Dinamite Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 Bowles/Mac coming back allows for continuity. But an argument could be made that another bad year and one or both are fired. With that in mind, do Mac and Bowles go out and sign more veterans to make a run for the playoffs? They may think that a true rebuild season gets them fired, so they may go on a spending spree and load up on rentals to squeeze into the playoffs. Unfortunately this means a proper rebuild may not happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deucebag Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 Knowing the Jets it will be a refurbishing year. On the positive side...you can turn around a team in one year with a solid draft and effective use of free agency. Unfortunately with no QB obvious options - this is a huge challenge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
k-met57 Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 really depends on what they think of Hack/Petty and QB options. if they cant bring in a QB who can win with an average team....then blow it up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
August Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 No more retooling let's blow this thing up and rebuild. We have a few young building blocks already in place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deucebag Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 4 minutes ago, August said: No more retooling let's blow this thing up and rebuild. We have a few young building blocks already in place. Woodyi wont allow that....I bet anything we end up with a veteran retread at QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FidelioJet Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 This is absolutely a blow up project. Should have been done two years ago. Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joewilly12 Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 The Jets remind me of an old couch the frame, springs and cushions are shot but someone throws a slipcover on it thinking they will once again have a new couch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Integrity28 Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 9 minutes ago, Dinamite said: Bowles/Mac coming back allows for continuity. But an argument could be made that another bad year and one or both are fired. With that in mind, do Mac and Bowles go out and sign more veterans to make a run for the playoffs? They may think that a true rebuild season gets them fired, so they may go on a spending spree and load up on rentals to squeeze into the playoffs. Unfortunately this means a proper rebuild may not happen. They've been adding players via draft for 2 years. This notion that a "proper" rebuild isn't happening, and may not be able to happen, is sort of absurd. Every year is a rebuild until it it isn't. The veteran contracts given out haven't been prohibitive to adding lots of young players. By year 3 we should finally see worth of first drafts players. Old vets can be cut loose with minimal cap hit. Jets are primed as one of top teams with space to clear based on what I've read. We target 2nd contract players and we can speed up this so-called rebuild quickly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dinamite Posted January 2, 2017 Author Share Posted January 2, 2017 1 minute ago, Integrity28 said: They've been adding players via draft for 2 years. This notion that a "proper" rebuild isn't happening, and may not be able to happen, is sort of absurd. Every year is a rebuild until it it isn't. The veteran contracts given out haven't been prohibitive to adding lots of young players. By year 3 we should finally see worth of first drafts players. Old vets can be cut loose with minimal cap hit. Jets are primed as one of top teams with space to clear based on what I've read. We target 2nd contract players and we can speed up this so-called rebuild quickly. This is true. I agree with you that the last 2 drafts provide some base, and smart FA signings of 2nd contract players is consistent with a rebuild. The point I was trying to make is that given Mac/Bowles may be on a "prove it" year, on fear is that they abandon the blueprint and sign 3rd contract guys and names in lieu of young ones, trading draft picks (e.g., Romo), etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southtown24th Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 COMPLETE REBUILD including a first round QB selection Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southtown24th Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 4 minutes ago, joewilly12 said: The Jets remind me of an old couch the frame, springs and cushions are shot but someone throws a slipcover on it thinking they will once again have a new couch. You got it. Slipcover comes in the form of some sort of veteran, retread QB that no one else wants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ex-Rex Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 9 minutes ago, k-met57 said: really depends on what they think of Hack/Petty and QB options. if they cant bring in a QB who can win with an average team....then blow it up. A good draft IMO would consist of a starting left tackle, a free safety, a CB and RB. I would let Matt Forte walk and play Bilal Powell. Also, a veteran QB that is not a old retread would allow Petty and Hackenberg one more year to get up to speed. I'm not sure what the FA market for QB's looks like right now so I won't speculate on who I think we should bring in. I would like Jay Cutler, and I know I will get a lot of flak for it, but he has all the tools physically but we would have to get rid of Brandon Marshall since they don't get along. I want Marshall gone anyway so no big deal there. I think Cutler would benefit from a young WR corps with Robbie Anderson, Jalen Marshall, Charone Peake, Quincy Enunwa and Eric Decker and they would benefit from his experience. He is a gunslinger who throws picks, I know, but who do we have that is better? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
August Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 7 minutes ago, deucebag said: Woodyi wont allow that....I bet anything we end up with a veteran retread at QB. I wouldn't be surprised either. But the right thing is to blow things up. With Woody stepping down hopefully they will do the right thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyCarl40 Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 What will happen in 2017 with the Jets about a "retool or rebuild" will be answered by who the starting QB is. If it's Petty with Hack in the wings then it's slightly more on the rebuild side. If they bring a vet to start then it's more on the retool side. But in fairness, rebuilding has been happening the last two seasons, just not in the positions that need it most. They need an overhaul of the secondary (likely three or more new starters) and a big fix to the offensive line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ex-Rex Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 1 minute ago, southtown24th said: COMPLETE REBUILD including a first round QB selection There IS NOT a QB worthy of a first round pick in this draft. Any QB picked in the first round is a reach and you don't reach for players. That was Tannenbaum's major problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbatesman Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 4 minutes ago, Integrity28 said: They've been adding players via draft for 2 years. This notion that a "proper" rebuild isn't happening, and may not be able to happen, is sort of absurd. Every year is a rebuild until it it isn't. The veteran contracts given out haven't been prohibitive to adding lots of young players. By year 3 we should finally see worth of first drafts players. Old vets can be cut loose with minimal cap hit. Jets are primed as one of top teams with space to clear based on what I've read. We target 2nd contract players and we can speed up this so-called rebuild quickly. Targeting 2nd contract players is the exact opposite of speeding up a rebuild. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joejet Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 It should be a structured rebuild. Start by dumping the overpaid older players. Try to find some young veterans to fill some of the holes such as LT and CB and then nail the draft. The offensive line and the defensive backfield should be a major focus. The one defining decision will obviously be the QB. Mac and Bowles have to step back and decide if Petty and Hack are really the future or not and if not have the balls to swallow their pride and move on. If they truly believe they are the answer then they should add a later round QB to give them 3 going into the year. If they don't believe they are the answer it then gets tricky, do they go young veteran such as Glennon or Taylor; or do they believe one of the Qb's coming out of the draft could be the guy. Please no older veteran like Fitz etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southtown24th Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 1 minute ago, Ex-Rex said: There IS NOT a QB worthy of a first round pick in this draft. Any QB picked in the first round is a reach and you don't reach for players. That was Tannenbaum's major problem. OK. HIGH second round pick for QB. Better? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Integrity28 Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 8 minutes ago, FidelioJet said: This is absolutely a blow up project. Should have been done two years ago. Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app It basically was. Recall Rex/Idzik leaving a roster of sh*t. Look at the turnover since then. "Blowing it up" is fun to say, but makes no real sense and ignores realities of how many quality players can be added year to year. Mac's now got 2 draft classes, the first of which should begin influencing who we're going to be next year. Hope for the 2nd class to do the same. This years rookie class will take time. The key to this offseason are the vets we can cut without huge cap hits. That gives us a chance to sign guys with good football ahead, not behind, them. Paifvthat with draft classes and that is your rebuild. Not whatever magical process some of you have in mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Integrity28 Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 9 minutes ago, Dinamite said: This is true. I agree with you that the last 2 drafts provide some base, and smart FA signings of 2nd contract players is consistent with a rebuild. The point I was trying to make is that given Mac/Bowles may be on a "prove it" year, on fear is that they abandon the blueprint and sign 3rd contract guys and names in lieu of young ones, trading draft picks (e.g., Romo), etc. The 3rd year, if we're being realistic, was going to be a prove-if year from the day they were hired. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UnitedWhofans Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 Rebuild but be smart about it. Use FA money wisely Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe W. Namath Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 Just because they rebuild and have a bad season record wise does not mean anyone has to get fired. Look at the browns. They were 1-15 but played hard and were scrappy and competetive. Bowles and Mac will survive with a season like that. The problem is this team gave up. They will not survive a 1-15 season with the effort and horrible gameday coaching we got this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Integrity28 Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 7 minutes ago, dbatesman said: Targeting 2nd contract players is the exact opposite of speeding up a rebuild. It's not though. Not in the context of having 3 draft classes fostered, and cap space you have to allocate. 2nd contract players are under 27. Look at the average age of playoff teams. Team would consist of guys ranging between 1-6 years experience. Rather than having all these 10+ Year vets. I'm beginning to wonder if you guys realize that rebuilding is a PR term, and what we actually need is to get young and more skilled. 3 draft classes and spending on guys under 27 who are proven accomplished that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FidelioJet Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 1 minute ago, Integrity28 said: It basically was. Recall Rex/Idzik leaving a roster of sh*t. Look at the turnover since then. "Blowing it up" is fun to say, but makes no real sense and ignores realities of how many quality players can be added year to year. Mac's now got 2 draft classes, the first of which should begin influencing who we're going to be next year. Hope for the 2nd class to do the same. This years rookie class will take time. The key to this offseason are the vets we can cut without huge cap hits. That gives us a chance to sign guys with good football ahead, not behind, them. Paifvthat with draft classes and that is your rebuild. Not whatever magical process some of you have in mind. Actually Blowing it up is a real thing...and we didn't do that two years ago. We brought in high-priced, aging veterans, traded draft picks for players on their last years and over-paid for some pieces with a false assumption of being competitive. We did quite the opposite of blowing it up. Blowing it up is exactly what they need to do now - We need to trade/cut/not-resign - much of the roster - Revis, Mangold, Marshall, Richardson, Forte, Giacomini and others all need to go..Purge anyone over 30 and any bad actors. Start over! Blowing it up means making decisions with the long term instead of short term interest. i.e Mangold is still better than any center we'll have but he should be gone. Bottom line - If you're not part of the future then you shouldn't be part of the present! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bostonmajet Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 I don't understand people. What is the difference between blowing up and rebuilding (assuming FO doesn't change)? You want everyone gone? Including Leo, Q? You want all 53 players to be rookies? So, does blowing it up mean that you select a QB in the 1st even if it is HUGE reach? So, people are unhappy that we did a reach with Hack int he 2nd, but we are okay just drafting a QB in the first? Yeah, blow it up. We have some decent young players - Leo, Q, Anderson, Lee (I know most people hate him), etc, plus some good vets like Carpenter, Harris, etc. Good thing we have 73 draft picks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Integrity28 Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 19 minutes ago, FidelioJet said: Actually Blowing it up is a real thing...and we didn't do that two years ago. We brought in high-priced, aging veterans, traded draft picks for players on their last years and over-paid for some pieces with a false assumption of being competitive. We did quite the opposite of blowing it up. Blowing it up is exactly what they need to do now - We need to trade/cut/not-resign - much of the roster - Revis, Mangold, Marshall, Richardson, Forte, Giacomini and others all need to go..Purge anyone over 30 and any bad actors. Start over! Blowing it up means making decisions with the long term instead of short term interest. i.e Mangold is still better than any center we'll have but he should be gone. Bottom line - If you're not part of the future then you shouldn't be part of the present! Read what I wrote. I'm not going to debate semantics of 'blow up' label. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
varjet Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 Of the veterans, some can still play some, and some are done. Considering all of the injuries this year, starting out with some of the vets makes sense. To me the hardest decision is B Marshall If Decker is fully healthy, I think you move on from BM. If not, keep for another year. Need 1 not 2 of them. Breno, Revis and likely Gilcrist are done. Mangold can stay at lower cost. Harris maybe as well. Would keep Clady too if healthy and cheap. Trade SR. There is a lot of roster to replace here. There are no long term builds in the NFL. Either 1 or 2 years. The Jets are a 2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scoop24 Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 Until you secure the QB position it's always a rebuild Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FidelioJet Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 3 minutes ago, Integrity28 said: Read what I wrote. I'm not going to debate semantics of 'blow up' label. I wasn't debating the term blow up...but rather the idea that it's what we've doing the past two years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shawn306 Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 I think it a bit of both The OL needs an overhaul. Shell and Carpenter stay, Mangold can stay at a reduced rate. I want to see a heavy emphasis on the OL in the draft. The defense needs to either go to a 4-3 if Richardson stays or a 3-4 if he goes. The entire secondary needs to be rebuilt. If Revis is serious about retiring as a Jet take the payout and discuss moving to safety. So to me it probably a bit of both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tinstar Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 Here's a question I was curious about . Would it be worth it to bring Nick Mangold back at a reduce rate and move him to RG for a yr or 2 more ? Ah, never mind, let's get rid of all these tired old guys Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rangerous Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 1 hour ago, Integrity28 said: They've been adding players via draft for 2 years. This notion that a "proper" rebuild isn't happening, and may not be able to happen, is sort of absurd. Every year is a rebuild until it it isn't. The veteran contracts given out haven't been prohibitive to adding lots of young players. By year 3 we should finally see worth of first drafts players. Old vets can be cut loose with minimal cap hit. Jets are primed as one of top teams with space to clear based on what I've read. We target 2nd contract players and we can speed up this so-called rebuild quickly. yeah, what does proper rebuild mean? are they to get rid of any free agents and only play their draft picks or udfa's? i don't think that will work out. plus saying blow up the team really means launching a handful of players. every team chruns about 10 players each season. the only position that determines if this is a blow up or a rebuild is if they get the qb situation straightened out. if they trot out petty or hack next season then it is clearly a blow up. if they sign a kirk cousins then it a seriously competitive rebuid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shawn306 Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 12 minutes ago, Tinstar said: Here's a question I was curious about . Would it be worth it to bring Nick Mangold back at a reduce rate and move him to RG for a yr or 2 more ? Ah, never mind, let's get rid of all these tired old guys I would. The guy can still play. Maybe a one year or two year deal at a reduced rate. I am not buying Wesley Johnson as a starting center. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bostonmajet Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 25 minutes ago, shawn306 said: I think it a bit of both The OL needs an overhaul. Shell and Carpenter stay, Mangold can stay at a reduced rate. I want to see a heavy emphasis on the OL in the draft. The defense needs to either go to a 4-3 if Richardson stays or a 3-4 if he goes. The entire secondary needs to be rebuilt. If Revis is serious about retiring as a Jet take the payout and discuss moving to safety. So to me it probably a bit of both. The problem is that the 3 are DEs, that is the problem we had when they tried to play all 3, so unless you are going to implement the new Triangle formation, only 2 are going to be in their ideal position. Yesterday, they played them straight across, so DE, DE, DE. It worked ok against buffalo, but you really want a big DT in their. Also, Sheldon is going to want to be paid. Once they signed Mo, Sheldon was gone IMO. Clady, even at a discounted rate is still a walking injury - can't stay healthy. Even if Mangold stays, you have to sign his replacement. Shell looks promising, but still should have someone to compete with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thadude Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 2 minutes ago, shawn306 said: I would. The guy can still play. Maybe a one year or two year deal at a reduced rate. I am not buying Wesley Johnson as a starting center. Mangold needs to accept a huge paycut to stay. I agree about Wesley Johnson he stinks but there are guys available in FA and the draft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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