Hypothetical Trade Question

[win4ever]

Von Miller and Mo Wilkerson are heading towards the end of the rope in terms of franchise tags and being able to negotiate.  Would you trade one for the other?  From the Jets standpoint, would you trade Mo Wilkerson for Von Miller and then pretty much give him 6 years $114 million with about $61 million of it guaranteed?  Miller is the better player of the two, but Denver doesn't seem willing to ante up the money quite as high as Miller wants and he has threatened to sit out the season if need be.   The Broncos could sign Wilkerson to around a $100 million deal, with less guarantees.   

For the Jets, Miller on the field would allow for Sheldon/Williams/NT group to anchor the line.

For the Broncos, they don't have to deal with the possibility that Miller sits out a year, while getting a Pro-Bowl caliber guy at a cheaper (but still substantial) rate.  

Would you make this deal?  Who do you think hangs up first?  Are you willing to pony up the cash, which quite possibly would make Miller the highest played defensive guy in the league?  What possible ramifications do you see down the road because of this?  

I also understand, that a trade like this would never happen, but hypothetically, I found it interesting.  

[BUM-KNEE]

I wouldnt make this deal.

We dont have the cash to sign Wilk, let alone Miller right now. They both want a deal now. 

Wilk is tagged, and more than likely wont sit out. (He wont want to lose the money he will get if he plays in 2016) We can get his deal done up next spring, and he will be a nice home grown talent for us for years. (I hope)

[Raideraholic]

4 hours ago, win4ever said:

Von Miller and Mo Wilkerson are heading towards the end of the rope in terms of franchise tags and being able to negotiate.  Would you trade one for the other?  From the Jets standpoint, would you trade Mo Wilkerson for Von Miller and then pretty much give him 6 years $114 million with about $61 million of it guaranteed?  Miller is the better player of the two, but Denver doesn't seem willing to ante up the money quite as high as Miller wants and he has threatened to sit out the season if need be.   The Broncos could sign Wilkerson to around a $100 million deal, with less guarantees.   

For the Jets, Miller on the field would allow for Sheldon/Williams/NT group to anchor the line.

For the Broncos, they don't have to deal with the possibility that Miller sits out a year, while getting a Pro-Bowl caliber guy at a cheaper (but still substantial) rate.  

Would you make this deal?  Who do you think hangs up first?  Are you willing to pony up the cash, which quite possibly would make Miller the highest played defensive guy in the league?  What possible ramifications do you see down the road because of this?  

I also understand, that a trade like this would never happen, but hypothetically, I found it interesting.  

The Broncos will get a deal done with Von Miller before the 15.( he is that important to their defense).   The Broncos would never make that deal with the Jets, and would hang up up pretty quickly on the Jets.     As good as Muhammad Wilkerson is, he isn't the game changer that Von Miller is.

The Broncos have done a nice job drafting defense linemen for their 3-4 ,( better chance they find someone close to Wilkerson, than finding an outside Lb who can do what Von Miller does.( one of the premier pass rushers in football at position you want the pressure to come from in the 3-4 defense).

 

[CrazyCarl40]

5 hours ago, BUM-KNEE said:

I wouldnt make this deal.

We dont have the cash to sign Wilk, let alone Miller right now. They both want a deal now. 

Wilk is tagged, and more than likely wont sit out. (He wont want to lose the money he will get if he plays in 2016) We can get his deal done up next spring, and he will be a nice home grown talent for us for years. (I hope)

This couldn't be further from the truth. The Jets have plenty of money to give to Mo, but are choosing not to. He's already on the books for nearly 16 million in 2016, why on Earth would they not have the money to re-sign him now?

As for the original question, the Jets would make that trade every day of the week and twice on Sunday. The Broncos wouldn't. Miller is a game changing defender and absolutely worth his asking price. Mo is a really good player and worth a good contract, but not at his price point. Jets would likely have to throw in some kind of pick or player for the Broncos to even think about it. 

[Jetster]

34 minutes ago, CrazyCarl40 said:

This couldn't be further from the truth. The Jets have plenty of money to give to Mo, but are choosing not to. He's already on the books for nearly 16 million in 2016, why on Earth would they not have the money to re-sign him now?

As for the original question, the Jets would make that trade every day of the week and twice on Sunday. The Broncos wouldn't. Miller is a game changing defender and absolutely worth his asking price. Mo is a really good player and worth a good contract, but not at his price point. Jets would likely have to throw in some kind of pick or player for the Broncos to even think about it. 

This is what I don't understand from the Jet fans that want to sign Mo for whatever his agent is asking, presumably 100 million dollar contract with like 50 mill guaranteed. Really? Is Mo THAT GOOD? I don't think so & I am so glad that the Washington Redskins bypassed Leonard Williams & he fell in the Jets lap.

Otherwise we would have been forced to just sign him up & we would have been the Houston Texans except worse because Mo is no JJ Watt. Do you guys know what you can buy for that kind of money? Khalil Mack will be worth that kind of money! Game changers. I really like Mo, he's a really good player, but "really good" doesn't deserve top 3 largest contract for Dlineman. He also has been the beneficiary of lining up next to Sheldon Richardson (defensive rookie of the year!), Damon Harrison (#1 rated NT in the league last year who just got a HUGE CONTRACT), and Williams last year who is a star in the making (21 year old phenom just getting started). Macc is doing the right thing. Tannenbaum would have signed him already. I love this new regime & the restraint they've showed (with Fitz also), plus the way he structured contracts. Building with an eye toward the future instead of pushing all of our chips into the center of the table like the old Jets regimes. Gotta love it.

[Jetdawgg]

Two things Isee; the market for DL has advanced north pretty fast. Mo and Miller are now worth what they are asking. The current teams don't have to pay that.

The NFL players now want to get paid as players and not by position.

[Integrity28]

8 hours ago, BUM-KNEE said:

I wouldnt make this deal.

We dont have the cash to sign Wilk, let alone Miller right now. They both want a deal now. 

Wilk is tagged, and more than likely wont sit out. (He wont want to lose the money he will get if he plays in 2016) We can get his deal done up next spring, and he will be a nice home grown talent for us for years. (I hope)

I would.

We have depth at DE, but not at OLB. Pay Miller and we have one of the best all-around LB corps in the league... and with or without Wilk, we have one of the best DLs in the league. 

[NYs Stepchild]

8 hours ago, BUM-KNEE said:

I wouldnt make this deal.

We dont have the cash to sign Wilk, let alone Miller right now. They both want a deal now. 

Wilk is tagged, and more than likely wont sit out. (He wont want to lose the money he will get if he plays in 2016) We can get his deal done up next spring, and he will be a nice home grown talent for us for years. (I hope)

Wow. Firstly we have plenty of money but choose not to spend game changing money on a non game changing position. 

Secondly, wow. Von is a top 3 game changer. I would trade all of our lineman for him. The real problem is if the Broncos don't want to pay Miller then they certainly won't pay Mo. I'd fly in with the paperwork myself today if they made that offer. 

[greenwichjetfan]

There are very very few players in this league that I would not trade for Von Miller. 

Mo Wilk; and I love that big guy, is not one of them. 

[Lupz27]

9 hours ago, win4ever said:

Von Miller and Mo Wilkerson are heading towards the end of the rope in terms of franchise tags and being able to negotiate.  Would you trade one for the other?  From the Jets standpoint, would you trade Mo Wilkerson for Von Miller and then pretty much give him 6 years $114 million with about $61 million of it guaranteed?  Miller is the better player of the two, but Denver doesn't seem willing to ante up the money quite as high as Miller wants and he has threatened to sit out the season if need be.   The Broncos could sign Wilkerson to around a $100 million deal, with less guarantees.   

For the Jets, Miller on the field would allow for Sheldon/Williams/NT group to anchor the line.

For the Broncos, they don't have to deal with the possibility that Miller sits out a year, while getting a Pro-Bowl caliber guy at a cheaper (but still substantial) rate.  

Would you make this deal?  Who do you think hangs up first?  Are you willing to pony up the cash, which quite possibly would make Miller the highest played defensive guy in the league?  What possible ramifications do you see down the road because of this?  

I also understand, that a trade like this would never happen, but hypothetically, I found it interesting.  

1. This will never happen.

2. Where the fck do I sign to make this happen AND pay him what ever the **** he wants.

3. Play me at QB we still would have a shot at Super Bowl if everyone stays healthy.

[Joe Jets fan]

10 hours ago, win4ever said:

Von Miller and Mo Wilkerson are heading towards the end of the rope in terms of franchise tags and being able to negotiate.  Would you trade one for the other?  From the Jets standpoint, would you trade Mo Wilkerson for Von Miller and then pretty much give him 6 years $114 million with about $61 million of it guaranteed?  Miller is the better player of the two, but Denver doesn't seem willing to ante up the money quite as high as Miller wants and he has threatened to sit out the season if need be.   The Broncos could sign Wilkerson to around a $100 million deal, with less guarantees.   

For the Jets, Miller on the field would allow for Sheldon/Williams/NT group to anchor the line.

For the Broncos, they don't have to deal with the possibility that Miller sits out a year, while getting a Pro-Bowl caliber guy at a cheaper (but still substantial) rate.  

Would you make this deal?  Who do you think hangs up first?  Are you willing to pony up the cash, which quite possibly would make Miller the highest played defensive guy in the league?  What possible ramifications do you see down the road because of this?  

I also understand, that a trade like this would never happen, but hypothetically, I found it interesting.  

IMO Mo wants the 6 years $114 mil. with $61 Mil. Guaranteed.  I would never give Mo that kind of $$

 

Miller will sign by Friday for like  6 years, $120 Mil. with $75 Guaranteed  and I would pay that in a NY minute.

[KRL]

Maccagnan would make that deal in a second!!!  Miller is one of the elite defensive game changers where
Wilkerson is a good player.  There's no comparison between the two.  Miller basically carried DEN to a
Super Bowl last year, when we needed a win in the HOU or BUF games to make the playoffs Wilkerson was
nowhere to be found

[Bleedin Green]

I'm a big Wilk fan, but there's no question that Miller is the far superior player of the two.  As others have said, Denver would never consider such a deal, but if they would, the Jets should and would absolutely go with it.  It would only be that much more justified for the Jets considering how much significantly stronger they are at DL than OLB, even without Wilk.  If the respective contract rumors are true, Miller is asking for more, but not that much more, especially when you consider the difference of them as players.  A better player at a greater position of need makes a big contract a lot easier to justify.

[Il Mostro]

Mo is very good.  Miller is great.  Now, what else are we giving up in this fantasy land trade?

[Ex-Rex]

5 hours ago, Jetster said:

This is what I don't understand from the Jet fans that want to sign Mo for whatever his agent is asking, presumably 100 million dollar contract with like 50 mill guaranteed. Really? Is Mo THAT GOOD? I don't think so & I am so glad that the Washington Redskins bypassed Leonard Williams & he fell in the Jets lap.

Otherwise we would have been forced to just sign him up & we would have been the Houston Texans except worse because Mo is no JJ Watt. Do you guys know what you can buy for that kind of money? Khalil Mack will be worth that kind of money! Game changers. I really like Mo, he's a really good player, but "really good" doesn't deserve top 3 largest contract for Dlineman. He also has been the beneficiary of lining up next to Sheldon Richardson (defensive rookie of the year!), Damon Harrison (#1 rated NT in the league last year who just got a HUGE CONTRACT), and Williams last year who is a star in the making (21 year old phenom just getting started). Macc is doing the right thing. Tannenbaum would have signed him already. I love this new regime & the restraint they've showed (with Fitz also), plus the way he structured contracts. Building with an eye toward the future instead of pushing all of our chips into the center of the table like the old Jets regimes. Gotta love it.

I agree. I like Mo, but I will not weep when he leaves because we have his replacement in house. Both Richardson and Williams are at least two years younger and have very high ceilings. Mo is a very good but not great player. Let him destroy someone else's salary cap structure like Tanny is doing in Miami with his signings. In two years Miami will have to let good players go because of Suh and his other "splashy" signings.

[detectivekimble]

3 hours ago, Integrity28 said:

I would.

We have depth at DE, but not at OLB. Pay Miller and we have one of the best all-around LB corps in the league... and with or without Wilk, we have one of the best DLs in the league. 

Exactly.  Not to mention that Miller is the better player.  What kind of idiot wouldn't make that deal?

[mickeyshuler]

OK  wasn't gonna post this but keeping things anonymous....

Have a relation to someone who coached at the Jets for a long time, till Rex got canned.

Says Mo is different then other guys, he's a throwback. He WANTS to play for the Jets. Says the Jets would be nuts to let the guy go, no way he gets big money and gets lazy. Absolute no brainer that he is the choice if need be over Sheldon, no comparison. 

Also, on QB, says Geno not a starter in this league, has a lot to do with personality but ability to process information as well as leadership qualities.

Again, not my opinions, but someone who knows all the guys mentioned very well.

[BUM-KNEE]

7 hours ago, CrazyCarl40 said:

This couldn't be further from the truth. The Jets have plenty of money to give to Mo, but are choosing not to. He's already on the books for nearly 16 million in 2016, why on Earth would they not have the money to re-sign him now?

As for the original question, the Jets would make that trade every day of the week and twice on Sunday. The Broncos wouldn't. Miller is a game changing defender and absolutely worth his asking price. Mo is a really good player and worth a good contract, but not at his price point. Jets would likely have to throw in some kind of pick or player for the Broncos to even think about it. 

We do? 

I was under the assumption that we were hovering around 3 mil in cap space right now.

[CrazyCarl40]

8 minutes ago, BUM-KNEE said:

We do? 

I was under the assumption that we were hovering around 3 mil in cap space right now.

They are. That includes the Franchise Tag of ~15.7 million. Heck, depending on how the contract is structured, they could SAVE money on the cap this season by extending him.

[The Crusher]

9 hours ago, Raideraholic said:

The Broncos will get a deal done with Von Miller before the 15.( he is that important to their defense).   The Broncos would never make that deal with the Jets, and would hang up up pretty quickly on the Jets.     As good as Muhammad Wilkerson is, he isn't the game changer that Von Miller is.

The Broncos have done a nice job drafting defense linemen for their 3-4 ,( better chance they find someone close to Wilkerson, than finding an outside Lb who can do what Von Miller does.( one of the premier pass rushers in football at position you want the pressure to come from in the 3-4 defense).

 

Hypothetical.

[Raideraholic]

36 minutes ago, The Crusher said:

Hypothetical.

Don't use big words on me, you know I'm a Raider fan. Right.

[jbt]

3 hours ago, mickeyshuler said:

OK  wasn't gonna post this but keeping things anonymous....

Have a relation to someone who coached at the Jets for a long time, till Rex got canned.

Says Mo is different then other guys, he's a throwback. He WANTS to play for the Jets. Says the Jets would be nuts to let the guy go, no way he gets big money and gets lazy. Absolute no brainer that he is the choice if need be over Sheldon, no comparison. 

Also, on QB, says Geno not a starter in this league, has a lot to do with personality but ability to process information as well as leadership qualities.

Again, not my opinions, but someone who knows all the guys mentioned very well.

he might be a great guy but talent wise Richardson is better.  you dont overpay someone because he wants to play for you and is a throwback.  Mo is really good but not a difference maker especially with the jets depth at DL.  if he was our only good player there, then a different story

[jamesr]

3 hours ago, CrazyCarl40 said:

They are. That includes the Franchise Tag of ~15.7 million. Heck, depending on how the contract is structured, they could SAVE money on the cap this season by extending him.

To put it into context - Fletcher Cox, he of the 6 year, $102.6m contract, has a 2016 cap hit of $6.5m.

That's not a typo.

[mickeyshuler]

1 hour ago, jbt said:

he might be a great guy but talent wise Richardson is better.  you dont overpay someone because he wants to play for you and is a throwback.  Mo is really good but not a difference maker especially with the jets depth at DL.  if he was our only good player there, then a different story

Thats debatable who is better, what's not debatable is who is less likely to get suspended in the future and/or who is likely to get lazy when they do get paid.

[drdetroit]

Do that trade in a heartbeat.

 

sign miller next offseason when we do have the cap room

[win4ever]

Hmm, pretty much my thoughts as well.  I would do the trade because Miller is more of a difference maker than Wilkerson, even at the high end pay.

The other reason being that QB should be cheap for us in the upcoming years (either via draft pick or the current crop) unless Geno goes Kirk Cousins on us.  However, it would have cap ramifications down the line, as the extra money is going to hurt us somewhere.  

Yeah, the trade will never happen but I thought it was an interesting scenario for both teams.   I expect Miller to sign by the deadline because he already is fine with the larger contract number, just wants more guaranteed money, and I see Denver bending for it.  

[Jet Nut]

8 hours ago, NYs Stepchild said:

Wow. Firstly we have plenty of money but choose not to spend game changing money on a non game changing position. 

Secondly, wow. Von is a top 3 game changer. I would trade all of our lineman for him. The real problem is if the Broncos don't want to pay Miller then they certainly won't pay Mo. I'd fly in with the paperwork myself today if they made that offer. 

Which is why fans aren't good at playing GM.

[joewilly12]

VonMiller isn't coming to the NY Jets 

[BUM-KNEE]

9 hours ago, CrazyCarl40 said:

They are. That includes the Franchise Tag of ~15.7 million. Heck, depending on how the contract is structured, they could SAVE money on the cap this season by extending him.

Ok, well if you add a players salary beyond the 15.7mil in Miller, how would he get paid THIS year?

I will be the first to admit Im no cap guru, but the numbers dont add up to me. If he gets paid say 20mil THIS season, then we are maxed out.

That kinda flies in the face of your statement of "couldnt be farther from the truth" from before. We ARE up against the cap this season.

[CrazyCarl40]

6 hours ago, BUM-KNEE said:

Ok, well if you add a players salary beyond the 15.7mil in Miller, how would he get paid THIS year?

I will be the first to admit Im no cap guru, but the numbers dont add up to me. If he gets paid say 20mil THIS season, then we are maxed out.

That kinda flies in the face of your statement of "couldnt be farther from the truth" from before. We ARE up against the cap this season.

Now you're changing the premise. I never said they weren't up against the cap. You said they don't have money to re-sign Mo. That, in fact, couldn't be further from the truth because they do. And there is literally zero chance they'd front load the contract when they have so much space freeing up in the next few seasons. Players are fine with a base salary of like 8 million or less in the first season because their signing bonus is usually three or four times that and then spread out evenly over the life of the contract on the cap. You are right about one thing, you are no cap guru. 

[BUM-KNEE]

1 hour ago, CrazyCarl40 said:

Now you're changing the premise. I never said they weren't up against the cap. You said they don't have money to re-sign Mo. That, in fact, couldn't be further from the truth because they do. And there is literally zero chance they'd front load the contract when they have so much space freeing up in the next few seasons. Players are fine with a base salary of like 8 million or less in the first season because their signing bonus is usually three or four times that and then spread out evenly over the life of the contract on the cap. You are right about one thing, you are no cap guru. 

No that was exactly the premise I was mentioning before.

[CrazyCarl40]

10 minutes ago, BUM-KNEE said:

No that was exactly the premise I was mentioning before.

 

On July 13, 2016 at 0:17 AM, BUM-KNEE said:

I wouldnt make this deal.

We dont have the cash to sign Wilk, let alone Miller right now. They both want a deal now. 

Wilk is tagged, and more than likely wont sit out. (He wont want to lose the money he will get if he plays in 2016) We can get his deal done up next spring, and he will be a nice home grown talent for us for years. (I hope)

Why you lying bruh? 

[PCP63]

lol

[Joe Jets fan]

33 minutes ago, CrazyCarl40 said:

 

Why you lying bruh? 

I think he ment he was no guru when he said premise.

I don't think he understands signing bonus and how it can be spread over the entire contract.  

@BUM-KNEE if a player signed a contract for 5 years, $10mil salary a year with a $10 mil signing bonus his cap hit is $12 mil a year but player gets $20 mil first year. 

[BUM-KNEE]

6 hours ago, Joe Jets fan said:

I think he ment he was no guru when he said premise.

I don't think he understands signing bonus and how it can be spread over the entire contract.  

@BUM-KNEE if a player signed a contract for 5 years, $10mil salary a year with a $10 mil signing bonus his cap hit is $12 mil a year but player gets $20 mil first year. 

Well I basicly get the concept, but like I said Im no cap guru.

But that 20mil the first year is what doesnt compute to me for us. If we are already on the hook for Wilk's 16mil, and we are at 3mil in extra cap, we would be up against the wall cap wise this year shelling out 20mil for somebody else in trade.

Maybe Im just seeing it wrong, Im effing tired, classes are making my brain mush...