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1 hour ago, Matt39 said:

The overall lack of young talent on the roster coupled with starting a 38 year old QB is not ideal. The new safeties have a combined 1 interception between them and have both been burned for multiple touchdowns. Williams has been invisible all year. Hansen and Stewart are behind Kearse and Kerley. Mauldin and Jenkins are stiffs. Burris was just benched for an UDFA. This is year 3 and there are bandaid players all over the roster on short contracts with zero promising players behind them. Not to mention, passing on Watson.

And then there's even the two second rounders who have given completely nothing aside from a backbreaking fumble 2 years ago against Buffalo.

The win variance right now is out of wack. Mccown is a good dude and I like having him here, but what the hell are we actually doing? Poor drafts, no QB, a massive contract to a player who turned into a Haynesworth,  a coach who still cant manage the clock correctly. Pardon the negativity I guess.

You make it sound like these are the Geno Smith days where we were setting records for 3 and outs on offense. If there was a top 10 QB on this team, everything would be different. Unfortunately we don't have that yet. But I guess you can nitpick everything until then. Well except Wilkerson, that whole situation is a just huge WTF right now.

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Last week the "pro tank crew" was in full voice about how awful it was that the team was winning.  And how we were doomed to mediocrity unless we put a full effort into losing games and getting th

Jets are the same mediocre team whether they win that game or not. They are definitely playing hard for the most part, but it just puts in display how much different a game like yesterday would be if

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1 hour ago, Matt39 said:

The overall lack of young talent on the roster coupled with starting a 38 year old QB is not ideal. The new safeties have a combined 1 interception between them and have both been burned for multiple touchdowns. Williams has been invisible all year. Hansen and Stewart are behind Kearse and Kerley. Mauldin and Jenkins are stiffs. Burris was just benched for an UDFA. This is year 3 and there are bandaid players all over the roster on short contracts with zero promising players behind them. Not to mention, passing on Watson.

And then there's even the two second rounders who have given completely nothing aside from a backbreaking fumble 2 years ago against Buffalo.

The win variance right now is out of wack. Mccown is a good dude and I like having him here, but what the hell are we actually doing? Poor drafts, no QB, a massive contract to a player who turned into a Haynesworth,  a coach who still cant manage the clock correctly. Pardon the negativity I guess.

C'mon dude, Roberts was drafted by the Pats in 2015.

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Maccagnan has done a decent job of filling the bottom half of the roster with capable backup types. The top half, however, continues to be amongst the worst in the league. There's literally not a position outside of SS, FS, and TE that can't be upgraded and that is troubling.

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1 hour ago, MDL_JET said:

You make it sound like these are the Geno Smith days where we were setting records for 3 and outs on offense. If there was a top 10 QB on this team, everything would be different. Unfortunately we don't have that yet. But I guess you can nitpick everything until then. Well except Wilkerson, that whole situation is a just huge WTF right now.

Mccown is passable as a professional QB, Geno never was. We wasted 4 years of Geno on the roster for no reason, including two with Bowles/Maccagnan. We're currently doing the same with Hackenberg(who sould have been probably released last year) Mccown providing a baseline level of production doesnt negate the fact that the roster is a mess. 

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3 hours ago, gEYno said:

People are dumb.  This is news?

Mike Maccagnan is a nice man. He tries his best. He likes coffee just like me. He has acquired players and those players have names and I know those names. You can't ask for more than that. We were going places until the refs stole that game. That gives us plenty to talk about until next year which will be our year because it always is.

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9 hours ago, Warfish said:

Culture of Losing (tm) seems to be a popular idea amongst some.

Losing begets losing and continued decline.  Competitiveness begets improvement.

People want an easy button.  There is no easy button in the NFL. 

Sam Darnold will not turn this team into a "20 year" 12 win a year team like some seem to think.  If only it were that easy.

Fans should reject the culture of losing IMO. 

It IS better to be mediocre (i.e. 8-8) and try to build on that than perennially be 2-12 and praying THIS year the draft will save us/be the miracle/etc.

 

Wait a minute...

No one is saying Darnold needs to come in here and win 12 off the bat.  No one's asking for the 'easy' button.  We want a damn QB with potential and promise.

And when was the last time the Jets were 2-14?  Mediocre, we've got that in spades...but 2-14?

I understand your point, but this was a bit over the top.

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7 hours ago, redlichtie said:

Don’t get me wrong, finding a QB who you can commit to long-term is absolutely desirable in the modern NFL , I’m with you there....my argument is you are every bit as likely to find that guy outside the top ten picks in the draft. Tanking is non-sensical on that basis, you need talent across the board and as Warfish points out in another post we are as likely to build long-term sustainable success(and we both want that)by bringing a young QB into a strong, disciplined, winning environment than ripping the thing down and hoping that 1 guy can turn a sh*t-show around on his own. We need an elite pass-rusher, an elite OT, an elite RB too, I’d rather we pick a great player high than reach for a mediocre QB just because it’s a passer(your mentioning of D’Brick is prescient because that year an awful lot of momentum was behind us picking Cutler, in my opinion Brick proved himself way more worthy of that pick than Cutler).

There’s no question we've failed to pick the right QB when the time has come but then we are not alone, most of the league has got a story to tell of QB failure (and I’d include those top 5 pick QB’s with the best part of 10 years in the league who’ve failed to win the big one...Ryan, Stafford, Bradford, Luck etc) Hell Brady and Wilson were 6th and 4th round picks!...not only did every team in the league pass on them but so did the Patriots and Seahawks, the Pats had no clue Brady was turning into Brady otherwise they wouldn't have passed over him 5 times. Just look at Washington, mortgaged their franchise to RG3 but it turns out the guy they drafted as an almost afterthought in Rd 4 that year was in fact the actual ‘franchise’ leader....is RG3 even in the league?

Picking high is fine if you draft the right player and the position you need filling has a difference making talent worthy of such a high pick but it’s not the be all and end all, you need to build your roster AND a winning culture through more than simply the QB position

just my opinion

By the way, the draft next April is shaping up to have no slam dunk obvious ‘franchise’ QB a la Ryan or Luck but instead there could be a 1983 style first round with as many as 5 or 6 QB’S getting first round consideration, that is partly a symptom of the premium that is now put on the position around the league and the desperation of teams to get ‘their guy’ but it might  actually be the Jets decent luck for a change to not be god awful in a year where a number of Derek Carr like prospects might be available to a team picking out with the top 5 picks in April

all is not lost

I'm just tired of the folks on the board that seem to offer no other choices for this season other than 'playing McCown' or 'tanking'.  I mean, that for those of us that want to see a QB other than McCown play, that we are in the necessarily in the 'tank' crowd.

I don't want to see the NYJ tank anything, but just think that playing McCown is nonsensical in every way.

If the NYJ were 3-3 with Petty or Hack playing now, i'd be ecstatic.  McCown?  Not so much.  I know he's a backup QB at this point..is it what he is, and I appreciate that.  All I hear is that Petty will 'probably' amount to no more than a 'backup' QB in the league...well, I can accept that too...but I want to know that, not presume it.  Same with Hack.

Starting McCown is accepting mediocrity while leaving questions unanswered..and for a team destined to be no better than 6-10 this season IMO is short-sighted and detrimental as it worsens your draft position going forward.

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10 hours ago, greenwave81 said:

Wait a minute...

No one is saying Darnold needs to come in here and win 12 off the bat.  No one's asking for the 'easy' button.  We want a damn QB with potential and promise.

And when was the last time the Jets were 2-14?  Mediocre, we've got that in spades...but 2-14?

I understand your point, but this was a bit over the top.

No we should be happy with 6-10, team first philosophy and Brian Hoyer next season dangnabit

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Listen, I was pumped as the next fella after that Browns win. Yeah, they got outgained by a 2-1 margin, but it showed that this team is learning to win. And that's what counts. Learning to win. You can't teach putting up your hands when the other team tries a field goal. You can't teach watching it sail wide left. You can't teach blocking for YOUR kicker and watching a 57 yarder sail through the uprights.  How do you teach being in the area when the other teams rookie QB decides to give you the ball at the goalline twice? Or how to persevere despite your number one pick getting burned for a td by a fellow rookie or your entire defense not tackling Duke Johnson for 41 yards of fun? You don't teach these things, the team teaches itself. They learn to win and these lessons will be gold. They tell you exactly what kind of team you have. They tell you the pieces are IN PLACE. hashtag winningfootballinwithalosingrecord

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the tank was never a good idea. Sam Darnold in NY was always wishful thinking. He's not Lebron James and he never was. This is way bigger than 1 player or 1 draft pick. 

Every win creates a winning culture. Every loss creates a losing culture.

and by the way The Jets don't need to pick 1 to take a QB. they could have had Watson at 6 or Mahomes, either of which would give hope for the future.  They could have had Jimmy G instead they drafted Jace Amaro. They just need to grow balls and make the right pick. And not be scared to cut bait on the Hacks and Genos of the world when everyone else knows they stink. 

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Just now, bitonti said:

the tank was never a good idea. Sam Darnold in NY was always wishful thinking. He's not Lebron James and he never was. This is way bigger than 1 player or 1 draft pick. 

Every win creates a winning culture. Every loss creates a losing culture.

and by the way The Jets don't need to pick 1 to take a QB. they could have had Watson at 6 or Mahomes, either of which would give hope for the future. They just need to grow balls and make the pick. 

I'm sorry, Matt, but you're going to have to find me a team that turned around because of a "winning culture".

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12 hours ago, greenwave81 said:

I'm just tired of the folks on the board that seem to offer no other choices for this season other than 'playing McCown' or 'tanking'.  I mean, that for those of us that want to see a QB other than McCown play, that we are in the necessarily in the 'tank' crowd.

I don't want to see the NYJ tank anything, but just think that playing McCown is nonsensical in every way.

If the NYJ were 3-3 with Petty or Hack playing now, i'd be ecstatic.  McCown?  Not so much.  I know he's a backup QB at this point..is it what he is, and I appreciate that.  All I hear is that Petty will 'probably' amount to no more than a 'backup' QB in the league...well, I can accept that too...but I want to know that, not presume it.  Same with Hack.

Starting McCown is accepting mediocrity while leaving questions unanswered..and for a team destined to be no better than 6-10 this season IMO is short-sighted and detrimental as it worsens your draft position going forward.

3

This is the boat I'm in. 100%. I'd much rather watch the young QBs make bad decisions and/or bad throws than McCown. And I'm not convinced that one or both couldn't be better than McCown, either. 

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24 minutes ago, Gastineau Lives said:

I'm sorry, Matt, but you're going to have to find me a team that turned around because of a "winning culture".

Yeah ill do that if you look up all the USC QBs and how their careers went 

think about the entitled douche nozzles who get those QB scholarships to USC 

it's basically a four year license to slay puss and enjoy the sunshine.  

Sam Darnold is not equipped for life as QB of the NYJ, just like every other USC QB in history, before or since. 

best cause they stay out west and become the next Carson Palmer. worst case we have a moment called the buttfumble that is now used as a custom emoji next to like and haha 

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6 minutes ago, slats said:

This is the boat I'm in. 100%. I'd much rather watch the young QBs make bad decisions and/or bad throws than McCown. And I'm not convinced that one or both couldn't be better than McCown, either. 

it's not fair to the other 52 players to have a guy who couldn't even beat McCown be gifted the starting job. 

Josh McCown is a low bar. If Hack can't bellyflop his way over it he doesn't deserve to play. 

Petty actually has talent but he's super fragile.  

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3 minutes ago, bitonti said:

it's not fair to the other 52 players to have a guy who couldn't even beat McCown be gifted the starting job. 

Josh McCown is a low bar. If Hack can't bellyflop his way over it he doesn't deserve to play. 

Petty actually has talent but he's super fragile.  

Life isn't fair. 

And I'm not convinced that McCown outplayed anyone. I lean more towards Bowles just wants a veteran at QB. In a season where I never had playoff hopes, I'd much rather be doing some work towards next year. Some players perform better live than in practice, and vice versa. Many players get better when they play in real games. Trotting out the 38-year-old does little to nothing for this team now or in the future. 

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So who else is excited for the 12mill extension for 39 year old Mccown and the 9th pick in the draft? Cant wait for that awesome defensive player that drops to us will really make this team a perennial super bowl contender! YAY

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13 minutes ago, slats said:

Life isn't fair. 

And I'm not convinced that McCown outplayed anyone. I lean more towards Bowles just wants a veteran at QB. In a season where I never had playoff hopes, I'd much rather be doing some work towards next year. Some players perform better live than in practice, and vice versa. Many players get better when they play in real games. Trotting out the 38-year-old does little to nothing for this team now or in the future. 

i have a few thoughts on the offense.  the offense looks better than i've seen it in a decade, even better than when fitz had his one magical season.  there is an offensive coordinator who runs a specific offense, they found wrs, RBs and TEs who can function in this offense, and a qb who can execute a game plan.  the line also looks better than last year, at least in pass protection, but maybe that's partially b/c mccown tries to get rid of the ball quickly.  my question is, would petty be at least as effective in this offense, and hopefully, we'll find out soon.  i figured that by now, mccown would have missed at least part of a game and petty would have seen action.  

as far as the future, hack is not part of it, and maybe petty is, maybe not.  i can see mccown starting 12 games, the jets finishing 6-10, and drafting someone like mason rudolph and mccown becomes a coach, hack gets cut in camp and petty becomes the perennial backup.  if this happens, i'm ok with the plan.  in all the post-vinny years, the jets haven't implemented an offensive system with competent coaches, and while bowles doesn't seem like the guy you want grooming a qb, at least there is an OC and qb coach who seem to know what they're doing.  if the most frustrating thing about this year is that we don't see that much of petty, they don't get a top 3 pick (the browns and 49ers were always going to be worse than the jets, let's be fair), and they take a qb anyway and move on with him next year, then i can live with this.    

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11 minutes ago, slats said:

Life isn't fair. 

And I'm not convinced that McCown outplayed anyone. I lean more towards Bowles just wants a veteran at QB. In a season where I never had playoff hopes, I'd much rather be doing some work towards next year. Some players perform better live than in practice, and vice versa. Many players get better when they play in real games. Trotting out the 38-year-old does little to nothing for this team now or in the future. 

Putting a train wreck at quarterback simply because he is significantly younger than McCown does nothing for the future of this team either. Petty isn't playing because people who are trying to keep their jobs think he's more useful to that end as a mystery box than as a football player.

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26 minutes ago, Augustiniak said:

i have a few thoughts on the offense.  the offense looks better than i've seen it in a decade, even better than when fitz had his one magical season.  there is an offensive coordinator who runs a specific offense, they found wrs, RBs and TEs who can function in this offense, and a qb who can execute a game plan.  the line also looks better than last year, at least in pass protection, but maybe that's partially b/c mccown tries to get rid of the ball quickly.  my question is, would petty be at least as effective in this offense, and hopefully, we'll find out soon.  i figured that by now, mccown would have missed at least part of a game and petty would have seen action.  

as far as the future, hack is not part of it, and maybe petty is, maybe not.  i can see mccown starting 12 games, the jets finishing 6-10, and drafting someone like mason rudolph and mccown becomes a coach, hack gets cut in camp and petty becomes the perennial backup.  if this happens, i'm ok with the plan.  in all the post-vinny years, the jets haven't implemented an offensive system with competent coaches, and while bowles doesn't seem like the guy you want grooming a qb, at least there is an OC and qb coach who seem to know what they're doing.  if the most frustrating thing about this year is that we don't see that much of petty, they don't get a top 3 pick (the browns and 49ers were always going to be worse than the jets, let's be fair), and they take a qb anyway and move on with him next year, then i can live with this.    

This is where the owner needs to step in. McCown did a great job showing us the offense can move the ball, players are learning the system and making plays, the line is playing pretty well, run game eh but for the most part overall, not bad.

Now it's time to move on and see what we have with the young QBs. You know the offense can function with an average QB like McCown, so will it elevate or sink when Petty comes in. But of course Bowles will ride with the vet until about 4 weeks left I'm sure, giving neither of them experience. Bowles would even look better if he made the switch and things got better. ugh.

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There really is no winning this aurgument from either side here.

Yes, you don't want to encourage  a culture of loosing agreed but can we agree  that for most of us who can't possibly remember Super Bowl 111 the Jets have fought the good fight and lost for almost 50 years?  You tell me that nearly half of the league's teams have not won a super Bowl whilt the Jets have, in fact, won one. Is that a consolation to Jets fans ? Call me greedy but I think not.  

"You play to win the game!" ??? I totally get wanting to win every game and that luck plays a bigger park in any of this (ask every qb who has been injured in 2017) than we care to admit. 

However what I see is that the longer terms goals of Jets fans are in direct odds with the short term interests of Bowles and McCagnan.  Mccagnan's obvious talent/ability to trade or unearth important role players prevents this team from being a two win team. Bowles and Mccagnan need to win as many games , be it three games or eight games in order to ensure their job prospects down the road. Even if their jobs are quaisi promised for another year, so was Eric Mangini's. Winning this season has little to do with a Super Bowl it is everything to do with future employment prospects. Of course this is not just the Jets coach and management, it is 95% of NFL coaches and managers whose name is not Belichick.

Where does that leave us fans ? We can smile at all the talking heads who guessed we might not win one game this year. But don't you want to look at every possible approach to a Super Bowl win, even if

1. No fresh approach is guaranteed a super bowl win and

2.  Watching the Jets loose football games with a long term strategy that is not guaranteed to change the forture of the franchise... is painful ?

 

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4 minutes ago, MDL_JET said:

This is where the owner needs to step in. McCown did a great job showing us the offense can move the ball, players are learning the system and making plays, the line is playing pretty well, run game eh but for the most part overall, not bad.

Now it's time to move on and see what we have with the young QBs. You know the offense can function with an average QB like McCown, so will it elevate or sink when Petty comes in. But of course Bowles will ride with the vet until about 4 weeks left I'm sure, giving neither of them experience. Bowles would even look better if he made the switch and things got better. ugh.

yes, right now it's a balance b/c the offense looks surprisingly crisp compared to expectations, there are wrs/rbs/tes who can catch and run (the media would have us believe there weren't any), and they're 3-3 and truthfully, not much worse in collective talent than enough other teams beyond qb.  so the question is, can petty run this offense, can he put up more points than mccown (in fairness to mccown, we know he got screwed and should have had that 3rd td)?  if petty steps in as the starter in a few weeks and looks even better than mccown, then we're onto something here.  i think the jets are taking a qb in the first round this year unless they somehow make the playoffs, so i'm still rooting for wins.  this season has started out surprisingly enjoyable and the only thing that would make it better is to see petty go in there and start throwing darts to these open wrs and tes.

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34 minutes ago, Augustiniak said:

i have a few thoughts on the offense.  the offense looks better than i've seen it in a decade, even better than when fitz had his one magical season.  there is an offensive coordinator who runs a specific offense, they found wrs, RBs and TEs who can function in this offense, and a qb who can execute a game plan.  

This is crazy, and what's even crazier is that it's the third or fourth post of this kind I've seen this week. The offense is terrible. 

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Just now, dbatesman said:

This is crazy, and what's even crazier is that it's the third or fourth post of this kind I've seen this week. The offense is terrible. 

That said, I do enjoy the fact that a fanbase that's called for every OC since time immemorial to be burned at the stake is suddenly turning into the Cult of Morton.

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Just now, dbatesman said:

That said, I do enjoy the fact that a fanbase that's called for every OC since time immemorial to be burned at the stake is suddenly turning into the Cult of Morton.

Oh he's still getting the torch for not turning Hackenberg and Petty into coachmen. Just not until we, you know, see what we got.

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15 hours ago, Miss Lonelyhearts said:

Mike Maccagnan is a nice man. He tries his best. He likes coffee just like me. He has acquired players and those players have names and I know those names. You can't ask for more than that. We were going places until the refs stole that game. That gives us plenty to talk about until next year which will be our year because it always is.

Jets football is where you expect folks to suddenly start accepting truth they don't like?

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2 minutes ago, dbatesman said:

This is crazy, and what's even crazier is that it's the third or fourth post of this kind I've seen this week. The offense is terrible. 

it's not terrible.  they have a 40% conversion rate on 3rd down, 13th best.  mccown has a 70% completion rate, compare that to under 60% for geno/sanchez.  they're 11th in time of possession.  the qb is not a turnover machine.  when you consider what was expected, it's not bad.  

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1 hour ago, bitonti said:

the tank was never a good idea. Sam Darnold in NY was always wishful thinking. He's not Lebron James and he never was. This is way bigger than 1 player or 1 draft pick. 

Every win creates a winning culture. Every loss creates a losing culture.

and by the way The Jets don't need to pick 1 to take a QB. they could have had Watson at 6 or Mahomes, either of which would give hope for the future.  They could have had Jimmy G instead they drafted Jace Amaro. They just need to grow balls and make the right pick. And not be scared to cut bait on the Hacks and Genos of the world when everyone else knows they stink. 

Point of inquiry: What happened to the winning culture created in 2015, in 2016?

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3 minutes ago, Augustiniak said:

it's not terrible.  they have a 40% conversion rate on 3rd down, 13th best.  mccown has a 70% completion rate, compare that to under 60% for geno/sanchez.  they're 11th in time of possession.  the qb is not a turnover machine.  when you consider what was expected, it's not bad.  

11th in time of possession

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