What do we do with Harvin?

[56mehl56]

like i said a few times harvin has said he WONT renegotiate his contract

When he finds out no one will give him 10M/yr that tune may change. I don't think too many teams will be breaking down his doors at that price tag.

 

I like Harvin and really believe we should restructure his deal to give him an upfront signing bonus which will allow us to lighten the average salary/yr. Something in the 7-7.5 range should be acceptable.

[jgb]

FYI, as much as I want Harvin on this team, I did not say I want to keep him on this team with his current salary. I think we should pay him is fair value, which is not what he's supposed to get. We need to find a deal that works for both the Jets and Harvin. This guy gives defensive coordinators nightmares. We need him!

Such a cop out to say "keep him but pay him less" when there is no chance it happens. Jets would be fools to pay him less because the trade off would be having to guarantee a chunk of it. Huge mistake with a player with turd tendencies. Options are keep or cut. No middle ground

[vincenzo69]

like i said a few times harvin has said he WONT renegotiate his contract

Good. Worst thing that happens is we restructure him and give him 3-4 years guaranteed money and he becomes Santonio Jr

[jgb]

Good. Worst thing that happens is we restructure him and give him 3-4 years guaranteed money and he becomes Santonio Jr

Just pay him less, so simple!

[slats]

Leon Washington, Kerry Rhodes, Jericho Cotchery, Bilal Powell. All fourth rounders.

This represents some of the best fourth round picks the Jets have ever made. But are you really trying to make the argument that the Jets should let Harvin go so they can find the next Bilal Powell?

[Ghost]

Such a cop out to say "keep him but pay him less" when there is no chance it happens. Jets would be fools to pay him less because the trade off would be having to guarantee a chunk of it. Huge mistake with a player with turd tendencies. Options are keep or cut. No middle ground

What makes you think there's no middle ground? He's not going to get the same amount of money anywhere else.

[jgb]

What makes you think there's no middle ground? He's not going to get the same amount of money anywhere else.

 

There is no middle ground because he is going to get GUARANTEED MONEY in any deal he signs. Why would we cut him and then give him that? Right now we have him on a pay-as-you-go, you-better-not-be-a-turd type contract. For a player like Harvin, that's what you want.

[Villain The Foe]

We certainly currently have the cap space for him and he showed big play flashes last year.  Do we want to retain him or not?  When do we have to make a decision on him?  For example if we go hog wild and go after a big name WR in FA can we then cut him?  If we fail on getting an impact player we keep him?

 

Also what are the cap implications if we keep him this year going forward, we can cut him essentially with no cap penalty going forward can we not?

 

(I don't get the impression he would be willing to rework his deal for less cash.)

 

What say you all?  Keep, give up the 4th rounder and move forward or dump him, give up the 6th rounder and use the extra dough on a different player in fa?

It depends, we need to see who's hitting free agency. 

[prime21]

He will have to take a cut and if he does then he would leave to be in a better situation than with the Jets QB mess.  The Jets will have to outbid the others even with a smaller yearly salary.  

[TJ]

This represents some of the best fourth round picks the Jets have ever made. But are you really trying to make the argument that the Jets should let Harvin go so they can find the next Bilal Powell?

Not at all.  This was in response to posts that made a fourth round pick sound like they're not of any value.   Harvin is an explosive player, but I feel that the Jets can better use the 10.5 Million dollars per year.  If we were to draft Amari Cooper or one of the other really talented receivers, we could still be in good shape and have 8.5 Million to spend on a really good FA.

[win4ever]

I don't want him back at $to million, because for that money you can sign one of Cobb/Maclin (albeit for more years) and go from there, and get the 4th rd pick back and give up the 6th.  If he won't restructure his contract for a pay cut, I release him, and move on.  There is no team out there that will pay him that kind of money, so we can move on.  

[Raideraholic]

When he finds out no one will give him 10M/yr that tune may change. I don't think too many teams will be breaking down his doors at that price tag.

 

I like Harvin and really believe we should restructure his deal to give him an upfront signing bonus which will allow us to lighten the average salary/yr. Something in the 7-7.5 range should be acceptable.

The Raiders will have a big interest in Percy Harvin if the Jets cut him. ( they need a player that can blow the top off the defense) No they won't pay him 10 million dollars( agree he's about 7- 7.5 million player) . Why I could see Percy Harvin playing for less with the Raiders. One he had his best season with Bill Musgrave( current Raiders OC) despite having sub par Qb play ( Vikings). Two he gets a chance to play with Derek Carr , throwing to him in Eagles type of offense.( Musgrave was Eagles Qb coach , and plans to incorporate a big part of that offense with the Raiders)

[vincenzo69]

The Raiders will have a big interest in Percy Harvin if the Jets cut him. ( they need a player that can blow the top off the defense) No they won't pay him 10 million dollars( agree he's about 7- 7.5 million player) . Why I could see Percy Harvin playing for less with the Raiders. One he had his best season with Bill Musgrave( current Raiders OC) despite having sub par Qb play ( Vikings). Two he gets a chance to play with Derek Carr , throwing to him in Eagles type of offense.( Musgrave was Eagles Qb coach , and plans to incorporate a big part of that offense with the Raiders)

I can also see the Pats going after Harvin he fits their offense perfectly and would be an upgrade over Vereen and Edelman.

[Raideraholic]

I can also see the Pats going after Harvin he fits their offense perfectly and would be an upgrade over Vereen and Edelman.

That's always a possibility too, but I think he would have to take a real discount for that to happen with the Patriots. I don't know if he be willing to do that. Maybe he takes a one year show me deal - looking for that big pay day , if he has a big year with Tom Brady.

[sourceworx]

This is ridiculous. Cut him? He's one of the most explosive receivers in the game. He's exactly what the Jets have been missing for nearly a decade and now he's a perfect fit in this new system.

Find a way to renegotiate his contract. Even if that means cutting him and then signing him to avoid giving up the 4th round pick.

Harvin in New England will catch 125 balls.

 

 

I think this is what is being overlooked with Harvin.  Chan Gailey's system is all about getting players in space, which happens to be where Harvin is most dangerous.  If I'm the Jets, I gladly give up the 4th for him and try to rework his contract. 

[Sperm Edwards]

only in jet homer world will all these players just quietly accept less money to stay with the team. his agent is going to play hardball with jets; i would. he will say either extend contract to a little lower $ per year and make a bunch guaranteed or keep him under current contract. cut him if you don't like those options and harvin will get to FA and sign a deal with his next team for guaranteed money (if he clears waivers, which i doubt he would).

 

if we cut him AND he clears waivers we will have to outbid a bunch of other interested teams, including our "friends" in Boston. How much less do you think we will get him for? $2M/yr tops? and we'd have to throw in a bunch of guaranteed money making him uncuttable for a couple years--dangerous with a player who has already turded out on two teams.

 

right now we have him locked up on an extremely cap friendly deal. no dead money if cut and he is motivated by prospect of his next contract. maybe he is getting a little more per year than one would like but that cap flexibility is worth the premium of a million or two tops imho.

 

and it isn't not giving up a 4th to keep him. it is trading a 4th for a 6th.

 

Sadly I think I agree with this most. I hate giving up the 4th but the 4th to 6th rounder allows a lot more flexibility. The problem is we need to decide on him before the draft.  If we end up with Cooper (or another WR) in round 1, either at #6 or from trading down slightly, then we can still cut Harvin any time until final cutdowns with no cap repercussions.

 

If we go through the entire draft and only pick up a 5th rounder at WR, then we'll have been better off keeping him at least through the end of camp if not through the '15 season. (On the off-chance that 5th rounder, or one of our '14 picks, shows he's worthy of starting in '15). It's overpaying for this season by $3-4M, but it's also preserving the ability to cut him with no repercussions at any time through August.

 

Also there are other WRs in FA to consider. If we end up with someone we like better in March, then we can let Harvin go as well. Might get a little sticky if we strike out on another WR, but tell Harvin he was going to be the slot guy in that instance, or he should just man up it's a business and he's been resistant to taking a pay cut off $10.5M; it's a business.

 

The only sticking point in this hold-our-cards strategy, really, is that 4th rounder. Or more correctly, downgrading from a high 4th to a high 6th. Much as I'd hate giving it up, the flexibility that buys us isn't worth risking the whole season on to possibly have no WR. And it's not like Harvin sucks or anything, and I'm very nervous giving him anything guaranteed now, even for this upcoming season. Make him play hard all summer long because his roster spot isn't guaranteed. 

 

Only other thing would be if they somehow "know" they're going to pick up another FA WR who's more reliable no matter how high the $, or after the combine they see they're going to draft a WR at #6 come hell or high water. Then and only then would I keep the 4th rounder and just cut him outright before March.

[jgb]

Sadly I think I agree with this most. I hate giving up the 4th but the 4th to 6th rounder allows a lot more flexibility. The problem is we need to decide on him before the draft.  If we end up with Cooper (or another WR) in round 1, either at #6 or from trading down slightly, then we can still cut Harvin any time until final cutdowns with no cap repercussions.

 

If we go through the entire draft and only pick up a 5th rounder at WR, then we'll have been better off keeping him at least through the end of camp if not through the '15 season. (On the off-chance that 5th rounder, or one of our '14 picks, shows he's worthy of starting in '15). It's overpaying for this season by $3-4M, but it's also preserving the ability to cut him with no repercussions at any time through August.

 

Also there are other WRs in FA to consider. If we end up with someone we like better in March, then we can let Harvin go as well. Might get a little sticky if we strike out on another WR, but tell Harvin he was going to be the slot guy in that instance, or he should just man up it's a business and he's been resistant to taking a pay cut off $10.5M; it's a business.

 

The only sticking point in this hold-our-cards strategy, really, is that 4th rounder. Or more correctly, downgrading from a high 4th to a high 6th. Much as I'd hate giving it up, the flexibility that buys us isn't worth risking the whole season on to possibly have no WR. And it's not like Harvin sucks or anything, and I'm very nervous giving him anything guaranteed now, even for this upcoming season. Make him play hard all summer long because his roster spot isn't guaranteed. 

 

Only other thing would be if they somehow "know" they're going to pick up another FA WR who's more reliable no matter how high the $, or after the combine they see they're going to draft a WR at #6 come hell or high water. Then and only then would I keep the 4th rounder and just cut him outright before March.

 

"I agree" would've sufficed

[Paradis]

Cut his ass. A 4th Rnd AND 10 mil? He never wanted to come here. Lots of WRs this year in FA

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[FTL Jet Fan]

Cut him. I would prefer we keep our 4th round pick. Harvin is always injured and is Santonio Jr. like other posters stated. Hopefully Big Mac cuts him, let him go to the raiders.

[Joe Jets fan]

Do nothing but sit back and watch what happens with an offense that fits his strengths and a QB that can play a little.

[RoadFan]

FYI, as much as I want Harvin on this team, I did not say I want to keep him on this team with his current salary. I think we should pay him is fair value, which is not what he's supposed to get. We need to find a deal that works for both the Jets and Harvin. This guy gives defensive coordinators nightmares. We need him!

WE need him?!?!? For what exactly?!!?!

To sit in the trainer's room for half a season rehabbing?

To take a swing at Decker?

To choke an assistant coach?

To divide the locker room over the QB position?

To undermine a 1st time head coach's authority?

Seriously, man. Really, REALLY, short-sighted and stupid statement.

[Sperm Edwards]

"I agree" would've sufficed

For a lesser man, yes.

[Sperm Edwards]

When he finds out no one will give him 10M/yr that tune may change. I don't think too many teams will be breaking down his doors at that price tag.

 

I like Harvin and really believe we should restructure his deal to give him an upfront signing bonus which will allow us to lighten the average salary/yr. Something in the 7-7.5 range should be acceptable.

But he's not going to get a $7-7.5M deal from someone else with $0 guaranteed. It's not an apples to apples comparison.

And I don't even think he'd get that much on the open market anyway. He hasn't put up an 800 total-yard season since 2011, and here we're entering 2015. I think people are overestimating how much another team would pay him.

I wouldn't sign him for $7.5M guaranteed for 2 years. I'd rather have him for $10.5M for 1 with nothing guaranteed where we could cut him at the end of August if he acts up (which he's far more likely to do with guaranteed $ coming to him).

[Ghost]

WE need him?!?!? For what exactly?!!?!

To sit in the trainer's room for half a season rehabbing?

To take a swing at Decker?

To choke an assistant coach?

To divide the locker room over the QB position?

To undermine a 1st time head coach's authority?

Seriously, man. Really, REALLY, short-sighted and stupid statement.

Yeah, what am I thinking? Let's go sign David Nelson!! I heard he's shockinly available. He will definitely gives defenses fits! Yeah, we need him. He's a home run hitter, which is something we haven't had in a really long time.

[flgreen]

But he's not going to get a $7-7.5M deal from someone else with $0 guaranteed. It's not an apples to apples comparison.

And I don't even think he'd get that much on the open market anyway. He hasn't put up an 800 total-yard season since 2011, and here we're entering 2015. I think people are overestimating how much another team would pay him.

I wouldn't sign him for $7.5M guaranteed for 2 years. I'd rather have him for $10.5M for 1 with nothing guaranteed where we could cut him at the end of August if he acts up (which he's far more likely to do with guaranteed $ coming to him).

 

 

Guys an ass, but I don't think he's dumb.  He's not going to act up in camp and jeopardize his 10.5 Million.  Once the season starts it's a different matter.  If he's on the roster opening game as a vet I believe  his salary is guaranteed for the year.

 

Depending how the FA-draft goes, I might make him one of the last  cuts, and attempt to resign him week 2

[jgb]

But he's not going to get a $7-7.5M deal from someone else with $0 guaranteed. It's not an apples to apples comparison.

And I don't even think he'd get that much on the open market anyway. He hasn't put up an 800 total-yard season since 2011, and here we're entering 2015. I think people are overestimating how much another team would pay him.

I wouldn't sign him for $7.5M guaranteed for 2 years. I'd rather have him for $10.5M for 1 with nothing guaranteed where we could cut him at the end of August if he acts up (which he's far more likely to do with guaranteed $ coming to him).

 

yup. i'd rather pay him an extra $2M and have the flexibility to cut him after next season. all these guys who want to cut and resign for $7M (assuming you are high bidder at that) it's going to look something like 4 yrs/28M with $12M guaranteed. You'd be paying him $19.5M next year if he santonios out and you want to cut him after the season. salary cap much more nuanced than "omg he is getting more per year than he is worth." guaranteed money is what equals cap hell. not salaries.

 

it's worth the money for the flexibility.

[vincenzo69]

That's always a possibility too, but I think he would have to take a real discount for that to happen with the Patriots. I don't know if he be willing to do that. Maybe he takes a one year show me deal - looking for that big pay day , if he has a big year with Tom Brady.

Harvin will be looking for a one year show me deal if the jets cut him. Nobody is going to give him a big deal after the s he pulled in Seattle and them getting cut by NY's Jv football team.

[vincenzo69]

yup. i'd rather pay him an extra $2M and have the flexibility to cut him after next season. all these guys who want to cut and resign for $7M (assuming you are high bidder at that) it's going to look something like 4 yrs/28M with $12M guaranteed. You'd be paying him $19.5M next year if he santonios out and you want to cut him after the season. salary cap much more nuanced than "omg he is getting more per year than he is worth." guaranteed money is what equals cap hell. not salaries.

it's worth the money for the flexibility.

Exactly

[Sperm Edwards]

yup. i'd rather pay him an extra $2M and have the flexibility to cut him after next season. all these guys who want to cut and resign for $7M (assuming you are high bidder at that) it's going to look something like 4 yrs/28M with $12M guaranteed. You'd be paying him $19.5M next year if he santonios out and you want to cut him after the season. salary cap much more nuanced than "omg he is getting more per year than he is worth." guaranteed money is what equals cap hell. not salaries.

 

it's worth the money for the flexibility.

I think those are crazy salary numbers for Harvin on a deal with any guaranteed money. Don't see any NFL team ponying up $7M+/year for him (unless he's willing to take $0 guaranteed like Revis did).

If Seattle didn't give him this outrageous contract that he's on no one would be talking $7M+/year for Harvin starting in 2015. Again, it's been 4 seasons since he's had 800 total yards (or 700 receiving yards) and is absolutely not on the upswing like an Emmanuel Sanders was when Denver offered him 3 years/$15Mwith only $6M guaranteed. Now Sanders didn't have Harvin's hype but after his behind the scenes stuff leaked out of Seattle I don't see anyone offering more than $6M per with $8-9M guaranteed maximum, and he might not even see that much. Look at what Hakeem Nicks got from Indy and he's a more prototypical outside WR.

People are seriously overestimating what he'd get in free agency. Al Davis is dead.

[Sperm Edwards]

Guys an ass, but I don't think he's dumb.  He's not going to act up in camp and jeopardize his 10.5 Million.  Once the season starts it's a different matter.  If he's on the roster opening game as a vet I believe  his salary is guaranteed for the year.

 

Depending how the FA-draft goes, I might make him one of the last  cuts, and attempt to resign him week 2

Also blustering that he won't take a pay cut from $10.5M won't endear him to any other NFL GMs. They won't offer that much anyway, but they have to be thinking they're buying a headache because Harvin thinks he's getting stiffed on $ and he was a headcase when he WAS getting $11M per.

I'd keep him through FA or the draft, whichever is the earlier time we lock up a WR. And as long as we're keeping him that long, keep him for the summer; at that point he's free camp fodder with $0 guaranteed and may seem worth overpaying for the year if he has a great camp and is on his best behavior. Yes his $ becomes guaranteed once he's on the opening day roster but if he's been a boy scout all summer it's less likely for him to do a 180; he likes getting paid and can't afford 2 malcontent seasons on 2 different teams so close together.

[shuler82]

Also blustering that he won't take a pay cut from $10.5M won't endear him to any other NFL GMs. They won't offer that much anyway, but they have to be thinking they're buying a headache because Harvin thinks he's getting stiffed on $ and he was a headcase when he WAS getting $11M per.

I'd keep him through FA or the draft, whichever is the earlier time we lock up a WR. And as long as we're keeping him that long, keep him for the summer; at that point he's free camp fodder with $0 guaranteed and may seem worth overpaying for the year if he has a great camp and is on his best behavior. Yes his $ becomes guaranteed once he's on the opening day roster but if he's been a boy scout all summer it's less likely for him to do a 180; he likes getting paid and can't afford 2 malcontent seasons on 2 different teams so close together.

Think the contract becomes guaranteed sooner than that .. 5th day of the waiver period in 2014 at least

Besides, if you keep him that long you've already given your 4th rounder up for the guy, so he's be difficult to turn around and cut

[DaBallhawk]

Work out a long term deal that slashes his salary in half or outright release him. He's a good player but not a starting wideout, and I'm not willing to pay a gadget type guy more than 5-6 mil. per year.

[RoadFan]

Yeah, what am I thinking? Let's go sign David Nelson!! I heard he's shockinly available. He will definitely gives defenses fits! Yeah, we need him. He's a home run hitter, which is something we haven't had in a really long time.

Two things.

If you didn't learn from the Holmes fiasco, there is probably zero hope for you.

Second, here is a stat for you. Harvin's career avg per catch is 11.5. In comparison, Golden Tate is 13.5. Vincent Jackson is 17. Stevie Johnson's is 12.7, in case you wish to argue the QBs they play with. Even Cecil Shorts is 2 yards better per catch. 11.5 per catch is NOT a home run hitter in anyone's definition. He is merely a fast fraud who also happens to be a total schmuck.

I rest my case.

#owned

[jgb]

I think those are crazy salary numbers for Harvin on a deal with any guaranteed money. Don't see any NFL team ponying up $7M+/year for him (unless he's willing to take $0 guaranteed like Revis did).

If Seattle didn't give him this outrageous contract that he's on no one would be talking $7M+/year for Harvin starting in 2015. Again, it's been 4 seasons since he's had 800 total yards (or 700 receiving yards) and is absolutely not on the upswing like an Emmanuel Sanders was when Denver offered him 3 years/$15Mwith only $6M guaranteed. Now Sanders didn't have Harvin's hype but after his behind the scenes stuff leaked out of Seattle I don't see anyone offering more than $6M per with $8-9M guaranteed maximum, and he might not even see that much. Look at what Hakeem Nicks got from Indy and he's a more prototypical outside WR.

People are seriously overestimating what he'd get in free agency. Al Davis is dead.

 

It only takes one. Someone will chase his past performance and offer him $7M per. If you cut him I think he's gone I guess is the point. The idea of cutting and renegotiating is a pipe dream imho. I'd rather sign a one year deal with the Pats and bet on myself than sign a 4 year deal with Jets for below what I think I'm worth (even if incorrect in that self-valuation).

[Sperm Edwards]

Think the contract becomes guaranteed sooner than that .. 5th day of the waiver period in 2014 at least

Besides, if you keep him that long you've already given your 4th rounder up for the guy, so he's be difficult to turn around and cut

I don't think so. His contract doesn't become guaranteed until (or unless) he makes the opening day roster.

I noted above about the 4th rounder, but it's the difference between a high 4th and a high 6th. In case you didn't see it, I didn't think it was worth the whole season's WR position to avoid that downgrade. If it does matter that much, there are better ways of reacquiring a 4th. Trade down 1 slot in round 1, trade down 7 slots in round 2 (giving back the 6th).

Then we can get rid of Harvin on our timeline not his: when we add a different FA WR (i.e. Cobb), or rookie (i.e. Cooper). And even still, we could string him along all summer and if he is playing the good soldier he may be worth it for the year - particularly if we draft Cooper - so he's not just handed a starting job he should be earning regardless of draft slot.