Presnap Reads are Fitz' Real Issue

[House Jet]

http://www.ganggreennation.com/2016/10/5/13168388/ryan-fitzpatrick-its-more-than-the-interceptions#comments

 

Ryan Fitzpatrick: It's More Than the Interceptions

141

by John B Oct 5, 2016, 11:00a

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Robert Deutsch-USA TODAY Sports

"He has nine interceptions in two games."

That is the something you hear a lot about Ryan Fitzpatrick these day. Alas, if only it was this simple. There are plays from Sunday's game that just make you go crazy.

Here is a red zone play where the Jets have three receivers lined up to his right. Presumably this is where his primary read would be. On the other side he only has Kellen Davis. Brandon Marshall is on the inside.

 

 

Marshall is on the inside. There is a window to get him this ball.

 

 

 

 

 

 

He ends up checking the ball down to Bilal Powell, though. This was the controversial early play where a Powell fumble was taken away as the play was called incomplete

 

Was the play supposed to go to Powell? It wasn't a screen. There are no blockers there. Seattle isn't really an aggressive defense that you can catch on a blitz either so I'm not sure this was by design. I also have my doubts that in a red zone situation your first look would be on a side with only one receiver by the name of Kellen Davis while Marshall is on the other side with three guys running a route combination.

Here's another play that is less than a thing of beauty. It looks like a one man pattern against Richard Sherman. I don't think it was by design, though. I think Fitzpatrick was looking, saw Sherman late to his position, and tried to take advantage by changing the play on the fly with Enunwa.

 

 

Sherman still isn't at his position by the time the ball is snapped but close enough to make a play.

 

By the time the throw is made, Sherman has Enunwa blanketed

 

Enunwa and Fitzpatrick aren't on the same page.

You can see here that the Jets are blocking this like a run play. It isn't play action since there's no attempt to give Matt Forte the ball. Forte doesn't even seem to know what to do when he doesn't get it.

 

 

Fitzpatrick did this on his own with Enunwa, but overestimated the timing and ability to catch a cornerback as great as Sherman. In the process, a really dangerous throw is made.

Here he has a screen set up on his right hand side, but he's intent going one on one with Marshall against Sherman. The problem is Marshall isn't one on one.

 

 

Look at how much ground Thomas has closed by the time the ball is on its way out.

 

 

 

 

This may or may not be an "interceptable pass" but it is a poor decision and a dangerous throw. To be fair to Fitzpatrick, the Jets blow an assignment up front that gets him hit. The screen would not have been there to go back to him because the line is sliding left, and the back doesn't pick up the rusher on the edge.

 

 

Still, this is not the right play. I don't know whether the first option was to throw a timing play to Marshall, but the presnap situation indicates the screen on the other side was set up.

Now let's move onto an underthrow on a deep ball to Robby Anderson. Here I'm not convinced the greatest sin was necessarily an off target pass. It was the decision-making process that led to the pass.

This third down play is schemed pretty well. Charone Peake comes into motion to line up near Brandon Marshall.

 

At the snap, Peake's route helps set a legal pick on Sherman to set Marshall free.

 

 

Marshall isn't a lock to get a first down if the ball is coming his way, but he does have enough daylight to potentially get to the sticks.

 

 

Fitzpatrick isn't looking in his way. Such is life without a quarterback who can't see the field.

On his side, though, there is Bilal Powell who might be a block and making one man miss away from picking up the first down.

 

 

Rather than trusting one of his top playmakers such as Powell who had converted a number of catches underneath into first downs by getting to the sticks, Fitzpatrick decides he is going to trust an undrafted rookie seeing his first real NFL action. As you can see, Anderson has no separation at the time the ball is thrown. Yes he does break free, but that is partially because he is going at top speed rather than tracking the ball once it is in the air. Yes, if Fitzpatrick throws it in front of him, it could be a touchdown. Still, this is a low percentage play with a play being run specifically to free up his number one receiver and a second option with a proficiency for converting plays like this being ignored.

It has been a story too frequent in a long NFL career. He cannot see the whole field and is forcing the ball where it doesn't make sense. When it makes sense to go to Marshall, he isn't looking.

It isn't just that he's throwing interceptions. It is that the thought process is bad on too many plays. Again, this is no great shock. If you watched the film for long chunks of last season, there was plenty of bad but also enough stretches of good to be effective.

Now you have a quarterback who seems so unsure of what to do that he's taking sacks and losing yardage when he could easily throw passes away.

 

 

It isn't just the interceptions. There are too many plays being left on the field

 

[The Crusher]

Darrelle Revis is fat and slow.

[House Jet]

 

1 minute ago, The Crusher said:

Darrelle Revis is fat and slow.

I agree lol still doesnt excuse fitz for being a bad qb

[The Crusher]

1 minute ago, House Jet said:

 

I agree lol still doesnt excuse fitz for being a bad qb

Fitz has always been a bad QB against good teams.  Nothing new here.  Revis on the other hand use to have an island. Now he has a big fat ass.

[Embrace the Suck]

Yeah, but if anyone but Fitz lines up at Qb they would line up on the wrong side of the ball and try to take the snap from the nose tackle. 

[Embrace the Suck]

9 minutes ago, The Crusher said:

Fitz has always been a bad QB against good teams.  Nothing new here.  Revis on the other hand use to have an island. Now he has a big fat ass.

Best bet is to move him to free safety where his age won't hurt him as much.

[RoadFan]

He doesn't have a "real" issue.  He has many.

[House Jet]

13 minutes ago, The Crusher said:

Fitz has always been a bad QB against good teams.  Nothing new here.  Revis on the other hand use to have an island. Now he has a big fat ass.

The defense isnt playing great but neither is the offense, especially Fitz. I posted this because its more than the classic "fitz has a noodle arm and is inaccurate" argument. The issues surrounding the qb are nothing to be dismissed. 

I can try and find an article on why the defense has been bad and we can discuss revis there.

[Mike135]

Look, you have to pay your starting QB in this league.  That's the real issue right there.  Fitz is insulted he's not being paid as well as other elite QBs, so he's playing horribly.  We need to restructure some guys to immediately bump his salary up to 20mil.  And give Fitz an 8mil bonus to make up for paying him so little last season.  It's only fair, and it's not like it's our money.  Doesn't make a difference whatsoever.  

[House Jet]

17 minutes ago, RoadFan said:

He doesn't have a "real" issue.  He has many.

Semantics. This is a big issue and a good article illuminating the issue. 

[56mehl56]

You will find instances where any starting QB in the NFL makes bad pre-snap reads ,its part of the game.

Having said that , that aspect is probably the best attribute Fitz brings to the table.  He utilizes most of the time clock and will typically identify a favorable first read. Its his physical attributes(arm) that prevents him from being a better QB.  Its also a prime reason why he struggles with a hurry up offense , he needs to make sure his first read is correct. . When his first read is covered or he is forced to play uptempo (ie from behind) he cannot improvise because his arm lacks the strength to exploit a blown coverage or a freelance play by his receivers. But oh well the 2nd half of the season has a few weaker opponents, Fitz can snow the Jets front office one more time. Maybe they'll give him the 16M next year 

[win4ever]

Very good article.  And this is a big problem because the whole point of a spread offense is to find the weaknesses at pre-snap, which is why you'll see a lot of college teams rush to the line, see the defense, and then turn to the sideline for an audible because the coaches are making the pre-snap reads.  He's been identifying the wrong reads, and unwillingly to scan the field at all, which just doesn't work against good defenses.  

[CanadienJetsFan]

I'm depressed now, thanks for posting.

 

[Miss Lonelyhearts]

PRESNAP READS 

[HessStation]

6 minutes ago, Miss Lonelyhearts said:

PRESNAP READS 

THE HOLY GRAIL

[CrazyCarl40]

1 hour ago, Embrace the Suck said:

Best bet is to move him to free safety where his age won't hurt him as much.

Yes, a 17 million dollar free safety makes sense.

24 minutes ago, House Jet said:

Semantics. This is a big issue and a good article illuminating the issue. 

Meh. On almost all of those "bad reads" he's about to get smacked. He doesn't have time to go through his progressions many times. There are many issues both on offense and defense. Breaking down Fitz tape makes no difference. The team knows his flaws and so does he. It's up to the staff to put him and other players in better situations. 

[Embrace the Suck]

Just now, CrazyCarl40 said:

Yes, a 17 million dollar free safety makes sense.

Meh. On almost all of those "bad reads" he's about to get smacked. He doesn't have time to go through his progressions many times. There are many issues both on offense and defense. Breaking down Fitz tape makes no difference. The team knows his flaws and so does he. It's up to the staff to put him and other players in better situations. 

Well if he's a liability at cb and he costs too much to cut... Yeah I'd rather he be a good fs (maybe) than burnt toast at cb for a year and then cut him when it isn't cap prohibitive. If he can be cut after this year that works too.

[August]

I thought Fitzpatrick was smart and could read defenses and could identify his pre snap reads? Now he can't?

[Mike135]

1 minute ago, August said:

I thought Fitzpatrick was smart and could read defenses and could identify his pre snap reads? Now he can't?

Fitz may be book smart (though I've known Harvard grads who proved otherwise), but I don't think Fitz has ever been considered football smart.

He's a bad starting, or competent backup quarterback who can hold the fort vs average and worse teams when he's at his best.

[Jet Nut]

5 minutes ago, August said:

I thought Fitzpatrick was smart and could read defenses and could identify his pre snap reads? Now he can't?

Why do people assume hes football smart?  Its not that difficult where it takes a high IQ, dummies have made really successful so why do we assume this? He hardly ever looks off a receiver, locks on to his primary receiver often, and throws into multiple coverages too often.  

[August]

11 minutes ago, Mike135 said:

Fitz may be book smart (though I've known Harvard grads who proved otherwise), but I don't think Fitz has ever been considered football smart.

He's a bad starting, or competent backup quarterback who can hold the fort vs average and worse teams when he's at his best.

 

8 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Why do people assume hes football smart?  Its not that difficult where it takes a high IQ, dummies have made really successful so why do we assume this? He hardly ever looks off a receiver, locks on to his primary receiver often, and throws into multiple coverages too often.  

I was reiterating what I heard about Fitzpatrick. Just like Fitzpatrick won't turn the ball over or lose games for you...

[Mike135]

1 minute ago, August said:

 

I was reiterating what I heard about Fitzpatrick. Just like Fitzpatrick won't turn the ball over or lose games for you...

Oh well the bolded part is definitely true.

[JetPotato]

Sucks pre-snap

Sucks post-snap

Has a cool beard

[drsamuel84]

This shows me that Chan's doing a good job at least.  The schemes are there, guys are getting open Fitz just doesn't see them.  OTH with some of these throws in traffic it's no wonder Decker's hurt and B. Marsh is beat up.  They're taking a beating just fighting for these "flutter" passes in traffic.

[Integrity28]

15 hours ago, The Crusher said:

Darrelle Revis is fat and slow.

And now hiding behind an injury. 

13 hours ago, Mike135 said:

Fitz may be book smart (though I've known Harvard grads who proved otherwise), but I don't think Fitz has ever been considered football smart.

He's a bad starting, or competent backup quarterback who can hold the fort vs average and worse teams when he's at his best.

Yes, agreed with bold. I've said this the past 2 years. Favre mentality, Pennington arm. He's competent as a starter, but an he's an average starter that's going to help you win 6-10, depending upon the schedule and strengths of the team around him. This is exactly who he is. Those that supported bringing him back for a year knew so, and hoped for something close to 10 wins (again) based on the improvements on defense, addition of Forte and Khiry Robinson, and another year in the system with the majority of the starters.

The defense has sucked, Robinson got hurt, and Forte is being used as a between the tackles runner, when statistics will show you he sucks at that, and she be used more in the receiving game. Still... Nobody, not even his detractors, thought Fitz would bottom out like this. Anyone saying "I told you so" right now is full of sh*t. We all knew he's mediocre, and the argument has always been about accepting mediocre vs. hypotheticals about Geno... but all of that goes out the window with 9 INTs in 2 weeks. That's a depth below anyone's anticipation, regardless of where you sat in the debate. He's got to ride the pine for that sh*t. No question.

Now it becomes hypotheticals about Geno vs. hypotheticals about Petty, and which player playing benefits the team most in the short- and long-term. Petty is under contract next year, actual reps and experience would be ideal for him. Geno playing opens the door to him doing well, then walking, or being resigned... but is he really going to do well enough to justify a second contract? No. Most people don't think so. 

So really, I want Petty out there. We have to know what we have for 2017.

13 hours ago, Jet Nut said:

Why do people assume hes football smart?  Its not that difficult where it takes a high IQ, dummies have made really successful so why do we assume this? He hardly ever looks off a receiver, locks on to his primary receiver often, and throws into multiple coverages too often.  

There are Fitz supporters who also make bad arguments, those would be the folks that insist Harvard = football smart. I agree with you here.

[Beerfish]

One reason for the outlandish ints is that the ny jets actually try and win games when they are behind and take chances.  The QB is not good enough to get away with taking so many chances.  I'd rather go down in flames trying to win than be a team like Tampa whose coach punted from the other teams 45 yard line, 4th and 4 down by 20 points with 7 minutes left.

[Integrity28]

Just now, Beerfish said:

One reason for the outlandish ints is that the ny jets actually try and win games when they are behind and take chances.  The QB is not good enough to get away with taking so many chances.  I'd rather go down in flames trying to win than be a team like Tampa whose coach punted from the other teams 45 yard line, 4th and 4 down by 20 points with 7 minutes left.

Agree with this. The INTs are hard to accept, but in the context of them being last-ditch efforts to mount a comeback... at least we're not curling up in a ball, and packing it in after going down by 7 points... because that was how the Mangini and Rex Jets were more often than not. 

We don't have the lead? Uh, well, game over. Let's go home.

[SAR I]

30 minutes ago, Integrity28 said:

Agree with this. The INTs are hard to accept, but in the context of them being last-ditch efforts to mount a comeback... at least we're not curling up in a ball, and packing it in after going down by 7 points... because that was how the Mangini and Rex Jets were more often than not.

Precisely.

And just yesterday Brandon Marshall told the media one of the INT's on Sunday was his fault as he ran the wrong route.  So if you take the 10 Fitzpatrick interceptions:

7 happened in desperation garbage time trying to mount a last-ditch comeback
1 was Anderson's fault
1 was Marshall's fault
1 was legitimately Fitzpatrick's fault

So we can stop hearing about "waaah, waaah, look at all the awful interceptions!" now.  Our quarterback isn't turnover prone until circumstances dictate he and Gailey have to go for broke to try to win a game the defense has thrown away.  Let's fix the defense, everything else takes care of itself after that.

SAR I

[Integrity28]

2 minutes ago, SAR I said:

Precisely.

And just yesterday Brandon Marshall told the media one of the INT's on Sunday was his fault as he ran the wrong route.  So if you take the 10 Fitzpatrick interceptions:

7 happened in desperation garbage time trying to mount a last-ditch comeback
1 was Anderson's fault
1 was Marshall's fault
1 was legitimately Fitzpatrick's fault

So we can stop hearing about "waaah, waaah, look at all the awful interceptions!" now.  Our quarterback isn't turnover prone until circumstances dictate he and Gailey have to go for broke to try to win a game the defense has thrown away.  Let's fix the defense, everything else takes care of itself after that.

SAR I

The defense is supposed to be winning the game for us, the QB (Fitz specifically) is supposed to just not lose it.

[August]

I just love to see people expose their hypocrisy and double standards. Fitzpatrick is getting passes for things previous QB's (Sanchez and Geno) got killed for. 

[phill1c]

It all about who you like with these folks (though they aren't defending him). They just make so many excuses it appears to be defending him.

[FloridaJetsFan]

17 hours ago, The Crusher said:

Darrelle Revis is fat and slow.

Dear Pot, the Kettle says 'Hello!'

[Snell41]

Fitz's problem is presnap, post snap, between plays, sideline while defense is on the field. The guy has a sh*t arm, sh*t accuracy, sh*t decision making, sh*t everything. Only thing he does well is grow a beard.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[The Crusher]

31 minutes ago, FloridaJetsFan said:

Dear Pot, the Kettle says 'Hello!'

Agreed.  Yet at the same time I'm assuming I'm the last person you would think of when you think, " shutdown corner."

[Scoop24]

1 hour ago, August said:

I just love to see people expose their hypocrisy and double standards. Fitzpatrick is getting passes for things previous QB's (Sanchez and Geno) got killed for. 

Lmaoo it's real when they breaks down 10 ints and say only 1 out of 10 is his fault