Grade the Pick @6: Patrick Mahomes, QB, Texas Tech

[bealeb319]

Mahomes is likely to be gone before the first pick of the 2nd round.  And you want him in the very late 3rd round.  /lol

I didn't say I wanted him at all I said I don't think he is worth a thought for us until late in the third. We already have two developmental qbs on our roster.

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[bealeb319]

If Mac thinks he has the potential to be a franchise qb then why the hell not. Its not like we have anything to lose. 

Mac thinks or thought hackenburg had or has the potential to be a franchise qb

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[Warfish]

13 minutes ago, bealeb319 said:

 

I didn't say I wanted him at all I said I don't think he is worth a thought for us until late in the third. We already have two developmental qbs on our roster.

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Except we really don't.

Petty showed very little last year, and any expectation that he will blossom into anything more than a #3 is projection.  I wanted to see him play more than anyone, he did, he didn't show us anything to warrant material continued investment (as a #1 QB prospect).

And Hack....well, I'll agree he's clearly developmental.  As to being anything more than that, ever, we'll have to see since he was so completely sheltered last year by the team despite his 2nd round selection.  Like everyone, I hope he's grown tremendously since his lolworthy preseason appearance.

I just cannot fathom the ongoing massive undervaluation of the QB (and the Offense as a whole) amongst Jets Fan.  Ready to punt on the position completely for a long-shot like Hack so we can draft yet more Safties or D-Linemen, I'll never ever understand that kind of logic.

When you have a Tom Brady, or a Ben Rothlisburger, you can get picky about draftign QB's.  When you're us, you have to do what it takes to get a legit guy, and today, we do not have a legit guy on the roster, we have one guy with a small chance (Hack) to years from now maybe be a legit guy, at best.

Make no mistake, we're right next to Cleveland for the worst QB franchise of the past 20 years.  

 

[bealeb319]

Except we really don't.
Petty showed very little last year, and any expectation that he will blossom into anything more than a #3 is projection.  I wanted to see him play more than anyone, he did, he didn't show us anything to warrant material continued investment (as a #1 QB prospect).
And Hack....well, I'll agree he's clearly developmental.  As to being anything more than that, ever, we'll have to see since he was so completely sheltered last year by the team despite his 2nd round selection.  Like everyone, I hope he's grown tremendously since his lolworthy preseason appearance.
I just cannot fathom the ongoing massive undervaluation of the QB (and the Offense as a whole) amongst Jets Fan.  Ready to punt on the position completely for a long-shot like Hack so we can draft yet more Safties or D-Linemen, I'll never ever understand that kind of logic.
When you have a Tom Brady, or a Ben Rothlisburger, you can get picky about draftign QB's.  When you're us, you have to do what it takes to get a legit guy, and today, we do not have a legit guy on the roster, we have one guy with a small chance (Hack) to years from now maybe be a legit guy, at best.
Make no mistake, we're right next to Cleveland for the worst QB franchise of the past 20 years.  
 

I don't want us to ignore the qb position but I also don't think we need to reach (again) for a qb who we would have to baby into the position just to have a chance of him maybe developing into something serviceable. I would rather us take another d linemen who could come in and play right away for us at a professional level than waste a pick on a guy who should go two rounds later just because he is listed as a qb.

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[bealeb319]

Except we really don't.
Petty showed very little last year, and any expectation that he will blossom into anything more than a #3 is projection.  I wanted to see him play more than anyone, he did, he didn't show us anything to warrant material continued investment (as a #1 QB prospect).
And Hack....well, I'll agree he's clearly developmental.  As to being anything more than that, ever, we'll have to see since he was so completely sheltered last year by the team despite his 2nd round selection.  Like everyone, I hope he's grown tremendously since his lolworthy preseason appearance.
I just cannot fathom the ongoing massive undervaluation of the QB (and the Offense as a whole) amongst Jets Fan.  Ready to punt on the position completely for a long-shot like Hack so we can draft yet more Safties or D-Linemen, I'll never ever understand that kind of logic.
When you have a Tom Brady, or a Ben Rothlisburger, you can get picky about draftign QB's.  When you're us, you have to do what it takes to get a legit guy, and today, we do not have a legit guy on the roster, we have one guy with a small chance (Hack) to years from now maybe be a legit guy, at best.
Make no mistake, we're right next to Cleveland for the worst QB franchise of the past 20 years.  
 

I don't want us to ignore the qb position but I also don't think we need to reach (again) for a qb who we would have to baby into the position just to have a chance of him maybe developing into something serviceable. I would rather us take another d linemen who could come in and play right away for us at a professional level than waste a pick on a guy who should go two rounds later just because he is listed as a qb.

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[bealeb319]

Except we really don't.
Petty showed very little last year, and any expectation that he will blossom into anything more than a #3 is projection.  I wanted to see him play more than anyone, he did, he didn't show us anything to warrant material continued investment (as a #1 QB prospect).
And Hack....well, I'll agree he's clearly developmental.  As to being anything more than that, ever, we'll have to see since he was so completely sheltered last year by the team despite his 2nd round selection.  Like everyone, I hope he's grown tremendously since his lolworthy preseason appearance.
I just cannot fathom the ongoing massive undervaluation of the QB (and the Offense as a whole) amongst Jets Fan.  Ready to punt on the position completely for a long-shot like Hack so we can draft yet more Safties or D-Linemen, I'll never ever understand that kind of logic.
When you have a Tom Brady, or a Ben Rothlisburger, you can get picky about draftign QB's.  When you're us, you have to do what it takes to get a legit guy, and today, we do not have a legit guy on the roster, we have one guy with a small chance (Hack) to years from now maybe be a legit guy, at best.
Make no mistake, we're right next to Cleveland for the worst QB franchise of the past 20 years.  
 

I don't want us to ignore the qb position but I also don't think we need to reach (again) for a qb who we would have to baby into the position just to have a chance of him maybe developing into something serviceable. I would rather us take another d linemen who could come in and play right away for us at a professional level than waste a pick on a guy who should go two rounds later just because he is listed as a qb.

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[varjet]

NFL.com allows you to look at each position drafted in each year.

Basically, over the last 10 years or so some very good QBs were picked top 3 or so, and then QBs get picked lower (sometimes way lower) in the 1st and 2nd round.

There are also QBs picked in lower rounds obviously.  That being said, it did not seem like the hit rate was that much better picking a QB late in the first round then in the 2nd round (which is probably where Macc got the idea to draft Hack in the second).

For example, the list of QBs picked later in the 1st round and the 2nd round over the last 10 years is:

Later 1st: Lynch, Manziel, Bridgewater, Manuel, Tannehill (8), Weeden, Locker, Gabbert, Ponder, Tebow, Sanchez (5), Freeman, Flacco, Brady Quinn, Leinart (10), Cutler (11).

2nd Round: Hack, Carr, Garropolo, Geno, Dalton, Kaepernick, Clausen, Pat White, Brohm, Henne, Kolb, Beck, Stanton, Kellen Clemens.

Based on a feel test, I would say that:

Mahomes is a late 1st round QB

Trubisky and Watson are mid-first rounders, but could be reached for.

The late 1st round QBs don't look that different than the 2nd rounds-it all a matter of scouting and coaching.

Understanding that the Hack pick could end up looking very bad if he proves completely inept, its not like teams pick QBs in the late 2nd round and find guaranteed success.  Plenty of the unsuccessful late 1st round./2nd round QBs were picked by successful GMs who are still gainfully employed.

[prime21]

I think I would literally shed some tears and wonder why I have spent 48 wasted years with this team. 

[Warfish]

21 minutes ago, bealeb319 said:

I don't want us to ignore the qb position but I also don't think we need to reach (again) for a qb who we would have to baby into the position just to have a chance of him maybe developing into something serviceable.

Help me understand this, please.

Hack was expected, Pre-Draft, to be a mid-rounder.  

This year, Watson, Trubisky are both considered mid-1st-round prospects.

I hardly see how picking a QB at a spot they're ranked at is a reach.

21 minutes ago, bealeb319 said:

I would rather us take another d linemen who could come in and play right away for us at a professional level than waste a pick on a guy who should go two rounds later just because he is listed as a qb.

Except we're going to (or should) play hack this year.  If he busts, we need another prospect in the pipeline, so we don;t have to play a draft pick right off in 2018.

[Larz]

you need to include a choice of ; LOL, so jetsy !

[Lupz27]

Born to be a star in NY!

 

[rangerous]

so now they draft a guy from a chuck and duck school who hasn't played under center.  they already have one in petty with at least some pro game experience.  6 is too high.

[johnnyjet]

No,way we should be picking any of these shot in the dark qbs. This year.  We still don't know what we have from last year. 

[varjet]

27 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Help me understand this, please.

Hack was expected, Pre-Draft, to be a mid-rounder.  

This year, Watson, Trubisky are both considered mid-1st-round prospects.

I hardly see how picking a QB at a spot they're ranked at is a reach.

Except we're going to (or should) play hack this year.  If he busts, we need another prospect in the pipeline, so we don;t have to play a draft pick right off in 2018.

Hack and Watson are mid-1st rounders.

They have similarities to many of the QBs I listed above.  They do not resemble top 5 picks.

All of those QBs were good college QBs, and most had flaws translating to the NFL.  

[19andOhWait]

rich man's version of Manziel, no thanks at 6 

2nd/3rd round then we're talking 

[adb280z]

7 hours ago, section314 said:

Hack was picked 51st, Manuel like 20. Not even close. And, by the way, Hack can play, Manuel is a bum.

What evidence do you have that Hack can play?  He couldn't even play week 17.

[fltflo]

All these QBs including Hack, how many National Championship have they taken there teams to ?
There is only one QB pick at 6 and that is Deshon Watson.
Is he a sure thing, of course not. Yet one thing we know for sure and that is, the kid is a winner.
Jets need to start gambling and start rolling the dice and stop playing the penny slots with the most important position on the field.
Give me a QB that has already proven he knows how to win as opposed to one who has potential to do so.


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[Warfish]

3 hours ago, varjet said:

Hack and Watson are mid-1st rounders.

They have similarities to many of the QBs I listed above.  They do not resemble top 5 picks.

All of those QBs were good college QBs, and most had flaws translating to the NFL.  

What fantasy world are you in were Hack was a mid-first rounder?

He was generally considered a 3rd rounder at the time of last year's draft.  Maybe a late 2nd, maybe an early 4th.

No one, literally, had Hack rated a first round talent.

[ljr]

5 hours ago, Warfish said:

Except we really don't.

Petty showed very little last year, and any expectation that he will blossom into anything more than a #3 is projection.  I wanted to see him play more than anyone, he did, he didn't show us anything to warrant material continued investment (as a #1 QB prospect).

And Hack....well, I'll agree he's clearly developmental.  As to being anything more than that, ever, we'll have to see since he was so completely sheltered last year by the team despite his 2nd round selection.  Like everyone, I hope he's grown tremendously since his lolworthy preseason appearance.

I just cannot fathom the ongoing massive undervaluation of the QB (and the Offense as a whole) amongst Jets Fan.  Ready to punt on the position completely for a long-shot like Hack so we can draft yet more Safties or D-Linemen, I'll never ever understand that kind of logic.

When you have a Tom Brady, or a Ben Rothlisburger, you can get picky about draftign QB's.  When you're us, you have to do what it takes to get a legit guy, and today, we do not have a legit guy on the roster, we have one guy with a small chance (Hack) to years from now maybe be a legit guy, at best.

Make no mistake, we're right next to Cleveland for the worst QB franchise of the past 20 years.  

 

 I'd change that to 19 years ... '98 was the Vinny T season that would skew us up a couple spots

[varjet]

24 minutes ago, Warfish said:

What fantasy world are you in were Hack was a mid-first rounder?

He was generally considered a 3rd rounder at the time of last year's draft.  Maybe a late 2nd, maybe an early 4th.

No one, literally, had Hack rated a first round talent.

I meant Trubisky and Watson.  Apologies.  

Its amazing how many good QBs have been playing over 10 years. 

[varjet]

2 hours ago, fltflo said:

All these QBs including Hack, how many National Championship have they taken there teams to ?
There is only one QB pick at 6 and that is Deshon Watson.
Is he a sure thing, of course not. Yet one thing we know for sure and that is, the kid is a winner.
Jets need to start gambling and start rolling the dice and stop playing the penny slots with the most important position on the field.
Give me a QB that has already proven he knows how to win as opposed to one who has potential to do so.


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Many of the great NFL QBs were not college champions.  

Many college champion QBs were not successful in the NFL.  

[ATX Jetsfan]

I like Mahomes. At 6, no way. 

[goober36]

I can only laugh


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[Gas2No99]

picking Mahomes at #6 implies he can start game 1 of next season. If not, then the idiot who made the selection has earned an unemployment check for the foreseeable future. 

[Fantasy Island]

It beats picking a DL or DB

[Mogglez]

10 minutes ago, Fantasy Island said:

It beats picking a DL or DB

No. It really doesnt.

[Mogglez]

I'd be skipping the Lexapro, Alcohol, and Klonopin cocktail from the previous Jonathan Allen thread and jumping on the Bleach Margarita bus.

[Mogglez]

I want names of the people who voted for this in the range of (A)--->(C-).  I wanna know who actually believes that picking Mahomes with the 6th overall pick would be anything short of a failed abortion.

[Sarge4Tide]

5 hours ago, Mogglez said:

I want names of the people who voted for this in the range of (A)--->(C-).  I wanna know who actually believes that picking Mahomes with the 6th overall pick would be anything short of a failed abortion.

Yeah, because only negativity, cynicism,  and prepubescent drama are allowed on this forum. Most of those people who think it would be a good pick are probably reluctant to post in the thread because they don't want to deal with the moronic responses they'd get. 

[JetFaninMI]

Reach pick. We all know the Jets won't take a QB at 6. They will play it safe and take Moon Over My Hammies Lattimore. If they do take a QB it should be Watson.

[Lupz27]

6 hours ago, Mogglez said:

I want names of the people who voted for this in the range of (A)--->(C-).  I wanna know who actually believes that picking Mahomes with the 6th overall pick would be anything short of a failed abortion.

A!

Best QB in the draft, so if people think it's ok to take a guy who only has 13 games starting experience because he checks physical boxes, then why isn't it ok to take Mahomes at 6 who checks every single physical box Trubisky does, but better.  He has played under center some, not much even thou nobody acknowledges this, about 5% of his snaps were under center, and he had a perfect QB rating when it was play action from under center (now 5% doesn't seem like a lot, but when you throw it as many times as he did it's actually more then you think).

Texas Tech implemented some pro concepts this year with Mahomes at times, but nobody talks about this except Klingsbury who nobody wants to acknowledge.

Love how most guys just say this is a horrible pick because the supposed evaluators say he needs to sit, and listen to the same evaluators that say their are equal to more alarming concerns about Trubisky, but it's ok to take him at 6.  I'd argue Mahomes is more prepared to start week 1 then Trubisky by a wide margin for multiple reasons, his creativity, and ability to make plays outside the pocket is how most rookie QB's succeed early in their careers, and designed plays to move the pocket like Wilson, and Prescott, and off read option plays.

Now another reason is Mahomes has a polished professional pedigree, and leadership that nobody in recent years can say they have coming out of college as a QB prospect, growing up inside MLB locker rooms, and a professional environment.

If taking Mahomes is an abomination at 6 in anyone's opinion fine I can respect it, and would probably agree for the most part, but I can't respect it if the same people think it's ok taking Trubisky, Watson, or Kizer at 6, if taking any of those 3 is not an in others opinion abomination then you can't say Mahomes is (don't know your stance on that just making a generalized statement).

I've said it in another thread Mahomes will probably luck out by getting drafted by Arizona, or Houston in the 1st round, and like Prescott last year he will be starting a playoff game as a rookie, and be the toast of the NFL.

Let the slaughter on this opinion commence!

[HighPitch]

I know highlight reels make everyone look like a star, but ive watched highlights reels of mitchell, watson and mohomes and patrick M is BY FAR the most impressive. 

The kid throws a mean long ball. He has a knack. Even in tight coverage, to get that ball just where his wr can snag it. Ive seen him ru  around the pocket eluding sacks and throwing deep balls for huge gains. 

I am on the mahones train fo sho

[FTL Jet Fan]

Taking him at 6 is a huge risk for the FO.  I think if there is  any QB in this draft can be a Dak P type of suprise QB it will be Mahomes. 

[HighPitch]

Yes at 6 no doubt its too much but a trade into the teens id grab him and use my extra 2nd wisely. 

Imagine mahomes, one of the bpa offwnsive line guys and a dalvin cook by the end of rohnd 2. Not bad

[varjet]

If the Jets can trade down and pick Mahomes 10-20, that could work.

To do that, they need to be prepared to pick Trubiaky or even Watson at 6 and perhaps trade him.