Jets Get Into 5th Round ...

[jamesr]

8 minutes ago, Irish Jet said:

Why are we so bad at getting these things?

Because we have such a depleted roster from years of bad drafting that we still need to bring in more talent than we lose.  

[Gangrene]

28 minutes ago, Augustiniak said:

so you object to trading for marshall.  you're alone on that one.

If I said specifically, that please point it out - I said trading away picks is a pattern.

There is no short cut for building through the draft. It's a crap shoot but more picks, higher picks have a better percentage ... that part is not rocket science.

Maccagnan is an ex-scout. My fear is that he believes too much in his abilities to find gems. Hackenberg of the Interceptions  makes little sense for a team that has some aging stars when injured have left this team looking very poor. 

 

[BowlesMovement]

I sure miss those Idzik days.... When we would make 9 draft picks and they all sucked, the good old days, pre our sh*tty GM

[jamesr]

3 minutes ago, PepPep said:

I completely understand that Revis is no spring chicken and the Jets have a lot of question marks at CB. But when you look at the depth, it doesn't make sense to cut anybody, not for a 4th rd. rookie. Revis is Revis, you're not trading or cutting him. M. Williams is coming off a great season and deserves a shot to start opposite Revis. Skrine was recently signed to a large contract with the notion that he would continue to improve. The Jets are not cutting or trading him. The Jets have an option on Milliner next season, he is finally healthy and this is a put up or shut up year for him, the Jets are not going to cut or trade him, it simply doesn't make sense. Furthermore, for a 6th overall pick, he have little to no trade value due to his history of injuries. McDougle was only recently drafted, he has some nice upside and never got a chance to show it due to injury last season. The Jets are not going to give up on him before he even gets a chance get on the field for extended reps. Then there is D.Morris. He is a speedster that Mac knows from Houston, he was signed specifically to bring depth and play special teams, which he excels at. Why would the Jets sign him to address the dire need on special teams coverage and then cut him? 

Like I said, they can carry 7 CBs into the season like last year. But my point was that Burris will be a 4th round pick buried 7th on the depth chart. That may be fine, CBs need time to develop. I just don't really get why the Jets go for him in the 4th. It would make more sense to me to stick with the CBs we have, maybe sign someone after cuts are made or as an UDFA to keep on practice squad or deep on the bench and develop. Next year, we will know what to do with Milliner, whether M.Williams is a legit starter, and what McDougles role may be. Depending on how things play out, next year CB may be a position we look at relatively early in the draft.

Lots of guys that get signed end up getting cut - that's the way it works. If you go into camp with only the 6 guys who you have space for, there's no competition, no cover in case of injury, no "best man wins the job". Just because Morris fits a ST need doesn't guarantee him a roster spot, any more than anyone else.

Last year Mac brought in a guy from Houston in a trade, DeVier Posey. He never made it through camp, because someone better got that roster spot.

[Greenseed4]

So lets complain about not drafting OL in the 4th round.  THEN complain that we didn't do enough to acquire more draft picks.  

THEN COMPLAIN ABOUT DRAFTING AN OL WITH A 4TH ROUND PICK. 

sojf 

[TuscanyTile2]

5 minutes ago, Gangrene said:

If I said specifically, that please point it out - I said trading away picks is a pattern.

There is no short cut for building through the draft. It's a crap shoot but more picks, higher picks have a better percentage ... that part is not rocket science.

Maccagnan is an ex-scout. My fear is that he believes too much in his abilities to find gems. Hackenberg of the Interceptions  makes little sense for a team that has some aging stars when injured have left this team looking very poor. 

 

We hired Macc for his scouting skills (I assume).  I want him to trust his instincts.  If he's a bad GM it won't be the first time for us.  I'd rather he be bold though and at least try.

[jack48]

1 hour ago, UntouchableCrew said:

So he's short term depth and hopefully Breno's replacement at RT. Not bad -- I wish we didn't give up a 4th to get him though.

I would be happy to give up a 4th to replace our RT.

[sirlancemehlot]

1 hour ago, Rangers9 said:

A future 4th round pick usually has a present 5th round pick value. And maybe the Jets had him evaluated higher. 

Hmmm.  We got Brandon Marshall for a fifth.  Yech. 

[HessStation]

1 hour ago, 32EBoozer said:

2/$20 is not caving in to Fitz demands. 

Getting Mo signed and not playing under $15m tag helps the team, and could help trading Mo next yr. if it is reasonable to both sides.

You're talking to the wrong dude if you think I'm part of the SOJF model.

I support Mac with his picks, but there is no getting around the fact he misplayed his hand on a few fronts.

Go back to 1 Jets Drive, get on the phone and get these things resolved. I don't want this $h!+ dragging into camp

Holy **** good god man 2/20 is totally caving for that jag nerd back up.

[thshadow]

We traded a 4th next year for a 5th this year.  (Which is the standard value on the value chart.)  And we traded our 5th this year for Clady.

So if it makes anyone feel better, you can imagine we traded our 4th next year for Clady.  And took Brandon Shell with our "existing" 5th.

 

[TuscanyTile2]

Strengths: last name

[Rangers9]

18 minutes ago, sirlancemehlot said:

Hmmm.  We got Brandon Marshall for a fifth.  Yech. 

You have to understand. The Bears desperately wanted to get rid of Marshall. They were happy to get anything. 

[32EBoozer]

1 hour ago, HessStation said:

Holy **** good god man 2/20 is totally caving for that jag nerd back up.

He was the starter on our 10-6 team and was a leader in the locker room and his teammates love him.

You D!(K over a vet like that along with Mo & Brick, morale starts to dwindle.

Being a good GM is more than scouting and $ crunching.

The good GM's understand this.... and I hope MacDaddy grows into one of them

[HessStation]

1 minute ago, 32EBoozer said:

He was the starter on our 10-6 team and was a leader in the locker room and his teammates love him.

You D!(K over a vet like that along with Mo & Brick, morale starts to dwindle.

Being a good GM is more than scouting and $ crunching.

The good GM's understand this.... and I hope MacDaddy grows into one of them

No way Fitzpatrick ever has another season as good as last year. The stars aligned for a jag QB with pro bowl talent and a top 3 D surrounding him.  I agree he'd be better than anyone on the roster to start the season with. But he's nowhere close to deserving the money he wants. F him.

[32EBoozer]

10 minutes ago, HessStation said:

No way Fitzpatrick ever has another season as good as last year. The stars aligned for a jag QB with pro bowl talent and a top 3 D surrounding him.  I agree he'd be better than anyone on the roster to start the season with. But he's nowhere close to deserving the money he wants. F him.

Obviously your hatred for Fitz has impacted your reasoning. It's all good.

[BroadwayRay]

2 hours ago, Gangrene said:

If I said specifically, that please point it out - I said trading away picks is a pattern.

There is no short cut for building through the draft. It's a crap shoot but more picks, higher picks have a better percentage ... that part is not rocket science.

Maccagnan is an ex-scout. My fear is that he believes too much in his abilities to find gems. Hackenberg of the Interceptions  makes little sense for a team that has some aging stars when injured have left this team looking very poor. 

 

He's used late round picks to fill gaping holes in the lineup, which is what good GMs do. For example, trading a pick for Clady after Brick retired had to be done. I don't see how anyone can argue with that move.

Fitzpatrick and Marshall were also good value trades to fill areas of weakness, with spectacular results.

I do wish he would trade down for picks sometimes. I don't think he's done it at all yet. But if he were impressed with his own scouting skills, as you think, I would expect he would be in the habit of trading up in the draft for players he's got his sights set on--like Mr. T used to do all the time and still does, apparently, if you check out the foolish trade he made in the 2nd round that cost the Dolphins a 4th round pick. Macaggnan hasn't done that, although I guess you could argue the trade for Shell was kind of, sort of a trade up.

 

[HessStation]

7 minutes ago, 32EBoozer said:

Obviously your hatred for Fitz has impacted your reasoning. It's all good.

I'll always like Fitzpatrick and appreciate what he did in 2015. It's not hatred at all. i like to think its objectivity.

[Ohio State NY Jets fan]

4 hours ago, kelly said:

i think the 'skins   

 

3 hours ago, Ex-Rex said:

Washington.

Thank you, guess they really had to make this trade, OT's did not fall to the Jets this year

McCloughan had a good weekend

[Larz]

3 hours ago, Augustiniak said:

it's not messed up if they had a 4th round grade on him.

Rich Cimini ESPN Staff Writer 

Jets GM Mike Maccagnan, explaining why he traded a 2017 fourth-round pick to take OT Brandon Shell in the fifth, said he was willing to part with the pick because he expects compensatory picks in '17. That softens the blow. He said they liked Shell so much they almost picked him in the fourth. "We thought the player has a lot of ability and potential," he said.

[greenwave81]

4 hours ago, Mainejet said:

Well, I'll take it, but I doubt this guy can start this season and I thought the point was to cut Giacomini so they could free up some cap space?

So...why do you know that he can't step in and start at this point, especially since everyone says Breno sucks?

It ain't the NFL, but a 3 yr OT starter in the SEC may be plenty capable of performing at Breno's level already with the potential to improve.

[greenwave81]

1 hour ago, BroadwayRay said:

He's used late round picks to fill gaping holes in the lineup, which is what good GMs do. For example, trading a pick for Clady after Brick retired had to be done. I don't see how anyone can argue with that move.

Fitzpatrick and Marshall were also good value trades to fill areas of weakness, with spectacular results.

I do wish he would trade down for picks sometimes. I don't think he's done it at all yet. But if he were impressed with his own scouting skills, as you think, I would expect he would be in the habit of trading up in the draft for players he's got his sights set on--like Mr. T used to do all the time and still does, apparently, if you check out the foolish trade he made in the 2nd round that cost the Dolphins a 4th round pick. Macaggnan hasn't done that, although I guess you could argue the trade for Shell was kind of, sort of a trade up.

 

I always take the lack of trading down with a grain of salt; I mean, do we know if he even had the opportunity to do so yet?  To trade down, you have to have someone wanting to trade up specifically to your spot.

[Obrien2Toon]

2 hours ago, Ohio State NY Jets fan said:

 

Thank you, guess they really had to make this trade, OT's did not fall to the Jets this year

McCloughan had a good weekend

McCloughan is a football genius. A tortured genius

[cant wait]

3 hours ago, 32EBoozer said:

He was the starter on our 10-6 team and was a leader in the locker room and his teammates love him.

You D!(K over a vet like that along with Mo & Brick, morale starts to dwindle.

Being a good GM is more than scouting and $ crunching.

The good GM's understand this.... and I hope MacDaddy grows into one of them

The jets are the only team that's offering Fitzpatrick a contract, that's not dicking him over. The fact that he'd rather retire than play for less than $18M a year is his problem, not the jets. They even told him to go test the market and nobody even reported making an offer. And making statements threatening retirement before the draft doesn't help anything 

[Jetmech]

If I said specifically, that please point it out - I said trading away picks is a pattern.

There is no short cut for building through the draft. It's a crap shoot but more picks, higher picks have a better percentage ... that part is not rocket science.

Maccagnan is an ex-scout. My fear is that he believes too much in his abilities to find gems. Hackenberg of the Interceptions  makes little sense for a team that has some aging stars when injured have left this team looking very poor. 

 

More picks like John Idzick had in a draft loaded with WR's and came away with nothing?

The problem with the Jets is they've been unlucky in not being in the top 3 when a franchise QB was there.

[The Troll]

He was the starter on our 10-6 team and was a leader in the locker room and his teammates love him.

You D!(K over a vet like that along with Mo & Brick, morale starts to dwindle.

Being a good GM is more than scouting and $ crunching.

The good GM's understand this.... and I hope MacDaddy grows into one of them

His tact is reminiscent of one Eric Mangini.

[Sperm Edwards]

13 hours ago, 32EBoozer said:

2/$20 is not caving in to Fitz demands. 

Getting Mo signed and not playing under $15m tag helps the team, and could help trading Mo next yr. if it is reasonable to both sides.

You're talking to the wrong dude if you think I'm part of the SOJF model.

I support Mac with his picks, but there is no getting around the fact he misplayed his hand on a few fronts.

Go back to 1 Jets Drive, get on the phone and get these things resolved. I don't want this $h!+ dragging into camp

Yes it is, because they don't want to pay it. 1/$9M is not caving. 2/$15M is not caving. 2/$20M is caving. I don't consider caving to be giving him 2/$32-36M because that's so laughable it's not even being considered. Not even with Geno atop the depth chart. 

I don't know how we could (would) sign Mo long term only to trade him a year later. Kills me to agree with Gato, but if we do re-sign Mo long term then we trade Sheldon (and we won't get much for him either). Or I guess we could play 4 across, but Bowles is going to have to take one of his beloved veterans (Harris) off the field on passing downs and play his rookie LB full time right off the bat. And then I don't know how Jenkins fits in, right after drafting him. Granted I'm just going by his 40 time, but it seems he's not going to cover enough ground to be 1 of only 3 LBers if the "extra" man is on the line rather than a 5th DB.

[32EBoozer]

4 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Yes it is, because they don't want to pay it. 1/$9M is not caving. 2/$15M is not caving. 2/$20M is caving. I don't consider caving to be giving him 2/$32-36M because that's so laughable it's not even being considered. Not even with Geno atop the depth chart. 

I don't know how we could (would) sign Mo long term only to trade him a year later. Kills me to agree with Gato, but if we do re-sign Mo long term then we trade Sheldon (and we won't get much for him either). Or I guess we could play 4 across, but Bowles is going to have to take one of his beloved veterans (Harris) off the field on passing downs and play his rookie LB full time right off the bat. And then I don't know how Jenkins fits in, right after drafting him. Granted I'm just going by his 40 time, but it seems he's not going to cover enough ground to be 1 of only 3 LBers if the "extra" man is on the line rather than a 5th DB.

1st off.... did you *edit " 1/$10 is not caving" to "1/$9m is not caving"?

Secondly, Can Mac really get in a pissing contest over a "Throw-in" 2nd yr. that helps spread out his SB on a 2nd yr. Fitz will never see?

You're that comfortable with Geno, Petty, Hack behind Mangold who has a "man crush" on Fitz?

Unless Mac is willing to make the decision to throw this season away with Geno.... he'll work something out with Fitz and let Petty/Hack sit.

[Sperm Edwards]

@32EBoozer

Agree with you Maccagnan badly overplayed his hand with Mo, just like Fitzpatrick overplayed his hand with Maccagnan (and every other GM in the league). Who knows if there's any truth to it, but a year ago wasn't it rumored that we were offered a 1st (or maybe it was a 1st this year) for Mo? I remember something like that but he was putting out an asking price of two 1's (presumably he would have taken less). But no one came knocking. Then this year he leaks out he wants at least a #1 pick this year for Mo. And again, no one bit. He presumably tried to trade up to #1, and then #2, using Mo as 1st round trade value (or more), and we got nothing. It seems Maccagnan has let public opinion - and journalist opinion - dictate what he considered too little to accept. That's fine if you're otherwise keeping him yourself. If you're not, then get what you can while you can.

This makes Idzik's Revis/Tampa trade look that much more impressive in hindsight, though I was rightly impressed with getting a #1 and a compensatory #4 at the time. We had so little leverage and there was only 1 serious interested party. Fact is we got lucky, and Maccagnan has had no such luck (including trying to move him for a #1 and more, when there's a draft full of good DE/DT bodies. Good ones. They'd rather use the pick on a prospect and use $100M towards other players/positions).

Who knows. Maybe after seeing nobody ante up Mo is tired of waiting for his big deal and takes less now instead of risking so much more than he's making even under the tag. Possible that breaking his leg was a wake-up call in that regard, he realizes that he's been dodging bullets for the past 2 seasons, and doesn't want to try for 3 in a row. We can afford him; that's not the issue. It just seems like a waste when we took 2 players at his position #13 and #6 in the country after he was already here (and that doesn't even count Coples, because he was a relative bust, though it should count).

[Sperm Edwards]

Just now, 32EBoozer said:

1st off.... did you *edit " 1/$10 is not caving" to "1/$9m is not caving"?

Secondly, Can Mac really get in a pissing contest over a "Throw-in" 2nd yr. that helps spread out his SB on a 2nd yr. Fitz will never see?

You're that comfortable with Geno, Petty, Hack behind Mangold who has a "man crush" on Fitz?

Unless Mac is willing to make the decision to throw this season away with Geno.... he'll work something out with Fitz and let Petty/Hack sit.

1st off: Yes, but 1/$10 isn't really caving much either. Changed it to the latter because I remembered that $9M is what's rumored to be on the table.

Secondly: Yes he can, and yes he should. Because Fitzpatrick isn't looking for 2 years where the 2nd year is a "throw-in" fluff year team option. That's not a 2 year contract for someone like him and I'll give him enough brains for knowing it. I'm sure they were way past that stage 5 minutes into negotiations. Or do you think Maccagnan is that much of a boob he never thought of giving him a multi-year deal that renders him cuttable after only 1 year (like Cromartie)? Fitz isn't signing that.

What I'm "comfortable" with is relative. I'm not comfortable with flushing $20M down the toilet on Fitzpatrick either. Mangold can have a Mancrush on Fitz all he wants; you don't let the players dictate how much $ their teammates get. Particularly those who are dead-end QBs who will still lead the team nowhere. Mangold may only be here for 1 more season himself. This isn't a treehouse where he gets to invite all his friends. 

Besides, that is a 2-way street. We are the only team known to have made him any offer at all. So Fitzpatrick has turned the Jets down, not the other way around. So Mangold can jerk off to that from under his sheets.

[32EBoozer]

16 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

1st off: Yes, but 1/$10 isn't really caving much either. Changed it to the latter because I remembered that $9M is what's rumored to be on the table.

Secondly: Yes he can, and yes he should. Because Fitzpatrick isn't looking for 2 years where the 2nd year is a "throw-in" fluff year team option. That's not a 2 year contract for someone like him and I'll give him enough brains for knowing it. I'm sure they were way past that stage 5 minutes into negotiations. Or do you think Maccagnan is that much of a boob he never thought of giving him a multi-year deal that renders him cuttable after only 1 year (like Cromartie)? Fitz isn't signing that.

What I'm "comfortable" with is relative. I'm not comfortable with flushing $20M down the toilet on Fitzpatrick either. Mangold can have a Mancrush on Fitz all he wants; you don't let the players dictate how much $ their teammates get. Particularly those who are dead-end QBs who will still lead the team nowhere. Mangold may only be here for 1 more season himself. This isn't a treehouse where he gets to invite all his friends. 

Besides, that is a 2-way street. We are the only team known to have made him any offer at all. So Fitzpatrick has turned the Jets down, not the other way around. So Mangold can jerk off to that from under his sheets.

Glad to see Mangold is no different than the majority of this board.

Re: the rest of your post.... while I understand and hope that we get Fitz signed to a contract you put out there, I think that in every contract negotiation 

among 2 sides that basically need each other, compromise is needed.

Fitz realized he's the Jets best option so he sets a high bar to negotiate down, while Mac sets a low bar knowing he'll negotiate up.

It appears Mo will have to be handled 1st unless Breno is cut to get Fitz under contract. Don't know where the money will come from for the rookies,

unless Fitz is the sacrificial lamb.

[Sperm Edwards]

9 minutes ago, 32EBoozer said:

Glad to see Mangold is no different than the majority of this board.

Re: the rest of your post.... while I understand and hope that we get Fitz signed to a contract you put out there, I think that in every contract negotiation 

among 2 sides that basically need each other, compromise is needed.

Fitz realized he's the Jets best option so he sets a high bar to negotiate down, while Mac sets a low bar knowing he'll negotiate up.

It appears Mo will have to be handled 1st unless Breno is cut to get Fitz under contract. Don't know where the money will come from for the rookies,

unless Fitz is the sacrificial lamb.

lol

The majority of this board has no shame. On top of the sheets is how the majority JNers do it. We don't even close the door. Not even with children in the house. 

Fitz set his bar high because he felt he had better numbers than guys who were getting that high-bar amount he's been seeking. The Jets are his best option more than he's the Jets' best option. The Jets aren't true contenders with or without him this year, no matter how much some want to believe that winning 10 games against ~14 weaklings, in 15 games with great weather, makes it realistically hopeful in 2016.

So from that standpoint I view it as a waste of team resources. If it's at $7Mx2, I'm ok with it because I wouldn't want a rookie (or Petty) rushed before he can handle it. If it's $9-10M for 1 year, I am against it but I wouldn't scream like my hair was on fire. Two years at $10M each? Screw that. Let Geno get steamrolled for the first 7 games and then the better one of those 2 should be able to take the field without the unprovable boogeyman worries about permanent ruination. If they're just as bad as Geno was, then we get a top 5 pick (or better) and can take a QB who doesn't need to be coddled for the next 5 years before he can learn footwork or taking a snap from center. 

[32EBoozer]

1 hour ago, Sperm Edwards said:

lol

The majority of this board has no shame. On top of the sheets is how the majority JNers do it. We don't even close the door. Not even with children in the house. 

Fitz set his bar high because he felt he had better numbers than guys who were getting that high-bar amount he's been seeking. The Jets are his best option more than he's the Jets' best option. The Jets aren't true contenders with or without him this year, no matter how much some want to believe that winning 10 games against ~14 weaklings, in 15 games with great weather, makes it realistically hopeful in 2016.

So from that standpoint I view it as a waste of team resources. If it's at $7Mx2, I'm ok with it because I wouldn't want a rookie (or Petty) rushed before he can handle it. If it's $9-10M for 1 year, I am against it but I wouldn't scream like my hair was on fire. Two years at $10M each? Screw that. Let Geno get steamrolled for the first 7 games and then the better one of those 2 should be able to take the field without the unprovable boogeyman worries about permanent ruination. If they're just as bad as Geno was, then we get a top 5 pick (or better) and can take a QB who doesn't need to be coddled for the next 5 years before he can learn footwork or taking a snap from center. 

Thanks for the inside info on how JNers do it..... 

The highlighted text is an absolute truth!

I guess we'll see how it plays out.

[Gangrene]

1 hour ago, Sperm Edwards said:

 If it's $9-10M for 1 year, I am against it but I wouldn't scream like my hair was on fire. Two years at $10M each? Screw that. Let Geno get steamrolled for the first 7 games and then the better one of those 2 should be able to take the field without the unprovable boogeyman worries about permanent ruination. If they're just as bad as Geno was, then we get a top 5 pick (or better) and can take a QB who doesn't need to be coddled for the next 5 years before he can learn footwork or taking a snap from center. 

I agree with this but the front office will never go in that direction. Like coaches who desperately try to win the last game of the season despite knowing that if they loose that game they get first pick in the draft.

GM's and coaches (I include Maccagnan/Bowles in this group) play for the short term and for their immediate job security over thinking long term. It would be smart from a  developmental/future draft position to start Geno even as a fan it would like be miserable to watch. Maccagnan/Bowles have a good first year to their resume. That first year was heavily financed by Idzik's  career suicide year , the previous year. Now with a much tougher schedule expectations are lowered, Maccagnan/Bowles  likely need just an 8 win season to continue the feel good environment that they created. Fitz can likely give you that... Geno less likely. They likely get at least two or three more years of gainful employment before being fired if they can maintain the mediocrity.

[Gangrene]

10 hours ago, Jetmech said:

More picks like John Idzick had in a draft loaded with WR's and came away with nothing?

The problem with the Jets is they've been unlucky in not being in the top 3 when a franchise QB was there.

Idzick is an idiot Savant, the extreme other end of talentless GM's.

I aspire to a GM who does not draft college qbs in the second round who were an interception machine in college.

Blame the Hackenberg's second and third year coaching staff all you like. Even his first "great year" under O'Brien he had ten inceptions.

We hoped that Geno might be coached up, ignoring the nose dive the end of a once great college career.

 

[Jetmech]

Idzick is an idiot Savant, the extreme other end of talentless GM's.

I aspire to a GM who does not draft college qbs in the second round who were an interception machine in college.

Blame the Hackenberg's second and third year coaching staff all you like. Even his first "great year" under O'Brien he had ten inceptions.

We hoped that Geno might be coached up, ignoring the nose dive the end of a once great college career.

 

I'm neutral on the hack pick just responded on have many picks and not doing anything with them.