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Tom Brady's suspension re-instated (MERGED)

Matt39

By Matt39
in NY Jets Forum

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Savage69

Savage69

Posted
Posted
3 minutes ago, The Crusher said:

You blindly follow a team that has been cheating for more than a decade and you call everyone else Helen Keller.  LOL

A Helen Keller clone was hired to keep a close watch on the Pats cheating so far she hasn't seen a thing..;)

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Dcat

Dcat

Posted
Posted
3 minutes ago, The Crusher said:

You blindly follow a team that has been cheating for more than a decade and you call everyone else Helen Keller.  LOL

Hey, he's not here to "defend" the cheaters, remember?  LOL.  Pretty funny considering he does nothing else BUT defend the cheaters everytime he posts here.  Obviousy it is he who has the bleeding anus...  otherwise why would he bother?  Have you ever seen a troll without any self awareness such as this Ghost one?  

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AFCEastFan

AFCEastFan

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, Mainejet said:

Forever in denial?????? Listen pal, the Patsies got EXACTLY what they deserved. Not only did they cheat with video taping incidents, but they got caught a second time. Is it any wonder the Patsies got caught for cheating second time? I mean after all, doesn't it go to COMMON SENSE that where there's smoke, there's fire? You have no one to blame but yourselves. It's only logical that the NFL would be watching for the Patsies to cheat again, they already caught you once - RED HANDED. So accept the fact that the Patsies in general (maybe not all of the players), but the vast majority AND the coaching staff have all been complicit in the incidents of the past. You won GAMES (the actual amount will never truly be known) via illegal activity in the eyes of the NFL and EVERY person outside of NE. Of course everyone in NE is still suffering from delusions of persecution. All I can say is, "Convenient excuse. Because you certainly do not have a real excuse."

If "where there's smoke there's fire" is the limit of your critical thinking ability, then that is up to you.  While I certainly would not put it past Belichick to have cheated in his first Super Bowl, it will take more than idiotic platitudes (or an offensive game plan built around Marshall Faulk) to convince me that he did.  

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Maxman

Maxman

Posted
Posted
4 hours ago, AzogtheDefiler said:

We were the debating the punishment severity not the crime.

As long as we are all on the same page that Brady and the Patriots are cheaters then that is fine with me.

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greenwichjetfan

greenwichjetfan

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, ghost_in_pads02 said:

Too bad nobody was...plenty of facts to back all that up, but. no need to rehash.

i don't feel like debating with posters who are just gonna act like "helen keller" whenever bring up anything reasonable. so it's cool. You guys can stay hurt. 

 

Feel free to peace out anytime. 

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Mainejet

Mainejet

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, AFCEastFan said:

If "where there's smoke there's fire" is the limit of your critical thinking ability, then that is up to you.  While I certainly would not put it past Belichick to have cheated in his first Super Bowl, it will take more than idiotic platitudes (or an offensive game plan built around Marshall Faulk) to convince me that he did.  

Oh, so I must be ignorant because using common sense is the limit of my critical thinking ability? So essentially you THINK you're smarter than me? I'll tell you what pal, your academic pedigree does not beat the strength of my argument. You don't need "critical thinking" as you put it to know COMMON SENSE.

And lets talk about general intelligence in reference to what you just posted, shall we? You essentially admit above that Bellichick cheated to win his first SB. But wait, YOU DON'T THINK HE EVER CHEATED AFTER THAT?! Yeah, like his conscience got to him?! WTF are you smoking? He wasn't caught until the 2007 opener and you THINK he only cheated to win his first SB, but then afterward he felt bad about what he did and quit? Is that really what you're claiming? Because if it is? I've got news for you. There's only one dingbat in this debate and it certainly isn't me.

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Maxman

Maxman

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, ghost_in_pads02 said:

Too bad nobody was...plenty of facts to back all that up, but. no need to rehash.

i don't feel like debating with posters who are just gonna act like "helen keller" whenever bring up anything reasonable. so it's cool. You guys can stay hurt. 

 

I am going to stay hurt because it feels so good right now.

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Mainejet

Mainejet

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, Savage69 said:

A Helen Keller clone was hired to keep a close watch on the Pats cheating so far she hasn't seen a thing..;)

What difference does it make? Even if she saw something it's not like she could tell the NFL. The only thing that would ever come out is GHFUJF KUGBUJGJKG JJ FVNFBGN^%)(&%&P(OPOBTIING LB  UG :

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AFCEastFan

AFCEastFan

Posted
Posted
28 minutes ago, Mainejet said:

Oh, so I must be ignorant because using common sense is the limit of my critical thinking ability? So essentially you THINK you're smarter than me? I'll tell you what pal, your academic pedigree does not beat the strength of my argument. You don't need "critical thinking" as you put it to know COMMON SENSE.

And lets talk about general intelligence in reference to what you just posted, shall we? You essentially admit above that Bellichick cheated to win his first SB. But wait, YOU DON'T THINK HE EVER CHEATED AFTER THAT?! Yeah, like his conscience got to him?! WTF are you smoking? He wasn't caught until the 2007 opener and you THINK he only cheated to win his first SB, but then afterward he felt bad about what he did and quit? Is that really what you're claiming? Because if it is? I've got news for you. There's only one dingbat in this debate and it certainly isn't me.

I have no idea how smart you are.  Or even who you are.  For all I know you are Stephen Hawking. 

That said, I have no idea what we are arguing about.  If you have new evidence that the Patriots cheated in the Super Bowl against the Rams, then that is cool (and would also be responsive to my earlier posts).  Alternatively, If you want to use me as an imaginary foil and demolish arguments that I've never made, that is OK with me too. 

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Jet Fan RI

Jet Fan RI

Posted
Posted
18 hours ago, AFCEastFan said:

Didn't realize his written materials were so user-unfriendly.  I have only seen his videos and read secondary summaries.  I will let you know if I find anything else, but that may be it. 

OK. I found out that I could skip the theatrical aspects of the Leonard report and was able to read some portions of the report. I found the report written in an incredibly biased and unscientific manner. It appears to me to have been written by someone with an agenda. Specifically, an agenda to exculpate Brady rather than to simply investigate the validity of the Exponent testing.

For example,the P. 112, section title:"The equation that was used to wrongly incriminate Tom Brady." The "incrimination" was primarily based on texts from ball guy's phones, witness testimony, and destruction of evidence. Also, I was amazed to see the inclusion of a copy of a tweet on p. 145 of the Leonard report, apparently included to play to reader biases against some of the information put out by press members. This sort of thing is entirely inappropriate in a scientific report. This makes the report to seem something akin to a Facebook post.

Two egregious oversights are that the Leonard report took no account that the Exponent work made use of a "Master Gauge" that was used to normalize the measured pressures. (A global search of the Leonard report shows that the word "master" appears no where.) I suspect that is the reason for the erroneous claim on p. 133 of the Leonard report that Fig. 26  is "simply wrong" because it used the wrong pressures.

The second egregious omission in the Leonard report is that the game day simulations conducted in the Exponent work were no where discussed. (Again, a global search of the Leonard report for the word "simulation" shows the word does not appear.) The game day simulations were the most conclusive results demonstrating deflation exceeding that resulting from natural causes.

In short, not only is the Leonard report not "definitive," it is biased and its conclusions are invalid.

Finally, let me invite you to read the discussions of the game day simulations given in the technical appendix of the Weiss report. Those discussions appear on pp. 56-61 of the appendix (which are actually pp. 216-221 of the Weiss report). I promise there are no equations. But there are two graphs, Fig. 29 and Fig. 30. Those two graphs present quite convincing evidence that the Pat balls "more probably than not" (actually, much more probably than not, in my opinion) that the deflation of the Pat balls exceeded what could have occurred due to natural causes alone. And compare the phraseology of the Exponent writing with that in the Leonard report to see the difference between a scientific report and a report that is unscientific.

If anything on the pages I have recommended for you to read are unclear, I will be happy to try to answer any question you may have.
 

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AzogtheDefiler

AzogtheDefiler

Posted
Posted
7 minutes ago, Jet Fan RI said:

OK. I found out that I could skip the theatrical aspects of the Leonard report and was able to read some portions of the report. I found the report written in an incredibly biased and unscientific manner. It appears to me to have been written by someone with an agenda. Specifically, an agenda to exculpate Brady rather than to simply investigate the validity of the Exponent testing.

For example,the P. 112, section title:"The equation that was used to wrongly incriminate Tom Brady." The "incrimination" was primarily based on texts from ball guy's phones, witness testimony, and destruction of evidence. Also, I was amazed to see the inclusion of a copy of a tweet on p. 145 of the Leonard report, apparently included to play to reader biases against some of the information put out by press members. This sort of thing is entirely inappropriate in a scientific report. This makes the report to seem something akin to a Facebook post.

Two egregious oversights are that the Leonard report took no account that the Exponent work made use of a "Master Gauge" that was used to normalize the measured pressures. (A global search of the Leonard report shows that the word "master" appears no where.) I suspect that is the reason for the erroneous claim on p. 133 of the Leonard report that Fig. 26  is "simply wrong" because it used the wrong pressures.

The second egregious omission in the Leonard report is that the game day simulations conducted in the Exponent work was no where discussed. (Again, a global search of the Leonard report for the word "simulation" shows the word does not appear.) The game day simulations were the most conclusive results demonstrating deflation exceeding that resulting from natural causes.

In short, not only is the Leonard report not "definitive," it is biased and its conclusions are invalid.

Finally, let me invite you to read the discussions of the game day simulations given in the technical appendix of the Weiss report. Those discussions appear on pp. 56-61 of the appendix (which are actually pp. 216-221 of the Weiss report). I promise there are no equations. But there are two graphs, Fig. 29 and Fig. 30. Those two graphs present quite convincing evidence that the Pat balls "more probably than not" (actually, much more probably than not, in my opinion) that the deflation of the Pat balls exceeded what could have occurred due to natural causes alone. And compare the phraseology of the Exponent writing with that in the Leonard report to see the difference between a scientific report and a report that is unscientific.

If anything on the pages I have recommended for you to read are unclear, I will be happy to try to answer any question you may have.
 

But if deflating balls carries a $25k fine why was the penalty 4 games for the QB? If the coach and owner were found innocent in the same report why was the organization penalized two picks and $1 mil? I understand the crime but I don't understand the penalties. I just want transparency. 

 

Forget who likes or dislikes which team. I need to understand the logic behind the penalties just for my own sanity. 

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ghost_in_pads02

ghost_in_pads02

Posted
Posted
5 minutes ago, AzogtheDefiler said:

But if deflating balls carries a $25k fine why was the penalty 4 games for the QB? If the coach and owner were found innocent in the same report why was the organization penalized two picks and $1 mil? I understand the crime but I don't understand the penalties. I just want transparency. 

 

Forget who likes or dislikes which team. I need to understand the logic behind the penalties just for my own sanity. 

getting them back for spygate because apparently for the other 31 owners and fans outside of N.E. their penalty wasn't harsh enough. even though a lost of a draft pick and a million dollar fine seems pretty harsh...but what do I know, i do not dislike any sports team because they win so much!

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AzogtheDefiler

AzogtheDefiler

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, ghost_in_pads02 said:

getting them back for spygate because apparently for the other 31 owners and fans outside of N.E. their penalty wasn't harsh enough. even though a lost of a draft pick and a million dollar fine seems pretty harsh...but what do I know, i do not dislike any sports team because they win so much!

Thats fine but then Goodell should just say that!!!!! I hate all this cloak and dagger crap. 

 

If they can do this to NE and to NO and to KC they can do this to anyone.

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Jet Fan RI

Jet Fan RI

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, AzogtheDefiler said:

But if deflating balls carries a $25k fine why was the penalty 4 games for the QB? If the coach and owner were found innocent in the same report why was the organization penalized two picks and $1 mil? I understand the crime but I don't understand the penalties. I just want transparency. 

 

Forget who likes or dislikes which team. I need to understand the logic behind the penalties just for my own sanity. 

My post was only responding to AFCeast's statement that the Leonard report was a definitive refutation of the Exponent report. It is nothing of the sort.

I am reminded of the report titled something like "100 scientists against Einstein" that appeared at some point after his relativity theory appeared. Einstein said something like, "if I were really wrong, wouldn't one scientist be enough?" To me, the Leonard report appears to be something written by a New Englander, for New Englanders. And it is about as valuable as "100 scientists against Einstein."

Now, as to why the penalty was more severe than that specified in the rules, I can only give my opinion. For one thing, it was worse than mere ball deflation. There was also destruction of evidence and failure to cooperate with the investigation. The previous cheating by the team also probably had some impact.

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ghost_in_pads02

ghost_in_pads02

Posted
Posted
30 minutes ago, AzogtheDefiler said:

Thats fine but then Goodell should just say that!!!!! I hate all this cloak and dagger crap. 

 

If they can do this to NE and to NO and to KC they can do this to anyone.

And that's what the NFLPA is trying to say is the problem, BUT the players signed off on this and gave Goodell  the power to distribute it however and whenever he feels.

 

so it's the players fault...dont be so dumb (meaning the  players)

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Larz

Larz

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, AzogtheDefiler said:

But if deflating balls carries a $25k fine why was the penalty 4 games for the QB? If the coach and owner were found innocent in the same report why was the organization penalized two picks and $1 mil? I understand the crime but I don't understand the penalties. I just want transparency. 

 

Forget who likes or dislikes which team. I need to understand the logic behind the penalties just for my own sanity. 

the article I posted explains it all.  its payback for spygate

a lot of owners were pissed goodell destroyed the evidence, and nobody was suspended

the rams walkthrough stuff is bad.  the past* stole hardware bruh

a lot of people are still pissed off about that

 

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neckdemon

neckdemon

Posted
Posted
25 minutes ago, Larz said:

the article I posted explains it all.  its payback for spygate

a lot of owners were pissed goodell destroyed the evidence, and nobody was suspended

the rams walkthrough stuff is bad.  the past* stole hardware bruh

a lot of people are still pissed off about that

 

idk if i believe it so much payback for spygate but rather goodell spanking them for being caught cheating again after he covered for them the first time.

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PFSIKH

PFSIKH

Posted
Posted
21 hours ago, Larz said:

go back and read my post about the rams walkthrough.  the pats are a soft finesse team that has to cheat to win.  they can't just line up and beat you

it is what it is

pete-carroll.jpg

Pete agrees.  Dumb post.

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