Jet Fans Need To Stop ...

[peekskill68]

23 minutes ago, Big Blocker said:

Enunwa is far from a proven factor.  If Amaro cannot beat him out, then clearly the CS is not high on Amaro.

His rookie season gives his skeptics plenty of reason to be concerned.

Agree. But his performance was starting to higher which makes me think it will harder for Amaro to beat him out

[rillo]

I forgot about him 

[Bleedin Green]

1 hour ago, Sperm Edwards said:

IMO everyone who isn't on the OL can block. It's a mental state. A player decides how willing he is to block, and how hard he's going to work on doing a good job of it. TEs who are terrible blockers are either just lazy (in that regard), or they just see that job as being beneath them IMO. I'm sure Graham could be a better blocker than he is (considering he is a poor blocker). I don't think it's important to him, especially when his bigger concern/cause is being seen as more of a WR than TE anyway. But there's no reason a man his size - or Amaro's - arguably blocks worse than Bilal Powell, who he outweighs by some 60 lbs, let alone Enunwa who he still outweighs by 40 lbs.

It's why lots of us have a soft spot for non-OLmen who are good+willing blockers (Enunwa, Powell, Braylon, etc.). There's the insinuation - probably a correct one - that it's a matter of how much effort they're willing to give. Why should Powell be a noticeably superior blocker to Chris Ivory? Answer is he shouldn't.

Amaro may never be as good a blocker as Becht (let alone Brady, who was just a massive goon anyway), but he can - and should - be a lot better than he's been.

I definitely agree with this about the blocking. The one advantage Enunwa has over Amaro has been their past blocking, however this is something Amaro should be able to improve on and, especially after last year, have plenty of motivation to do so.  As you said, he has physical advantages in that area, so there is no excuse there.  The only exception to this rule is if the issue isn't about physical ability, but mental awareness (i.e., picking up the wrong defender), although that obviously isn't something to be happy with either.

As long as Amaro commits himself to improving, he should be able to address the concern and win that position.  If he isn't able to do that much through this offseason/camp/preseason, then it likely says more about his willingness, which will tell the team plenty.

[batman10023]

2 hours ago, Snell41 said:

Gailey wants  guy who can block to be the slot/H-back.  Amaro can't block worth squat.  He also has incredibly small hands causing a lot of drops, and honestly he doesn't run very tough.  He was in the doghouse pretty much from day 1, listed on depth charts behind truck drivers.  His injury was not one to cause a full season IR type of move IMO for a TE.  My opinion is McCags didn't have him rated very highly on HOU's board, and the coaching staff didn't think much of him when they saw him in training camp.  Personally I have zero expectation of the guy.  If he gets cut so be it. 

He also has incredibly small hands causing a lot of drops....

 

it also helps you become president i heard.

[Mainejet]

2 hours ago, Warfish said:

I don't think we're drafting a TE.  I think Amaro is comfortably the "pass catching" starter right now.

Beyond that, Amaro has alot to prove now.

Completely disagree. Once again the thinking that Chan Gailey's offense doesn't require/use a TE is nonsense. He didn't use the TE spot last season only because HE DIDN'T HAVE ONE. And you CANNOT win a SB without one. So you think the Jets can win the SB with essentially a run and shoot offense???? Isn't that the same offense that Buddy Ryan called the chuck and duck? Didn't he try to punch out Kevin Gilbride on the sideline because of it? Haven't those offenses been long forgotten since like the early 90's? 

[Warfish]

11 minutes ago, Mainejet said:

Completely disagree.

Ok.

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Once again the thinking that Chan Gailey's offense doesn't require/use a TE is nonsense.

Ok.

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He didn't use the TE spot last season only because HE DIDN'T HAVE ONE.

Ok.

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And you CANNOT win a SB without one.

If you say so.

Quote

So you think the Jets can win the SB with essentially a run and shoot offense????

I don't think we're winning the Super Bowl in 2016 either way..

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Isn't that the same offense that Buddy Ryan called the chuck and duck?

I don't know.  Is it?

Quote

Didn't he try to punch out Kevin Gilbride on the sideline because of it? Haven't those offenses been long forgotten since like the early 90's? 

So who are we drafting at TE and when?

[NYs Stepchild]

1 hour ago, DoubleDown said:

Amaro is talented, and I hope he gets a shot to prove himself this year.  It seems like once you are in the dog house with this coaching staff, it's very tough to get out.  Just ask Jeremy Kerley.

Amaro had his fair share of drops during his rookie season, but he was also routinely gaining separation and running free in the secondary.  Geno simply couldn't hit him more often than not.

Tight end is historically a very tough position to excel in as a rookie in the NFL.  I thought Amaro looked very promising all things considered.

Yes Amaro had some drops, but even with the drops his catch rate was very high so he gets to balls that others cannot. Geno throwing to him makes it more impressive. Also his catch per route run was even higher so he's getting open. He didn't have any trouble with drops in college, and I don't think they use a different ball so I would think he could get that under control. 

Btw while Bowles said he was third string Y, he was 1st string F. Hopefully he has been working on blocking, and inline blocking concepts because he has way more potential than Enunwa in this category. He makes Q look small. Let's hope last year was a wake up call.

Between Miliner, Amaro, and D Smith, I'm hoping 1 of them fulfills his potential, and one becomes at least a contributor. 

[Irish Jet]

I don't think Enunwa's overrated on here at all. He's seriously f*cking talented and is looking like a pretty asset for a 6th round pick. He's obviously loved by coaching staff too and I think they back themselves to get the best out of him. There's signs of improvement - His blocking is exceptional, he gets himself open a lot and he's a threat with the ball in his hands. He just needs to catch the damn ball. 

As for Amaro I'm definitely willing to give him a chance. He seemed a bit full of himself entering his rookie season so let's hope he's humbled by this and determined to get his career on track. 

We have a lot of highly drafted guys who've been struck by injuries and consistency in the last two years - Milliner, Amaro, Smith. If they all stayed healthy and started playing to the level they were projected to be at this team would transform. These guys aren't busts just yet although Milliner is fast entering that territory. 

We'll see how much faith we have in these guys with who we draft. 

[joewilly12]

Who?

[Smashmouth]

4 hours ago, Bleedin Green said:

Amaro certainly still needs to prove himself, and I don't think the Jets can assume he'll be any sort of significant factor this year and allow it to influence any other decisions they make, but I agree it's also too soon to completely write him off.

The truth is that the position he plays would be the one that was played last year by Enunwa and frankly, there's legitimate reason to believe that Amaro could outperform Enunwa in that position.  Consider that, despite the surprising amount of praise Enunwa received last year, he contributed less while doing just as poorly in the drops department in his second year, as Amaro did in his rookie year.

he will if anything be another huge target in the endzone

[Smashmouth]

3 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

IMO everyone who isn't on the OL can block. It's a mental state. A player decides how willing he is to block, and how hard he's going to work on doing a good job of it. TEs who are terrible blockers are either just lazy (in that regard), or they just see that job as being beneath them IMO. I'm sure Graham could be a better blocker than he is (considering he is a poor blocker). I don't think it's important to him, especially when his bigger concern/cause is being seen as more of a WR than TE anyway. But there's no reason a man his size - or Amaro's - arguably blocks worse than Bilal Powell, who he outweighs by some 60 lbs, let alone Enunwa who he still outweighs by 40 lbs.

It's why lots of us have a soft spot for non-OLmen who are good+willing blockers (Enunwa, Powell, Braylon, etc.). There's the insinuation - probably a correct one - that it's a matter of how much effort they're willing to give. Why should Powell be a noticeably superior blocker to Chris Ivory? Answer is he shouldn't.

Amaro may never be as good a blocker as Becht (let alone Brady, who was just a massive goon anyway), but he can - and should - be a lot better than he's been.

Its more than just blocking when you play the RB position. A pass rusher could be coming from anywhere and vision/awareness play a big part. If Powell has proven anything its his great vision. When the guy showed some real burst at the end of last year he was a monster in our offense. He's just a smart football player and that certainly contributes to great blocking from his position./ TE's usually have an assignment its MUCH easier for them to block while RB's have to pick guys up from any one of three different points on the field, up the middle or from right or left tackle. The question becomes exactly what you said when it comes to TE's its whether they want to excel and learn better technique or just half ass it. Its why I hated it when the Jets lost a solid role player like Hartsock for cheap money. He was a big part of our running game and he was a mean SOB sometimes it pays to throw a bit more money at those role players no one seems to notice yet play a big part in a teams success.

Now we have Powell and Forte both can block extremely well and its no coincidence they both have great vision.

[KRL]

This thread came from listening to Benigno & Roberts on WFAN this afternoon.  They were talking

about the draft with Daniel Jeremiah and they were just so dismissive of Amaro like he played last

year and didn't produce.  Too many "diehard fans" are absolutely clueless when discussing their

teams

[Pcola]

If memory serves me correctly, early last year Bowles said Amaro didn't have an NFL body.  I would translate that to Jace needed to get his ass in the gym.  He was able to get by with his athleticism in the gimmicking offense he played in college but at the NFL level his body can't withstand the punishment and he gets injured to easily.

but I don't know for certain.

[New York Mick]

Huge disappointment so far. I thought he was going to be a receiving beast. 

[Sperm Edwards]

4 hours ago, Smashmouth said:

Its more than just blocking when you play the RB position. A pass rusher could be coming from anywhere and vision/awareness play a big part. If Powell has proven anything its his great vision. When the guy showed some real burst at the end of last year he was a monster in our offense. He's just a smart football player and that certainly contributes to great blocking from his position./ TE's usually have an assignment its MUCH easier for them to block while RB's have to pick guys up from any one of three different points on the field, up the middle or from right or left tackle. The question becomes exactly what you said when it comes to TE's its whether they want to excel and learn better technique or just half ass it. Its why I hated it when the Jets lost a solid role player like Hartsock for cheap money. He was a big part of our running game and he was a mean SOB sometimes it pays to throw a bit more money at those role players no one seems to notice yet play a big part in a teams success.

Now we have Powell and Forte both can block extremely well and its no coincidence they both have great vision.

You like them? Oh. Then they suck. 

[Larz]

I hated amaro before it was cool

[Smashmouth]

7 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

You like them? Oh. Then they suck. 

You don't like them ? Oh. Then they must be great

[Villain The Foe]

11 minutes ago, Larz said:

I hated amaro before it was cool

lol

[Mainejet]

7 hours ago, Warfish said:

Ok.

Ok.

Ok.

If you say so.

I don't think we're winning the Super Bowl in 2016 either way..

I don't know.  Is it?

So who are we drafting at TE and when?

First of all, I may have come on a little strong with this response I realized after the fact. So apologies if I offended you it wasn't my intention.

First I need a clarification question answered on your part. You say (and I agree) that we are not winning the SB in 2016 anyway in response to my asking if you think the Jets can win the SB with a run and shoot offense. Do you or don't you think they will EVER utilize the TE spot or will it just be one of those nonsense afterthoughts that do not matter?

And like I mentioned the first time we debated this, I don't know if MAC  will select a TE in the draft. First of all, the talent base at TE in this draft isn't great I am hearing and Mac may just not like anyone in the draft. He may decide to push that need off until next years draft are grab another stopgap guy through FA. I really don't know. But what I believe very firmly is that there's no way they're going to win the SB without a TE, and not just some Jeff Cumberland guy that they rarely if ever go to. It will be a real live decent blocking and pass catching TE that gets his number called regularly.

[Warfish]

16 minutes ago, Mainejet said:

First of all, I may have come on a little strong with this response I realized after the fact. So apologies if I offended you it wasn't my intention.

First I need a clarification question answered on your part. You say (and I agree) that we are not winning the SB in 2016 anyway in response to my asking if you think the Jets can win the SB with a run and shoot offense. Do you or don't you think they will EVER utilize the TE spot or will it just be one of those nonsense afterthoughts that do not matter?

And like I mentioned the first time we debated this, I don't know if MAC  will select a TE in the draft. First of all, the talent base at TE in this draft isn't great I am hearing and Mac may just not like anyone in the draft. He may decide to push that need off until next years draft are grab another stopgap guy through FA. I really don't know. But what I believe very firmly is that there's no way they're going to win the SB without a TE, and not just some Jeff Cumberland guy that they rarely if ever go to. It will be a real live decent blocking and pass catching TE that gets his number called regularly.

I think I've been clear, Chan G. does not utilize a pass-catching TE heavily in his offense.  He treats TE's as additional O-Linemen, historically.  I do not see this changing materially, no.

"Can they win" doing that is unanswerable, because winning is the result of more than the scheme of a single position.  Yes, I believe the Jets can win games without throwing 10 balls a game to a TE and making the poor slob block instead.  Offense is about weapons, mismatches and schemes, and other weapons (RB's for example, or big tall WR's) can provide the exact same service a pass-catching TE can without being a TE.  A Super Bowl appearance does not require, in my view, a great TE.  

And no, I'd be flabbergasted if we drafted a TE this week, and yes, I think we're perfectly happy to see Amaro play as the "pass guy" at TE in 2016.

Personally, I think this belief is based on the Pats and wishing we were the Pats.  We're not, nor are the TE's why the Pats win/won.  But they exemplify the foolishness of a "can we win without a TE" question, as New England has won without decent RB's and won without particularly great WR's as well.  Weapons (overall), scheme and matchups.  Not position titles.

[Mainejet]

1 hour ago, Warfish said:

I think I've been clear, Chan G. does not utilize a pass-catching TE heavily in his offense.  He treats TE's as additional O-Linemen, historically.  I do not see this changing materially, no.

"Can they win" doing that is unanswerable, because winning is the result of more than the scheme of a single position.  Yes, I believe the Jets can win games without throwing 10 balls a game to a TE and making the poor slob block instead.  Offense is about weapons, mismatches and schemes, and other weapons (RB's for example, or big tall WR's) can provide the exact same service a pass-catching TE can without being a TE.  A Super Bowl appearance does not require, in my view, a great TE.  

And no, I'd be flabbergasted if we drafted a TE this week, and yes, I think we're perfectly happy to see Amaro play as the "pass guy" at TE in 2016.

Personally, I think this belief is based on the Pats and wishing we were the Pats.  We're not, nor are the TE's why the Pats win/won.  But they exemplify the foolishness of a "can we win without a TE" question, as New England has won without decent RB's and won without particularly great WR's as well.  Weapons (overall), scheme and matchups.  Not position titles.

It has absolutely nothing to do with the Patsies. But it has everything to do with what you just posted - WEAPONS. I don't care how many WR's you want to spread out on the field and however many RB's you'd like to put out there simultaneously, there comes a time when a TE is the QB's best friend. He becomes their safety valve and all of the great offenses and QB's of the past have always had that guy. Without looking, if ever a team wins the SB that completely ignores the TE spot the way the Jets did last season, it will be the FIRST time. I don't believe it has ever happened in the past and I don't believe it will ever happen in the future. The TE position is a critical position for any offense that has designs on winning the SB and I certainly believe that is what the Jets are trying to do.

[pdxgreen]

Jets fans didn't like the pick to begin with. And the 2014 draft didn't make things any easier. I just think he needs some time to prove himself.

[The Troll]

I dig Amaro. I look forward to seeing what he can do in Gailey's offense.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Jet Nut]

15 hours ago, Snell41 said:

Gailey wants  guy who can block to be the slot/H-back.  Amaro can't block worth squat.  He also has incredibly small hands causing a lot of drops, and honestly he doesn't run very tough.  He was in the doghouse pretty much from day 1, listed on depth charts behind truck drivers.  His injury was not one to cause a full season IR type of move IMO for a TE.  My opinion is McCags didn't have him rated very highly on HOU's board, and the coaching staff didn't think much of him when they saw him in training camp.  Personally I have zero expectation of the guy.  If he gets cut so be it. 

Incredibly small hands? 

Lol, you have to be kidding. 

[roscoeword]

Amaro could be the next Pete Lammons.

[Shadetree]

17 hours ago, KRL said:

All of this Jace Amaro bashing!!!  Do people even realize he DIDN'T PLAY
ONE GAME LAST YEAR???  He got hurt in training camp and never made it to
the pre-season schedule.  He's played one year under a HC who had no plan
for his offense and a OC who would run two QB double reverses from the 
one yard line.  Can we see him play at least one game under an OC who
knows what he's doing before we say he's a bust???  He did catch over
100 balls in a spread offense in college, don't you think Gailey can
use that kind of talent in combination with Marshall & Decker???

Jace Amaro, hands like feet.

Hes on thin ice, so it's sh*t or get off the pot for Jace.

[jack48]

18 hours ago, Snell41 said:

True, but Enunwa can block.  Amaro can't, and I think that's what put him in the doghouse.  My personal opinion is Amaro just isn't football tough. 

That may be true but Enunwa exhibited a worse set of hands than Jace did.

[Warfish]

9 hours ago, Mainejet said:

It has absolutely nothing to do with the Patsies. But it has everything to do with what you just posted - WEAPONS. I don't care how many WR's you want to spread out on the field and however many RB's you'd like to put out there simultaneously, there comes a time when a TE is the QB's best friend.

There is nothing a pass-catching TE provides that a pass-catching RB cannot also provide, often better.  

Quote

He becomes their safety valve and all of the great offenses and QB's of the past have always had that guy.

If you say so.  I myself do not care enough to peruse 60 years of ProFootballReference.com records to prove of disprove this theory.  And I doubt you did so either.

Quote

Without looking, if ever a team wins the SB that completely ignores the TE spot the way the Jets did last season, it will be the FIRST time.

Again, if you say so.  I myself do not feel your sense of certainty.

Quote

I don't believe it has ever happened in the past and I don't believe it will ever happen in the future. The TE position is a critical position for any offense that has designs on winning the SB and I certainly believe that is what the Jets are trying to do.

Quickly looking at just the past few non-Pats Super Bowls, I see TE's with 30-40 catches for 400-600 or so yards.  The Packers won a Super Bowl with a TE with 20 catches for 300 yards.  Tampa Bay won a Super Bowl with a guy named Digler, with 30 odd catches for 300 yards.

I am confident that Amaro can easily produce those numbers.  If thrown to.  I am confident he could have put those numbers up last year, had he not been hurt.  I am also confident that Enunwa (a TE is every way, despite his WR tag) can assist there as well.

But if you think TE needs more attention and priority draft status, your concern is with Gailey, not Amaro.  Because Gaily does not utilize a pass catching TE heavily.

Feel free to start a "Fire Chan Because He Doesn't Use the TE Right and Because Of That We'll Never Win a Super Bowl" thread.  Will be good times.