Maccagnan and Bowles Will Have Idzik’s Picks Under the Microscope, Again

[#27TheDominator]

There was no competition at QB.  There may have been no real competition at some of these other spots where Rex's guys were embedded.  We don't know, really?  Probably never will now.

 

Whose fault is that?  Honest question.

[DaBallhawk]

Watch the ******* kid.  It seemed obvious that he looked good going forward, but not going backwards.  I am making sh*t up, but you have with two passes defensed dropping in coverage? 

 

I have watched him. You haven't, that's the problem. Point out to us the games he struggled in vs the run and in coverage, that'd help...

 

He's a pure situational pass rusher, at least he was this past season. He barely saw snaps, and when he did it was to either drop in zone coverage to confuse the QB or to rush the QB. Rex wouldn't be stupid enough to bring in an undersized pass rushing LB/DE tweener to play the run and set the edge or cover people. That's just silly to even assume.

[AFJF]

Glenn-Weren't you one of those that jumped to conclusion on Idzik's draft?

 

Actually, I wasn't.  Unless I'm mistaken I was always sure to preface my comments with something along the lines of "as of right now" and often said that while things looked bad, there were a few players that could still work out.  I've said on several occasions that I'm hopeful for Dozier, Ik, Reilly, and Enunwa.  Ik had a great camp, Enunwa was the best WR for the two days I was at Cortland and made a nice diving grab on a Vick pass.  I've always referred to Dozier and Reilly as potential value picks.  Pre-draft I posted Dozier's scouting report and said I was too busy to do much research last year, but I liked what I was reading about him.

 

I feel like I saw things for what they were.  He made several moves that were undeniably horrible, which I criticized him for, and a few moves that are still incomplete.

[#27TheDominator]

I have watched him. You haven't, that's the problem. Point out to us the games he struggled in vs the run and in coverage, that'd help...

 

He's a pure situational pass rusher, at least he was this past season. He barely saw snaps, and when he did it was to either drop in zone coverage to confuse the QB or to rush the QB. Rex wouldn't be stupid enough to bring in an undersized pass rushing LB/DE tweener to play the run and set the edge or cover people. That's just silly to even assume.

 

I am pretty sure it was the 2nd Dolphins game.  I think that is the one where they cut Barnes and IK finally got some run.  I was surprised he only had 6 snaps.  I thought he looked good on the rush, but there was at least one play where he looked like he had no idea what to do.  I think that he got pulled because I had probably seen him for six snaps before that and didn't realize he was never back.

 

You are agreeing with me and telling me I am wrong?  I said he was only valuable as a situational rusher.  If he is completely lost when he drops to confuse the QB, why would he get more snaps?  The team had Babin and Barnes for much of the year that are also basically pass rush specialists.  I was glad they cut Barnes to give this kid more of a look. I didn't say he sucks or would suck.  I explained why I thought his snaps were limited.

 

PS: Undersized DE/LB types have been setting the edge for the Jets since at least 2006.  What do you think Pace and Thomas are?

[T0mShane]

The more you hear Rex discuss last season, the clearer it becomes that he treated it like a retirement party. Next year will be the actual rookie year for most of these guys.

[#27TheDominator]

The more you hear Rex discuss last season, the clearer it becomes that he treated it like a retirement party. Next year will be the actual rookie year for most of these guys.

 

There had to be a decent amount of power struggle between the GM who gave him no CBs and forced him to start Geno and a mule-headed, super loyal to "his" players coach like Rex.

[DaBallhawk]

I am pretty sure it was the 2nd Dolphins game.  I think that is the one where they cut Barnes and IK finally got some run.  I was surprised he only had 6 snaps.  I thought he looked good on the rush, but there was at least one play where he looked like he had no idea what to do.  I think that he got pulled because I had probably seen him for six snaps before that and didn't realize he was never back.

 

You are agreeing with me and telling me I am wrong?  I said he was only valuable as a situational rusher.  If he is completely lost when he drops to confuse the QB, why would he get more snaps?  The team had Babin and Barnes for much of the year that are also basically pass rush specialists.  I was glad they cut Barnes to give this kid more of a look. I didn't say he sucks or would suck.  I explained why I thought his snaps were limited.

 

PS: Undersized DE/LB types have been setting the edge for the Jets since at least 2006.  What do you think Pace and Thomas are?

 

1) What play are you referring to? It doesn't seem odd to you that nobody really know what you're referring to?

 

2) I'd agree with you in the sense that pass rushing DE's don't play the run and don't cover people. All they do is rush the QB, because they can't cover, they can't play the run. That's pretty much the case for EVERY pass rushing DE that comes out of college. Whether it's Suggs, Aldon Smith, Von Miller and the list goes on. That's where I'd agree with you, but that's about it. IK simply wasn't asked to play the run or cover people so I don't know why you'd say he looks lost in coverage or he can't set the edge. He's not supposed to do that, he's not being asked to do that. His job this season was to rush the QB. And from what I've seen the couple of times he dropped in zone coverage he looked VERY aware and knew what was going on and how to read the QB. I haven't seen Pace/DD do that all year.

 

3) Don't be ridiculous. Pace and Thomas are 6'4, 270 pounds. They are OLB's in a legit DE body. IK is a DE in a LB body. Besides, Thomas played DE here in the 4-3 before Mangini introduced his 3-4 defense, where Thomas absolutely sucked. Pace was a situational pass rushing LB his first few years with the Cardinals. He also sucks horribly vs the run. He can't set the edge for his life. Coples does that. Very good I might add.

 

Anyway, take it easy on the kid. The way you talk about him it's almost as if you think he's too stupid to play football, that he can't be trusted on, that he'll always be out of position and whatnot. He's a situational pass rusher, he looked great this season and if he studies hard and gets meaningful playing time in the preseason at OLB and he does well there he should get a shot to start there. I have full faith in him. If he's not ready for that yet he will be a beast of a pass rusher this year. Either way, he'll have an impact. No doubt.

[#27TheDominator]

Anyway, take it easy on the kid. The way you talk about him it's almost as if you think he's too stupid to play football, that he can't be trusted on, that he'll always be out of position and whatnot.

 

Forgetting the rest of your post, this part is flat out made up.  Not only didn't I say it, I clarified that I was not discussing his future, but only speaking to reasons he might not have gotten more run during the season in the post you quoted.  Keep fighting the good fight.

 

For what it is worth, Ik weighed 261 at the combine.  He's not exactly "undersized."  He is just short.

[Scott Dierking]

Forgetting the rest of your post, this part is flat out made up.  Not only didn't I say it, I clarified that I was not discussing his future, but only speaking to reasons he might not have gotten more run during the season in the post you quoted.  Keep fighting the good fight.

 

For what it is worth, Ik weighed 261 at the combine.  He's not exactly "undersized."  He is just short.

In other words, he's short for his height.

[GREENBEAN]

It's nice to blame Rex for this, but Enunwa was not poached off the practice squad despite sitting there until the final week. It would have been nice to see more of Reilly and Enemkpali, but they did not look ready to do it all when they did see the field.  IK in particular looked completely lost dropping in coverage.  That is why he primarily only replaced Babin as situational rusher.  Dozier came out of Furman and I don't think many expected much year one.  As a general rule it would be nice to have seen more of these guys, but for each one there are reasons we may have had to wait.  It is funny how many people are complaining about this while they spent last year yelling to bench Pryor and thinking they waited too long to cut Saunders.  

I hear ya but I think a lot of the complaining about Pryor etc happened when we thought we were still  "in it" which we technically were for half of the season. I was in the believer camp and honestly thought we were a team that could have done something last season. Especially after the first 3-4 losses. Then getting Harvin. I thought we were about to witness greatness and the greatest comeback season in history. LMFAO!!!!!

 

Either way it would have been nice to see some of these guys, but truth is I understand why we didn't. The last 3 games we could of and should have at least seen these guys throughout a normal game rotation. Especially IK and my secret fave Reilly. 

 

I'm excited to see if we have a true evaluation dept and a staff who can coach up the guys who are on the cusp for once. 

A guy like Edleman more than likely would have died on our roster the past 6 years and went the way of Don Boyd Odegard in the annals of NFL lore. 

 

Here's to a different experience as Jets fans. 

[GREENBEAN]

Absolutely.  It's always such a puzzling thing when a guy gets to the NFL and struggles to catch the ball.  I mean, if you caught enough passes in college to even warrant consideration to be drafted, it's odd that they can't carry that through.  I get that players are bigger and faster so maybe you just can't get open or beat a jam.  However, when  you are open and the ball hits you in the hands???  I just don't get it.

Fear of failure. An eroding thought process and A very difficult hurdle for many. 

[DRJETS]

LOL who wrote this article?

 

Forget about the early rounds busts. Idzik actually had the courage to take the 5'6 Jalen Sounders and Shaq Evan over ACC, 4.40 6'4 Maltavis Bryant and Bruce Ellington.  He was trying to make a point with those picks and now Enumwa is the unsung hero and the one that will set idzik free. lol  You can't make this stuff up. 

[GREENBEAN]

In other words, he's short for his height.

LOL. 

[AFJF]

LOL who wrote this article?

 

Forget about the early rounds busts. Idzik actually had the courage to take the 5'6 Jalen Sounders and Shaq Evan over ACC, 4.40 6'4 Maltavis Bryant and Bruce Ellington.  He was trying to make a point with those picks and now Enumwa is the unsung hero and the one that will set idzik free. lol  You can't make this stuff up. 

 

.

[#27TheDominator]

I know...the author totally ignores the fact that Idzik missed out on some of the best rookie receivers ever.  I mean, except for the part where he says he missed out on some of the best rookie receivers ever...but still...

 

 

Yes, but who wrote it? 

[AFJF]

Yes, but who wrote it? 

 

Some fat guy.

[DaBallhawk]

Forgetting the rest of your post, this part is flat out made up.  Not only didn't I say it, I clarified that I was not discussing his future, but only speaking to reasons he might not have gotten more run during the season in the post you quoted.  Keep fighting the good fight.

 

For what it is worth, Ik weighed 261 at the combine.  He's not exactly "undersized."  He is just short.

 

Boy, you're really dense. Just stop making things up and we'll see about the rest next season. So long.

[#27TheDominator]

Boy, you're really dense. Just stop making things up and we'll see about the rest next season. So long.

 

Two passes defensed! In one game!

[BP]

.

Lol Glenn take it from who it's coming from. Don't sweat it, nice job and thanks for all the good articles you provide.

[LionelRichie]

Keep writing these articles, I enjoy reading them and I'm sure it's not easy to churn out new content every couple of weeks.  

[JetBlue]

Great article.  I totally understand what the poster is was trying to say.  We know Idzik ****ed up big time missing out on some of those top time receivers.  The point is we really know very little about many of his picks last year because Rex didn't play them.   It will be interesting to see what Bowles can do with the pass rushing ability of an IK and football instincts and all around ability of Reilly.   Can Shaq Evans and/or Enuwa surprise and show that they deserved to be drafted in the best wide receiver class in a decade?  

 

No one knows what Dozier can be but I am interested in finding out.   Lets face it; the Class of 2014 can read.  The KNOW everyone has just about written the off as busts.  You don't think they want to prove everyone wrong and prove they can play in the NFL?   As another posted stated, most of these guys will be having their rookie years this year and I am really looking forward to it. 

 

Finally, it is not about Idzik; he is gone.  It is about the ability of our new GM/CS to properly evaluate and develop the players he selected  (assuming they can be developed).  One of the good things I have heard about Bowles is that he puts players in position to do what they do best; (Calvin Pryor Please!) that gives me hope that this draft may turn out to be not so bad after all.

[roscoeword]

I' m interested in seeing what the new regime does with Simms. At least they'll be objective. Rex never let the new guys play.

[DaBallhawk]

Two passes defensed! In one game!

 

Calvin Pace had 3 deflections in 16 starts. IK had 2 in a handful of snaps in one game. You sound dumber the more you post.

[jack48]

Whose fault is that?  Honest question.

Who can say?  What was the power structure?  Now we have our coach and GM reporting separately to our football guru owner.  Maybe Idzik was not allowed to tell Rex to try some of these guys when the team was 1-6?  That is what I am saying: we just do not know.

[#27TheDominator]

Calvin Pace had 3 deflections in 16 starts. IK had 2 in a handful of snaps in one game. You sound dumber the more you post.

 

Deflections or in coverage?  Do you admit there is a difference?

[#27TheDominator]

Who can say?  What was the power structure?  Now we have our coach and GM reporting separately to our football guru owner.  Maybe Idzik was not allowed to tell Rex to try some of these guys when the team was 1-6?  That is what I am saying: we just do not know.

 

I was just wondering what you thought.  There were plenty of reports that Idzik was forcing them to start Geno.  With that kind of power you would think he would force some of these other kids to play more.  There are spots where he forced Ryan's hand (Winters and Milliner in 2013, McDougle in 2014) but no edict from the top reported.  I am hopeful the structure will be harmonious this season, but with Wolf and Casserly lurking around there is always the opportunity for another power struggle.

[section314]

Really anxious to see McDougle.  I was at camp the day him and Milliner got hurt and I was so pissed.  Definitely one of the guys I was looking forward to watching when I went up there.

Stay away from camp this year, please!

[AFJF]

Stay away from camp this year, please!

 

LOL...I thought somebody might say that...I did kinda think about that on the looong drive home.  Both starting CB's down within a few minutes of each other...bad day.

[sirlancemehlot]

He was.

 

EDIT:  He also looked lost setting the edge

you guys kill me.  Dude was on the field for forty plays in a sixteen game season and yet he was "bad at coverage" and "bad at setting the edge".  Forty plays.  I can barely remember seeing him take the field.

[#27TheDominator]

you guys kill me.  Dude was on the field for forty plays in a sixteen game season and yet he was "bad at coverage" and "bad at setting the edge".  Forty plays.  I can barely remember seeing him take the field.

 

What kills me is that guys that didn't even remember seeing him on the field are going to be saying I told you so to me if he turns out.  I was looking for him and watching him on his plays specifically because I have high hopes for him.  All I said is that he didn't look ready to play very much.  He seemed like he was only ready to be used as a situational pass rusher.  The team had at least two of those already on roster in Barnes and Babin, so I am not surprised he didn't see more snaps.  The word on him was that he would take some time to develop. I thought that Reilly was more ready to just go out and play whatever the situation, but Reilly seems to be an "eh" prospect while IK has some pop. 

[Charlie Brown]

My question is if these guys who didn't play last year now get to play, and they then play well, will Idzik be vindicated and Rex be seen as a incompetent developer of NFL talent?

 

Makes one think....

[faba]

My question is if these guys who didn't play last year now get to play, and they then play well, will Idzik be vindicated and Rex be seen as a incompetent developer of NFL talent?

 

Makes one think....

There should not be a rush to judge a rookie based on one year of play- but Idzik's draft was not a good one  considering all the picks he had and the players he missed on based on the first year.

[Jetsmanjb]

pray for Dee Milliner...

[Jetsmanjb]

pray for Dee Milliner...

[Jetsmanjb]

I'm calling it now that Dee Milliner & McDougle will both be on IR next year again