picky!!

[SackExchangeNYJ]

1 hour ago, CanadaSteve said:

And I ask again: name a GM that hasn't made multiple bad decisions over the entire course of their careers.  If we didn't have the 2nd pick in a year with one of the worst QB classes in recent memory, everyone would love JD.  With good QB play, this team makes the playoffs the past two years. 

We had 9 different linemen play multiple positions last year, and (I think) 15 different people played on OL last year for us.  And we were still in the playoff picture going into December. 

You are one of the smartest and most informed people on this board.  And I get this fan base is shell-shocked from the longest playoff drought in all four major sports, and about 10 presidents since a Super Bowl win.  But this team has more talent than any team since Rex Ryan's tenure.  Christ, Mark Sanchez could have got this team to the playoffs.  Vinny Testeverde might have got us as deep a playoff run as he did for Parcells. 

But we all know what happens after this season if the Jets do not make the playoffs: New GM, new head coach, new OC, new DC, new coaching staff, new starting QB.  If that is the route we go, the next GM will be better set up than any of the last four ever were.  Not sure why that is so hard for some to accept.  

This pretty much sums up everything I have thought for a while. It's as if Jets fans live in an imaginary world where every other team only makes good decisions, and the Jets are the only ones who ever miss on a draft pick, a trade, or a free agent signing. 

There is also the question of the Jets' past being used to bash current regimes. I don't know why anyone would want to take this job. The fans hold the incumbent GM responsible for a half-century of failures. The job is always a win-now because no front office is afforded the patience to actually tear down what their predecessors had done and rebuild their own way. If the team isn't good immediately, Jets fans act like...well, Jets fans. The banners and billboards that Jets fans use to call for GMs to be fired force front offices to have to prematurely go into win-now mode, putting a team together through aging free agents rather than building up a base with the draft. JD has barely escaped this, as the calls for his firing have come from Jets fans despite the fleecing of teams like the Seahawks and Panthers in trades and one of the greatest drafts in NFL history. He is now going all-in, in part because of the closing window with the QB and doubtless in part because of the pressure being put on Woody by the fans. He might have lucked out with the timing, but I am hoping that a strong couple seasons will give him the credibility with the fans to be allowed to build the team his way, and not at the whim of the fan base's desire for immediate results.

[GreenFish]

16 minutes ago, SackExchangeNYJ said:

This pretty much sums up everything I have thought for a while. It's as if Jets fans live in an imaginary world where every other team only makes good decisions, and the Jets are the only ones who ever miss on a draft pick, a trade, or a free agent signing. 

There is also the question of the Jets' past being used to bash current regimes. I don't know why anyone would want to take this job. The fans hold the incumbent GM responsible for a half-century of failures. The job is always a win-now because no front office is afforded the patience to actually tear down what their predecessors had done and rebuild their own way. If the team isn't good immediately, Jets fans act like...well, Jets fans. The banners and billboards that Jets fans use to call for GMs to be fired force front offices to have to prematurely go into win-now mode, putting a team together through aging free agents rather than building up a base with the draft. JD has barely escaped this, as the calls for his firing have come from Jets fans despite the fleecing of teams like the Seahawks and Panthers in trades and one of the greatest drafts in NFL history. He is now going all-in, in part because of the closing window with the QB and doubtless in part because of the pressure being put on Woody by the fans. He might have lucked out with the timing, but I am hoping that a strong couple seasons will give him the credibility with the fans to be allowed to build the team his way, and not at the whim of the fan base's desire for immediate results.

The Jets are 27-56 (0.325) under Joe Douglas. Jets fans don’t have to hold him accountable for a half century of failure. The past 5 years are sufficient. He hasn’t had a winning season. Those are the facts.

Even if you assume the first two years were a function of the prior GM and just focus on the last 3 years, he’s 18-33 (0.353).

[SackExchangeNYJ]

4 minutes ago, GreenFish said:

The Jets are 27-56 (0.325) under Joe Douglas. Jets fans don’t have to hold him accountable for a quarter century of failure. The past 5 years are sufficient. He hasn’t had a winning season. Those are the facts.

Even if you assume the first two years were a function of the prior GM and just focus on the last 3 years, he’s 18-33 (0.353).

Agreed. And part of that is on him with Zach, whether he listened to the wrong people or not. The pick is on him. Part of it is on unprecedented injuries. Part of it is on some missteps when it has come to signings, like Laken Tomlinson or Lazard.

But his drafts have brought Sauce, GW, JJ, Tippmann, AVT, Breece, MC2. He fleeced the Seahawks and Panthers in trades. And he has signed guys who have panned out, like DJ Reed and Quincy Williams. Yeah, he's had his missteps, but who is the last Jets GM to have as many hits as JD has had in the draft and free agency? I know, judging him against his predecessors is a pretty low bar, but the roster is in far better shape both short-term and long-term than the one he inherited. The record doesn't reflect it, which is the ultimate litmus test, and I get that. But from any objective view, the roster is FAR better off since JD became Jets' GM.

[southparkcpa]

14 hours ago, Prodigal Syndicate said:

Joe Douglas fans are never louder than the off season. Love to beat their chests and declare every move a brilliant winner that will work out.

Then the games start and they shrink and start complaining people are negative.

His moves might work out, but like most things, most of these moves are boom or bust with high probability of bust. He signed a bunch of players with injury concerns in a team who consistently has tons of injuries because he keeps bringing these types in.

 

 

 

JD is like the arsonist who then puts out the fire.  His signing are all way above average age for the NFL. If he could draft marginally better, maybe he wouldn't need to be the off season JN superstar.  

[southparkcpa]

2 hours ago, CanadaSteve said:

It's hard to respond to guys like you.  You cannot change their negative mindset.  Feel free to apply to be the next Jets GM.

Couldn't do much worse.   I have worked with many top execs in business who I would feel very comfortable with as GM.  They delegate, make reasoned decisions based on probability etc. JD shoots from the hip. He is just slightly better than MAC and his record is worse.

[dcJet]

47 minutes ago, GreenFish said:

The Jets are 27-56 (0.325) under Joe Douglas. Jets fans don’t have to hold him accountable for a half century of failure. The past 5 years are sufficient. He hasn’t had a winning season. Those are the facts.

Even if you assume the first two years were a function of the prior GM and just focus on the last 3 years, he’s 18-33 (0.353).

Yeah, This is Joe's team and vision.  He's been here forever in GM years.

He's brought in some nice players but every team has some nice players after a 4 years of drafting in the top 10.  That's not anything that's special.  The hard part is filling out the rest of the roster with youth, depth and talent and a competent coaching staff.

 

 

 

[GreenFish]

44 minutes ago, SackExchangeNYJ said:

Agreed. And part of that is on him with Zach, whether he listened to the wrong people or not. The pick is on him. Part of it is on unprecedented injuries. Part of it is on some missteps when it has come to signings, like Laken Tomlinson or Lazard.

But his drafts have brought Sauce, GW, JJ, Tippmann, AVT, Breece, MC2. He fleeced the Seahawks and Panthers in trades. And he has signed guys who have panned out, like DJ Reed and Quincy Williams. Yeah, he's had his missteps, but who is the last Jets GM to have as many hits as JD has had in the draft and free agency? I know, judging him against his predecessors is a pretty low bar, but the roster is in far better shape both short-term and long-term than the one he inherited. The record doesn't reflect it, which is the ultimate litmus test, and I get that. But from any objective view, the roster is FAR better off since JD became Jets' GM.

Don’t really disagree with anything you said. He has done better then the last two GMs. The QB position has been his down fall. Two years derailed by a bad draft pick. And last year was derailed by Rodgers getting hurt.

He’s getting another chance this year. 

[CanadaSteve]

5 hours ago, Mogglez said:

1st - I appreciate the compliment.  I extend the same to you.  I always appreciate posters who will engage in actual football discussions and don’t devolve the conversation to something else.

While I agree with your overall sentiment re: the team this year, when discussing JDs overall history, we are not talking about 1 or 2 mishaps here or there.  His 2020 draft class was an absolute disaster.  The red flags on Becton were there for all to see and he still took him over Wirfs (if he still wanted to go OL) AND CeeDee Lamb (WR was, arguably, a MUCH bigger value and need for that team.)  His 2nd round pick was a ghost, one of his 3rd round picks didn’t make the roster his rookie year, the other was never more than a special teams/backup level player, he wasted a 4th round pick on a QB who might have been an UDFA, Perine was a waste, Braden Mann was one of the worst punters in football, Cameron Clarke I won’t hold against him, and Bryce Hall had a and full of good games but was, mostly, bad.

That draft set up an ABYSMAL 2020 season, that spelled the end of a QB we invested the 3rd overall pick in, and while hindsight tells us that QB class was not so great, that is not how it was viewed at the time.  That being said, it’s Joe Douglas’ job to make that determination and he passed on a legitimate kings ransom, as well as potential blue chip players in Sewell or Pitts to go along with that ransom, in order to take Zach Wilson, despite the many very glaring needs the Jets had spread across the team.  Once again, the most glaring of these needs were the skill position players and OL.

The OL has been a disaster for entire tenure.  That, above all else, needs to be addressed.  First it was penny pinching, then it was bad signings/draft picks followed by injuries to those players, and now he’s banking on a guy he never should have let walk in favor of Becton, a very bad LG, and an Elite LT with a checkered injury history staying healthy.  I like where our line is at on paper.  Tyron Smith was my number one FA target.  That being said, being good on paper means nothing.  We’re in this predicament because the paper has never translated to the field.  There are no more excuses for Joe.

Make the playoffs…

Win a playoff game…

…or go home.

The same can be said for the head coach that he hired, who has been a big disappointment in his own right.

I do not disagree with anything you have said.  Now, you might know more inside stuff about what Joe could have got for the 2nd overall pick.  I think the sin with his pick is the sin EVERY GM seems to make, especially new ones:  When they get a chance, they go out and get THEIR QB.  

Who knows? Sam Darnold with Sewell and some draft talent might have got us to the playoffs.  We will never know.

Lots of bad luck (injuries) and lots of bad QB play.  There are no more excuses.  Playoffs or gone.  

But as stated in another post, IF JD goes next year, he will leave this team in FAR FAR better shape than how Tannenbaum had left Idzik (even though Tannenbaum did fairly well), and how Idzik left Maccagnan, and how Maccagnan left Joe Douglas.  

[Larz]

The problem was Hogan all along 

 

 

j/k

 

It’s pretty obvious to me based on what Moses and Smith and Williams have said that Rodgers is a draw. 
 

If they can get a 3 down DE, S going into the draft , grab Bowers, “ on paper” it’s a top 10 roster.  

[CanadaSteve]

7 hours ago, GreenFish said:

The Jets are 27-56 (0.325) under Joe Douglas. Jets fans don’t have to hold him accountable for a half century of failure. The past 5 years are sufficient. He hasn’t had a winning season. Those are the facts.

Even if you assume the first two years were a function of the prior GM and just focus on the last 3 years, he’s 18-33 (0.353).

We'll put you down as "1 VOTE AGAINST JOE DOUGLAS."

Now, here is a good question:  The next GM, whoever he/she/it is.  Would you rather have the roster that JD will hand over, or would you rather have the 2019 roster when JD took the job?  Or the 2015 roster when MM took the job?  Or the 2013 roster when Idzik took the job?  

The desperation for winning, and the WIN NOW obsession of the fan base, fueled by a relentless media machine, and the continual choice of picking rookie for the GM position is a recipe for a gigantic disaster. 

Personally, I would take this roster that JD has built.  It could be a QB away from ten years of success.  But he won't be steering the ship if the playoffs elude us for another season. 

[GangGreened]

Results.

You can put together the prettiest team on paper, if they don’t win, GTFO.

[CanadaSteve]

3 hours ago, GreenFish said:

Don’t really disagree with anything you said. He has done better then the last two GMs. The QB position has been his down fall. Two years derailed by a bad draft pick. And last year was derailed by Rodgers getting hurt.

He’s getting another chance this year. 

Completely fair assessment.  I liked most of the first year draft picks.  Unfortunately, none of them worked.  In hindsight, the VERY first pick should not have been such a swing for the fences type pick.  It was more like swing to knock the ball out of the park, rather than a solid base hit to get things going.  But man - had that have connected!  

[BornJetsFan1983]

19 hours ago, Ghost said:

😂😂😂 bravo, sir. I’ll be the first to tell you JD killed it in free agency but if you think this makes up for all of the idiotic decisions he has made, then you are absolutely delusional. 

it was not his decision to have players get hurt, it was not his choice to lose games or have an OC that sucks etc. You blame him for stuff he did not do. But if you get past your whole bitter SOJF attitude you will see he has been doing an spectacular job since day 1. 

Just saying

[BornJetsFan1983]

19 hours ago, Mogglez said:

This is the 4th time that I’m going to say this to you:

Joe Douglas has had a good free agency.  That doesn’t mean it’s all been perfect and I still don’t like the Simpson signing.

If you’re going to tag me in your posts, please possess a basic level of reading comprehension.

deny it all you want, but you have no reason to hate on simpson, he is great fit and player.  

[Ghost]

43 minutes ago, BornJetsFan1983 said:

it was not his decision to have players get hurt, it was not his choice to lose games or have an OC that sucks etc. You blame him for stuff he did not do. But if you get past your whole bitter SOJF attitude you will see he has been doing an spectacular job since day 1. 

Just saying

The difference between me and you is I can give him credit and criticize him. I gave him credit regarding the free agent signings this year. I think he’s doing a fantastic job. 
 

Are you going to criticize him for the 2020 draft? You mentioned GMs make a mistake here and there and that is 100% true. What kind of person drafts the following players without criticism: Becton, Mims, Ashtyn Davis and Zuniga in the 3rd, Perine in the 4th, James Morgan, Cam Clarke, Bryce Hall who is no longer on the team, and Braden Man.  Is that a mistake or a colossal **** up? 
 

He was completely wrong on Wilson and I honestly don’t blame him. What I do blame him for is the fact he stuck out with him time after time after time. If you look at other franchises like the 49ers, notice they cut ties with their mistake and not try to justify it. 
 

Let’s take a look at some of the players he signed previously and this is off the top of my head: Tomlinson, CJ Uzomah, Dalvin Cook, Allen Lazard, Carl Lawson. 
 

How about letting Morgan Moses walk for nothing! 
 

How about Bryce Huff? He had to either trade him last year or extend him. We lost him this year and got sh*tted on. 
 

How about his stubbornness and the refusal to bring in a veteran QB after Rodgers went down? Nope, he went with his QB after all the signs were there that he is not an NFL caliber QB. 
 

If it wasn’t for the 2020 NFL draft class, the 2021 would be talked about a lot more. It was ******* awful. 
 

Please do NOT sit here and tell me this man has done a great job. It is absolutely ridiculous. He’s 30 games below 500, we haven’t made the playoffs since 2010. That’s 14 ******* years ago. We haven’t even been close to making the playoffs during his tenure. 
 

just saying. 

[doitny]

21 hours ago, Mogglez said:

5 years ago Joe came here with a specific goal to fix the QB room, OL, and WRs.

5 years later we are celebrating his latest attempts to do so after Sam Darnold, James Morgan, Zach Wilson, Denzel Mims, Breshad Perriman, Keelan Cole, Elijah Moore, Mecole Hardman, Randall Cobb, Allen Lazard, Ryan Kalil, Mekhi Becton, Conor McGovern, Alex Lewis Greg Van Roten, Duane Brown, Laken Tomlinson, Nate Herbig, Cedric Ogbuehi, and Max Mitchell didn’t get the job done at those respective units, under his leadership.

I’m happy with the off-season so far.  I’m not even day dreaming about a possible extension for Joe right now.

great points. but its courius how its all the offense. for the most part except for Lawson he has done a real good job on defense. im sure Saleh should get alot of credit for that too.

he struck out of on the biggest position in football. the QB. but i think if we had decent QB play that list wouldnt look so bad.

yeah guys like Mims and Cobb would still be busts but especially the WRs would have been better than they were if the guy throwing it to them werent the worst in the league.

just saying its strange how a GM cant be so good getting players on one side of the ball and not the other. thats why in not as down on JD as some other people. its not a coincidence that we had the worst QB in the NFL for 3 years and almost every offensive player JD brought in was bad.

 

[Mogglez]

5 hours ago, BornJetsFan1983 said:

deny it all you want, but you have no reason to hate on simpson, he is great fit and player.  

Hope he is.  The numbers say he isn’t and wont be.

[BornJetsFan1983]

On 3/20/2024 at 8:44 PM, Mogglez said:

Hope he is.  The numbers say he isn’t and wont be.

Im not sure what numbers you look at but what I have read is quite a diff story. It's of a low draft pick becoming a starter and then eventually getting starting job in Baltimore on the coattails of his coaches praises and doing something extraordinary, taking the starting job, earning it, not being given it.

On top of everything else the number back him up as good player, specifically suiting to help our run and pass game 

You say the numbers don't add up but that is your hater opinion. Here is the numbers from an unbiased source. To save you the trouble of reading it, it says he is good not a liability and if anything a big plus.

https://jetsxfactor.com/2024/03/12/ny-jets-john-simpson-breakdown-film-stats/

[jetstream23]

He bought himself a season with talented, injury-risk players at the Jets two most needy spots, OT and WR.  If he's smart he will hedge his bet by taking advantage of a deep offensive Draft and hitting on at least one of those positions early.  Need to mitigate the injury risk for THIS season AND be prepared to replace one of these $15-20M guys (Tyron Smith, Mike Williams) for NEXT season.  Keep in mind that the Jets supposed window is 2 more years with Rodgers.  As appetizing as it would be to take a Bowers or the WR4, I'd absolutely take one of the Top 3 OTs if they're on the Board.

[Mogglez]

7 hours ago, BornJetsFan1983 said:

Im not sure what numbers you look at but what I have read is quite a diff story. It's of a low draft pick becoming a starter and then eventually getting starting job in Baltimore on the coattails of his coaches praises and doing something extraordinary, taking the starting job, earning it, not being given it.

On top of everything else the number back him up as good player, specifically suiting to help our run and pass game 

You say the numbers don't add up but that is your hater opinion. Here is the numbers from an unbiased source. To save you the trouble of reading it, it says he is good not a liability and if anything a big plus.

https://jetsxfactor.com/2024/03/12/ny-jets-john-simpson-breakdown-film-stats/

The one thing this awful site (PFF) is consistently good for is OL grades.  They say he’s not a starting caliber LG.  His 11 penalties are, very bad.

”The numbers from an ‘unbiased source’” - you literally posted a “film review” from “JetsXFactor”, written by Michael Nania, one of the biggest green Pom-Pom waving cheerleaders on social media.

The best PROVEN thing about Simpson is his RAS score.  He has a good amount of athleticism and he is relatively young, so he can still improve.  Excuse me for not being hopeful that Keith Carter will be the one to help him do that.

[Claymation]

On 3/20/2024 at 8:41 AM, Sonny Werblin said:

Who said that Norman Bates?

[Claymation]

[BornJetsFan1983]

7 hours ago, Mogglez said:

The one thing this awful site (PFF) is consistently good for is OL grades.  They say he’s not a starting caliber LG.  His 11 penalties are, very bad.

”The numbers from an ‘unbiased source’” - you literally posted a “film review” from “JetsXFactor”, written by Michael Nania, one of the biggest green Pom-Pom waving cheerleaders on social media.

The best PROVEN thing about Simpson is his RAS score.  He has a good amount of athleticism and he is relatively young, so he can still improve.  Excuse me for not being hopeful that Keith Carter will be the one to help him do that.

I don't believe in Keith he is terrible but I do think Simpson is more than good on the line and you will change your tune as the season goes on

[Mogglez]

15 hours ago, BornJetsFan1983 said:

I don't believe in Keith he is terrible but I do think Simpson is more than good on the line and you will change your tune as the season goes on

Again:

I hope so, but I’ll believe it when I see it.  I’m not giving this regime anymore “benefit of the doubt.”

[Jet_Engine1]

On 3/20/2024 at 12:53 PM, southparkcpa said:

JD is like the arsonist who then puts out the fire.  

We call those guys "Volunteer Firefighters"...

 

 

 

I kid, I kid.... 

 

👀 

[BornJetsFan1983]

2 hours ago, Mogglez said:

Again:

I hope so, but I’ll believe it when I see it.  I’m not giving this regime anymore “benefit of the doubt.”

Again hater