Why Clemens is not as good as some people think

[SoFlaJets]

this from AG's latest blog on today's OTA....

"The Jets concentrated on their red-zone play today and Chad Pennington was throwing some nice balls, connecting with Justin McCareins

[#27TheDominator]

Hey 124, good buddy how you doing, um what the hell are you arguing?

I dont know what the point of you writing all this was, um I agree and have said the same thing. whats different? umm oh the first sentence you got there obviouly Drew Jon and Vinney are not better. But if you were to compare veteran Drew Jon and Vinney to rookie Tom Carson and Chad umm I think its fair to say that the vets win. Even though later on they surpass them. Its the same with Chad and Kellen. Im all for Kellen could be better after he learns and grow into a starter but right now he not. To say so is wrong in my opinion. Thats the point, Chad is the best for the team right now. Argument over. When you say Clemens should start right now and noodle arm should be out, your wrong. I will concede this, if Old Helen Clemens has grown and surpassed chad, which I highly doubt, (its too soon for him and Chad has earned his spot). I would support Kellen Leading the Jets. But in reality if you had it the way you wanted you would ruin Kellen, putting him in too soon would arguably do more damage to the Jets than not starting Chad this year.

Oh and btw I read the Barton/Ecurb debate....I noticed Barton lost,huh go figure...

Dont worry guys Kellen will play soon enough, but right now its all about Chad, and should be.

Maybe you should check the attitude if you don't like boom boom comparisons. Especially when you claim you agree with him. There is no reason your opinion on Chad/Clemens is more valid than anyone else's. None of us has seen either of them throw in '07. Start your yapping after some real camp reports and preseason games.

[BornJetsFan1983]

What did you eat stupid flakes this morning? My opinion of Chad is good and probably will beat out a guy like Clemens who should get some more time develop is way differant that chad sucks and Clemens should play now. You're really dominating a useless argument...

[#27TheDominator]

What did you eat stupid flakes this morning? My opinion of Chad is good and probably will beat out a guy like Clemens who should get some more time develop is way differant that chad sucks and Clemens should play now. You're really dominating a useless argument...

Truer words have never been said.

[BornJetsFan1983]

Truer words have never been said.

Wow so your just using my words, against me that's clever your like a clever word smith or something. Heres a little word smithing of my own to prove my "cliam"

what your boy said

"It is proven that more recently, more success comes when a guy sits on the bench and learns the system for a year or two before being thrown into the fire. ****. "

lol what I said before him

"Its not Clemens' fault he's not better than Chad, Im not saying that. He's just like every other QB, he needs time to develop. Thats how it goes(young, brady, they come to mind) But he's not better than **** right now. Hes a back up learning."

SO he agreed with me, no? I said clemens needs time to learn and be a back up to be better that chad and so did 124. Your right what an outragous "cliam", I guess my boom boom attitude blinds me to realizing that Kellen is better than chad. At least you can make text bolder that should out weigh your skills in making **** up, which you dominate

[BornJetsFan1983]

this from AG's latest blog on today's OTA....

"The Jets concentrated on their red-zone play today and Chad Pennington was throwing some nice balls, connecting with Justin McCareins

[#27TheDominator]

Wow so your just using my words, against me that's clever your like a clever word smith or something. Heres a little word smithing of my own to prove my "cliam"

what your boy said

"It is proven that more recently, more success comes when a guy sits on the bench and learns the system for a year or two before being thrown into the fire. ****. "

lol what I said before him

"Its not Clemens' fault he's not better than Chad, Im not saying that. He's just like every other QB, he needs time to develop. Thats how it goes(young, brady, they come to mind) But he's not better than **** right now. Hes a back up learning."

SO he agreed with me, no? I said clemens needs time to learn and be a back up to be better that chad and so did 124. Your right what an outragous "cliam", I guess my boom boom attitude blinds me to realizing that Kellen is better than chad. At least you can make text bolder that should out weigh your skills in making **** up, which you dominate

So I made **** up by using your own words? Dude, I quit. I never had a problem with your opinion, just your attitude. You've really proved me wrong with this bull**** diatribe.

Have a good night. Peace.

PS: Why do you keep writing "cliam" in quotes? I don't think I misspelled claim, who did?

[DMaynard]

We don't know squat about Clemens. Mangini has been watching him in practice for a year. The Jets showed no interest in David Carr when he was available. The Jets showed no interest in Brady Quinn when they were in a position to draft him.

Conclusion: Clemens has real potential.

[BornJetsFan1983]

So I made **** up by using your own words? Dude, I quit. I never had a problem with your opinion, just your attitude. You've really proved me wrong with this bull**** diatribe.

Have a good night. Peace.

PS: Why do you keep writing "cliam" in quotes? I don't think I misspelled claim, who did?

My bad I not trying to have an attitude, Im probably just getting frustrated. I just think its crazy to argue any more on this...I stated my case and they stated thiers. cool, Im going to leave it be, Oh and i put cliam in qoutes not because of spelling but I dont think it was a claim thats all. Any how well see what happens after mini camp. untill then

[The Troll]

My bad I not trying to have an attitude, Im probably just getting frustrated. I just think its crazy to argue any more on this...I stated my case and they stated thiers. cool, Im going to leave it be, Oh and i put cliam in qoutes not because of spelling but I dont think it was a claim thats all. Any how well see what happens after mini camp. untill then

Is English your first language?

You write like Sammy Sosa talks.

[Ghost]

Is English your first language?

You write like Sammy Sosa talks.

LMAOOOOO

That's F***** up dude.

[BornJetsFan1983]

Is English your first language?

You write like Sammy Sosa talks.

Good one, did you come up with that or one of your Clemens wives club buddies?

[jetophile]

I'm too tired.

[Thai Jet]

Good one, did you come up with that or one of your Clemens wives club buddies?

:rl:

[#27TheDominator]

I'm too tired.

I think you're just right.

[124]

Mangini has been watching him in practice for a year. The Jets showed no interest in David Carr when he was available. The Jets showed no interest in Brady Quinn when they were in a position to draft him.

Conclusion: Clemens has real potential.

Indeed. Well said. If the Jets didn't think that Kellen was the eventual successor, they would've brought in some serious competition to compete against him for the back-up role, not Marques Tuiassapussy.

[dbatesman]

Why does Chad v. Kellen have to be so polarized? Can't we just go with the flow over this? If Chad doesn't win the job, so what? If Chad wins the job, doesn't that mean that Chad performed better. No QB ever got better by being thrust into the fray, especially Kellen, who was pegged as a developmental pick before the draft.

POTW. The first sane argument in the Chad/Clemens debate that I've heard in months.

[BornJetsFan1983]

Indeed. Well said. If the Jets didn't think that Kellen was the eventual successor, they would've brought in some serious competition to compete against him for the back-up role, not Marques Tuiassapussy.

so true, no one disputes that

[Maxman]

We have no idea how good Clemens is.

The only thing we know is that Chad picked up the offense fast enough to give the Jets the best chance to win right away.

I do know that unless Chad can prove that he can throw the deep ball, teams are going to continue to crowd the line. Even Thomas Jones can't run if there are 8 in the box.

Well people putting 8 in the box would be a good thing. Last year they didn't have to and the Jets still couldn't run. If the Jets running game becomes such that defenders are stacking the line of scrimmage to stop it, Chad will be fine. More than fine. That would be a good problem for them to have actually.

[Pragmatic Bus]

i cant beleive we are still hovering over this issue. jets dont have a problem at the QB position. jets need o-line and d-line help. thats what we should be talking about. clemens would have been a first rounder if he hadn't had that injury.

[PeterNorth09]

i cant beleive we are still hovering over this issue. jets dont have a problem at the QB position. jets need o-line and d-line help. thats what we should be talking about. clemens would have been a first rounder if he hadn't had that injury.

I agree that O-line and D-line are still areas of concern but I doubt Clemens would have been a first round pick without the injury, even if it the Jets and Vikings were in love with him. Like Clemens or not, you have to admit he is not a prototype NFL QB with his lack of size and in the draft teams look for what is typically good at a position, big athletic quarterbacks.

[Jetsfan80]

jets dont have a problem at the QB position.

Wrong. For several reasons:

1) The main goal of any franchise is to win a Super Bowl. Without an elite QB, that task is very difficult. The anomally can occur, such as Trent Dilfer, but even then he had a dominant Ravens defense surrounding him. We don't have a dominant defense.

2) For the first time in his NFL career, Chad Pennington played a full 16-game season. He's one for seven in that department. Thus, if we are to assume Pennington will miss time due to an inevitable injury, 2nd-year QB Kellen Clemens takes over, with only one NFL throw to his name.

3) Even with a healthy Pennington, we are limited by his inability to make all throws effectively. The fly, deep out, corner and deep post routes are virtually non-existant in our offense with Chad behind center. Hence, when we face top defenses, Chad has failed throughout his career. The New England Patriots are one of those teams he has failed against, and that is the team we need to get past if we want any hope of winning a championship.

[BornJetsFan1983]

Wrong. For several reasons:

1) The main goal of any franchise is to win a Super Bowl. Without an elite QB, that task is very difficult. The anomally can occur, such as Trent Dilfer, but even then he had a dominant Ravens defense surrounding him. We don't have a dominant defense.

2) For the first time in his NFL career, Chad Pennington played a full 16-game season. He's one for seven in that department. Thus, if we are to assume Pennington will miss time due to an inevitable injury, 2nd-year QB Kellen Clemens takes over, with only one NFL throw to his name.

3) Even with a healthy Pennington, we are limited by his inability to make all throws effectively. The fly, deep out, corner and deep post routes are virtually non-existant in our offense with Chad behind center. Hence, when we face top defenses, Chad has failed throughout his career. The New England Patriots are one of those teams he has failed against, and that is the team we need to get past if we want any hope of winning a championship.

Why your wrong I think

1 Are Qb's Elite before or after they win the SB? Look nothing worth doing is easy, just cause its hard doenst mean ****.

2 Assume...Ass out of U and Me. C'mon really? so since he has overcome all this adversity we are supposed to say he going to get injured for sure this season? I would think he would be in the best possible postition to win this year, rolling off last years success.

3 Hmm...So Chad is not a deep passer? The Jets offense plays to chad stregths not weaknesses, we seem to be able to win with him at the helm and now there should be a great run game this year. Pass action was good befor now I would think its better, No? I thought we shoul dhave beat the colts last year, dont know if you caught the game and we did beat The Pats. Hell we played a great 3 qtrs in the playoffs. I guess we might need an edge, so lets throw in the Kellen, or feed off last years success and now rely on off season aquisitions and good coaching. The latter which has been proved very effective.

[Pragmatic Bus]

I agree that O-line and D-line are still areas of concern but I doubt Clemens would have been a first round pick without the injury, even if it the Jets and Vikings were in love with him. Like Clemens or not, you have to admit he is not a prototype NFL QB with his lack of size and in the draft teams look for what is typically good at a position, big athletic quarterbacks.

well that shows how much you know about college scouting. watch espn stop wasting my time plz

Wrong. For several reasons:

1) The main goal of any franchise is to win a Super Bowl. Without an elite QB, that task is very difficult. The anomally can occur, such as Trent Dilfer, but even then he had a dominant Ravens defense surrounding him. We don't have a dominant defense.

2) For the first time in his NFL career, Chad Pennington played a full 16-game season. He's one for seven in that department. Thus, if we are to assume Pennington will miss time due to an inevitable injury, 2nd-year QB Kellen Clemens takes over, with only one NFL throw to his name.

3) Even with a healthy Pennington, we are limited by his inability to make all throws effectively. The fly, deep out, corner and deep post routes are virtually non-existant in our offense with Chad behind center. Hence, when we face top defenses, Chad has failed throughout his career. The New England Patriots are one of those teams he has failed against, and that is the team we need to get past if we want any hope of winning a championship.

is big ben an elite QB. NO! he won a championship in his second year.

is chad not better than benny boy? absolutely

so how come we have a QB issue. we dont

games are won and lost in the trenches. always remember that

[PeterNorth09]

well that shows how much you know about college scouting. watch espn stop wasting my time plz

Clemens wasn't even the 4th highest ranked QB coming out in 2006 after the big 3 Young, Leinart and Cutler. It was Brodie Croyle. Now I think Clemens will be much better than Brodie Croyle, who is an injury prone loser, but Croyle was at the time ranked higher by most people watching the draft that year. It just so happened the Vikings and Jets were both in love with Clemens otherwise he would have probably fallen to the third round like Broken did.

[Jetsfan80]

is big ben an elite QB. NO! he won a championship in his second year.

is chad not better than benny boy? absolutely

so how come we have a QB issue. we dont

games are won and lost in the trenches. always remember that

If you had bothered to read ALL of the post I made, you would have realized that I did not make a simple black & white statement and say that ONLY elite QB's win Super Bowls. I said that, if you do not have an elite QB, (such as the 2000 Ravens), a dominant defense can get it done (much like the Steeler team you speak of).

Unfortunately, we do NOT have a dominant defense. Until then, our QB situation IS an issue, because our starter is, at best, slightly above average.

[bitonti]

I don't think Chad is bad. I'm one of his biggest supporters here. Still, he has a weak arm.

Clemens is short. Neither player is what you would call a perfect specimen.

this Clemens thing is way out of control.

This is the NFL you don't hand people starting jobs they don't deserve. When Mangini announces that Clemens is the starter, then I will take notice. Until then, he's a backup until proven otherwise.

do Jets fans really think they know more than Mangini about who should be the starter?

This coach will play the best player regardless of age or contract - if it's Chad, you should believe him. Mangini would not leave a better player on the bench for political reasons.

[#27TheDominator]

Clemens is short. Neither player is what you would call a perfect specimen.

this Clemens thing is way out of control.

This is the NFL you don't hand people starting jobs they don't deserve. When Mangini announces that Clemens is the starter, then I will take notice. Until then, he's a backup until proven otherwise.

do Jets fans really think they know more than Mangini about who should be the starter?

This coach will play the best player regardless of age or contract - if it's Chad, you should believe him. Mangini would not leave a better player on the bench for political reasons.

You really took my comment out of context. I was just explaining why everybody is not in love with Pennington. I couldn't agree more with most of your post, except there are times when a player shows in limited duty or preseason that they deserve playing time. Clemens hasn't done that yet. I reserve my right to call for a new starter based on his play in the preseason. Like we all called for a more carries for Lamont Jordan. I'm not going to just accept that the coach is right. Otherwise I wouldn't post here or be a big think-he-knows-it-all. In this case, I agree with the coach.

[Barton]

I think its gotta be harder to judge Clemens in practice if he just works with the 2nd team offense, which seems to be what he's working with exclusively. But who knows for sure if he's getting any 1st reps but I doubt he is.

[nj meadowlands]

Okay and what about when he works AGAINST the second team defense?

[johnny green balls]

I think its gotta be harder to judge Clemens in practice if he just works with the 2nd team offense, which seems to be what he's working with exclusively. But who knows for sure if he's getting any 1st reps but I doubt he is.

he better be getting some first team work. he'll need to be ready in case chad goes down.

[Barton]

Okay and what about when he works AGAINST the second team defense?

I dont think that would help Clemens get any better.

He should be judged on his work with the 1st team offense, not the 2nd team scrub cast. JMO.

[Sperm Edwards]

I'm not Pennington's biggest fan (to say the least), but this team is not in 100% rebuilding mode. Though we don't have the conference's best talent (clearly), Mangini thinks that coaching can make up for at least a couple of games that a lesser coach would lose. If that's the case, and if this is who the coaching staff wants to go with, I'll support it. I still think he's one of the most overrated players in the league (particularly by Jets fans). But if Clemens was (or this summer shows to be) clearly better he would absolutely be starting.

So while I'm hardly all over Pennington's jock, the last thing I want to see is someone worse. It's all silly discussion right now anyway; Clemens will most likely see time as starter at some point in the season after Chad sustains another "freak" injury that everyone else gets up from. I admire the guy's heart, but it doesn't put any more points on the board or make a pass reach a receiver any faster.

Besides, Clemens looked slightly more clueless than a rookie Ryan Leaf in his 5 or so snaps last year. No doubt he'll get better (it's impossible to be worse) - and we never would have released Ramsey or settled for such a sub-standard talent as Tuiasoloser as "competition" if Mangini thought Clemens was truly that bad - but that's quite a low starting point.

[BornJetsFan1983]

I'm not Pennington's biggest fan (to say the least), but this team is not in 100% rebuilding mode. Though we don't have the conference's best talent (clearly), Mangini thinks that coaching can make up for at least a couple of games that a lesser coach would lose. If that's the case, and if this is who the coaching staff wants to go with, I'll support it. I still think he's one of the most overrated players in the league (particularly by Jets fans). But if Clemens was (or this summer shows to be) clearly better he would absolutely be starting.

So while I'm hardly all over Pennington's jock, the last thing I want to see is someone worse. It's all silly discussion right now anyway; Clemens will most likely see time as starter at some point in the season after Chad sustains another "freak" injury that everyone else gets up from. I admire the guy's heart, but it doesn't put any more points on the board or make a pass reach a receiver any faster.

Besides, Clemens looked slightly more clueless than a rookie Ryan Leaf in his 5 or so snaps last year. No doubt he'll get better (it's impossible to be worse) - and we never would have released Ramsey or settled for such a sub-standard talent as Tuiasoloser as "competition" if Mangini thought Clemens was truly that bad - but that's quite a low starting point.

Dude you totally love Chads Jock, just admit it

[raffyD]

Clemens is short. Neither player is what you would call a perfect specimen.

this Clemens thing is way out of control.

This is the NFL you don't hand people starting jobs they don't deserve. When Mangini announces that Clemens is the starter, then I will take notice. Until then, he's a backup until proven otherwise.

do Jets fans really think they know more than Mangini about who should be the starter?

This coach will play the best player regardless of age or contract - if it's Chad, you should believe him. Mangini would not leave a better player on the bench for political reasons.

potw nom.