Sanchez - would you have taken this before season....

[aec4]

counting the Baltimore game - 149/259 for 1775 13-7 57.5%, 84.0

Dropping Baltimore (probably not fair, but trying to show how that skewed stats): 138/224 for 1656 13-6 61.6%, 92.4

So if we said we'd have a 61.6% completion percentage, and a 92.4 passer rating would we have taken it?

I know he's fumbled a lot, I know some of the other stuff, I'm just trying to be objective here. He has a lot to learn and needs to protect the rock more but he's on pace for 3550 yards, and 26 TDs...

[THE ILK]

He has impoved.

[THE ILK]

No he has not.

[Irish Jet]

No. He's not Aaron Rodgers so it's simply unacceptable.

[SenorGato]

Since I'm forced to take them as that's the reality, I don't mind it.

To use a cliche, he needs to learn to play for 60 minutes. Young Eli went through the same crap, and look at how he's improved even into his 30's...The Jets could be doing much worse, and Sanchez is probably/hopefully capable of much more (po-tent-ial!).

[SenorGato]

Anyone notice that Sanchez is bigger btw? And that most of his throws aren't as garbage as even last year? I was surprised at the velocity on the deep ball that drew the PI today...So he's taken steps in the right direction physically.

[KINGDIRK]

Counting the BALT game...not counting the BALT game. Gimme a break. His stats are 149/259 for 1775 13-7 57.5%, 84.0.

Not bad, not great.....Average.

[Sperm Edwards]

counting the Baltimore game - 149/259 for 1775 13-7 57.5%, 84.0

Dropping Baltimore (probably not fair, but trying to show how that skewed stats): 138/224 for 1656 13-6 61.6%, 92.4

So if we said we'd have a 61.6% completion percentage, and a 92.4 passer rating would we have taken it?

I know he's fumbled a lot, I know some of the other stuff, I'm just trying to be objective here. He has a lot to learn and needs to protect the rock more but he's on pace for 3550 yards, and 26 TDs...

That isn't being objective, though. You're taking snapshots of time that you wouldn't have taken at other times, and then removing his worst game without removing his best game and assigning a year pace to him based on those fictitious numbers.

Watch me do it. Forget only 8 games; through the first half plus 3 more games -- through 11 games last year (at which point we were 9-2):

185/336 (55%), 15 TD's, 7 INT's, 82.8 rating

He was on pace for 3354 yds, 24 TD's, 11 INT's. Didn't end up that way, though, did it?

Now take away his worst game (Green Bay) and his 16-game pace jumps to:

270/477, 3280 yards (57%), 24 TD's, 8 INT"s.

It's a fun game to play, but it has no basis in reality.

[HessStation]

I was hoping for a little bit better than slightly lower than middle of the pack performance.

[Sperm Edwards]

Oh yeah, and last year he lost 1 fumble in 15 regular season games. Now in 2011, he's on pace to lose 10 fumbles by season's end. Sucks for us and sucks for the team, but lucky for Sanchez since those turnovers don't get calculated into his rating or into QB/passing stats of any kind.

2010 through 11 games: 0 fumbles lost

2011 through 8 games: 5 fumbles lost

So compare passing TD's to turnovers while passing:

2010 through 11 games = 15 TD's, 7 turnovers

2011 through 8 games = 13 TD's, 12 turnovers

Take out the worst game, as you've done (which skews the numbers more when you count fewer games):

2010: 10-game total = 15 TD's, 5 turnovers (0.5 turnovers per game)

2011: 7-game total = 13 TD's, 8 turnovers (1.1 turnovers per game)

If you want to point to completion percentage as the sole basis for gauging improvement you certainly may do so. But what good is it, like on our opening drive, to hit 5 receivers in a row and then throw an interception in the endzone? Hey, on paper he's still completing 80% of his passes! Improvement!!!

He's flat-out careless with the football. He was careless with it before this year, and he's careless with it right now. He needs to fix this. It's not as though he's untalented.

[jason423]

Taking fandom out of the equation I am fine with how he is playing. My own projections based on the former performance of the QBs he tracked with gave this projection

Comp%: 57.8%±0.6%

YDs: 3424±37.7

TD: 23±0.6

INT: 17±0.5

YPG: 214.4±2.36

YPA: 5.88±0.32

YPC: 10.59±0.57

TD/Att: 0.041±0.001

INT/Att: 0.031±0.001

Id say thats more or less where he is at. Hes throwing it a big further than I thought, but its close.

As a fan though watching the games makes you scratch your head. Hes brilliant at times and downright incompetent at others. For the most part he is inconsistent most games (yesterday was not one of them) which seems unacceptable. He is really saved by playing on a good football team. Eli Manning fell in the same boat.. I think to some extent Joe Flacco falls into that category as well though he has always been safer with the football than Sanchez and Manning. You look at a guy like David Carr, who statistically wasnt much worse off than Sanchez, basically being crucified because the team stunk. Thats not to say he was any good, but by the time the coaching change was made Carr was considered finished.

[slats]

I still like Sanchez. I don't love him. I wish I did, but I don't. He still has a ways to go.

I know that it's become stupid and/or comical, but I think the 3rd year player still has the potential to improve. In fact, I think he has improved. I know. I'm such a Pollyanna.

[FloridaJetsFan]

Until I can say I trust that he won't make a game-killing mistake, he's still a question Mark.

[RutgersJetFan]

Before this season, would you have taken him not being terrible anymore??? WOULD YA???

YES????? Well, there you go. That settles that.

[NJ]

Yeah ... he is pretty crappy. Wish we could have Chad back ... most fumbles he ever had was 8 ....

[whodeawhodat]

It would be nice for him to dominate the whole year but it will take some time to gel with the new additions as well for one of the new additions to get back into game shape. The emphasis needs to be placed on how he ends the season, not how he played in week 4...As long as he heats up come the end of the season I will take it, so my answer is, ask me again after our season is over. Thanks for askin!

[SMC]

Yeah ... he is pretty crappy. Wish we could have Chad back ... most fumbles he ever had was 8 ....

[JiFtheOracle]

It would be nice for him to dominate the whole year but it will take some time to gel with the new additions as well for one of the new additions to get back into game shape. The emphasis needs to be placed on how he ends the season, not how he played in week 4...As long as he heats up come the end of the season I will take it, so my answer is, ask me again after our season is over. Thanks for askin!

Good post. Lots of moving pieces for Mark this season, plus the running game struggled early. I'm happy with how he's playing but hoping for a much better 2nd half of the season.

[hawksown14]

I think he's been pretty darn good this year.

[Doggin94it]

That isn't being objective, though. You're taking snapshots of time that you wouldn't have taken at other times, and then removing his worst game without removing his best game and assigning a year pace to him based on those fictitious numbers.

Watch me do it. Forget only 8 games; through the first half plus 3 more games -- through 11 games last year (at which point we were 9-2):

185/336 (55%), 15 TD's, 7 INT's, 82.8 rating

He was on pace for 3354 yds, 24 TD's, 11 INT's. Didn't end up that way, though, did it?

Now take away his worst game (Green Bay) and his 16-game pace jumps to:

270/477, 3280 yards (57%), 24 TD's, 8 INT"s.

It's a fun game to play, but it has no basis in reality.

There is a real difference, though. Last season, Sanchez was very up and down; through 8 games, he had 4 with a QB Rating of 60 or below and 3 with a QB rating of 106 and above (the 8th game he posted an 82.9). This season, Sanchez has played 7 games with a QB Rating of 85 and above and 1 with a QB Rating of 30.

In other words, last year's Green Bay game was his worst game, but it wasn't particularly out of the ordinary. His 43.3 QBR in that game wasn't even his worst of the year (27.8 against NE) and he had other games in that range (45.3 against Miami, and in the first half of the year 56.4 against Baltimore, 59.9 against Minnesota and 60.1 against Denver).

This year's Baltimore performance, in contrast, was a true outlier. And given the context - ferocious D going against a severely weakened offensive line that essentially gave Sanchez zero protection - tossing it out is not an unreasonable way to evaluate Sanchez this season. If it stays an outlier, it will in fact be the correct way to do it. If Sanchez has more games like that, then throwing it out would be unreasonable.

[Smashmouth]

Look up the stats of QB's, they fumble a lot due to blind side hits theres not much you can do about that and the shape our o-line was in for the 3 game losing streak and as many times as Sanchez got hit were lucky his fumble number of 7 was not worse. Plenty of seasoned QB's out there we all consider to be great that have more turnovers than Mark Sanchez and they didnt have to deal with the mess we had on the o-line. Take a look at Phillip Rivers and his 2 almost 3 pick sixes yesterday and his fumbled snap the week before that cost his team the game and his performance vs a real defense in the Jets. Compare a lot of the so called elite QB's playoff records to Sanchez see what ya come up with. Romo Rivers sure they can put up stats but can they win the big ones like Sanchez has proven he can on the road in hostile playoff enviornments. Ill take the clutch playoff performances over the flashy regular season stats any day. Not to mention the 7 4th Quarter comebacks in 2.5 years.

[Integrity28]

Mark's first 2 years, the offense was crappy and he made bad plays that opposing defenses converted into scores. Like pick-6's.

This year, the offense is still crappy - but he doesn't hand opposing defenses as many 6 point swings. I guess if you have to choose eight to ten 3-and-out's per game, or 3 INTs and at least one going back for a TD... you take the 3-and-out's? I dunno. I'd sure like to see more of the 4th quarter Sanchez that we've seen in the past... wish they'd let him play like that from the opening kickoff.

Anyway... this offense still blows, and its his inexperience combined with Schotty being a completely useless piece of crap that are at the core of why.

[lancemehl]

counting the Baltimore game - 149/259 for 1775 13-7 57.5%, 84.0

Dropping Baltimore (probably not fair, but trying to show how that skewed stats): 138/224 for 1656 13-6 61.6%, 92.4

So if we said we'd have a 61.6% completion percentage, and a 92.4 passer rating would we have taken it?

I know he's fumbled a lot, I know some of the other stuff, I'm just trying to be objective here. He has a lot to learn and needs to protect the rock more but he's on pace for 3550 yards, and 26 TDs...

interesting outlook lol (yawn) I kno you missed it but as the outcast who sees that we have a top QB, I cut it to this. Mark Sanchez IS a top ten QB. Period. Statistically. UR right, that balt. game was a statistical debacle that has him at #16 right now. (The two oddballs are Fitzpatrick and Sanchez. They will switch places on the leaderboard soon.) W/O that he's #9.

BUT that's too much thinking for some. So, By year's end, I guarantee, staking my rock solid reputation as a Jets forum contributer and ready to eat sh*t, he will be in that top group and he will stay there. Period. Then, those who arent happy with him simply going into foxboro and tcb last year (that sold me! lol) will have until then to mock me, call me an idiot (which they will anyway lol) and demand a new qb, but then there will be no argument. Espn and the country will reognize him for that. He will start popping up in commercials and that's that.

We are NEVER gonna see Peyton Manning numbers because that's not our game. Our game is EXACTLY what we did last two weeks and YES I'll take it!

Here was my favorite from yesterday. Paraphrasing someone said this, agreeing strongly with the premise that we need to draft another QB and replace Sanchez:

' yeah, but the PROBLEM will be that he will keep winning and completeing 60% so we CANT replace him!'

lmao does anyone see the warped thinking there? lmao Great game from the team two weeks straight. Hard to rip them. Greene runs hard like that, we win.

And on that note, going to the classic "Schotty sucks" ridiculousness. You may say---and I would agree--that there is only one stat that counts---the final score---and in that catagory---we are NUMBER 9 (number nine---number nine---number.........white album? lol) anyway, the great thing too is that it's steady, only scoring less than 20 once---no weights thrown in like a 60 point game (or a 30 passer rating in Balt.). yes, I would take that too!

I would also take 5-3 with the momentum in a 3-way dog race. I would take Rex. I'll take Folk....and I would love to have Cotch back and one of those spare D-lineman the Giants got....but no team is perfect.

We are in the Golden Era of Jets football.....for those of us who missed SB3!!!

[StraightCash]

There is a real difference, though. Last season, Sanchez was very up and down; through 8 games, he had 4 with a QB Rating of 60 or below and 3 with a QB rating of 106 and above (the 8th game he posted an 82.9). This season, Sanchez has played 7 games with a QB Rating of 85 and above and 1 with a QB Rating of 30.

In other words, last year's Green Bay game was his worst game, but it wasn't particularly out of the ordinary. His 43.3 QBR in that game wasn't even his worst of the year (27.8 against NE) and he had other games in that range (45.3 against Miami, and in the first half of the year 56.4 against Baltimore, 59.9 against Minnesota and 60.1 against Denver).

This year's Baltimore performance, in contrast, was a true outlier. And given the context - ferocious D going against a severely weakened offensive line that essentially gave Sanchez zero protection - tossing it out is not an unreasonable way to evaluate Sanchez this season. If it stays an outlier, it will in fact be the correct way to do it. If Sanchez has more games like that, then throwing it out would be unreasonable.

This, this, and everything about this.

[lancemehl]

Mark's first 2 years, the offense was crappy and he made bad plays that opposing defenses converted into scores. Like pick-6's.

This year, the offense is still crappy - but he doesn't hand opposing defenses as many 6 point swings. I guess if you have to choose eight to ten 3-and-out's per game, or 3 INTs and at least one going back for a TD... you take the 3-and-out's? I dunno. I'd sure like to see more of the 4th quarter Sanchez that we've seen in the past... wish they'd let him play like that from the opening kickoff.

Anyway... this offense still blows, and its his inexperience combined with Schotty being a completely useless piece of crap that are at the core of why.

WE ARE NUMBER NINE IN SCORING. Are you watching the games?? A crappy offense doesn't put up over twenty points a game. Jacksonville is a crappy offense, Denver is a crappy ofense, Miami is a crappy offrense......we are a clock-eating methodical offense with an above average QB.. NUMBER NINE!! Number ******* nine....what more do you want?? lol

I think it's time to stop gazing across the dance floor and realize that the chick you brought to the dance aint half bad herself.....or wind up with two so-so angry dramatic bitches.

See here's the thing when you only see a team through ESPN highlights, they look great---compared to your team that you jst watched for 60 mins, but trust me, THEY make mistakes too. Reality though---we are number nine in scoring and we move the ball and we move the ball in the second half and we win.

Ohhh how I wish for one more week of Kotite or Coslett or Herm, the real geniuses. Or if only we had a Chan Galey type. lmfao.

Tell a Redskins fan about our crappy offense. lol

Thank goodness the organization doesnt listen to these boards for sh*t anyway, so I foresee a long future with this group (Rex, Schotty, Sanchez, and that other guy that sits up in the booth lol) AND----ready to be terrified----I can see a scenerio where Schotty succeeds Rex! Ouch!

Enjoy it! Before it's gone! Or have you forgotten what is means to SUCK!

[Integrity28]

WE ARE NUMBER NINE IN SCORING. Are you watching the games?? A crappy offense doesn't put up over twenty points a game. Jacksonville is a crappy offense, Denver is a crappy ofense, Miami is a crappy offrense......we are a clock-eating methodical offense with an above average QB.. NUMBER NINE!! Number ******* nine....what more do you want?? lol

I think it's time to stop gazing across the dance floor and realize that the chick you brought to the dance aint half bad herself.....or wind up with two so-so angry dramatic bitches.

See here's the thing when you only see a team through ESPN highlights, they look great---compared to your team that you jst watched for 60 mins, but trust me, THEY make mistakes too. Reality though---we are number nine in scoring and we move the ball and we move the ball in the second half and we win.

Ohhh how I wish for one more week of Kotite or Coslett or Herm, the real geniuses. Or if only we had a Chan Galey type. lmfao.

Tell a Redskins fan about our crappy offense. lol

Thank goodness the organization doesnt listen to these boards for sh*t anyway, so I foresee a long future with this group (Rex, Schotty, Sanchez, and that other guy that sits up in the booth lol) AND----ready to be terrified----I can see a scenerio where Schotty succeeds Rex! Ouch!

Enjoy it! Before it's gone! Or have you forgotten what is means to SUCK!

lol

Too easy.

[Doggin94it]

WE ARE NUMBER NINE IN SCORING. Are you watching the games?? A crappy offense doesn't put up over twenty points a game.

Jets D and ST have scored 3TDs (21 points over 8 games = 2.5 points per game) so the Jets O is scoring only 17.5 ppg. That's not good enough to win. But the O is getting better.

[Stonehands]

I think the thing that sums up Mark Sanchez is that he is hands down the best QB this franchise has had since Namith. Says alot about Mark and the crap we have had to put with over the years.

[JerryK]

I think the thing that sums up Mark Sanchez is that he is hands down the best QB this franchise has had since Namith. Says alot about Mark and the crap we have had to put with over the years.

Agreed. And I'd wait to declare Aaron Rodgers god until he's played the Lions twice.

[GimmeShelter]

Since I'm forced to take them as that's the reality, I don't mind it.

To use a cliche, he needs to learn to play for 60 minutes. Young Eli went through the same crap, and look at how he's improved even into his 30's...The Jets could be doing much worse, and Sanchez is probably/hopefully capable of much more (po-tent-ial!).

Agree. One thing I don't see him doing that he did in past seasons is those 2 or 3 dropped INT's by the other team. Sanchez seemed to get away with a couple of those every game.

The thing that he needs to improve upon the most in my opinion is the brain dead INT's like yesterday and the Oakland game. INT's happen but he has to get to the point soon where he knows what a throw away down is if nothing is open.

The talent is there to be a top 10 QB.

[lancemehl]

Not only Sanchez, but overall--this notion that you automatically and systematically exchange players at every position on your team that doesn't have a pro-bowl starter is asinine....especially in a salary-cap league. It never works (see Redskins and plent others throughout). It leads to a lot of what they call "chasing the dragon" and jersey discarding. Continuity, solidarity.... they mean a lot, but more concrete than that is the fact that it is impossible! Especially at QB. Forget Mark Sanchez. Any QB. Any Team. You do not cash in your draft for one guy and then make plans to uproot that whole project because midway through year three he's not Peyton Manning. lol As far as this constant kicker carousel, that's another dumb a$$ story.

What you do is you you replace guys that either suck or are underperforming or are a bad cog or they simply cost too much. but then again I dont run a team.

[Aten]

There is a real difference, though. Last season, Sanchez was very up and down; through 8 games, he had 4 with a QB Rating of 60 or below and 3 with a QB rating of 106 and above (the 8th game he posted an 82.9). This season, Sanchez has played 7 games with a QB Rating of 85 and above and 1 with a QB Rating of 30.

The problem with Sanchez isn't that he's inconsistent. It's that he sucks deep, sucks outside the numbers, and makes lots of huge mistakes.

[RutgersJetFan]

The problem with Sanchez isn't that he's inconsistent. It's that he sucks deep, sucks outside the numbers, and makes lots of huge mistakes.

I don't know about the rest of you, but those quick outs he threw yesterday puckered up my butthole pretty damn tight when they were happening.

[T0mShane]

I wonder what it's like to root for a team where you don't have to argue over the degree of averageness of the QB.

[Jetscode1]

I agree with the poster who compared Sanchez to the early Eli days...he's had moments where he looks special and then moments where he looks like sh*t...the biggest problem besides the turnovers is his attitude...once he starts playing coughing the ball up his whole attitude changes...he seemes to suck the entire offensive team's energy with him. On the plus side, once he gets his confidence back the team responds. Just wish the guy would mature already.