Clemens Over Sanchez??? Seriously?

[The Gun Of Bavaria]

So I've been reading the camp reports with great interest, but being the pessimistic Jets fan that I am, I've avoided posting for the sheer courtesy of not pissing about 95% of this place off.

Yeah, I know it's early, but from what I'm reading, there is no question that the powers to be within the Jets coaching staff seem to be operating under the preconceived notion that Clemens is going to be their starting QB on game day.

If that's the case, and I truly think it is, they are making a major mistake and setting this organization back at least 2-3 years. Why you ask?

1) Whatever success Clemens is currently having at camp is an anomaly, brought about by a lack of true opposition and a competitor who is digesting this specific pro offense for the first time.

2) Clemens has had his opportunities to prove himself in real game action and converted his chances to impress by dancing around the pocket with his happy feet, not getting rid of the ball, and poor decision making when he does. Simply put, he had his chance to shine and didn't do anything with it. I refuse to buy into any form of theory and conjecture, that all of a sudden, Clemens has absolved himself of all sins and is a top or even above average NFL QB.

3) We traded the farm and signed Sanchez to a fortune, complete with guarantees, for one reason and one reason only: So he could become our first franchise QB since O'Brien and lead this team for years to come. There is only one way to build experience and achieve the level of play consistent with guys like Brady, Manning 1, Manning 2, and others, and that is through experiences, trial by fire, a "Red Badge of Courage". Sanchez learns nothing on the bench, holding a clipboard. "Learning via KC's experiences" does nothing to improve his ability to lead this team. Going out there through the thick and thin, learning from his own mistakes, learning the offense at true game speed, that's how he gets to where we want him to be.

If you subscribe to the theory that Sanchez should sit a year and "soak in" the game, the offense and other aspects of being a professional QB, you're setting any potential success on the part of Sanchez 2-3 years, end of story.

How?

Year 1 is immediately a wash with Clemens in, knowing full well he will not have the talent or ability to lead this team to any form of success. Even if you subscribe to a theory of putting Sanchez in midseason, he will have already missed valuable game experience and you'd comdemn the season from the start.

Year 2, if Sanchez was then annointed as starter, would be what would otherwise be his rookie season in the progression....his first year. It would be rough and tough, long and painful. It would build him up but at what cost to a potential timeline? Why sit him on the bench, having only 16 games as a starter under his belt in a freaking 4+ year span?

Year 3 would be Sanchez's sophomore season and if he's as good as the Jets expect, this would be the time he finally begins to shine...just like the Mannings and other QBs who had rough rookie years.

So my point is....Why push that pain off one more year? Why piss away a full year of experience, so that in 2 years, with the defense sharp and some other offensive weapons added (i,e, WRs), Sanchez could be begin to excel. Why do in 3 years what you could otherwise do in 2?

It's early I know. A lot could change. Rex could be playing mind games. There's a lot more to come.....but I can't help but smell the foul odor of Jets stupidity emanating from Cortland right now.

[Jbro22]

Kind of an Anderson/Quinn feel. Nobody from small town in Oregon vs. a highly touted draft pick that team 'will' build future around.

[PS17]

I completely agree, GOB. Sanchez is the future, I want him in there Week 1 in Houston. He will get better experience playing than riding the pine.

[Jbro22]

I completely agree, GOB. Sanchez is the future, I want him in there Week 1 in Houston. He will get better experience playing than riding the pine.

I would also like him to start, I'll deal with a bad season just to get him some experience. Look at Clemens, I almost spit up my coffee today when I heard ESPN refer to him as a Veteran.

Even if Clemens is better now, he's not the future.

[Sperm Edwards]

There is only one way to build experience and achieve the level of play consistent with guys like Brady, Manning 1, Manning 2, and others, and that is through experiences, trial by fire, a "Red Badge of Courage"

.

Brady did not start from game 1 as a rookie.

Manning 2 did not start from game 1 as a rookie.

McNabb did not start from game 1 as a rookie.

Roethlisberger did not start from game 1 as a rookie.

Cutler did not start from game 1 as a rookie.

Favre did not start from game 1 as a rookie.

Brees did not start from game 1 as a rookie.

Rivers did not start from game 1 as a rookie.

Palmer did not start from game 1 as a rookie.

Rodgers did not start from game 1 as a rookie.

Sure Ryan and Flacco did last year, and with unusual success. Of course they also came out after more than 1 season starting in college.

The only one I can think of recently who started game 1 as a rookie and ended up being great is Peyton Manning (I'm probably forgetting someone, but whatever). But if starting game 1 as a rookie means you'll turn your rookie QB into Peyton Manning, then everybody would do that and there wouldn't be any bad QB's. Usually they turn into Kyle Boller or David Carr.

He should play when he's ready. It would be awesome if that was game 1 this year because Clemens has overly impressed no one to date. But if it isn't, it isn't. And it doesn't mean anything preposterous like setting the franchise back 3 years.

[ECURB]

.

Brady did not start from game 1 as a rookie.

Manning 2 did not start from game 1 as a rookie.

McNabb did not start from game 1 as a rookie.

Roethlisberger did not start from game 1 as a rookie.

Cutler did not start from game 1 as a rookie.

Favre did not start from game 1 as a rookie.

Brees did not start from game 1 as a rookie.

Rivers did not start from game 1 as a rookie.

Palmer did not start from game 1 as a rookie.

Rodgers did not start from game 1 as a rookie.

Sure Ryan and Flacco did last year, and with unusual success. Of course they also came out after more than 1 season starting in college.

The only one I can think of recently who started game 1 as a rookie and ended up being great is Peyton Manning (I'm probably forgetting someone, but whatever). But if starting game 1 as a rookie means you'll turn your rookie QB into Peyton Manning, then everybody would do that and there wouldn't be any bad QB's. Usually they turn into Kyle Boller or David Carr.

He should play when he's ready. It would be awesome if that was game 1 this year because Clemens has overly impressed no one to date. But if it isn't, it isn't. And it doesn't mean anything preposterous like setting the franchise back 3 years.

Yes but how many of them had an above average line in front of them?

If this team was a mess on the Oline like it was in 2007 then I would say sit him... but he has the protection,... let him play... Clemens is a backup.

[ZachEY]

Would anyone be thrilled if Sanchez put up these numbers?

Yards: 2971

Comp%: 60.0

YPA: 6.94

TD: 14

INT: 12

Sacks: 32

Rat: 80.3

Because that's what Flacco did. Overrated.

[Arsis]

Would anyone be thrilled if Sanchez put up these numbers?

Yards: 2971

Comp%: 60.0

YPA: 6.94

TD: 14

INT: 12

Sacks: 32

Rat: 80.3

Because that's what Flacco did. Overrated.

As a rookie? I wouldn't be upset with those numbers. They aren't great by any stretch of the imagination. They also aren't horrible. Especially if he, like Flacco makes the postseason.

[Blackout]

i hate how people on ESPN are ignorant enough to say "pittsburgh won the superbowl DISPITE big ben being a rookie QB"

half of the analysts don't remember PITTSBURGH DIDN'T WIN WITH BIG BEN UNTIL HIS SOPHMORE NFL SEASON LOL

[Ranger]

Yes but how many of them had an above average line in front of them?

Most of them listed had an above average line in front of them with a good running game. If Sanchez isn't ready, he will still hold the ball too long with a good O-line

[GodWearsAGrayHoodie]

.

Brady did not start from game 1 as a rookie.

Manning 2 did not start from game 1 as a rookie.

McNabb did not start from game 1 as a rookie.

Roethlisberger did not start from game 1 as a rookie.

Cutler did not start from game 1 as a rookie.

Favre did not start from game 1 as a rookie.

Brees did not start from game 1 as a rookie.

Rivers did not start from game 1 as a rookie.

Palmer did not start from game 1 as a rookie.

Rodgers did not start from game 1 as a rookie.

And if we want go back to some older QBs nor did Montana or Marino.

One thing I find quite ironic about the posters on this board is many who go almost to the point of claiming but for the lousy coaching by Mangini Gholston would have been all-pro his rookie year, but at the same time are convinced that Clemens could not possibly improve under a different coach.

[Jbro22]

Clemens is hardly a veteran QB, at this point he'd make a better coach then football player. He might be the best QB right now, but we all know he's not gonna be on the team next year. Unless he pulls what Anderson pulled two years ago.

That said, I'd rather throw Sanchez into the fire right now, see what he got.

[The Gun Of Bavaria]

What harm can be done by starting the guy this year?

None.

Unless we're drafting people and paying them gazillions to hold clipboazrd and make sure they don't get to hurt....since it's only professional football.

We're not talking Matt Leinart and Kurt Warner here. We're talking Sanchez and Clemens.

[ZachEY]

As a rookie? I wouldn't be upset with those numbers. They aren't great by any stretch of the imagination. They also aren't horrible. Especially if he, like Flacco makes the postseason.

That's it, they're 'good for a rookie', but that doesn't mean it's not his peak.

[T0mShane]

I wanted to say this, but I didn't want anybody to misinterpret what I'm saying, thinking that I'm being alarmist or calling him a huge bust, but there is nothing about Sanchez, looking at him, that would make you think he was anything higher than a third round pick.

HOLD ON before you flip out. Let me say this. I am sure people watched Joe Montana his first few years and were equally dubious regarding his future in the NFL. All I'm saying is that Sanchez does nothing physically that makes you believe he's going to be great. If he succeeds, it will be because of intangibles, leadership qualities, and game savvy.

[Jbro22]

I wanted to say this, but I didn't want anybody to misinterpret what I'm saying, thinking that I'm being alarmist or calling him a huge bust, but there is nothing about Sanchez, looking at him, that would make you think he was anything higher than a third round pick.

HOLD ON before you flip out. Let me say this. I am sure people watched Joe Montana his first few years and were equally dubious regarding his future in the NFL. All I'm saying is that Sanchez does nothing physically that makes you believe he's going to be great. If he succeeds, it will be because of intangibles, leadership qualities, and game savvy.

What QB's did when they were a rookie? Only ones I could think of is Vick, and V. Young.

[T0mShane]

What QB's did when they were a rookie? Only ones I could think of is Vick, and V. Young.

Let me put it this way: If you were in a coma and did not know anything about the Jets' draft this year, and you came to a summer camp practice and were told that one of these QB's was the sixth overall pick, you would think they were talking about Erik Ainge.

[derp]

A couple of things.

You start off saying that starting Clemens over Sanchez would set back the franchise 2-3 years at the very least, but then go through your analysis and it would be setting back the franchise one year.

Clemens did not play very well in the 8 games he started. We also had an AWFUL offensive line that year, which is part of why his footwork, statistics, and overall play were so bad. Besides that, lots of quarterbacks look bad after their first 8 games.

Plus, if Clemens shows to be a serviceable starter on a team with 2 real receiving threats and nobody who is going to scare teams deap on a consistent basis, we could actually trade him for something this offseason and get another long-term piece instead of letting him leave and getting nothing in return. So that's a plus.

I'm not a Clemens supporter by any stretch, but at the same time this team has a solid but far from ideal situation for a young QB (no big wideouts, no consistent deep threat to stretch the field, the tight end and run game help but if teams stack the box the run game could suffer as well) and we're not playing to win this season anyway. Maybe Sanchez learns the system this year, comes out and blows everyone away in the upcoming camp and takes off from there. You're talking about a one year difference.

Let the best guy play, if it's Sanchez great and if it's Clemens lets get another piece for him this offseason to make this team a SB contender. But I have a hard time believing that throwing in the rookie who is currently making mistakes against a second team defense and staring down WR's is going to really help him or the team this year. He's got to earn it and then we'll move on from there. Just throwing him to the wolves doesn't always work, no matter how good our OL is. Plus if somebody gets hurt on the OL we're screwed there too and it's close to Clemens' first 8 games all over again, and then what are you going to do, pull him and let Clemens handle the pressure so he doesn't hurt or get trigger happy like KC? I still say the best guy plays, and due to his experience that's Clemens. Let Sanch play when he's our best QB, or at the very least close to it.

Finally, it's a little early to pass judgement. Hasn't even been a week of TC. Maybe it starts clicking for Sanchez and he earns reps and outplays Clemens and starts. Maybe not. Either way I still think the best guy should start because that's what's best for the team, unless it's close and then if you want to start Sanchez go ahead.

[Irish Jet]

Anyone remember David Carr?

[war ensemble]

Sign Brooks Bollinger and Michael Vick from the UFL.

Bollywood to Vick for 6 sounds good to me.

[GodWearsAGrayHoodie]

Let me put it this way: If you were in a coma and did not know anything about the Jets' draft this year, and you came to a summer camp practice and were told that one of these QB's was the sixth overall pick, you would think they were talking about Erik Ainge.

Sanchez was the 5th not 6th overall pick.

[neckdemon]

i think clemens will get about 4 games to prove he shoudl stay the starter....if not anchez will come in. maybe clemens gets 6 games max. and, honestly, i hope he does really well if he's in.....if nothing else the jest have a qb who is worth something as far as a trade goes.

[GodWearsAGrayHoodie]

i think clemens will get about 4 games to prove he shoudl stay the starter....if not anchez will come in. maybe clemens gets 6 games max. and, honestly, i hope he does really well if he's in.....if nothing else the jest have a qb who is worth something as far as a trade goes.

I doubt 4 or 6 games is going to get the Jets anything of trade value. Clemens contract is up at the end of the season.

Jets could franchise tag him and trade him like the Pats did with Cassel. But I doubt anyone is going to give up much to take on the franchise tag price unless he starts the majority of the games and does very well. If he loses the starting job to a rookie he is not worth the $18 to $20 million dollars the tag is going to be worth next year.

[The Troll]

Anyone remember David Carr?

I do, I do!

And I will always maintain that he would have been an elite QB if Houston would have sat his ass on the bench instead of throwing him in the fire from day one.

He got wrecked mentally. So did Tim Couch. And, being as Sanchez has done nothing but win in his entire career, I'm not sure how well he can handle losing. Or getting the **** knocked out of him by Ty Warren.

[slowmoe57]

Yes and David Carr being a rookie starting for an expansion team was a recipe for disaster.

[Vicious89x]

I do, I do!

And I will always maintain that he would have been an elite QB if Houston would have sat his ass on the bench instead of throwing him in the fire from day one.

He got wrecked mentally. So did Tim Couch. And, being as Sanchez has done nothing but win in his entire career, I'm not sure how well he can handle losing. Or getting the **** knocked out of him by Ty Warren.

I agree- then again, Carr had an epically horrid O-Line and everything. We have a solid O-Line with a good run game.

I know this is crazy but I feel we're in a win-win. We have the O-line/run game/D to help a young rookie starter if he wins.

If he loses, then so what, hopefully it is a narrow win by Clemens, Sanchez sits and learns and works hard at that and is ready to take the helm next year.

[Irish Jet]

I do, I do!

And I will always maintain that he would have been an elite QB if Houston would have sat his ass on the bench instead of throwing him in the fire from day one.

He got wrecked mentally. So did Tim Couch. And, being as Sanchez has done nothing but win in his entire career, I'm not sure how well he can handle losing. Or getting the **** knocked out of him by Ty Warren.

Yup, that's why you have to wait until Sanchez is ready.

They are different cases though. With Carr it was Houston who weren't ready more than anything else IMO. I don't think the Jets are a terrible offense for any QB to step into but if the guy isn't ready then he simply isn't ready. He's clearly has some fundamental issues with his game right now, but don't look into it too much man, that's to be expected out of any young QB. Comparing him to Matt Ryan is simply unfair.

[neckdemon]

I doubt 4 or 6 games is going to get the Jets anything of trade value. Clemens contract is up at the end of the season.

Jets could franchise tag him and trade him like the Pats did with Cassel. But I doubt anyone is going to give up much to take on the franchise tag price unless he starts the majority of the games and does very well. If he loses the starting job to a rookie he is not worth the $18 to $20 million dollars the tag is going to be worth next year.

yeah maybe my post wasn't too clear. i meant 4-6 games if he sucks and that we might have trade value if he stays in and does well for the season. but anyway...with eli the highest paid player in the nfl at around 15mil/per how would the franchise tag cost 20 mil?

[kelticwizard]

Yes and David Carr being a rookie starting for an expansion team was a recipe for disaster.

True, but then Troy Aikman starting every game as a rookie for what amounted to an expansion team worked out well after all.

It seems to depend on the individual-but I favor sitting a guy for at least half a year, all other things being equal.

[The Troll]

I agree- then again, Carr had an epically horrid O-Line and everything. We have a solid O-Line with a good run game.

I know this is crazy but I feel we're in a win-win. We have the O-line/run game/D to help a young rookie starter if he wins.

If he loses, then so what, hopefully it is a narrow win by Clemens, Sanchez sits and learns and works hard at that and is ready to take the helm next year.

I just don't trust that Sanchez is mentally ready for the NFL game.

He barely played in college and he dealt with NO adversity when he did play.

Let him sit and learn until AT LEAST December. It's not like we have Super Bowl aspirations this year.

We are going to "see what we got" with Sanchez eventually. Patience, people, patience.

[rillo]

Sounds good to me, still very early though, IMO it'll be settled during the preseason who starts.

[Vicious89x]

I just don't trust that Sanchez is mentally ready for the NFL game.

He barely played in college and he dealt with NO adversity when he did play.

Let him sit and learn until AT LEAST December. It's not like we have Super Bowl aspirations this year.

We are going to "see what we got" with Sanchez eventually. Patience, people, patience.

You can make an argument any way you want but I agree with your last point... whatever it is patience with this kid will be key.

[The Troll]

Yup, that's why you have to wait until Sanchez is ready.

They are different cases though. With Carr it was Houston who weren't ready more than anything else IMO. I don't think the Jets are a terrible offense for any QB to step into but if the guy isn't ready then he simply isn't ready. He's clearly has some fundamental issues with his game right now, but don't look into it too much man, that's to be expected out of any young QB. Comparing him to Matt Ryan is simply unfair.

I never compared him to Ryan or Flacco.

Plenty of other people did, however. For MONTHS, as part of their argument as to why he should be the opening day starter.

However, now that he's in camp and isn't overly impressive, the shouts come that it's ridiculous to compare him to Ryan or Flacco. Is it now? It wasn't a week ago.

[Irish Jet]

I never compared him to Ryan or Flacco.

Plenty of other people did, however. For MONTHS, as part of their argument as to why he should be the opening day starter.

However, now that he's in camp and isn't overly impressive, the shouts come that it's ridiculous to compare him to Ryan or Flacco. Is it now? It wasn't a week ago.

I said Matt Ryan. Not Joe Flacco.

[afosomf]

I said Matt Ryan. Not Joe Flacco.

remember Flacco was being beaten out by troy smith b4 he got sick

Sanchez will be the starter