JetsFanatic Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 8 minutes ago, The Crusher said: Keeping Todd Bowles as the head coach in my opinion is the closest thing a franchise can do to purposefully tank. You mean like 2015 when we won 10 games with Ryan Fitzpatrick? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j4jets Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 1 hour ago, CrazyCarl40 said: Fitz made 7 million last season. Try again. Even this ^ douche is facepalming your comment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMan77 Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 Still no word on the guaranteed money? That'll make or break this deal... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 1 hour ago, smaxor5 said: What if a guy takes 3 years to develop which is exactly what Winters did? You're telling me with a straight face you wouldn't ridicule the sh*t out of that extension before this year started? That's a load of sh*t. It's all relative, because in mid-January of 2016 Winters wouldn't have cost anywhere near $8m/yr. Maccagnan and Davidson are expected to know better than to keep waiting for the team's young players to finish playing out their rookie contracts before making realistic efforts to re-sign (or trade when their value was higher): Snacks, Mo, Sheldon, Winters, '15 mid-season Fitzpatrick (since they liked him so much). I'm fully expecting to see this pattern repeat with Enunwa, but I'll give him full props if he gets that one done early. Whether or not I personally ridicule something at the time is irrelevant; what's relevant is doing the right thing. Hey, at the time I ridiculed the Pouha extension at $2m per when it was announced. That doesn't stop it from proving to have been the correct move. Unlike Pouha, though, Winters was actually the team's starter at the time so it's not like it was some major stretch. So what if he took until the end of 3 years to develop? He was locked up for 4 years so after 3 years is when he should have done something with him. His play in 2015 was certainly plenty enough of a step forward to take on a low-risk/high-upside contract on his own player if he had any thoughts of extending him later on. Hell, he could have even made serious efforts to extend Winters while still in the early parts of the '16 season when Winters risked injury before cashing in. Not for nothing, but Maccagnan's also supposed to realize not just what he's got, but what the upcoming FA market is at that position before he's bent over a barrel. That's his job. Name a player Maccagnan has successfully done something with before playing his final game under his prior contract. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jet Nut Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 10 hours ago, Powpow said: This was a STUPID signing at this price. STUPID. Winters gets run over more than the monks in Grand Theft Auto. He's nothing more than an average middle of the pack guard. 8 Mill per for 4 years is an absurdity. GOURANGA! Proving once again that the position fans know the least about is the OL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyCarl40 Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 1 hour ago, NYJ37/12 said: But he was paid 12 mil. Thats the only way he was signing what is essentially a one year deal. That is the deal you should be complaining about. Why? Are we just going to forget the fact that Macc wanted to give him a three year deal worth 18 million in guarantees? The contract Fitz signed actually helped save Macc from himself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 14 minutes ago, Jet Nut said: Proving once again that the position fans know the least about is the OL. It's just an ok move, and it seems better only because of the desperate situation he's allowed himself to get into as he starts his 3rd year here. Not to mention Winters is now getting credit for being better than any Jets fan ever believed he was, and what's funny is the reason/justification for this newly-higher opinion is the amount he just received. Had we lost him to FA to the tune of half what he just got, the same people would be decrying it as no great loss. The big desire from everyone was to upgrade the OL (aside from Carpenter, who's fine and locked in here for a while longer). Not to perceive making big upgrades by giving the same players big raises. Winters isn't the 5th-best OG in the NFL, and the main reason he's getting paid like one now is a lack of foresight from our GM and cap/contract queen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saul Goodman Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 1 hour ago, BigRy56 said: How many offensive linemen have we let go/refused to sign, only to watch them go on and find success with another team while we try to replace them? Slauson - had to replace him with Carpenter Austin Howard - had to replace him with Giacomini/everybody else that has been at the RT revolving door since then That's 2 right off the top of my head. We let those guys go and had to then allocate extra time/resources to replace them while they are quality offensive linemen for other teams. Eventually, you need to start locking down home-grown talent instead of chasing your tail over and over again. Maccagnan made the right move locking down Winters (who's 25 and gets better every year) to a reasonable contract so we can focus on filling the other holes on this team. To your point, Aboushi and Vlad are both starting for other teams as well (Houston and Baltimore, respectively). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYJ37/12 Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 5 minutes ago, CrazyCarl40 said: Why? Are we just going to forget the fact that Macc wanted to give him a three year deal worth 18 million in guarantees? The contract Fitz signed actually helped save Macc from himself. That deal would have paid him the same amount in year one and made him a 6 mil. starter in year two. Someone is getting that 6 to play here this year, what's the difference? It doesn't matter either way Carl, the contract is signed by Winters. You don't have to like it, but you will need to accept it. Let's see what the actual numbers are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetknowledge Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 4 year 32 million Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SMC Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 Winters would've signed with the Giants if he had hit free agency. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyCarl40 Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 17 minutes ago, NYJ37/12 said: That deal would have paid him the same amount in year one and made him a 6 mil. starter in year two. Someone is getting that 6 to play here this year, what's the difference? It doesn't matter either way Carl, the contract is signed by Winters. You don't have to like it, but you will need to accept it. Let's see what the actual numbers are. There's a big difference but you obviously can't or refuse to understand it. If you like the way things have been run the last two years, I can't help you. It's not been all that good. This adds to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanadaSteve Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 10 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said: If he'd hit FA and anyone else signed him to $8m/yr you'd all be laughing at how ridiculous that was. This is a player that should have been locked up a year ago if they had any idea they wanted to keep him long term. Since his play wasn't night & day different from 2015-2016, it shows he did have this interest, and this lack of foresight again shows his incompetence. There's a 0% chance he'd have cost anywhere near $8m per in January of 2016. Some of you are so in love with anything Maccagnan does you will applaud any move he makes. A day ago exactly nobody here thought Winters was one of the league's best guards or worth more than half what he just got. Ahhh HA! It wasn't CrazyCarl, it was Sperm who said he should have been locked up a year or so ago. I knew it was one of you guys! Okay, carry on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Crusher Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 1 hour ago, JetsFanatic said: You mean like 2015 when we won 10 games with Ryan Fitzpatrick? That was the start of it for sure. Next step was not recognizing the perfect storm of easy schedule and lack of injuries. Followed by him announcing Fitz as the starter before the guy was even on the team. Obviously Bowles felt he could do that every year with Fitz because history, one year rather than the previous ten told him so. This year he got the real Fitz, couple tough injuries and Revis turned into a pumpkin before our very own eyes. A real coach, cough, cough, Bellichek would have seen it coming with both Revis and Fitz. Then Bowkes actually digressed this year as far as game management. I mean damn dude, field goal attempts down by 4o+? Guy stopped coaching for the team and coaching for his job mid season. For next year I'm way too dumb, jaded, fat and tired to believe he will win anymore than 2-3 games with the current QBs. That is were we MUST be to give a shot at San Darnold. Of course we could go get Glennon or another back up some Jet fans have fellated into a savior and go 7-9 or 8-8. But if Woody or his baby brother wants what is best long term we sit pat with our lame duck QBs and let Todd bring us home a loser. By loser I mean winner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j4jets Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 So without going through 11 pages of random rants, can some give me the skinny on contract details? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UnitedWhofans Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 10 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said: He is paid to know better. It is obvious he should have been extended earlier if they liked him half this much. They didn't suddenly get a $30m stiffy for Brian Winters after his injury. Open your eyes. A smart GM doesn't first wait until a player's contract has expired to extend him. He does it when there's a year left on his old deal, unless he's literally trying to pay as much as possible for the exact same players. He could take a dump on your car and you'd applaud it as a great move. Hands up anybody who last year at this time thought Winters should be extended? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanadaSteve Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 QUESTION: Why does everyone flip-flop on what they want this team to do? We draft a guy, develop him, then let him go, the response is "WHY DON'T WE EVER KEEP OUR YOUNG TALENT!" We draft a guy, develop him, and then pay him, and the response is "WHY DID WE PAY SO MUCH MONEY FOR THAT CRAPPY PLAYER!" Seriously, we do not even know what the breakdown of the contract is. The money could be more front loaded to get us through the next couple of years. Then, if he is not improving to the level warranted, he might be cuttable after 2 seasons. Why don't we all just actually wait until the full contract details are available on OVERTHECAP. We also have over $60 million in cuttable contracts with as little as $5.5 million in dead money in positions that all need upgrading anyway. Lets see what happens and start complaining in May when FA and the draft are over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UnitedWhofans Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 Just now, CanadaSteve said: QUESTION: Why does everyone flip-flop on what they want this team to do? We draft a guy, develop him, then let him go, the response is "WHY DON'T WE EVER KEEP OUR YOUNG TALENT!" We draft a guy, develop him, and then pay him, and the response is "WHY DID WE PAY SO MUCH MONEY FOR THAT CRAPPY PLAYER!" Seriously, we do not even know what the breakdown of the contract is. The money could be more front loaded to get us through the next couple of years. Then, if he is not improving to the level warranted, he might be cuttable after 2 seasons. Why don't we all just actually wait until the full contract details are available on OVERTHECAP. We also have over $60 million in cuttable contracts with as little as $5.5 million in dead money in positions that all need upgrading anyway. Lets see what happens and start complaining in May when FA and the draft are over. What they want it premium talent at less money. IN essence, they are cheap. Sperm just has it out for Maccagnan Retroactively calling for extensions and trades is not fair in the complaint department. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanadaSteve Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 8 minutes ago, The Crusher said: A real coach, cough, cough, Bellichek would have seen it coming with both Revis and Fitz. Then Bowkes actually digressed this year as far as game management. I mean damn dude, field goal attempts down by 4o+? Guy stopped coaching for the team and coaching for his job mid season. While I am not sold on Bowles, it is unfair to compare him to Bill Bellichek after having Tom Brady for the past 12 years. Let's compare him to head coach Bellichek in his first couple of seasons in Cleveland when he had no talent there..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
section314 Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 8 minutes ago, The Crusher said: That was the start of it for sure. Next step was not recognizing the perfect storm of easy schedule and lack of injuries. Followed by him announcing Fitz as the starter before the guy was even on the team. Obviously Bowles felt he could do that every year with Fitz because history, one year rather than the previous ten told him so. This year he got the real Fitz, couple tough injuries and Revis turned into a pumpkin before our very own eyes. A real coach, cough, cough, Bellichek would have seen it coming with both Revis and Fitz. Then Bowkes actually digressed this year as far as game management. I mean damn dude, field goal attempts down by 4o+? Guy stopped coaching for the team and coaching for his job mid season. For next year I'm way too dumb, jaded, fat and tired to believe he will win anymore than 2-3 games with the current QBs. That is were we MUST be to give a shot at San Darnold. Of course we could go get Glennon or another back up some Jet fans have fellated into a savior and go 7-9 or 8-8. But if Woody or his baby brother wants what is best long term we sit pat with our lame duck QBs and let Todd bring us home a loser. By loser I mean winner. 8 minutes ago, The Crusher said: That was the start of it for sure. Next step was not recognizing the perfect storm of easy schedule and lack of injuries. Followed by him announcing Fitz as the starter before the guy was even on the team. Obviously Bowles felt he could do that every year with Fitz because history, one year rather than the previous ten told him so. This year he got the real Fitz, couple tough injuries and Revis turned into a pumpkin before our very own eyes. A real coach, cough, cough, Bellichek would have seen it coming with both Revis and Fitz. Then Bowkes actually digressed this year as far as game management. I mean damn dude, field goal attempts down by 4o+? Guy stopped coaching for the team and coaching for his job mid season. For next year I'm way too dumb, jaded, fat and tired to believe he will win anymore than 2-3 games with the current QBs. That is were we MUST be to give a shot at San Darnold. Of course we could go get Glennon or another back up some Jet fans have fellated into a savior and go 7-9 or 8-8. But if Woody or his baby brother wants what is best long term we sit pat with our lame duck QBs and let Todd bring us home a loser. By loser I mean winner. He did...that's why that ass*ole #24 ended up back with the Jets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JetsFanatic Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 Just now, CanadaSteve said: While I am not sold on Bowles, it is unfair to compare him to Bill Bellichek after having Tom Brady for the past 12 years. Let's compare him to head coach Bellichek in his first couple of seasons in Cleveland when he had no talent there..... You are correct! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UnitedWhofans Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 Rich CiminiVerified account @RichCimini 14h14 hours ago Brian Winters deal averages about $7.0M per year, I'm told. Falls in line with guard market. Key will be gtd $ + structure. #Jets It's NOT EVEN AN OVERPAY! Complaining should logicially stop right now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYJ37/12 Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 26 minutes ago, CrazyCarl40 said: There's a big difference but you obviously can't or refuse to understand it. If you like the way things have been run the last two years, I can't help you. It's not been all that good. This adds to it. Now we get the insults, nice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcass10 Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 Re-signed a promising 25 year old to a 4 year deal that falls in line with market value? Not sure how anyone can complain about this, although, I'm sure they'll try. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UnitedWhofans Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 Just now, jcass10 said: Re-signed a promising 25 year old to a 4 year deal that falls in line with market value? Not sure how anyone can complain about this, although, I'm sure they'll try. Yes they have because apparently "the big picture" is bad. Even if Winters breaks an arm next year and can't play again, it's still the right move. You can't predict injuries Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 27 minutes ago, CanadaSteve said: Ahhh HA! It wasn't CrazyCarl, it was Sperm who said he should have been locked up a year or so ago. I knew it was one of you guys! Okay, carry on. AHA!! Maccagnan didn't lock him up earlier, therefore it's a provable fact that nobody could have, because nobody ever does that. Every team waits until its young draftees finish up their prior contracts before getting serious about extending them. 15 minutes ago, UnitedWhofans said: Hands up anybody who last year at this time thought Winters should be extended? I'm perfectly ok with the Jets failing to extend Winters earlier if they had no thoughts of extending him in the future. It's not ok to wait this long and then pay top dollar for a just-ok guard after sitting on his hands with him for the prior year. If you want to extend him, do it before he's played his final game of his rookie contract (or RFA tag year). Waiting, only to pay top guard money to a just-ok guard, is asinine. They are paid to have better judgment and foresight than this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbatesman Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 11 minutes ago, UnitedWhofans said: Rich CiminiVerified account @RichCimini 14h14 hours ago Brian Winters deal averages about $7.0M per year, I'm told. Falls in line with guard market. Key will be gtd $ + structure. #Jets It's NOT EVEN AN OVERPAY! Complaining should logicially stop right now Just because it's in line with the guard market doesn't mean it's not an overpay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UnitedWhofans Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 Just now, Sperm Edwards said: I'm perfectly ok with the Jets failing to extend Winters earlier if they had no thoughts of extending him in the future. It's not ok to wait this long and then pay top dollar for a just-ok guard after sitting on his hands with him for the prior year. If you want to extend him, do it before he's played his final game of his rookie contract (or RFA tag year). Waiting, only to pay top-5 guard money to a just-ok guard, is asinine. They are paid to have better judgment and foresight than this. 1. Did you actually say last year that Winters should be extended? Because saying that you would be okay now doesn't really count. 2. Cimini just said he falls in market price. 3. I said this a while back, Alan Faneca was paid 8m per year 8 years ago. If you follow the track of inflation, 7m per year is not top 5 guard money, at least it wont be after this free agency period. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UnitedWhofans Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 Rich CiminiVerified account @RichCimini 3m3 minutes ago Brian Winters contract: 4 yrs, $29M, including $15M, per @DanGrazianoESPN. It's the 10th-largest guarantee for a guard, per ESPN data. #Jets So it's not even top 5 in guaranteed money for a guard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UnitedWhofans Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 1 minute ago, dbatesman said: Just because it's in line with the guard market doesn't mean it's not an overpay. IN a vacuum, it's probably a bit of an overpay. But in the cash-rich NFL, it's not Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flgreen Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 8 minutes ago, UnitedWhofans said: Rich CiminiVerified account @RichCimini 3m3 minutes ago Brian Winters contract: 4 yrs, $29M, including $15M, per @DanGrazianoESPN. It's the 10th-largest guarantee for a guard, per ESPN data. #Jets So it's not even top 5 in guaranteed money for a guard. Based on that, depending on structure, they can probably walk away in two years with out major damage. Better then average RG, a bit above market. Sounds fair Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
varjet Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 This would appear to be the 2017 market price for a slightly above average starting guard. Look at what the Bucs paid this Sweezy guy last year. The Cap went up 10%. If Mac can tie up Johnson at C for something fair, and a combination of Shell and Qvale can work at RT, and he pulls something out of his hat for LT (Ijalana, Clady on prove it deal, draft pick), Macc could potentially fund a decent OL at not an extraordinary cost. The key for him is to draft well and keep the pipeline coming. The better the draft picks, the fewer big contracts that people question. But if the Jets want to TRY and develop a QB in 2017 (whether Hack or a draft pick), they need an OL to do it. Prescott would not have been Prescott 2016 without the Dallas OL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 1 minute ago, UnitedWhofans said: 1. Did you actually say last year that Winters should be extended? Because saying that you would be okay now doesn't really count. 2. Cimini just said he falls in market price. 3. I said this a while back, Alan Faneca was paid 8m per year 8 years ago. If you follow the track of inflation, 7m per year is not top 5 guard money, at least it wont be after this free agency period. Did you actually ever say you wanted Winters extended at this rate? Did anybody, ever, until the Jets did it? Of course not. Also if he's the best in this FA period, then nobody will exceed this amount and the top tier won't change at all after this signing. Duh. #math Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyCarl40 Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 22 minutes ago, NYJ37/12 said: Now we get the insults, nice. Oh jeez. Where did I insult you? Come on with this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flgreen Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 23 minutes ago, NYJ37/12 said: Now we get the insults, nice. Your actually offended by that? MY Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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