Tom Brady's suspension re-instated (MERGED)

[Larz]

13 minutes ago, PFSIKH said:

Pete agrees.  Dumb post.

see the headset ?  who do yo think hacked into it ?

[Larz]

2 hours ago, ghost_in_pads02 said:

getting them back for spygate because apparently for the other 31 owners and fans outside of N.E. their penalty wasn't harsh enough. even though a lost of a draft pick and a million dollar fine seems pretty harsh...but what do I know, i do not dislike any sports team because they CHEAT so much!

don't you see the connection ?

[ghost_in_pads02]

42 minutes ago, Larz said:

don't you see i can't stop whining n b*tching ?

Yea i can.

[Maxman]

4 hours ago, PatsFanTX said:

For the moment.

In a move to appease the NFLPA, Goodell revokes Brady's 4 game suspension and fines him $25,000.

Which should have been the penalty in the first place.

Want to bet on that one?

[EM31]

Signing in from Montego Bay Jamaica to register the fact that I approve of this thread.

What happened to all of the New England lawyers who were happy to give us their legal opinions before the appeals court ruled?  Or is it somehow that the appeals court is in the pocket of Goodell and other 31 teams?

Trying to catch up here.

[Jet Fan RI]

24 minutes ago, EM31 said:

Signing in from Montego Bay Jamaica to register the fact that I approve of this thread.

What happened to all of the New England lawyers who were happy to give us their legal opinions before the appeals court ruled?  Or is it somehow that the appeals court is in the pocket of Goodell and other 31 teams?

Trying to catch up here.

To be fair, AFCeast is a NE lawyer. Immediately after the Berman ruling he opined he expected the decision would be reversed on appeal. He was right.

[AFCEastFan]

16 minutes ago, EM31 said:

Signing in from Montego Bay Jamaica to register the fact that I approve of this thread.

What happened to all of the New England lawyers who were happy to give us their legal opinions before the appeals court ruled?  Or is it somehow that the appeals court is in the pocket of Goodell and other 31 teams?

Trying to catch up here.

I'm still here.  Didn't know there were other New England lawyers on this site. 

Here is what I said on this subject before Berman ruled:

 

On 8/31/2015 at 2:09 PM, AFCEastFan said:

Brady is not going to win this case.  In the unlikely event that Berman rules in his favor, the 2nd Circuit will tip him on appeal.  As Senator Trent would say, you can take that to the bank.      

 

And here is what I said before the 2nd Circuit ruled ("they" is the Patriots; "him" is Garoppolo):

 

On 4/20/2016 at 0:30 AM, AFCEastFan said:

I agree that they will need him for the first 4 games.  And they wouldn't throw Hackenberg or some other newb out there. 

 

 

 

 

[AFCEastFan]

4 minutes ago, Jet Fan RI said:

To be fair, AFCeast is a NE lawyer. Immediately after the Berman ruling he opined he expected the decision would be reversed on appeal. He was right.

Thanks.  Our posts crossed. 

[drdetroit]

31 minutes ago, EM31 said:

Signing in from Montego Bay Jamaica to register the fact that I approve of this thread.

What happened to all of the New England lawyers who were happy to give us their legal opinions before the appeals court ruled?  Or is it somehow that the appeals court is in the pocket of Goodell and other 31 teams?

Trying to catch up here.

Enjoy Scotches Jerk Chicken.  

[drdetroit]

4 hours ago, neckdemon said:

idk if i believe it so much payback for spygate but rather goodell spanking them for being caught cheating again after he covered for them the first time.

The half-tail investigation and subsequent disciplinary action was the result of 31 owners reading the riot act to Goodell that they were sick of seeing Kraft and the Pats get favorable treatment.

[AFCEastFan]

6 hours ago, Jet Fan RI said:

OK. I found out that I could skip the theatrical aspects of the Leonard report and was able to read some portions of the report. I found the report written in an incredibly biased and unscientific manner. It appears to me to have been written by someone with an agenda. Specifically, an agenda to exculpate Brady rather than to simply investigate the validity of the Exponent testing.

For example,the P. 112, section title:"The equation that was used to wrongly incriminate Tom Brady." The "incrimination" was primarily based on texts from ball guy's phones, witness testimony, and destruction of evidence. Also, I was amazed to see the inclusion of a copy of a tweet on p. 145 of the Leonard report, apparently included to play to reader biases against some of the information put out by press members. This sort of thing is entirely inappropriate in a scientific report. This makes the report to seem something akin to a Facebook post.

Two egregious oversights are that the Leonard report took no account that the Exponent work made use of a "Master Gauge" that was used to normalize the measured pressures. (A global search of the Leonard report shows that the word "master" appears no where.) I suspect that is the reason for the erroneous claim on p. 133 of the Leonard report that Fig. 26  is "simply wrong" because it used the wrong pressures.

The second egregious omission in the Leonard report is that the game day simulations conducted in the Exponent work were no where discussed. (Again, a global search of the Leonard report for the word "simulation" shows the word does not appear.) The game day simulations were the most conclusive results demonstrating deflation exceeding that resulting from natural causes.

In short, not only is the Leonard report not "definitive," it is biased and its conclusions are invalid.

Finally, let me invite you to read the discussions of the game day simulations given in the technical appendix of the Weiss report. Those discussions appear on pp. 56-61 of the appendix (which are actually pp. 216-221 of the Weiss report). I promise there are no equations. But there are two graphs, Fig. 29 and Fig. 30. Those two graphs present quite convincing evidence that the Pat balls "more probably than not" (actually, much more probably than not, in my opinion) that the deflation of the Pat balls exceeded what could have occurred due to natural causes alone. And compare the phraseology of the Exponent writing with that in the Leonard report to see the difference between a scientific report and a report that is unscientific.

If anything on the pages I have recommended for you to read are unclear, I will be happy to try to answer any question you may have.
 

Thanks.  Much appreciated.  I have reviewed the pages of the Wells report you cited and I agree that it is compelling and well-presented (and not as difficult to follow as I had thought). 

However, I do not want to discount Leonard's analysis solely because it may appear biased and/or poorly presented.  (Though if he is just plain wrong, then that is of course another story).  But I do think that he has tried to address the two major omissions you mention, by challenging the transient analyses on which the Exponent conclusions were based.  Of course, it was not done in the most organized manner (to say the least) -- as far as I can tell, it was done through a short (6 minute) video and his endorsement (on twitter, lol) of some random guy's data analysis.  

Below are those two items.  Again, if the analyses below are correct, then I don't want to discount them just because they may be poorly presented.  But if they are wrong, then I am done and would agree that the Exponent report is compelling and has not been validly challenged by anyone.   

https://wellsreportmistakes.com/

 

[Mainejet]

8 hours ago, AFCEastFan said:

I have no idea how smart you are.  Or even who you are.  For all I know you are Stephen Hawking. 

That said, I have no idea what we are arguing about.  If you have new evidence that the Patriots cheated in the Super Bowl against the Rams, then that is cool (and would also be responsive to my earlier posts).  Alternatively, If you want to use me as an imaginary foil and demolish arguments that I've never made, that is OK with me too. 

How could you have no idea what we are arguing about? I posted to you that the Patsies got exactly what they deserved. You responded by claiming "Where there's smoke, there's fire" is the limit of my "critical thinking ability". So you must think you're smarter than me? I told you it was common sense and you clearly disagree with that idea. You think I must have to have an academic pedigree to see/understand what really happened, right?

So lets hear it. Why do I not understand or lack the critical thinking ability to correctly delineate what happened with the Patsies and their cheating?

[AFCEastFan]

19 minutes ago, Mainejet said:

How could you have no idea what we are arguing about? I posted to you that the Patsies got exactly what they deserved. You responded by claiming "Where there's smoke, there's fire" is the limit of my "critical thinking ability". So you must think you're smarter than me? I told you it was common sense and you clearly disagree with that idea. You think I must have to have an academic pedigree to see/understand what really happened, right?

So lets hear it. Why do I not understand or lack the critical thinking ability to correctly delineate what happened with the Patsies and their cheating?

Academic pedigree has nothing to do with this.  Clearly, you understand very well what you are talking about and I have no clue what you are talking about.   So whatever my "academic pedigree" may be, it is not helping me one bit in this discussion -- your understanding far exceeds mine.   

[afosomf]

7 hours ago, AFCEastFan said:

Academic pedigree has nothing to do with this.  Clearly, you understand very well what you are talking about and I have no clue what you are talking about.   So whatever my "academic pedigree" may be, it is not helping me one bit in this discussion -- your understanding far exceeds mine.   

Look it is quite simple, if brady felt deflating balls did not help him he wouldnt go at length to do so. Also after getting caught all he had to say was  " I instructed deflator to make sure all balls were at lowest legal PSI, if he went below that level. that was wrong and I should pay the $25k fine"   This would have been over and done with.

 

Brady Lying about it and destroying evidence is why punishment was so severe.  Also past Cheats history had an impact on 2nd penalty.

[AFCEastFan]

8 minutes ago, afosomf said:

Look it is quite simple, if brady felt deflating balls did not help him he wouldnt go at length to do so. Also after getting caught all he had to say was  " I instructed deflator to make sure all balls were at lowest legal PSI, if he went below that level. that was wrong and I should pay the $25k fine"   This would have been over and done with.

 

Brady Lying about it and destroying evidence is why punishment was so severe.  Also past Cheats history had an impact on 2nd penalty.

Good heavens, mon.  This is your evidence that the Patriots cheated against the Rams in the Super Bowl?  That is all I have been talking about.  

(I agree with everything you have said here, by the way).   

[BurnleyJet]

Love Pats* trolls constantly running to defend Brady's honour!

[PatsFanTX]

Want to bet on that one?

Nah, I'll pass on that one.

[Bruce Harper]

4 minutes ago, BurnleyJet said:

Love Pats* trolls constantly running to defend Brady's honour!

It's embarrassing. 

[Larz]

Yea i can.

So you don't dispute the cheating part. Cool. Pros bruh

Sent from my E6782 using Tapatalk

[Larz]

So you don't dispute the cheating part. Cool. Props bruh

Sent from my E6782 using Tapatalk

Sent from my E6782 using Tapatalk

[Larz]

So you don't dispute the cheating part. Cool. Props bruh

Sent from my E6782 using Tapatalk

Sent from my E6782 using Tapatalk

[PatsFanTX]

It's embarrassing. 

Really?

What do you call going 47 years without playing in a Super Bowl?

Now that is embarrassing.

[afosomf]

1 minute ago, PatsFanTX said:

Really?

What do you call going 47 years without playing in a Super Bowl?

Now that is embarrassing.

Living in your mom's basement is embarrassing mon

[AzogtheDefiler]

Drew Brees, whom I respect a ton 100% agreed with everything I said. He wants transparency and there is very little.

[AzogtheDefiler]

16 hours ago, Jet Fan RI said:

My post was only responding to AFCeast's statement that the Leonard report was a definitive refutation of the Exponent report. It is nothing of the sort.

I am reminded of the report titled something like "100 scientists against Einstein" that appeared at some point after his relativity theory appeared. Einstein said something like, "if I were really wrong, wouldn't one scientist be enough?" To me, the Leonard report appears to be something written by a New Englander, for New Englanders. And it is about as valuable as "100 scientists against Einstein."

Now, as to why the penalty was more severe than that specified in the rules, I can only give my opinion. For one thing, it was worse than mere ball deflation. There was also destruction of evidence and failure to cooperate with the investigation. The previous cheating by the team also probably had some impact.

Thats fair but why can't the commissioner say just that?

[Rangers9]

I think Brady will pursue this and appeal the decision. 

[Jetsfan80]

1 hour ago, PatsFanTX said:

Really?

What do you call going 47 years without playing in a Super Bowl?

Now that is embarrassing.

Both are embarrassing, but in very different ways. 

One day my team may win a Super Bowl, and hopefully it will be done without cheating, and that will be a great day.  But being forced to defend rooting for a cheating franchise, for a lifetime?  I'd rather not be in your shoes.

[AzogtheDefiler]

7 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Both are embarrassing, but in very different ways. 

One day my team may win a Super Bowl, and hopefully it will be done without cheating, and that will be a great day.  But being forced to defend rooting for a cheating franchise, for a lifetime?  I'd rather not be in your shoes.

Duke has 5 championships. I have heard for years that it was due to nefarious crap. All lies. A championship is a championship. Period.

[greenwichjetfan]

11 minutes ago, AzogtheDefiler said:

Duke has 5 championships. I have heard for years that it was due to nefarious crap. All lies. A championship is a championship. Period.

So it stands to reason why you and nyjunc (unc* fan) are constantly the only "jets" fans defending the pats* harder than most pats fans themselves.

It's all coming together. 

[Jetsfan80]

4 minutes ago, greenwichjetfan said:

So it stands to reason why you and nyjunc (unc* fan) are constantly the only "jets" fans defending the pats* harder than most pats fans themselves.

It's all coming together. 

The insecurity out of both of them is pretty insane.  @gEYno would have a field day analyzing them.

[nyjunc]

26 minutes ago, greenwichjetfan said:

So it stands to reason why you and nyjunc (unc* fan) are constantly the only "jets" fans defending the pats* harder than most pats fans themselves.

It's all coming together. 

I thought he was a Pat fan?  I defend what is right, I hate the Pats, can't stand them.  hate all Boston teams but I appreciate greatness and Brady is the best I have ever seen.  Can't wait until he retires.

[nyjunc]

2 hours ago, afosomf said:

Living in your mom's basement is embarrassing mon

don't worry, some day you'll get out.

[Klecko73isGod]

2 hours ago, PatsFanTX said:

Really?

What do you call going 47 years without playing in a Super Bowl?

Now that is embarrassing.

I don't know... what do you call spending 14 hours a day on a rival team's fansite in a desperate attempt for personal validation because your real life is devoid of any real joy?

[JustInFudge]

2 hours ago, PatsFanTX said:

Really?

What do you call going 47 years without playing in a Super Bowl?

Now that is embarrassing.

I'd be more embarrassed if I was a Cheatriots fan, posting on a Jets message board defending the biggest frauds in the history of sports.

 

[afosomf]

9 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

don't worry, some day you'll get out.

your momma sez hi