Question: Why are all the regulars here so anti-Jets?

[Jetsfan80]

That I agree with. I was thinking more along the lines of O-line depth. Seems like other teams always have solid players waiting to step in. They're not 1st rounders, but they've been developed over the years. But, we want to be a power run team, so we need these guys.

Yeah, we've been particularly awful with the O-line, especially at RT. Maybe we thought Callahan would do more with what we gave him. Maybe we underestimated how much losing Woody would hurt. Even so, you need to have contingency plans in place and we haven't.

[RutgersJetFan]

If Sanchez takes one step forward, I believe that is all this team needs to get it done. A big step but you know what I am saying. They need good play out of the QB position.

Did you see anything as the season progressed in 2011, and in this year's camp/preseason thus far, to make you think that's more likely than not?

[JustInFudge]

The Giants were an injured team who got healthy at the right time too. Not just hot. As for their record, I will still maintain that the Jets did not beat a winning team last year, or beat just one. So, yeah, their record was 8-8, but to win in this league, you need to stack up well against the best teams. The Jets did not last year.

Sure, eliminate 10 turnovers... How many teams could you say that about though? Every team would be much better w/ 10 less turnovers. However, we have one of the leagues most turnover prone QBs. It is what it is.

I don't think we should be overpaying guys either. I think we need to develop our guys. The problem is, we're not drafting that many guys to develop. You don't think this has caught up with us?

True but the Giants beat 1 team with a winning record last year during the regular season, the Pats, until they got to the postseason. Getting people healthy at the right attributes to getting hot...every team deals with injuries.

I dont know how many teams I can say that about with turnovers. I know the Jets can because its pretty much the reason they missed the playoffs. Dont follow other teams close enough to know if thats what set them back in the same way it did with the Jets.

We've drafted plenty of guys in the mid rounds to develop. Greene, McKnight, Powell, Kerley, Hill, White, Vlad - all offensive players the Jets are committing to develop and all players who I think can contribute...o.k. maybe not Vlad. lol

[cr726]

I'm no Schotty fan, but I asked because it was my understanding that, as Hector posted, that Sanchez actually had more time to throw or until the sack.

My feeling on Sanchez has always been, that he barely played in college, and played in a system where he never got hit and his WRs were always open. I don't think he has the pocket awareness or the field vision to play in difficult situations. Now that he's facing that, I just don't think he's good enough. I think the NFL game is way too fast for him.

When he scrambled to get more time Holmes and Burress stopped after they ran their initial route. Shotty had Keller run 5 yard ins 95% of the time. It was ugly.

[JustInFudge]

That I agree with. I was thinking more along the lines of O-line depth. Seems like other teams always have solid players waiting to step in. They're not 1st rounders, but they've been developed over the years. But, we want to be a power run team, so we need these guys.

Yeah, we've been particularly awful with the O-line, especially at RT. Maybe we thought Callahan would do more with what we gave him. Maybe we underestimated how much losing Woody would hurt. Even so, you need to have contingency plans in place and we haven't.

Ah....the good old, OL depth debate.

Tell me, who is best back-up offensive linemen in the league?

[Jetsfan80]

Ah....the good old, OL depth debate.

Tell me, who is best back-up offensive linemen in the league?

Nobody you've heard of yet. Which is the point. Most teams plug and play. Then again, most teams aren't as bad at the QB position.

My concern is mostly with run-blocking though. We went from probably the tops in the league to middle-of-the-pack quickly. And I don't think the fact that Vlad seems to be a bust is the ONLY thing wrong with that picture.

[Bleedin Green]

The Giants were an injured team who got healthy at the right time too. Not just hot. As for their record, I will still maintain that the Jets did not beat a winning team last year, or beat just one. So, yeah, their record was 8-8, but to win in this league, you need to stack up well against the best teams. The Jets did not last year.

Sure, eliminate 10 turnovers... How many teams could you say that about though? Every team would be much better w/ 10 less turnovers. However, we have one of the leagues most turnover prone QBs. It is what it is.

I don't think we should be overpaying guys either. I think we need to develop our guys. The problem is, we're not drafting that many guys to develop. You don't think this has caught up with us?

The Giants were swept by the freakin' Redskins. The same Redskins team who the Jets beat the living crap out of. Despite all of the excuses as to why, the Giants were a decidedly mediocre team who needed a sh*t load of luck to even make the playoffs, never mind pull off what they did.

Of course none of this changes the vast improvement the Jets need in their QB play if they want to take that next step, but either way, the 2011 Giants is not what they should be striving to be, because in most NFL season's that's not even a playoff team, never mind a Super Bowl champ.

[Lil Bit Special]

I remember when I was just a high school boy attending jets games and wondering why the fans around me were so negative.

My father said to me, "Son, just wait a few years. You'll understand.

A few years later I finally understood.

My dad was so proud the day he realized I understood the pain it is to be a Jets fan.

Losing 2 AFC championship games isnt what I want to hang my hat on. Once in my ****ing life I'd like to see the Jets in the Super Bowl. And with the team we have assembled, I just dont see it happening. I hope we do well, but will be shocked if we're a playoff team.

[ZachEY]

Ah....the good old, OL depth debate.

Tell me, who is best back-up offensive linemen in the league?

It's not about having a back up, it's about having guys there to replace injuries and retirees. We learned 0 from the Pete Kendall disaster.

[pointman]

Those AFC Championships weren't out of nowhere. We'd been building towards that even with Mangini. In 2008, had Favre not gotten hurt, we had a real shot. The concern is that we missed our window and that flop wasn't a fluke.

I agree! The building towards the now*! Its exciting times!

And yeah, the concern is also a huge one. One that is scary. And one that I hope isn't the case!

[T0mShane]

Sooooooo, here's what this thread has taught me about being a positive Jets fan: You have to make claims such as "Mark Sanchez will take two steps forward this year, and so will Wayne Hunter." Then, when one of those mean ol' negative Jets fans says, "what makes you think that?," you have to automatically take grave offense that such a question would be asked. Good times.

[pointman]

I remember when I was just a high school boy attending jets games and wondering why the fans around me were so negative.

My father said to me, "Son, just wait a few years. You'll understand.

A few years later I finally understood.

My dad was so proud the day he realized I understood the pain it is to be a Jets fan.

Losing 2 AFC championship games isnt what I want to hang my hat on. Once in my ****ing life I'd like to see the Jets in the Super Bowl. And with the team we have assembled, I just dont see it happening. I hope we do well, but will be shocked if we're a playoff team.

Well, I got my fingers crossed that we both get to see it in our lifetimes... hopefully sooner than later, and maybe even more than once.

[RutgersJetFan]

It's not about having a back up, it's about having guys there to replace injuries and retirees. We learned 0 from the Pete Kendall disaster.

The majority of teams out there take a step back if their best OL goes down. The entire unit doesn't collapse. It's completely unacceptable. The entire offensive wagon for the 2nd straight year is hitched to the health of the center. It's so bizarre.

[Drums]

All Hope, No Delivery

[Matt39]

The thing about this season...generally when the national media thinks you're going to suck....you get to fly under the radar a bit. The Jets have a sh*tty roster on offense this season and we are on everyone's radar. Awesome.

A team like Tampa actually could sneak up on people this season. A team that was pretty bad last year...and really no one is talking about.

[stoicsentry]

It's not about having a back up, it's about having guys there to replace injuries and retirees.

...we generally call those people 'backups.'

[ZachEY]

...we generally call those people 'backups.'

I meant more that we want young guys developing who will eventually take over, not career back-ups.

But, yeah, you got me. +10

[#27TheDominator]

Sooooooo, here's what this thread has taught me about being a positive Jets fan: You have to make claims such as "Mark Sanchez will take two steps forward this year, and so will Wayne Hunter." Then, when one of those mean ol' negative Jets fans says, "what makes you think that?," you have to automatically take grave offense that such a question would be asked. Good times.

They were atrocious in 2011 and we were 8-8 with a pretty good chance at the playoffs. What makes you think things are so hopeless?

[Lil Bit Special]

Well, I got my fingers crossed that we both get to see it in our lifetimes... hopefully sooner than later, and maybe even more than once.

I'm tired of hoping. I want it.

Last year on the run up to the Super Bowl, I had to remind my wife that I have never had the chance to experience my team in the Super Bowl. That to enjoy the experience. She's seen her team in the Super Bowl 7 times. Me? Never. Im tired of hoping and waiting. Im tired of pouring my heart and soul out for this team. Im tired of trying to be positive when all I see is a mediocre offense and a defense that isnt as great as everyone thinks.

Im perfectly cool with people who still have that hope when the ball is kicked off week one. I wish I could be that way. But Im not. Im not overly negative to be negative (like some jackasses around these parts you're calling out) but Im a realist. I just dont feel we're that good. I just dont think we can compete. The only thing that I can be positive about is the best team doesnt win it every year. That some schlub 9-7 team can be champions. Thats what I can hang my hat on. That the schlubs on offense can do well enough when it matters in december and january to give me what I've longed to see.

So let's bring on the season. let's have it play out. And when the final whistle blows week 17, I just hope we arent the laughingstock of the league.

[Jetsfan80]

Losing 2 AFC championship games isnt what I want to hang my hat on. Once in my ****ing life I'd like to see the Jets in the Super Bowl. And with the team we have assembled, I just dont see it happening. I hope we do well, but will be shocked if we're a playoff team.

I don't understand this mentality. We made the playoffs Rex's first 2 years, and comfortably so in 2011. Last year we went 8-8, which appears to be the floor for this team. Why is it so crazy that we're a playoff team in 2012? I've come to EXPECT the postseason under Rex.

We already appear to have one of the best young pass-rushing defensive lines in the NFL (which is the # 2 thing you need in the NFL; # 1 being a QB). If you don't buy that, then you don't buy into Rex as a defensive mastermind either, because no one is better than Rex at coaching up D-Lines.

Sure, we have holes. QB the most glaring. RT another. Our LB's are too slow to play pass coverage effectively. None of our RB's are game-changers on a team that intends to run it 60+ % of the time. If/when Landry gets hurt, we're in trouble at the safety position.

But you'd be hard-pressed to find teams that don't have major questions. I think we're one of the top 5-10 most talented teams in the NFL, and if these guys put it all together, we're easily playoff-bound.

Yeah, I consider myself to have a foot in the "negative" camp. But I think the hate has gone a bit too far. We suck at AFC Title games, but so many would have you believe we're the worst team ever. We're not the Rams.

[Matt39]

I don't understand this mentality. We made the playoffs Rex's first 2 years, and comfortably so in 2011. Last year we went 8-8, which appears to be the floor for this team. Why is it so crazy that we're a playoff team in 2012? I've come to EXPECT the postseason under Rex.

We already appear to have one of the best young pass-rushing defensive lines in the NFL (which is the # 2 thing you need in the NFL; # 1 being a QB). If you don't buy that, then you don't buy into Rex as a defensive mastermind either, because no one is better than Rex at coaching up D-Lines.

Sure, we have holes. QB the most glaring. RT another. Our LB's are too slow to play pass coverage effectively. None of our RB's are game-changers on a team that intends to run it 60+ % of the time. If/when Landry gets hurt, we're in trouble at the safety position.

But you'd be hard-pressed to find teams that don't have major questions. I think we're one of the top 5-10 most talented teams in the NFL, and if they put it all together, we're easily playoff-bound.

I just dont see the offense being able to do anything. Bubble playoff teams in the AFC you'd consider who? You have to assume Baltimore and Pittsburgh would be there, so that eliminates one WC spot. Denver added Peyton.

Are the Jets better than a healthy Chiefs team? They have a lot more talent on offense than we do. Cincinnati? Tennessee? San Diego? I'd expect the Jets to be in the mix come DEcember because the defense is that good....I just dont think the defense can overcome how bad this offense really is.

[JustInFudge]

Nobody you've heard of yet. Which is the point. Most teams plug and play. Then again, most teams aren't as bad at the QB position.

My concern is mostly with run-blocking though. We went from probably the tops in the league to middle-of-the-pack quickly. And I don't think the fact that Vlad seems to be a bust is the ONLY thing wrong with that picture.

So how do you know the nobodies we've added cant do it? lol We have more depth than last year.

It's not about having a back up, it's about having guys there to replace injuries and retirees. We learned 0 from the Pete Kendall disaster.

We have 4 guys battling to make the roster who can provide depth. Again, if you dont think they are an adequate option, fine. Personally, I'd like to see it play out. But they've added depth (Heyer, Howard, Griffin, Schlauderaff, Landolt) - all added this offseason to provide depth on the OL.

Hopefully we dont have to use any of them. I think thats most teams wish. But saying we didnt address OL depth is 100% false.

It just find this gripe hilarious. Back ups are back ups for a reason. Nobody wants to start them. When teams do, they take a step back.

[Jetsfan80]

I just dont see the offense being able to do anything. Bubble playoff teams in the AFC you'd consider who? You have to assume Baltimore and Pittsburgh would be there, so that eliminates one WC spot. Denver added Peyton.

Are the Jets better than a healthy Chiefs team? They have a lot more talent on offense than we do. Cincinnati? Tennessee? San Diego? I'd expect the Jets to be in the mix come DEcember because the defense is that good....I just dont think the defense can overcome how bad this offense really is.

I'm not assuming anything about anyone else, ESPECIALLY not the Steelers. Think our O-line is bad? Since 2008, Roethlisberger has been sacked 168 times (league worst). And they have no Mendenhall and no contract for Mike Wallace. And James Harrison just had surgery.

I expect Cincy to regress, and we're better than the Titans. The Chargers will be interesting, but how long will Mathews be out? San Diego is always a paper tiger.

[Matt39]

I'm not assuming anything about anyone else, ESPECIALLY not the Steelers. Think our O-line is bad? They allowed like 160 sacks last year. And they have no Mendenhall and no contract for Mike Wallace.

That's fair. Pittsburgh makes the playoffs every season though...but I guessyou never know. People have said that the Pats are declining so many times and it never happens.

[sourceworx]

That's fair. Pittsburgh makes the playoffs every season though...but I guessyou never know. People have said that the Pats are declining so many times and it never happens.

At some point it will happen. Brady isn't getting any younger. The same goes for the core of the Steeler defense.

I'm not saying neither team will make the playoffs (both will likely win their divisions), but age is creeping up on both teams. And in the Pats' case, the only player who matters is Brady. I think they're much more dependent on him than they were in 2008 when he got hurt. If he goes down, or Father Time catches up to him, that team is done.

[pointman]

I'm tired of hoping. I want it.

Last year on the run up to the Super Bowl, I had to remind my wife that I have never had the chance to experience my team in the Super Bowl. That to enjoy the experience. She's seen her team in the Super Bowl 7 times. Me? Never. Im tired of hoping and waiting. Im tired of pouring my heart and soul out for this team. Im tired of trying to be positive when all I see is a mediocre offense and a defense that isnt as great as everyone thinks.

Im perfectly cool with people who still have that hope when the ball is kicked off week one. I wish I could be that way. But Im not. Im not overly negative to be negative (like some jackasses around these parts you're calling out) but Im a realist. I just dont feel we're that good. I just dont think we can compete. The only thing that I can be positive about is the best team doesnt win it every year. That some schlub 9-7 team can be champions. Thats what I can hang my hat on. That the schlubs on offense can do well enough when it matters in december and january to give me what I've longed to see.

So let's bring on the season. let's have it play out. And when the final whistle blows week 17, I just hope we arent the laughingstock of the league.

Great post, man. I feel what you're saying. Hope you get to see it happen. Thats pretty much all I can say. Awesome post.

[T0mShane]

They were atrocious in 2011 and we were 8-8 with a pretty good chance at the playoffs. What makes you think things are so hopeless?

The 8-8 canard!! They were 2-6 against teams with winning records and were non-competitive against the Patriots. I never said hopeless, though. I think they're an 8-8 squad with serious flaws in serious areas.

[SenorGato]

I just have a feeling that after this year we will be starting all over again, Rex and or Tannenbaum will get sh!tcanned and we'll go through the list of names that should run the team and it'll be another decade gone by without another at least SB APPEARANCE...I'm running out of seasons

Next HC should be Ferentz from Iowa. IIRC he has a steely glare.

[pointman]

Sooooooo, here's what this thread has taught me about being a positive Jets fan: You have to make claims such as "Mark Sanchez will take two steps forward this year, and so will Wayne Hunter." Then, when one of those mean ol' negative Jets fans says, "what makes you think that?," you have to automatically take grave offense that such a question would be asked. Good times.

You're real sensitive if you think thats what this is about.

[T0mShane]

Next HC should be Ferentz from Iowa. IIRC he has a steely glare.

Two words...

GRUDEN ERA

[pointman]

Two words...

GRUDEN ERA

Count me in on that one.

[JustInFudge]

Sooooooo, here's what this thread has taught me about being a positive Jets fan: You have to make claims such as "Mark Sanchez will take two steps forward this year, and so will Wayne Hunter." Then, when one of those mean ol' negative Jets fans says, "what makes you think that?," you have to automatically take grave offense that such a question would be asked. Good times.

You know what I've learned? The world is a cruel, cruel place. And even crueler if you're a Jets fan.

Its amazing we all find the will to go on...

[#27TheDominator]

The 8-8 canard!! They were 2-6 against teams with winning records and were non-competitive against the Patriots. I never said hopeless, though. I think they're an 8-8 squad with serious flaws in serious areas.

Yippee! I am not posting 8-8 as a reason not to bash the team or the moves, but not to bash the homers. The team can go in either direction. Every team in the NFL has serious flaws in serious areas. We weren't very competitive against the Pats this past year, but coming into 2011 we'd beaten them more often than not in the Rex era and we made some defensive moves (speed) to address them in 2012. Mainly what I am saying is the idea that this cursed franchise is beyond hope is ridiculous. They have the chance to be very good. Are they a lock? No, but IMO the only way they really tank is from dissension and BS in the lockerroom. Not from some vast lack of talent.

Two words...

GRUDEN ERA

Count me in on that one.

Not me!

[Gastineau Lives]

If our offensive line was as good as a line with three pro-bowlers should be, our number one running back wasn't Thomas Jones Jr. and our quarterback was better, I'd be skipping my ass into the season. Instead, I'm treading lightly, hoping I don't trip a landmine.

[pointman]

Yippee! I am not posting 8-8 as a reason not to bash the team or the moves, but not to bash the homers. The team can go in either direction. There is no team in the NFL with serious flaws in serious areas. We weren't very competitive against the Pats this past year, but we'd beaten them more often than not in the Rex era and made some defensive moves (speed) to address them. Mainly what I am saying is the idea that this cursed franchise is beyond hope is ridiculous. They have the chance to be very good. Are they a lock? No, but IMO the only way they really tank is from dissension and BS in the lockerroom. Not from some vast lack of talent.

Not me!

As always, very interested in your opinion, sir.