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kelticwizard

Why Not Keep Gates Instead Of Hill?

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They don't show the Jets preseason games up here, so all I know is from this board and news reports.  Both Hill and Gates are burners, (both have been timed at 4.31 40 yard dash), who are on the team to try to take the top off the defense.  Both have been with the team for awhile and have been disappointing, both came to training camp expected to show something if they plan to stay on the team.  Well, Hill has 3 catches for 42 yards and Gates has 6 catches, (2nd most on the team) for 116 yards, (most on the team by far).  In other words, two young fast receivers had to come through to be on the team, and one has and the other hasn't.  Why not keep Gates?

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Good question. I think it really comes down to the Jets have so much more invested in Hill in draft picks. So if they are equal in suckage you might as well give Hill one more shot. Plus Gates has looked decent in preseason before just to lay an egg in regular season.

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One thing I don't remember being discussed here that I was thinking about: Lets assume Barnes stays on the PUP list. Why not carry the extra WR - and keep both Hill and Salas - and if Hill is still crap after 6 weeks cut him to make room for Barnes.

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For the time he has been on the Jets, Gates has been a "project", which is to say he was lousy.  The last few games he played last season he actually showed a glimmer of coming around, catching a couple of first down passes his last game before getting injured.  As they took him off the field, I remember thinking to myself, "This guy is useless for the whole time he's been here, the last few games he finally shows something and it looks like he's all done here."  He gets an invite to training camp-certainly his last chance as a Jet-and statistically he's better than any other receiver.  If Hill isn't coming around, why not give the burner job to the guy who performed well?

Edited by kelticwizard

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IF Salas is so great than why are his contributions mostly with the 2's.

 

If Gates is so great that why are his contributions with 2's and 3's.

 

Hill is the only WR that has played mostly with the 1's.

 

As i said in another thread, Salas has been a training camp standout. Always love those underdog making it to the team stories. But if you look at his performance in the pre-season how much of it was playing against the 1's  ? Then the light hits you and suddenly you realize the feel good story has a not so high ceiling.

 

Gates has even a lower performance grade than that.

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IF Salas is so great than why are his contributions mostly with the 2's.

If Gates is so great that why are his contributions with 2's and 3's.

Hill is the only WR that has played mostly with the 1's.

As i said in another thread, Salas has been a training camp standout. Always love those underdog making it to the team stories. But if you look at his performance in the pre-season how much of it was playing against the 1's ? Then the light hits you and suddenly you realize the feel good story has a not so high ceiling.

Gates has even a lower performance grade than that.

Hill hasn't been exclusively with the 1s, and despite the level of competition, Salas has demonstrated an ability to box out defenders and catch the ball with his hands. Something Hill has yet to grasp. Like a football.

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For the time he has been on the Jets, Gates has been a "project", which is to say he was lousy. The last few games he played last season he actually showed a glimmer of coming around, catching a couple of first down passes his last game before getting injured. As they took him off the field, I remember thinking to myself, "This guy is useless for the whole time he's been here, the last few games he finally shows something and it looks like he's all done here." He gets an invite to training camp-certainly his last chance as a Jet-and statistically he's better than any other receiver. If Hill isn't coming around, why not give the burner job to the guy who performed well?

Some would say Hill was showing flashes too before injuries derailed him. This is especially true before he got clobbered in that one game earlier in the season.

I'd rather see them give Hill one more shot between the 2. At least they don't have multiple draft picks invested in Gates

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Hill hasn't been exclusively with the 1s, and despite the level of competition, Salas has demonstrated an ability to box out defenders and catch the ball with his hands. Something Hill has yet to grasp. Like a football.

 

Actually most of the time unless you count the last pre-season game.

 

Salas has had an impressive camp but most of the pre-season action is against 2's.

 

And while Salas is a feel good story his talent level and upside is not as high as Hill's.

 

 

In another note not sure how Haakim looked yesterday most of the game but does he even deserve a place as a returner.

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Gates has always been getting these injuries -not able to stay on the field besides his actual play 

 

I had said before the training camp even started that i wont be surprised if Gates had a strong showing at the training camp. Because remember he and Powell were the feel good stories of last year's training camp. Powell ended up showing something whil Gates fizzled out and then got injured.

 

But his performance in the training camp while good was not as great as it was last season. So i do not see him making it. Would be a big surprise based on pure WR ability.

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Actually most of the time unless you count the last pre-season game.

Salas has had an impressive camp but most of the pre-season action is against 2's.

And while Salas is a feel good story his talent level and upside is not as high as Hill's.

In another note not sure how Haakim looked yesterday most of the game but does he even deserve a place as a returner.

Hill looked terrible against the 2s last night. Untapped potential = lack of production. I recognize it, I was talking up Hill as the projected starter opposite Decker when training camp first began. He's played his way off the roster, imho.

Meanwhile, if Salas can be a Chrebet-like guy, coming in as a fourth receiver and moving the chains once in a while, maybe spot starting here and there, he's doing more than Hill can. Again, Hill is still struggling to catch the ball with his hands, or use his big frame to box out defenders. Not sure how long they're supposed to wait for that light to go on.

And Hakim looks fast as hell, but not like a smart returner. He does, however, look like a demon on the coverage units. Wallace Wright had a long (it seems) career here listed as a WR, but working exclusively on specials. Hakim may be able to like up wide once in a while, though, just to take the top off the defense.

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Actually most of the time unless you count the last pre-season game.

 

Salas has had an impressive camp but most of the pre-season action is against 2's.

 

And while Salas is a feel good story his talent level and upside is not as high as Hill's.

 

 

In another note not sure how Haakim looked yesterday most of the game but does he even deserve a place as a returner.

 

Feel good story? This guy was drafted in the same round that Idzik has spent his highest WR picks on thus far. This is a 6'2 210 lb wide receiver that actually knows how to play the position. Don't make him out to be Rudy.

 

Edited by Gastineau Lives

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Part of a receiver's job is to out and get the ball- help your QB out-Hill has not shown any ability to do that- Salas has and he is  a former 4th round pick as Gastineau mentioned not  a walk on

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Hill sucks. He has not progressed. Salas can catch and knows how to block out to make a catch.  If a receiver's game only depended on speed and not catching then Hill is uncuttable. HOWEVER, a wide receiver has to CATCH THE BALL and hill does not. Therefore, cut his ass. 

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Feel good story? This guy was drafted in the same round that Idzik has spent his highest WR picks on thus far. This is a 6'2 210 lb wide receiver that actually knows how to play the position. Don't make him out to be Rudy.

 

 

 

Salas has and he is  a former 4th round pick as Gastineau mentioned not  a walk on

 

 

Did we pick him. No. He was drafted by Rams and has had stops at New England and Philly along the way.  We signed him mid season when we needed warm bodies at the WR position. Not exactly a stellar career till date. So yeah he is a feel good story. For me he is.  But even the coaches do not have him rolling with the 1's. All his numbers are against the 2's in pre-season.

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Did we pick him. No. He was drafted by Rams and has had stops at New England and Philly along the way. We signed him mid season when we needed warm bodies at the WR position. Not exactly a stellar career till date. So yeah he is a feel good story. For me he is. But even the coaches do not have him rolling with the 1's. All his numbers are against the 2's in pre-season.

The last GM picked him, not this one. And Rex was never really on board with the selection. Not sure if Hill has any allies in management at this point.

As for the coaches, Rex has said Salas is in looks to be in pretty good shape. No such words for Hill.

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What is the difference anyway where or if the person is drafted- who can make plays and who has not shown the ability to make plays- Hill is in the second category

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Hill looked terrible against the 2s last night. Untapped potential = lack of production. I recognize it, I was talking up Hill as the projected starter opposite Decker when training camp first began. He's played his way off the roster, imho.

Meanwhile, if Salas can be a Chrebet-like guy, coming in as a fourth receiver and moving the chains once in a while, maybe spot starting here and there, he's doing more than Hill can. Again, Hill is still struggling to catch the ball with his hands, or use his big frame to box out defenders. Not sure how long they're supposed to wait for that light to go on.

And Hakim looks fast as hell, but not like a smart returner. He does, however, look like a demon on the coverage units. Wallace Wright had a long (it seems) career here listed as a WR, but working exclusively on specials. Hakim may be able to like up wide once in a while, though, just to take the top off the defense.

 

Everybody looked terrible in the last pre season game. Salas, Hill you name it.

 

I like Salas too. To me he is a feel good story of the camp. He has raised his level of play. I am not questioning that. And i would love to see him make the team.But his ceiling is not as high as Hill's. Otherwise why are offensive coaches letting Hill see more action against 1's and not letting the like of Salas and Gates have as many snaps against the 1's.

 

I would not like the JETS to prematurely drop Hill. Without him the WR suddenly looks devoid of any meaningful depth. And every snap i have seen he has contributed one way or the other. With his size, speed and cost he deserves to be on this roster that still not as deep at this position with talent. Infact now that we have kept him on the team for 2 season and 3 training camp we owe to ourselves to see how he does in the 3rd season.

 

The more i look at it the more i question Saunders and Haakim selection. I havent watched special teams so intently so i will take your word for it that Haakim is great at special teams. But that also mean he is not a good WR atleast not as yet.

 

I still would love to see Saunders on the PS or IR. I would like to Enunwa on the PS and hope no one claims him. Infact i still feel Enunwa with a quarter to half season on the PS would develop enough to be the first rookie WR to be able to actually make a worthwhile contribution at his position. Somehow i have felt that right from the start. And the way the JETS have shut him down looks like they want him to head to the P.S without incident.

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They don't show the Jets preseason games up here, so all I know is from this board and news reports.  Both Hill and Gates are burners, (both have been timed at 4.31 40 yard dash), who are on the team to try to take the top off the defense.  Both have been with the team for awhile and have been disappointing, both came to training camp expected to show something if they plan to stay on the team.  Well, Hill has 3 catches for 42 yards and Gates has 6 catches, (2nd most on the team) for 116 yards, (most on the team by far).  In other words, two young fast receivers had to come through to be on the team, and one has and the other hasn't.  Why not keep Gates?

Why don't the Jets ask Geno for the final verdict of who stays between Hill, Gates or Salas. After all he'll be the one throwing to them. :sign0182:

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The last GM picked him, not this one. And Rex was never really on board with the selection. Not sure if Hill has any allies in management at this point.

As for the coaches, Rex has said Salas is in looks to be in pretty good shape. No such words for Hill.

 

I was talking about purely Salas and his journeyman career in my response. Not Stephen Hill. Read the post i am responding to again.

 

 

But you are right.Hill may not have many allies in the JETS building and I hope better sense prevails. You are right while Rex who is so high on a special teamer like Haakim and even Salas, the same Rex is not so high on Hill. But then again while i support Rex coaching his defense when did we ever start taking his opinion as gospel as far as offensive players.

 

But he is stil the HC and the words coming out of Rex's press conference do not sound promising for Hill. But i really hope better sense prevails.Its not like the JETS FO and HC has never been wrong about its WR selection. We need to see what this kid has to offer in his third season.

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What is the difference anyway where or if the person is drafted- who can make plays and who has not shown the ability to make plays- Hill is in the second category

To me, if you're comparing Hill to Gates for a final roster spot, you take Hill because you used multiple picks including a 2nd rounder to acquire him. There really isn't much difference between the 2 ability wise thus far to do otherwise.

Now if it's between Hill abd Salas it's a little tougher, although I'd still opt for Hill one last time

Edited by billo83

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As Clyde Gates #1 fan on this board  will provide the following:

 

The only guys that should have any leg up are Saunders and Enunwa.  Maybe Decker.  Nelson was not in pads, an indication that he is in. The rest of these guys will make it on production, potential and versatility.  I think the thread has some merit in that Hill and Gates both bring speed and should have the ability to take the top off the D and demand S help deep.  Neither has really put it together much in pads

 

Denver makes a decent point about Hill playing against a higher level than Salas.  I keep hearing how Hill's big game came against a depleted Bills secondary, but those guys were probably several steps above the 2nd half preseason riff raff that Salas has been facing.  Camp too.

 

Hill and Gates both came in as fairly high picks (2nd and 4th).  Both were projects.  Gates was a basketball player that switched late and went to a small school.  Hill on an offense that did not throw much. If you are picking between the two the reason to choose Hill is that while Gates has only been in the NFL one year more, Hill is only 23, while Gates is 28.

 

Salas also has some pedigree.  He's a 4th round pick (112, Gates was 111 both in 2011) with plenty of production in college.  Salas bounced around a bit, but that is because he is not the kind of guy to last on a practice squad.  Same with Gates.  Gates lost his return duties to Hakim, an indication he is gone.  Salas has supposedly embraced playing specials.  Hill should have asked on the coverage teams IMO. 

 

I am surprised they plan on keeping Saunders and Hakim.  Maybe they will use Hakim on those deep routes, but I have seen literally nothing from him on O and it seems a bit much to carry two special team WR.  Enunwa seems interesting and I would hate to lose him. 

Edited by #27TheDominator

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