Alvin "Bud" Dupree

[T0mShane]

Sounds like the killer was a high-motor type

No idea they don't test for that

[DaBallhawk]

I don't base my evals on combine numbers, I base them on how guys play, but it's not like I bother to "study" how guys play or something

 

But then you don't really know what you're talking about. If you don't watch the guy play and "study" him. Whatever you think that means, I'm not sure. What's the difference between watching somebody play and studying him.

[dbatesman]

But then you don't really know what you're talking about. If you don't watch the guy play and "study" him. Whatever you think that means, I'm not sure. What's the difference between watching somebody play and studying him.

I studied a game from one guy, isn't that enough?

[DaBallhawk]

I studied a game from one guy, isn't that enough?

 

So you did "study" him?

[dbatesman]

So you did "study" him?

I watched some real game footage (Florida game) and went over every snap.

[DaBallhawk]

I watched some real game footage (Florida game) and went over every snap.

 

Fair enough.

[T0mShane]

I watched some real game footage (Florida game) and went over every snap.

How much did you deduct for level of competition? I used 11.8

[afosomf]

Bud Dupree see ya by the shadetree

[#27TheDominator]

Bud Dupree see ya by the shadetree

 

Why are you bringing Marvin Jones into this?

[derp]

1: The entire comparison is complete garbage because you feel like he's more mobile. That is absolutely hilarious. Besides, I'm telling you right now, he's not. Another thing: Unlike Gholston Dupree avoided running those drills that would determine how "mobile" he is. And based on his 10 yard split Gholston was WAY more explosive and he was close to ripping off 40 reps on the bench press. You sound moronic the way you go on and make up things to somehow find a difference between the two. Anybody with at least one eye watches the tape and sees the same exact player out there. Anybody that compares size, talent and (lack of) skill, athlecisim, sees the same exact guy. You don't, because you don't want to. That's fine. Just realize that. That's all.

 

2. That's what you don't get. The first part was me trying to tell you what a player that lacks everything that can't be measured but does post great combine numbers might turn out to be. A major bust. I also pointed out in the same exact paragraph that if he does have those things that can't be measured he could be an even better and more healthy JPP. That's All Pro material. But you chose to ignore that because of how much in love you are with this workout warrior.

 

3. I think somebody should explain to you the definition of "outstanding". It seems like you don't know the meaning of it. If you do then once again you sound like a moron and I'm not trying to offend you in any way honestly, it's just a fact. How is Wilk running the 40 in 5 seconds flat "outstanding"? I mean it's not terrible, outstanding would be anything around 4.7 maybe. 5 seconds flat is what the average lineman puts up. He had an absolute pathetic 26 inch vertical and to top it all he did 27 reps on the bench press. I think I've seen cornerbacks half his size do more. Let's continue with those outstanding combine performances however. I'm still shocked at how good Mo's numbers are but I try to focus now, it's not easy when you blow up the combine the way Mo did. Next up: Richardson. Runs the 40 in over 5 seconds, at under 300 pounds. Again, not terrible, but far from anything that you'd consider "good" or even "outstanding". If you want "outstanding" look at Aaron Donald who ran the 40 in 4.6 seconds. Does any of thise horsesh*t mean anything? No. Watch Richardson play, he's more athletic than any of our linebacker not named DD. He chased down an olympic type track runner during the season. You can make a case that late in the game, when running full speed takes more than just moving your legs, when you have to dig deep and fight through pain, fatigue etc. that Sheldon could outrun most of our DB's. Based on his 40 however he should be SMOKED by EVERYBODY on the field. Again, do you get my point of how meaningless these numbers are? Coples didn't have a stellar combine workout, neither did Harris. I'm not gonna go on and on with this now.

 

4. Then I honestly don't know what you're watching, if you see a guy who's fast, athletic, mobile etc. out there in Dupree. Try to watch some real game footage of him, not the couple of great highlight plays he might have had last season. Watch a game and then go over every snap. I did that with Fowler (vs Florida State). If you want to see a fast, athletic, mobile DE who understands football, who reads QB's, who plays balls to the walls, gives 110% effort on each play, hustles and doesn't quit, has great closing speed, a guy who looks so comfortable on his feet (LB) already that he'd be a real threat as an outside backer in the 3-4, then look no further. That's what you want. This guy in my opinion could very well be the next Von Miller. I don't even know what his combine numbers are. I don't care. I don't care if he put up 5 bench reps or if he ran the 40 in 5 seconds flat. I see the guy play and he looks wicked fast & explosive, he looks plenty strong for a guy in the 250-260 pound range I'd assume. That's all I need to know. If I need an edge rusher, he's my pick. Mind you, I haven't "studied" every edge rusher but I wouldn't even bother. The guy just looks that good. Dupree is the exact opposite. He doesn't understand football. He has no moves, he doesn't play fast, he's not comfortable dropping back, standing up, he's not especially strong (bench reps help you NADA when it comes to blowing up the pocket or bull rushing people) or anything really. Nothing about his game blows me away. I wouldn't even touch him in the 1st round. Not even in the 2nd round because it's just too much of a gamble to look at his combine numbers and then pray for something to happen. He's similar to Stephen Hill in my view in a lot of ways. The numbers one can see look outstanding but what we don't see and what makes great players are the things that can't be measured. I don't think Dupree's got them. And Hill sure as hell didn't have them.

 

I'm not saying he WILL bust. I just wouldn't take the risk, that's all. To me he's very likely to bust. Whether he does or doesn't we'll see. If somebody uses him in the right scheme - personally I don't see a LB in him, he's more of a Ez Ansah type pass rushing 4-3 DE in my opinion - he could turn out to be a really good pick who produces sacks. He'd be a perfect fit in Tampa's defense but there's no way they pick him at #2. If the pick him at the beginning of the 2nd round that would be his best shot at having a good career I think. Fowler to me is a LB, he'll flourish in a 3-4 defense when used like Von Miller, Demarcus Ware. By the way, Jerry Hughes went through the same crap. Misfit in Indy's 4-3 defense, then he gets to Buffalo and tears it up in the 3-4.

 

Look, I don't know for sure what's gonna happen. Neither do you or anyone else. All we do is give our opinion based on what we've seen so far. If Dupree to you looks like a fast, athletic LB who's got what it takes to be a great pass rusher at the next level that's fine. I just disagree because I don't see any of that honestly. And I have no agenda here. I give full props to Fowler who I don't care about either but whoever picks him up and uses him right will have a Pro Bowler for the next 10 years I think. At least a very good chance of that happening. With Dupree I think it's more likely you'll end up getting a bust, but obviously there's an outside chance he'll turn out to be good. I'm not saying one guy will be a success/failure for sure because that'd be nonsense. We don't know. I'm going by the odds and what I'd do if I were to GM a team. That's it from me. We shall see what happens.

 

Dude you have to just be trolling at this point. You completely ignore all of my points, the things that you actually said, and make assumptions about what I'm trying to say that are completely off base. Again, I've watched Dupree in games, not highlights. We see different things, obviously. And I do not appreciate the personal attacks.

 

For the record:

 

I don't see a comparison between Dupree and Gholston. I do think Dupree looks more mobile laterally in games. You point out a 10 yard split and bench press numbers for Gholston. He was so rocked up he could barely move side to side. He was not mobile. A 10 yard split and a bench press result are not tests of lateral mobility, they're tests of explosiveness and strength/endurance. So they're completely irrelevant to the conversation. Yes, Gholston had a whole other set of issues that led to him not having success in the NFL. But I do not see similar players when I watch the two of them.

 

I'm not in love with Dupree. But I do think he is a better prospect than you obviously do. And I liked him as a prospect based off of watching him in games pre-combine. The workout numbers aren't why I think he's got a chance to be decent. And again, I don't like him at 6. But I'm not writing him off either.

 

Again, you ignored me quoting your first post, so I'll point it out again. You said: "Elite pass rushers in general don't wow people with their combine numbers." Please explain to me how that makes sense.

 

Wilkerson ran a 4.96 at 315 pounds. Average defensive tackles do not run 5 flat at 300 pounds, let alone sub 5 flat at 315 pounds. I'd actually like to see you back that claim up. Donald's time was ridiculous, but Wilkerson had a great showing at the combine. And Wilkerson's 27 reps for a guy with ridiculously long arms were pretty solid, but the impressive thing was the speed and explosiveness for a young guy carrying 315.

 

Richardson ran between 4.71 and 4.82 at his pro day. So that impressive game speed you were talking about did show up.

 

Harris ran a 4.59 which is a really good time for a linebacker carrying north of 240 pounds.

 

Coples ran a 4.78 at 284 pounds. No defensive lineman this year who ran a better time was heavier than 284 at the combine, and plenty of smaller defensive linemen this year ran slower times.

 

Maybe outstanding was a stretch, but the athleticism of all of those guys showed up in workouts. They all had really good times for their size, which is a key distinction from having good times for their position.

 

 

 

And again, I'm not telling you that workouts are the be all end all. Maybe that's what you don't get. My entire argument - ENTIRE argument - is with the bold statement above which states that elite pass rushers do not put up good combine numbers. Sometimes, elite pass rushers do put up good combine numbers. Sometimes they don't. What shows up in games is the most important part. But just because a guy has good combine numbers does not mean that he will not be an elite pass rusher.

 

And that's all I've got for this conversation.

[#27TheDominator]

Mark Gastineau had some pretty impressive numbers.  I think he rushed the passer pretty well.

[dbatesman]

What pisses me off is how the 40 is literally the only thing that happens at the Combine

[CTM]

the ilk is having quite a circle jerk in this thread... 

[Dcat]

Newsflash: The combine is just entertainment for the fans. At least the dumb drills they have, which most of them have nothing to do with football and don't translate to what the players do on the field. Teams and Coaches go there to talk to the players primarily and even bigger are the medical reports. That's it.

 

simply untrue.  Don't delude yourself.  Scouts rely pretty heavily on the measurables and combine numbers. 

[Miss Lonelyhearts]

simply untrue. Don't delude yourself. Scouts rely pretty heavily on the measurables and combine numbers.

BUT GREG COSELL SAYS

[prime21]

With the 6th pick in the draft the Jets select...............

 

Why are we discussing Dupree so much?  If we trade down maybe he's in the convo but I'm not sure we want another "project" at LB.  

[#27TheDominator]

You keep going back to comparing some meaningless drills, weight, hands, quad, visor, neckpad, whatever. Just stop it already. That is not going to affect a player at the Pro Level in any way, shape or form. Dupree would be the same guy whether he runs a 4.6 or a 4.8, whether he jumps 36 or 42 inches. It's not gonna affect him.

What pisses me off is how the 40 is literally the only thing that happens at the Combine

 

He admits to watching more than the 40.  Even those meaningless positional drills.

 

Why dont you watch some real game footage, like I did for this one player in one game

 

 

Please post a link to your youtube game tape.

[RutgersJetFan]

the ilk is having quite a circle jerk in this thread...

$50 says ^^^ secretly wants to eat the cookie.

[CTM]

$50 says ^^^ secretly wants to eat the cookie.

 

$50 says ^^^ secretly is the cookie

[RutgersJetFan]

$50 says ^^^ secretly is the cookie

Sounds like you and I are in for a fun evening then, eh?

[DaBallhawk]

simply untrue.  Don't delude yourself.  Scouts rely pretty heavily on the measurables and combine numbers. 

 

Considering scouts and coaches are saying the exact opposite, you're wrong. But whatever.

[DaBallhawk]

With the 6th pick in the draft the Jets select...............

 

Why are we discussing Dupree so much?  If we trade down maybe he's in the convo but I'm not sure we want another "project" at LB.  

 

Project my butt, the guy will be the greatest player in NFL history. You heard it here first. Just look at his broad jump, what more do you need? Arm length? He's got that, too! 10 fingers and 2 big toes to top it all off. HALL. OF. FAME.

[SenorGato]

Considering scouts and coaches are saying the exact opposite, you're wrong. But whatever.

I just saw this. What???

The man himself:

http://www.sportsxchange.com/DS97/walsh/walsh3.htm

TEST: VERTICAL JUMP

(This requires a player to show how high he can elevate by measuring the distance between his reach while standing flat-footed and the highest point he can touch when he jumps straight up. No running starts, just one explosive jump upwards).

The vertical jump clearly demonstrates the explosiveness and extension and coordination. I think that is an excellent tool for anybody.

But an overweight athlete, or an athlete who has not prepared himself won't do nearly as well. An athlete can have a markedly improved vertical jump if he is finely tuned and prepared for the vertical jump. And the vertical jump changes dramatically as people mature. So an offensive lineman who jumps 23 inches at 260 pounds, then goes to 310 pounds, well don't worry about his vertical jump.

But that is an excellent measurable that can be applicable to explosion and movement that is so necessary in football.

.....

However, the offensive lineman's bone girth is probably more important than the number of repetitions he manages with 225 pounds. That girth gives you ballast to keep your balance. That ballast is what sort of makes you difficult to move out of the way, or once you get moving it makes it difficult to stop you. So you could be a man with ballast and heavy bone girth and not bench pressing as much as somebody else, but you still could be a much more effective football player. We are, again, talking functional strength.

This is Bill muhfckin Walsh talking about the importance of the vert and bone girth of an OLman in the 80s/90s...For ****'s sake man!

[SenorGato]

Check out the updated scouting report on NFL.com:

Was a team captain in 2014. Finished his senior season with 7.5 sacks and 23.5 for his career, which was the most by any active SEC player. He finished second on the team in tackles with 74, including 12.5 tackles for loss. Had his first career interception against South Carolina and returned it six yards for the game-winning touchdown. Started the final 38 games of his career and had 36 tackles for loss in his 45-game career. Was a quarterfinalist for the LOTT Trophy, given to a student-athlete that embodies integrity, maturity, performance, academics, community and tenacity. First-team all-state in Georgia, where he was a four-year starter at tight end and a three-year starter at defensive end. Had 10 receiving touchdowns and 10 sacks as a senior. Also won a state title in basketball.

PRO DAY RESULTS

20-yard short shuttle: 4.47 seconds

Three-cone drill: 7.49 seconds

ANALYSIS

STRENGTHS Freakish athlete with chiseled frame. Posted incredible 42-inch vertical leap and 4.56 40 at the combine while weighing 269 pounds. Outstanding power with ability to rag-doll tight ends at will. Should be an above average edge-setter. Good transition from playing run to rushing quarterback in play-action. Explosive closing burst. Willing thumper when he has a shot on running back. Can drop into space and play zone. Raw, but learning with huge growth potential as a player. Has strength at the point to be a physical edge-setter. Scouts give him plus grade for character.

WEAKNESSES Tall but not long. Wins with athleticism over skill at this point. Some scouts believe his instincts are below average, leading to hesitation. Will get caught taking bad angles to the ball. Needs to improve hand fighting. Still raw rushing the passer. Doesn't possess a go-to pass-rush move. Appears to lack urgency in-game.

SOURCES TELL US "He's a little slow to diagnose, which causes him to get a late start on plays. I would ask him to drop into space in zone dog looks and that's about it. To me, he's a pure see 'em, get 'em 3-4 rush end." -- NFC East regional scout

NFL COMPARISON Jamie Collins

BOTTOM LINE Dupree is an explosive, powerful athlete with a background in basketball. While he's been productive at Kentucky, his tape doesn't always do his potential justice. He must continue to improve as a pass rusher, but his traits are undeniable. Difference between being good and great might be his coordinator.

http://www.nfl.com/draft/2015/profiles/bud-dupree?id=2552289

[dbatesman]

scouts and coaches are saying the exact opposite

Link?

[BurnleyJet]

Six pages on a guy were not drafting cool.

[patman]

Dupree is interesting, but why didn't he have more production? 7.5 sacks last year, 23.5 in four years. Might be a workout warrior type.

Eliot and Stoops play the game more like BB than Rex and Bowles, they want to contain the play and run a more read and react style. less big plays both for and against the defense.

[SenorGato]

Six pages on a guy were not drafting cool.

Only reason to not draft him is because he doesn't make it to six.

[BurnleyJet]

Only reason to not draft him is because he doesn't make it to six.

 

Only reason to not draft him is because he doesn't make it to six.

Right lol

[prime21]

Charley Casserly's mock draft released today has us trading down with Cleveland at #12 and selecting Dupree at #12.  What's interesting is that we don't have Cleveland's other 1st round pick.  

[bitonti]

my list is real short at 6 it's Fowler or Dupree.  One of those two should be there. I like those players over Beasley, Gregory, Ray etc. 

[Paradis]

You would.

[HessStation]

As stated at nauseum, I love Dupree. Dark horse of the draft. 

[Villain The Foe]

If Bud is his nickname for anything other than weed, this is possibly a legit option for 6.

 

Basic measurements:

 

6'4" 269

32.63" Arm Length

9.75" Hands

4.56 40

42" Vert

138" Broad

24 sacks, 12 hurries, 1 INT, a combined 11 PDs/FFs/BKs in college

Hurts himself a litle by not doing the three cone or even the shuttle, which is why I say possible rather than clearly in the convo for 6.

Hau'oli Kikaha (washington)

6'2

253

32 1/2 arm length 

No on field drills at the combine (Illness. Pro Day is April 2nd)

Sacks last two years 19, 13

 

Kikaha had two ACL tears early in his college career but has played in all but 1 game the last two years and has racked up 32 sacks in his last 26 games and had 14 consecutive games where he registered a sack. That streak ended this past Nov. 15th against Arizona, after that game he went on a 3 game sack streak to end his college career. 

[Miss Lonelyhearts]

Kikaha isn't really the kind of player that would be in the conversation at 6 but I think he's really good. Similar to Bjoern Werner when he was coming out. Not a great athlete compared to a lot of these other guys but he's just good at everything. The board still looks like tackle all day in the second but this guy would be a good pick if we go WR in the first.